FanDuel - WFBC

September 19, 2005

Laveranues Coles Shares a Secret: The New York Jets wide receiver recently admitted something he's been hiding for years: He was molested from age 10 to 13 by his stepfather. "It just kind of destroyed my relationships, with allowing new people into my life," he said. "As a man, when you're violated in that way, you don't know how other people are going to take it, how other people are going to view you."

posted by rcade to football at 12:20 PM - 101 comments

So that was the reason he didn't like Dan Snyder.

posted by kingosiris at 01:31 PM on September 19

Whats the big deal? He still is a great WR, and will be for years to come. I dont see him any differently now than I did before. God bless him, and let him have a great career- except when he plays against the G- Men.

posted by redsoxrgay at 01:45 PM on September 19

Well - it's a pretty brave thing to admit; especially in the macho, homophobe NFL. I think it takes guts, and I applaud him for it. And yes he certainly is a good'great WR. More power to him.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:55 PM on September 19

Whats the big deal? Someone with a homophobic nick actually needs to ask this?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:01 PM on September 19

The big deal, redsoxrgay, is demonstrated by your choice of username, which presumes that calling someone gay is an insult. Coles feared he would be perceived as gay, which his abuser was sick enough to play up with his friends. He also feared being considered less of a man if he told anyone what had happened. That's why it's so remarkable that he's choosing to go public with this in the prime of his career. It's a heroic act. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of male abuse victims will find out about Coles' admission and have one less reason to believe they should be ashamed.

posted by rcade at 02:04 PM on September 19

Being open about this should make dealing with the trauma easier. Good for him for coming forward. There are other kids who could use the example he sets here. I hope coming clean about this only helps him to be stronger as a person. If he becomes a better player with some of the weight of this off, then hey, more to the good. On preview: everything rcade just said.

posted by chicobangs at 02:07 PM on September 19

It is a brave thing to admit. Its a tough thing to happen to you when your tying to figure out who you are. Your life is a living hell. I applaud his honesty. It really has nothing to do homephobes- Molestation is differant than being gay-. Sexual abuse is a very bad thing. I hope that his coming out with this info may help somebody. My only question about this, was the timing-do you really want to be discussing something like this in the middle of a season. I wish him well and my prayers go out to the many others like him........

posted by daddisamm at 02:09 PM on September 19

I think that Coles has done an important thing in his life. This has nothing to do with football and should not even be the subject of discussion with his career. He is very strong just for being able to admit this. Also, I agree with the other two redsoxrgay. Maybe you should rethink your choice of username before bringing God into this.

posted by mcstan13 at 02:50 PM on September 19

Hey guys- First of all im not gay, and dont think im prejudece against gays. Its only a SN for a sports siite, that has no major impact on anybody lifes. What Coles did can do wonders for people with the same problems, and for people ashamed of being molested. I personally know many people who qualify under each catergory, and have no probalems with them, and they are like normal people. Anyway, my screename has no real menaing, its easy to remember though, and makes for fun arguements on how good/bad they are. I think Boston is a good team, and no offence to them. I am not- and never will be prejudice against anyone. Sorry if this caused some confusion among yo uguys. Anyway- god bless Coles, and everybody have a good day.

posted by redsoxrgay at 04:32 PM on September 19

P.S When I said "Whats the big deal", I was only trying to say that it isnt a big issue (being molested), and that people should be OK with it, regardless of who it is. Thanks, Kendall

posted by redsoxrgay at 04:34 PM on September 19

so he went back to ny to hand out in the village?

posted by flaunted at 04:45 PM on September 19

Anyway, my screename has no real menaing, So, if you were to change it to "redsoxr", it would have the exact same meaning? Or put it another way: if you were to replace the word "gay" in your nick with another word or phrase that conveyed the exact same shades of meaning, what would that word or phrase be?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:37 PM on September 19

Molestation has nothing to do w/ gay,strait or other preference, it is about violation. When someone is raped, regardless of gender, they are wounded at a very deep level that often takes many years to heal. I am an ordained minister and I was molested by one of my brothers when I was 6or 7 yers old. Although I have no hard feelings concerning him, it did have a negative effect on my self esteme that I have only recently came to confront so that the healing might begin. by the way I am now 42 years old. I if you have ever been raped my advice is to move on and dont let someone elses wrong doing control your life. If you have never been a victim, your oppinion means very little.

posted by T at 09:35 AM on September 20

coles is one of the best wr there is right now and i give him alot of respect to that n=man to admitt something like that and the whole world to know thats brave. hes going to go far this season.

posted by steelers1faninbp at 09:40 AM on September 20

Ok, "n=man" has me stumped. Care to share?

