04/18/24
September 14, 2010
Rays Take Lead in AL East: In an epic pitching battle that began with two 17-game winners facing each other, the Tampa Bay Rays defeated the New York Yankees 1-0 in 11 innings Monday night, putting them in first place in the AL East. The teams play each other six more times, with the last four in New York.
Than Yankees have played barely above .500 for the last 50 games. One reason I wish the Red Sox had a better year is because I simply don't think the Yankees are that good this year.
As much as I hate to see the Yankees win championship #443893 I have a hard time rooting for a team that has such awful support from their fans. There were 26,000 fans at last nights game with the Yankees. If a game for first place against one of the biggest draws in the game can't fill the stadium then your fan base doesn't deserve to watch a winner. Must be depressing for a Rays players.
I might be rooting for the Rangers this postseason.
posted by justgary at 03:34 PM on September 14, 2010
It's gonna go down to the wire. And what justgary said about fan support.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:26 PM on September 14, 2010
If a game for first place against one of the biggest draws in the game can't fill the stadium then your fan base doesn't deserve to watch a winner.
Tampa doesn't deserve to have a team like the Rays. Just a few thousand fans show up to support one of the best teams in baseball.
posted by BornIcon at 04:47 PM on September 14, 2010
Though the Rangers have finally started to have some decent attendance numbers, for much of the season the fan support wasn't there.
They do well when the Yankees/Red Sox/Angels are in town, but on those nights half the crowd is wearing the visitor's jerseys.
posted by dviking at 05:01 PM on September 14, 2010
Texas averages over 30,000, 13th out of a league of 30. Their average is more than the Rays drew in their most important game of the season.
Tampa is 23rd out of 30. And we're talking about a team that went to the WS just a couple of years ago.
No comparison.
(and the rays also benefit from other teams fans attending their games)
posted by justgary at 05:20 PM on September 14, 2010
I don't blame anybody for staying home and watching games on TV in this economy. Particularly if they have HD.
posted by rcade at 05:42 PM on September 14, 2010
I don't blame anybody for staying home and watching games on TV in this economy.
Their tv ratings have been high. But the economy isn't only bad in tampa, and prices aren't only high in tampa, and yet fans seem to better support their teams.
The fans can do what they want. I'm not blaming them for anything. I just enjoy seeing a team win with an active fan base. Unless you're going to blame the economy for the last 12 years (in other words, every year of their existence) I'd say your reasoning lacks anything to back it up.
posted by justgary at 06:03 PM on September 14, 2010
It's hard to expect a consistent fan base when the only people that grew up Rays' fans are 12. Give it 80 years or so.
posted by smithnyiu at 06:13 PM on September 14, 2010
Florida and California were among the hardest hit states because the real estate bubble was so inflated in both states. I'm amazed that with 162 game seasons, any team is selling out these days. That's a ridiculous amount of fan commitment to count on.
I'd gladly go see the Rays if I was on that side of Florida. Fans should enjoy having a team there that can win the East. When this current run of good teams ends, they may not challenge in the East again for a long time.
But the Trop ain't exactly Fenway.
posted by rcade at 06:24 PM on September 14, 2010
But, but, but rcade, the Red Sox have sold out for 12,632 straight games!
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:25 PM on September 14, 2010
Yeah, what rcade said. Tampa has been one of hardest hit regions as far as unemployment goes (worst unemployment rate of any of the regions in the NFL, as least). Further, the Trop is a terrible location. I have no idea why they didn't put it in Tampa.
posted by bperk at 06:51 PM on September 14, 2010
That's what I was thinking. The facility is on the wrong side of the bay.
posted by beaverboard at 06:59 PM on September 14, 2010
No comparison.
(and the rays also benefit from other teams fans attending their games)
justgary, that is only true of very late...in late July the Rangers were on a pace to have their lowest attendance in 20 years...they were leading their division at the time.
In August and September they have had two home series against the Yankees, one series against Boston, and one against the Twins. Top draws that helped bring their average up, and a lot of the fans in the seats were not their fans.
posted by dviking at 09:20 PM on September 14, 2010
Florida and California were among the hardest hit states because the real estate bubble was so inflated in both states. I'm amazed that with 162 game seasons, any team is selling out these days. That's a ridiculous amount of fan commitment to count on.
Again, they've never had decent crowds during any year of their existence. And we're not talking about mediocre attendance, middle of the pack. We're talking very near the bottom for a first place team that was in the WS a few years ago.
A better economy would help, sure, but looking at their history I don't think there's any sign that it would it would have more than a small impact. And I doubt they're going to get 80 years to attract a decent following.
But the Trop ain't exactly Fenway.
Eh, the trop sucks, but it has AC and a roof in a part of the state that is humid and rainy (and you can get fantastic seats!). If a team doesn't win, we're told people will come to see a winner. That didn't happen for the Rays. So now let's build a new stadium. That will surely bring fans. Or it might not. You could just be digging a hole to nowhere.
in late July the Rangers were on a pace to have their lowest attendance in 20 years...they were leading their division at the time.
That's why they call it an average. And even when the Rangers weren't drawing, it was better than the Rays.
In August and September they have had two home series against the Yankees, one series against Boston, and one against the Twins. Top draws that helped bring their average up, and a lot of the fans in the seats were not their fans.
The Yankees and Red Sox play in Tampa also, which "helps bring the average up, and a lot of the fans in the seats were not their fans". So the advantage you're referring to doesn't exist.
