04/18/24
December 08, 2004
Notre Shame: As Urban Meyer arrives in Florida, Notre Dame continues to face repercussions from firing Tyrone Willingham. Retiring university President Edward Malloy said the decision made him embarrassed to be leading the school. The 2,000-member Black Alumni of Notre Dame also blasted the move: "This decision will affect the African-American community more than the University might anticipate in areas of recruiting, student and faculty retention and Alumni participation and contributions in the future."
Bill, which current black coaches would you suggest hiring? The leading candidates are all coaching at the college or pro level. And that tends to be where coaches come from. So until black coaches make it into college and the pros en masse, this is going to be a problem for all schools. Did race play a part? Maybe. I have no idea. I'm still not clear on who fired Ty: it wasn't the president and it wasn't the AD. I'm with the guys from PTI on the school president coming out a week later saying he disagreed: "Great, where were you a week ago?"
posted by yerfatma at 07:07 PM on December 08, 2004
The espn article seems to imply that the board and the incoming president pulled the trigger. Anyone want to lay money that the incoming president will never make it to the full position, a la BU?
posted by tieguy at 08:26 PM on December 08, 2004
Yerfatma, I'm not really following American football that closely this season, especially coordinators at the university level, so I couldn't give you specific names. But if there aren't a bunch of good ones, that's an even bigger indictment of the hiring system, wouldn't you say?
posted by billsaysthis at 09:11 PM on December 08, 2004
tieguy, as a student at BU, let me say that whole president thing is a total frickin' mess. And FYI, John Silber is probably the least popular person on the entire campus, among students AND faculty. Total mess.
posted by swank6 at 09:57 PM on December 08, 2004
that's an even bigger indictment of the hiring system, wouldn't you say? My point exactly. It's not ND that has the race problem.
posted by yerfatma at 06:11 AM on December 09, 2004
There are plenty of black coaches with enough credentials to merit a serious look at Notre Dame, mostly in prominent positions in the NFL. Looking around, I'd put these coaches on that list: Ray Rhodes, Romeo Crennel, Ted Cottrell, Lovie Smith, Sherm Lewis, Johnny Roland, Emmitt Thomas, and Woody McCorvey. Before you challenge any of them on credentials, compare his record to a white spare like Rick Neuheisel, who continues to fall upwards from school to school. It's not like major schools don't grab some little-known white coaches, either, like Ron Zook in Florida. Whether they had one originally, Notre Dame definitely has a huge race problem now. They alienated their own president and many alumni and didn't even get the guy they wanted. Setting aside the race issue, how do they give Willingham the hook before working out a deal in principle with Meyer?
posted by rcade at 07:15 AM on December 09, 2004
Ray Rhodes, Romeo Crennel, Ted Cottrell, Lovie Smith, Sherm Lewis With the exception of Lovie Smith (who's currently an NFL head coach, isn't he?), those guys are all NFL co-ordinators with a decent shot at an NFL job. So I don't know how interested they'd be (not that an offer would hurt). I don't think Rick Neuheisel's career is evidence of institutional racism and it doesn't apply to Notre Dame's case. Does football at both the pro and college level have a serious hiring disconnect? Sure. I'm not clear on why firing a black coach should be evidence of racism. They actually hired a black coach. And how much will it help the case of other black coaches who need a job, not good feelings, if firing a black coach becomes "evidence" of racism. Seems like a chilling effect to me. how do they give Willingham the hook before working out a deal in principle with Meyer? As we say in New England, "No fucking clue, guy." The thing that hurts is two separate commentators on ESPN last night said the best available person for the job was . . . Willingham.
posted by yerfatma at 08:31 AM on December 09, 2004
I guess Neuheisel's not the best example now, because his numbers at Colorado and Washington were good and he won a Rose Bowl with the latter. But when he was hired by Colorado in 1994, he was a 33 year old who had never held a coordinator's position and was only six years into his coaching career. Colorado at the time was one of the top programs in I-A, only a few years removed from its co-national championship.
posted by rcade at 10:22 AM on December 09, 2004
obviously this is all some kind of NCAA football edition of punk'd and Willingham and ND will announce at a press conference that he is still the coach there and Meyer was in on it...any day now... any day...right?
posted by chris2sy at 12:03 PM on December 09, 2004
LOL, chris2sy.
posted by billsaysthis at 01:50 PM on December 09, 2004
I can't believe many of you are eating up the crap ESPN is dishing out. Just like any other entertainment organization they're going to demonize people to get ratings, and it's working. Look harder. You're an idiot if you think Willingham's dimissal involved his race. He was not even close to getting it done or making significant progress. He's at best an average coach. Meyer hung ND out to dry. Not to say ND didn't put themselves in a vulnerable position, but they had a deal and Meyer pulled some last minute BS when he got scared. He asked to bring 6 JUCO recruits that had committed to Utah and wanted to recruit JUCOs in the future. This is something ND has never allowed and shouldn't. Monk Mally took something that was an internal issue to ND and publicized it like a whiny little child because he lost the argument and he knows he is out of there in July. I find that despicable. His loyalty should be to ND and instead he's feeding the media to bring his own school down. I wish they would give him an early exit. ND will be fine. They just need to get a new coach. Winning will fix everything.
posted by House at 03:23 PM on December 09, 2004
D'oh
posted by garfield at 03:50 PM on December 09, 2004
Yeah, Notre Dame hates on the JUCOs unless its part of their lore...like Rudy Ruettiger...then they don't seem to mind.
posted by chris2sy at 03:52 PM on December 09, 2004
Well, and now we have a ND administrator shaving her head in protest. Yeah, I don't know either.
posted by avogadro at 04:35 PM on December 09, 2004
Yeah, Notre Dame hates on the JUCOs unless its part of their lore...like Rudy Ruettiger...then they don't seem to mind. Actually, Holy Cross College has always had a relationship with ND where its students have to meet ND standards before transferring (and even then, it's still competitive). Facts, folks.
posted by avogadro at 04:40 PM on December 09, 2004
There are numerous graduates of ND that were JUCOs, but like Rudy, they were academic transfers from a Notre Dame affiliated junior college, Holy Cross College. Rudy earned his way into the school and then walked onto the football team. Completely different from JUCO athletes.
posted by House at 04:50 PM on December 09, 2004
All I'm hoping for out of this is for NBC to ditch Notre Dame's TV contract. Why should I have to watch bad football every freaking Saturday -- just because the university happens to have a direct relationship with God?
posted by wfrazerjr at 08:47 PM on December 09, 2004
Oh right, and NBC 's going to replace that with what? Arena Football? You'll be watching Gravity Games repeats, given the state of NBC Sports. Turn the channel.
posted by yerfatma at 07:12 AM on December 10, 2004
It isn's possible that down the road NBC might replace Notre Dame with, say, better college football? Or at least OTHER college football? I know they aren't a major player any longer, but for God's sake, admit that ND doesn't draw the way it used to and move on! And just what the hell's wrong with Arena Football?!?
posted by wfrazerjr at 08:11 AM on December 10, 2004
Jon Bon Jovi
posted by yerfatma at 10:40 AM on December 10, 2004
I'd take the Gravity Games over Notre Dame football these days.
posted by rcade at 12:32 PM on December 10, 2004
Guess we're not the only two to think race was a factor here, rcade. Not to mention that leading candidate Tom Clements is another white guy, as are all the mentioned candidates (Meyer, Mariucci, Petrino). Gee, aren't you surprised?