posted by yerfatma at 10:00 AM on September 20

Good for him. I hope it helps him heal. It really is brave for him to talk about it, given the hyper-masculine context in which he works. It's also a reminder to those who think of molesters as the creepy guys lurking in playgrounds that molesters are usually family members or someone the child knows. Thanks for sharing your story, T, and good luck to you. I have a similar story but many, many hard feelings.

posted by pooch at 10:08 AM on September 20

they are like normal people redsoxrgay, your Freudian slip is showing, you bigot. What other groups of people aren't normal, but only "like normal"? You're all over the place, kid. Yerfatma, I think the "=" may have been a missed [backspace] key.

posted by Hugh Janus at 10:44 AM on September 20

I'm glad to see at least one success story. Coles is a great wr. I was molested by an uncle and an older cousin from the age of 9 until I was almost sixteen...I was paroled 2 months ago for "dealing" with them both.

posted by coachrh at 11:15 AM on September 20

To think that anyone would think of him as less of a man is ridiculous. If anything he is is more of a man to stand up and use his celebrity to help address the issue. He was incredibly courageous to come forward with something so personal.

posted by tina at 12:56 PM on September 20

Any chance I can switch my handle temporarily to KendallRGay? Not to be bigoted or prejudiced or anything ... just because it's easy to remember and will get people talking.

posted by wfrazerjr at 01:02 PM on September 20

It seams to me that Coles admission has had a positive effect, here anyway. A few members have shared thier simular story, maybe helping them overcome. Maybe we read too much into other's screen name? I guess in these days of PC the Red sox hater should rethink his?

posted by directpressure at 01:59 PM on September 20

Maybe we read too much into other's screen name? I guess in these days of PC the Red sox hater should rethink his? Okay, since it don't mean nothing, then you answer my question. If you were to replace the word "gay" in the nick "redsoxrgay" with another word or phrase that conveyed the same meaning, what would it be? Something derogatory, right? After all, you state that "redsoxrgay" must be a "Red Sox hater". So the word "gay" is being used as a derogatory term, right? If I'm "reading too much" into it, go right ahead, stop me and tell me just what "gay" is supposed to mean in that nick, and how calling the Red Sox "gay" makes one a "hater" and yet people are "reading too much" into the nick when they say it's a derogatory terrm. It beats the hell out of me how people exult in their freedom to make bigoted remarks, and yet display the thinnest of skins whenever someone calls 'em a bigot. Something about glass houses and stones comes to mind.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:41 PM on September 20

Are you people saying that "redsoxrgay" is something derogatory? You mean it's not referring to a group of happy, joyous baseball players? Who'da thunk it?

posted by slew40484 at 02:57 PM on September 20

I would just like to know how gay got brought into this anyway. The man was violated. I would have to agree with T, if it has never happened to you, your opinion doesn't mater much. Especially if the first thing you think of when the victim comes forward is gay.

posted by jrodtn29 at 03:46 PM on September 20

Whast wrong with you guys? Because I ahve a weird screename- one that you guy dont believe in- it dosent mean i have anything against gay, molested, etc. It was just a screename. Whay are you guys still angry?

posted by redsoxrgay at 03:59 PM on September 20

The problem is that homosexual terms, slang etc are being used as a part of normal language. In some circles, its cool to call b people "gay" or "queer" etc. This is what offends me-This free use of this slang in our language-To me its just as bad as using the N word around african americans. Redsox guy, you may not think using 'gay' in your user name isnt offencive--I understand that. but you should be a little more understanding to those of us who find it as such. Quite frankly any sexual 'namecalling" tends to a little overboard in the offensive markit. The fact is that we got away from the real subject of this thread. Sexual abuse is a bad thing. I would call it a curse on our society-but I dont want to ge accused of sounding "holier than thou" I applaud Coles for coming forward. Hopefully it will help the folks that struggle with this.

posted by daddisamm at 04:25 PM on September 20

This is where I pipe in and make it all about the Red Sox not being gay, eh? seriously though, good for Coles in coming forward. Heroic and brave.

posted by jerseygirl at 04:51 PM on September 20

I would call it a curse on our society-but I dont want to ge accused of sounding "holier than thou" You opened the can, so I'm going fishing: what would our society be cursed for?

posted by yerfatma at 05:15 PM on September 20

Well, sexual abuse a curse, that's for sure...although I'd say it's a curse on the victims rather than on society, which continues to do a pretty good job of ignoring it whenever it's convenient to do so. I think the thing that I'd applaud Coles for is standing up and saying that bad stuff can happen to you, though no fault of your own, and mess you up on a permanent basis. All the "strength" and "willpower" in the world doesn't wish away damage, whether physical or mental -- the strength and willpower have to do with how you live with it. If someone book a sledgehammer and broke your leg in seventeen places when you were six years old, you'd probably be living with a limp for the rest of your life, and this is no different. People who've never been hurt to this degree have a hard time understanding that some kinds of damage just don't heal as good as new -- you just have to live with what you've got, hope you're blessed with understanding people in your life, and resolve to climb your mountains with the equipment you've got. Or not.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:37 PM on September 20

Well put, brown bat. And bless you, Coles!

posted by kcfan4life at 06:41 PM on September 20

I would call it a curse on our society-but I dont want to ge accused of sounding "holier than thou" You opened the can, so I'm going fishing: what would our society be cursed for? I use 'curse' in more of a descritpive term here. Sexual abuse, molestation, violence inside the home are the results of years of being "overlooked" by society. Our Society has become one of "anyting goes sexually.." We are now starting to realize how long the problem has been around. There are people who cant handle themselves and their 'urges'. They need to be indentified and helped. People need to wake up and realize that we need to change a few things. Thats all I am going to say about this. I have some opinions on what should be done, but thats for another time and a different discussion group. Such discussions, in the past have only produced 'name calling and people on all sides of the issue frustrated and pulling out their hair. Trust me, I dont have that much left. ;-) Again my heartfelt prayer goo out to Coles and all who have been through what he has. Hopefully it will make him a stronger person,. Nice comments LBB...........

posted by daddisamm at 10:02 PM on September 20

What kills me is that in a country of free opinion, anyone who disagrees with homosexuality is labeled a homophobe. Its as if you have to accept it or your wrong or a bigot. how about just not agreeing with something? Or does that upset the too sensitive types? Get off of your pink high pedestals already, and understand that you dont have to be a homophobe (if there is such a thing- just a defense used by homosexuals to try to justify an abnormal lifestyle) to disagree with that lifestyle. Being gay does not make being gay acceptable.

posted by primejoe21 at 10:13 PM on September 20

I use 'curse' in more of a descritpive term here. Fair enough. It sounded to me like you had a cause and effect in mind, but I guess not. Get off of your pink high pedestals already, and understand that you dont have to be a homophobe (if there is such a thing- just a defense used by homosexuals to try to justify an abnormal lifestyle) to disagree with that lifestyle. Being gay does not make being gay acceptable. Come on. Seriously? Well, ok then: a.) What makes heterosexuality non-abnormal? b.) What I get from your message today is, "You don't have to be a homophobe. But it helps." Maybe phrases like "pink pedestals", though incredibly clever, would be best left out of your arguments.

posted by yerfatma at 06:09 AM on September 21

What kills me is that in a country of free opinion, anyone who disagrees with homosexuality is labeled a homophobe. What kills me is people like you who love to get up on their blazingly-red freedom-of-speech-and-opinion pedestals, and then turn around and deny freedom of speech and opinion to others. You want to maintain your right to make bigoted statements and have bigoted opinions, but no one else is allowed to hold or express the opinion that you're a bigot. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, ya know?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:23 AM on September 21

Ah yes, but what about sauce for the goose-stepper? Heinz 57, no doubt.

posted by yerfatma at 07:26 AM on September 21

Primejoe - you don't get the option to 'disagree' with homosexuality - it's not a damn opinion or answer to a question ("Geez, I like men." "No, I disagree, you like men"). You don't have to like their lifestyle, which you likely have no clue about, since I take it you're not gay, but it's not an issue of free speech, it has nothign to do with it. You're the one attempting to defend denying said speech. Go ahead, be a clueless moron. See, you're entitled. You can't disagree with homosexuality anymore than you can disagree with the handicapped and their lifestyle.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:00 AM on September 21

Some people think homosexuality is a choice and that people choose that lifestyle. It appears to me that primejoe might be one of those people. This is usually the root of all disagreements on homosexuality. Those who think it is a choice and those who do not. So, telling someone who is of the choice-view that they are bigoted or cannot disagree with the lifestyle, never works. The way to change such views is usually to get them to understand that it is not a choice. Just a suggestion . . . Further, the reason why homosexuality came up in the first place is because no matter how rational it is, victims of sexual assault like Coles have been labeled homosexuals. It is ignorant, but it is reality. So, Coles has to deal with the very real possibility that drunk fans will use this to heckle.

posted by bperk at 08:27 AM on September 21

Who cares if it's a choice or not? It doesn't affect me, ergo I don't need to have an opinion on it. So much of male homophobia seems egotistical: "He likes men and look at the ass on me. What chance do I stand?" Or it's fear of the unknown, i.e., you won't be able to resist the guys who can't resist that ass of yours.

posted by yerfatma at 08:36 AM on September 21

.... Are, uh, you hitting on me? I mean, ya know, I'm okay with it - but, uh, you know, uh... What's your number?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:01 AM on September 21

Who cares if it's a choice or not? It doesn't affect me, ergo I don't need to have an opinion on it. That's very libertarian of you. Lots of reasonable people care about things that do not directly affect them, but that affect society as a whole. So much of male homophobia seems egotistical: "He likes men and look at the ass on me. What chance do I stand?" Even if you think homophobia stems from the belief that homosexuals have some heightened sense of attraction to the same sex and are attracted to every member of the same sex, then it is still better to address that issue on its merits. "You are a moron and/or bigot" will never make anyone reassess their views on homosexuality.

posted by bperk at 10:27 AM on September 21

Oh boy, here we go. Is being gay normal? Honestly, that shouldnt even be considered a rational question. As for the name caller, oh well, ignorance has freedom of speech too. How about this: Would anyone want their children to be gay? Im not asking if they would support their decision or not, a good parent would, but what parent ever exclaimed "I hope my child grows up to be a homosexual!"? Yes, I am straight. No, Im not a homophobe, as I have absolutely no fear of homosexuality whatsoever. I do believe that nature created a man to fit physically and psychologically with a woman, thereby ensuring reproduction of the species. To create a living animal whose sole purpose was to end the cycle of reproduction seems rather pointless. Maybe the dinosaurs were all gay? hmmmmm....... :)

posted by primejoe21 at 11:15 AM on September 21

As for Coles, a great NFL player and survivor of a tragic event, he should be merited on the bravery of stepping forward to proclaim how he overcame what he did. Any person, fan of the team he is playing against or not, who would use this as a weapon against him is not a respectable person at all. Coles, go ahead and score 50 touchdowns this year, I have you in my fantasy league!

posted by primejoe21 at 11:28 AM on September 21

Though it may be better to address issues on their merits, bigots are jackasses and should be spoken to as such. I know something: nothing I say will make anyone reassess their views on anything. That's up to them. And, since homophobia thrives on insults and shame, calling redsoxrgay a bigot, or an jackass, is turnabout, and thus fair play.

posted by Hugh Janus at 11:32 AM on September 21

Lots of reasonable people care about things that do not directly affect them, but that affect society as a whole. Yuh-huh. Do private sexual choices affect society? If so, how?

posted by yerfatma at 11:45 AM on September 21

Primejoe - it's patently clear that you believe homosexuality to be wrong. Biologically and socially wrong. It is not a rational basis on which to belabour an arguement - since even a modicum of research will reveal to you the many nuances of sexuality that exist throughout nature - among the higher species, there are numerous instances of homosexual behaviour. Hell, if you hang around at the monkey cage at zoo for an hour and half you'd be so enlightened. Would you want your children to be gay, you ask? I'd want my children to be happy and to be able to live the way in which they want and are intended - and not have to live repressing themselves for the sake of the backwards attitudes of their narrow-minded and ill-informed parents. No one who is legitimately gay has any choice in the matter.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:31 PM on September 21

well said

posted by garfield at 01:27 PM on September 21

Would anyone want their children to be gay? Would I want the sexual orientation of my child to be met with a lifetime of bigotry from people who should mind their own business? Of course not. But if more of us speak up for the tolerant and humanistic notion that homosexuality is normal, perhaps in 20 years the gays-are-sick crowd will be as small as the bigoted holdouts who are even today offended by interracial relationships.

posted by rcade at 01:33 PM on September 21

Yuh-huh. Do private sexual choices affect society? If so, how? I don't believe that homosexuality is solely a private sexual choice. These private sexual choices drive many things that happen in our society, included among them having children and getting married. It defines the intimate relationships that a segment of our population has. It poses questions for our society about how we view property rights, child-rearing, and marriage among other things. If private sexual choices didn't affect society, then there would be no need for gay marriage (since marriage is a societal construct). The decision of who can make decisions for whom, who can raise children with whom, who can live with whom are all societal concerns and often decided by laws in this country. Society sets the guidelines for these things -- what is and what is not acceptable/fair/legal. If the happiness and well-being of a segment of our population is harmed by such guidelines, then our society isn't working for all. When any segment of our population tries to change such guidelines, society is affected by either preventing such changes or accomodating such changes.

posted by bperk at 02:17 PM on September 21

I am straight. Im not a homophobe I have absolutely no fear of homosexuality whatsoever. Methinks thou doest protest too much.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 02:34 PM on September 21

The happiness and well-being of a segment of our population was harmed by school integration. Society wasn't working for all. Society accommodated changes to those guidelines. Now black kids can get the same education as white kids. I agree with you, bperk, the happiness and well-being of a segment of our population is harmed by the ban on gay marriages and consequently our society isn't working for all. I join with you in looking forward to a day when society accommodates a change in this guideline.

posted by Hugh Janus at 02:47 PM on September 21

"You are a moron and/or bigot" will never make anyone reassess their views on homosexuality. So what? Do you really think that people who are the targets of societally-approved bigotry are ever, by any means, going to get a significant percentage of society to like them? Save that shit for the diversity teas. I suspect most gay people don't give a rat's ass if straight people like them or not, and would be plenty happy if straight people would just mind their own god damned business. I know I'm not going to change a bigot's mind by calling him/her a bigot, but I am going to disabuse him/her of the notion that his/her bigotry will be greeted with a respectful, "Oh, well, you have the right to your own opinion, as don't we all, tra la la, we are the world," instead of the contempt that it deserves. Commenting on someone's private sexual practices is like commenting on someone's choice of dental floss: no skin off your ass, none of your fucking business, and you look like a boob and a rube if you sound off about it. Oh, by the way, regarding the societal implications of this and that -- I live in Massachusetts, and apart from a few mole depradations on my side lawn, the earth hasn't shown any signs of yawning open yet. And I really would not push that "societal implications" yap, or you'll open up the whole civil-marriage can o worms, and trust me, you do not want to go there.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:48 PM on September 21

Hey Guys Im Back- How the hell did we land on this subject? Being gay, and being molested are not even remotely the same. They are completely different. Being gay, lesbian, etc is up to that individual. Being molested isnt a choice. Who wakes up in the morning and says "I can't wait to be molested today!" Nobody- hopefully. Anyways, everyone has their own opinions. Maybe gays dont like straight people. Who knows how people really feel? I dont- and I dont think anybody here does. All I know is that everyone has their own views and opinions. And that will hopefully never change- its the 1st Amendment in our Constitution. But even though im fine with gays, and have gay friends, I can still voice my opinion whether you guys like or not. Theres laws that protect that. Point is, we can argue forever and never get anywhere. Its totaly up to the individual to believe in what they want to. That will never, ever change. Thanks-

posted by redsoxrgay at 03:35 PM on September 21

It's good to know you're fine with the Red Sox, and have Red Sox friends, redsoxrgay. Glad we got that straightened out.

posted by Hugh Janus at 03:51 PM on September 21

if straight people would just mind their own god damned business. Only if it were a sexual preference behind closed doors. However, the public teachings of an alternate lifestyle, the gay tv shows, gay rights, etc. all infiltrate the societal structure. Look, you can rant about equality all you want, but why even say the word gay. Why seperate yourselves from the norm. Why cant you just do your thing without public acknowledgement that you, as a man, like to have another man sexually. Noone has to know, but you have to cry out, "Im different, Im gay, accept me, accept me!". Who would give a shit about your kind if it werent for the public displays? Leave it alone, do your business privately, AND DONT FLAUNT IT AROUND FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARENT GAY LIKE YOUR SOMETHING SPECIAL! Do you see people who like to screw animals claiming they should have special rights pertaining to bestiality? What about necrophelia then? Should they be allowed to have certain circumstances pertaining just to their sexual preference? if you truly want left alone, shut up, stay quiet about your sexuality and enjoy it privately. Is that really too much to ask? Isnt sodomy illegal? Isnt it unhealthy too? Im assuming none of you homosexuals are catholic? "Im catholic, except for that part", is that what you would say? Id say, your normal, except for that part! If it were truly a private issue that was offending gays, leave it private, noone has to know your gay unless you tell them! Then you would not be judged by sexual preference, but by how you interacted with others!

posted by primejoe21 at 03:53 PM on September 21

Bigot redux. I guess going before a judge to get married is a public sex act to you. It's not worth it. I'm not even gay, but you're a fucking idiot.

posted by Hugh Janus at 04:00 PM on September 21

Isnt sodomy illegal? In most states, yes, and so is marijuana, but I'll take a hookah and a hummer any day over a sermon, thanks.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:10 PM on September 21

Who would give a shit about your kind...? Might be the most inadvertently insightful comment you've made so far. I mean, let's face it, nobody would give a shit about black people if they didn't run around being black all the damn time. Same with the hispanics, arabs, asians, indians, all that...everybody knows they chose to be how they are.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:17 PM on September 21

I am straight. Why can't you just do your thing without public acknowledgement that you, as a man, like to have a woman sexually? No one has to know, but you have to cry out, "I'm different, I'm straight, accept me, accept me!" Who would give a shit about your kind if it werent for the public displays? Leave it alone -- do your business privately.

posted by rcade at 04:27 PM on September 21

"I mean, let's face it, nobody would give a shit about black people if they didn't run around being black all the damn time. Same with the hispanics, arabs, asians, indians, all that...everybody knows they chose to be how they are." That is a moronic comment. What the hell is it supposed to mean? You are racist against everyon eexcept whites? Im white and I find that offensive to everyone. That was moronic. Period.

posted by redsoxrgay at 04:32 PM on September 21

It means they didn't teach Rhetoric in your school district. I am going to disabuse [a bigot] of the notion that his/her bigotry will be greeted with [respect] instead of the contempt that it deserves Far be it from me to defend a diversity tea, but I think the original poster's point is attacking a bigot with "You're an idiot", while attractive, is a net loss. You theoretically have a chance to change someone's mind on a subject they are most definitely wrong about. Remember that racism/ bigotry comes from fear and misunderstanding. Remember things like race and religion are used to divide the poor to keep them from rising up as one and demanding a better shake. I know how sappy and stupid and unrealistic that all is, but if there's a 1% chance, seems like it's worth it. Cue The Specials' "Racist Friend".

posted by yerfatma at 05:00 PM on September 21

Hugh Janus, Ah! Name calling! So intellectual! I would expect as much from.... nevermind! Go ahead with your dimwitted response, you are OBVIOUSLY highly intelligent, judging from your outstanding vocabulary! Wow! :) Oh, by the way, you cant ruin my day, hour, minute or second by stooping to high school badgering, so try to be an adult, and if that is too much of a stretch, why dont you just go be ignorant somewhere else! Have a nice day!

posted by primejoe21 at 05:42 PM on September 21

Nobody would give a damn about black people if they didnt go around being black????? What the.... Unlike race, which is apparent upon sight, ones sexual preference is not known unless that person makes it so! Duh! You cant tell a gay man from a straight man, (unless, of course, he were TRYING to be noticed as a gay man). Are you really that dumb, honestly, to replace sexual preference with race in that statement? Ever heard of "Dont ask, Dont Tell?"

posted by primejoe21 at 05:47 PM on September 21

Going before a judge to be married....homosexually? Wow, now theres something to ponder. If you dont agree with the statement that MARRIAGE WAS BROUGHT ABOUT FOR THE PURPOSE OF A MAN AND A WOMAN to be joined, then any further argument is meaningless. If everyone were gay, this would not be an argument at all. Of course, if everyone were gay, none of us would be here, due to lack of reproduction. ONE POINT: KEEP IT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS!!! Gay people can spend a happy life together, sharing their moments til their time is up. Why waste that time trying to gain acceptance when, in the end, even if you do succeed, that time would have been better spent making memories, not tempers flare. Does anyone see the rationale in this? Or am I truly blind to the other side? Objectively, honestly, does my argument make sense, or am i being a dictator? Im not banning homosexuality, if you have noticed, but believe that there wouldnt be such a fuss if everyone just enjoyed their time here on Earth without forcing opinions and lifestyles on each other. Be gay, be straight, screw animals and corpses, who really cares, just do it at home. And no, Im not talking about PDA (thats public displays of affection, Hugh, I know you already knew that though :).

posted by primejoe21 at 05:59 PM on September 21

So what? Do you really think that people who are the targets of societally-approved bigotry are ever, by any means, going to get a significant percentage of society to like them? Save that shit for the diversity teas. I suspect most gay people don't give a rat's ass if straight people like them or not, and would be plenty happy if straight people would just mind their own god damned business. I was not talking about a diversity tea. I was talking about the real world. People have a way of deciding for on their own what is and what is not their business. You proclaiming loudly that is it none of their damn business doesn't make a bit of difference. Further, I don't think gay people care if straight people like them, but I am sure that they care that they understand them and the problems they experience. Your view completely excludes social change. Of course, social change has already occurred because homosexuality is much more accepted now than it was 30 years ago. Obviously, some people have had their minds changed on this issue. And, thankfully, there are people who are working to change more views, even if you aren't one of them.

posted by bperk at 06:06 PM on September 21

Objectively, honestly, does my argument make sense, or am i being a dictator? . . . If you dont agree with the statement that MARRIAGE WAS BROUGHT ABOUT FOR THE PURPOSE OF A MAN AND A WOMAN to be joined, then any further argument is meaningless. No and yes.

posted by yerfatma at 06:38 PM on September 21

Hey primejoe, you know something? This argument ends the moment you stop telling everyone how to live and who to be attracted to. I won't tell if you won't.

posted by chicobangs at 06:38 PM on September 21

Um... wasn't this supposed to be about Laveranues Coles?

posted by Samsonov14 at 06:47 PM on September 21

OK Fine. In the words of a famous man: Live long and prosper, gay or straight. i added the gay or straight part :)

posted by primejoe21 at 06:55 PM on September 21

/applies Vulcan cocklock I was wondering the same thing, Sammy.

posted by yerfatma at 07:37 PM on September 21

Everybody should just drop this comment. As I saisd earilier, this argument could last forever. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. There have been like 70 comments, and we havent gotten anywhere. Lets just all agree that we all have different views on right and wrong, and how to live life. It could be anything- people will think differently about it. Especially something in which people feel so strongly about. I can see primejoe21s points of view... sort of, but you can't fault him for displaying his feelings. Everyone who is a member here voices their opinions about something. Thats the point of the site. If people didnt, this site would be extremely boring, and stupid. Not to mention life would be dull, and the Amendments would have to be revised dramatically. Anyway- EVERYBODY IS RIGHT IN THEIR OWN OPINION!!!

posted by redsoxrgay at 08:02 PM on September 21

There is a light at the and of the tunnel, and at the rate some people are going in this thread it will be a train!!!

posted by jojomfd1 at 10:15 PM on September 21

Allow me to refrase that.... it will hopefully be a train!!!

posted by jojomfd1 at 11:39 PM on September 21

EVERYBODY IS RIGHT IN THEIR OWN OPINION!!! Thankfully, you're wrong about that. Besides, what would be the point of discussing them?

posted by yerfatma at 06:06 AM on September 22

Primejoe21, you equated falling in love with a member of your own sex with fucking animals and dead people, then you said I was being ignorant. Why should gays keep it hidden, but straight people not? If you can come up with a reason that isn't "because some straight people are offended/made nervous/inspired to violence by expressions of gay love," one that doesn't rest on society's disapproval (remember when society couldn't abide miscegenation?), you might be less tiresome. Calling you a fucking idiot was not idle name-calling. It was a precise description of what you are, judged by what you wrote and how you wrote it. I doubt you are a child. But you write and think like one. A child with bad parents, who teach fear and hate instead of love and acceptance. Too bad. By all means, go fuck your wife, make babies, and teach them to be assholes, just like daddy. I sure hope one of them turns out gay (or fucks dead sheep). It would serve you right. And it would make me laugh.

posted by Hugh Janus at 08:32 AM on September 22

Make you laugh in the abstract or make you laugh watching?

posted by yerfatma at 09:12 AM on September 22

bperk: I was not talking about a diversity tea. I was talking about the real world. People have a way of deciding for on their own what is and what is not their business. You proclaiming loudly that is it none of their damn business doesn't make a bit of difference. Er, well, you're sort of right but mostly wrong. You're right that simply saying, "None of your business," won't make people decide to keep their long snot-dripping noses out, but there are other things that will have that effect. See Lawrence v. Texas for further reference. Further, I don't think gay people care if straight people like them, but I am sure that they care that they understand them and the problems they experience. Care? Now we're back to the diversity tea-table. The question, bperk, is whether it makes sense to expend energy into getting people to like you, or in expending that same energy in getting them to respect a reasonable civilized boundary and mind their own business. That is, of course, a personal choice, and it's up to you how you want to spend your time; however, you were the one who told me that I was wasting my time by calling a bigot an idiot. No such a thing; too many people in this world think it's perfectly okay to offer their opinions about "gay lifestyles", as if anyone asked. Telling them in no uncertain terms that they're rude is applying a cluestick, and who are you to say that none of them will ever get it? Gentle and subtle persuasion doesn't always do the trick; being told that something that you have always felt to be acceptable is not, can sometimes wake some people up (yes, I've known it to happen, many times). If you play nicey-nice for the rest of your life, you may not get people to like and understand whatever it is you do in your bedroom with the partner of your choice; if you play it a different way, you can get them to understand that it's not their place to scrutinize or comment on your life. Your view completely excludes social change. Of course, social change has already occurred because homosexuality is much more accepted now than it was 30 years ago. Obviously, some people have had their minds changed on this issue. And, thankfully, there are people who are working to change more views, even if you aren't one of them. Hah. You don't even know who you're talking to or what I've done in the way of "social change". Consider the possibility that I've been around a few blocks that you haven't and that I know a few things that you don't.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:13 AM on September 22

A child with bad parents, who teach fear and hate instead of love and acceptance. Too bad. Hugh, you dont even know my parents, who are two of the greatest people on earth, unlike yourself, who STILL resorts to name calling. Your inablitiy to cope with circumstances that dont fit neatly into your world are apparent. YOU are the moron, and if its personal you would like to get, i am indeed the last person you should be trying to upset. Go vent to someone who cares about your whiny little quips and name calling, please, and leave intellectual conversations and topics to the mature people in the room. P.S. Notice you are the only one lashing out ? Assholes just like daddy? Wow, you must be psychic, and have no idea who i am. Unfortunately, people like you exist, who defend what they believe in by lashing out angrily (SOOOOO manly of you, Im sooo impressed, you must be a big man ;).

posted by primejoe21 at 11:19 AM on September 22

One last thing, insulting someones parents is about as immature as you can get. Its been since elementary school since Ive heard that one!

posted by primejoe21 at 11:22 AM on September 22

I insulted you -- parse my sentence, and you'll see I'm talking about your children growing up to be assholes, just like their daddy -- you. Your reading comprehension is about as good as your writing. You aren't smart, and don't have a command of logic. You are ignorant, and bigoted. You ignore arguments you can't address and get all twisted up when someone calls you on it. You lash out, from start to finish, and accuse others of being the only ones lashing. All of the written evidence you've piled up on this thread points to one conclusion: you are a fucking idiot. I don't need to have any idea who you are; you're a fucking idiot.

posted by Hugh Janus at 12:05 PM on September 22

EVERYBODY IS RIGHT IN THEIR OWN OPINION!!! "Thankfully, you're wrong about that. Besides, what would be the point of discussing them?" WTF? What I said is completely true. Everybody IS right in their own opinion. Certinaly YOU must think youre right, or you wouldnt be posting a comment on how>I am wrong. But my comment is totaly logical. You are wrong- I am right- youre an idiot.

posted by redsoxrgay at 01:49 PM on September 22

My opinion is that 2+2 = 5 and that the sky is a brilliant shade of mint green.

posted by yerfatma at 02:11 PM on September 22

What sky? There is no sky. That's the top of the marble.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:25 PM on September 22

I think what you meant to say was "everyone has, or is entitled to, an idiotic opinion!!!"

posted by garfield at 03:01 PM on September 22

Will somebody please, step on the marble.

posted by jojomfd1 at 03:42 PM on September 22

posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:56 PM on September 22

Thats all I am going to say about this. I have some opinions on what should be done, but thats for another time and a different discussion group. Such discussions, in the past have only produced 'name calling and people on all sides of the issue frustrated and pulling out their hair. Trust me, I dont have that much left. ;-) Boy am I glad I stayed out of this discussion!

posted by daddisamm at 04:24 PM on September 22

Hugh Janus, Or is it Huge Anus? If you were worth the time.... Keep calling names, show how macho you are!!!! Errr, look at me, Im Hugh, Im tough, I call names, grrrrrr. And reread your own comment, you said specifically... I doubt you are a child. But you write and think like one. A child with bad parents, who teach fear and hate instead of love and acceptance. Too bad. DUH!!!!!!! Oh please, stop picking on me, you big poopyhead! There, that should be about your intelligence level. Go soak your head..... Someone seems a little insecure to me.... tough guy!

posted by primejoe21 at 06:14 PM on September 22

People get so tough online, its just amazing. honestly, scared to death they are, yet they rant like their 10 feet tall and bulletproof..... Next you will ask for my lunch money..... and you call me an idiot....

posted by primejoe21 at 06:17 PM on September 22

Hugh Janus, Or is it Huge Anus? This line works better if you imagine a hard-boiled detective addressing the mincing butler. Who did it.

posted by yerfatma at 06:46 PM on September 22

I thought it was supposed to be a porn name.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:46 PM on September 22

Good on Coles. And Kendall...judging by your screen name and your pathetic defense of it, you're an asshat, but you're not bright enough to understand why.

posted by alumshubby at 05:18 AM on September 23

Hey why dont you go fuck yourself? Its a screename that isnt going to significantly change anyones lifes. So go fuck yourself. Besides if you gays can take a penis, then you can take a joke. Thanks- Kendall

posted by redsoxrgay at 05:27 AM on September 23

redsoxrgay, why don't you answer my question?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:01 AM on September 23

Guys, I just want to say - the fighting this week has been great. We so rarely really get down to it and exchange such ranting. It's a pleasant change from all this nicey-nicey we've been keeping up.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:10 AM on September 23

Care to step outside and repeat that, snowback?

posted by yerfatma at 09:11 AM on September 23

Lil Brown Bat- No im not a pornstar, and no its not a porno name. Secondly, I am changing my Screename, because one of the Administraitors says its "too ofensive". Anyway, im not a porn star. Thanks For Asking-

posted by redsoxrgay at 02:18 PM on September 23

Lil Brown Bat- No im not a pornstar, and no its not a porno name. I was talking about Hugh Janus. Somehow I don't imagine you'd find a character called "redsoxrgay" in a porn movie.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:02 PM on September 23

OK I thought that it was weird that you thought I was a porn star. Anyway, how does a Porn Stars name not get changed, when mine does? Pornstars are way more offensive than that- I think.

posted by redsoxrgay at 03:20 PM on September 23

OK I thought that it was weird that you thought I was a porn star. Rest easy; I was never under any such illusion. It's a joke, son, joke.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:30 PM on September 23

I, however, am quite flattered.

posted by Hugh Janus at 03:48 PM on September 23

Y'know, if you say Hugh's name in a certain way...

posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:27 PM on September 24

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