And the twins? Aren't they almost at the bottom for road attendance?
posted by justgary at 12:58 AM on September 15, 2010
There's quite a bit of discussion recently on this topic:
Rays' low attendance has consequences for stadium debate as well as Yankees series
Rays' attendance making news in other cities (shows that other winning teams in the past have had similar crowd numbers)
Rays bemoan lack of attendance
Tampa Bay Rays' poor attendance a problem everyone plays a part in
Tampa Bay is a weak baseball market. That's not an insult, it is a reality. Forget all the rationalizations about the bad economy or the traffic on the bridges or the catwalks in the stadium. The bottom line is this team has never drawn particularly well. It didn't draw when it was a brand new product. It didn't draw when it won the American League pennant. It is not drawing now.
All you need to know is, after waiting forever for Major League Baseball to arrive, Tampa Bay fans sold out the first game in Tropicana Field history then went six years before the next sellout. In the world of short honey moons, that's like hooking up with the bartender at your own wedding reception.
Granted, there are valid reasons for this. A lack of major corporations and a dearth of high-paying jobs in the region would be a start. No real community identity would be another cause. But the bottom line is that this is not a strong sports market.
posted by justgary at 04:35 AM on September 15, 2010
Bperk,
I went to college at USF in Tampa, and we actually discussed this in one of my local government classes. It basically boiled down to the driving force behind all politcs: Money. St Petersburg, where the Trop is, had lost out on a bunch of good deals in terms of regional facilities in the past (most notably with regards to Tampa International Airport and what is Raymond James Stadium), and they were NOT going to lose out on another money maker (they were planning on it invigorating the St. Pete downtown). They kept a hold of the plan no matter that it made better financial sense to place it in Tampa, where every one in the region could utilize it.
posted by Bonkers at 07:22 AM on September 15, 2010
I don't buy that Tampa is a weak baseball market. The Yankees spring training team has the best attendance in baseball. Of course, they are located in Tampa. St. Pete is an old folks town, and it is more than one hour away from most of Tampa (especially North Tampa). Who is going to buy season tickets for a team that far away?
Bonkers, it's pretty unfortunate that the knew it made better financial sense to put it in Tampa, but they stuck it in St. Pete anyway. I grew up in Tampa and we went to St. Pete a handful of times ever. There is too much competition for other things to do in Tampa to drive that far. The Lightning have middling attendance for the NHL, and they are located in downtown Tampa. No one grows up playing hockey in Tampa, but baseball is huge.
posted by bperk at 08:06 AM on September 15, 2010
The Yankees' spring training facility only holds 11,000 people and they play around 18 games there each spring.
posted by rcade at 10:35 AM on September 15, 2010
Looks like the Rays being in the top spot lasted all but 1 day considering that the Yanks are back in 1st.
posted by BornIcon at 02:45 PM on September 15, 2010
So the advantage you're referring to doesn't exist.
And the twins? Aren't they almost at the bottom for road attendance?
You do like to show some creative reading skills when it comes to my posts...advantage??? I don't remember speaking of any advantage.
Just pointing out that the Rangers also don't draw very well on a consistent basis, given that they're leading their division. And, I noted that the recent yankee/Red Sox series were the reason for the uptick.
As to the Twins, they drew nicely here, however, being a small market team they don't have the nationwide fan base that a NY or Boston has. The night I went it was a pretty even Twins/Ranger split....the 8th inning rally cheer for the Twins was by far the loudest fan participation of the night.
posted by dviking at 02:50 PM on September 15, 2010
The Yankees spring training team has the best attendance in baseball.
The Yankees will draw everywhere regardless. I was in Ireland recently and I was amazed at the number of Yankee caps being worn.
Just pointing out that the Rangers also don't draw very well on a consistent basis, given that they're leading their division.
But they draw quite a bit better than the Rays, on average, which was my point. I'll keep in mind that the Rangers don't draw consistently, but in no way does it cheapen their lead in attendance over the Rays, which was my original comment.
You do like to show some creative reading skills when it comes to my posts...advantage??? I don't remember speaking of any advantage.
The Rangers got an uptick from the Red Sox and Yankees; so did the Rays. Almost everyone gets an uptick from those teams. That's why the average attendance is used and not selective parts of the season. No, you didn't write the word advantage. If that wasn't what you were going for, I have no idea what your point was, at least in relation to what I wrote, which is what you responded to.
As to the Twins, they drew nicely here
The Rangers 2010 attendance average is 30,465. They played 4 games against the twins in August:
August 23rd: 22,757 (46.3% full)
August 24th: 20,107 (40.9% full)
August 25th: 29,926 (60.9% full)
August 26th: 24,738 (50.3% full)
Not a single game reached their average. Only one came anywhere close.
The twins are not a top draw, they are certainly not a top draw in Texas, and they did not 'bring their average up'. Quite the opposite. They brought it down. Or, hell, maybe I don't read so good and the numbers are big and confusing. Do let me know if I'm wrong.
posted by justgary at 05:07 PM on September 15, 2010
I think when dviking said this:
In August and September they have had two home series against the Yankees, one series against Boston, and one against the Twins. Top draws that helped bring their average up, and a lot of the fans in the seats were not their fans.
he switched back to meaning the Rays? I could be wrong but I was buying his including the Twins as a good draw for the Rays based on their following in Ft. Myers.
posted by tselson at 10:19 PM on September 15, 2010
While I appreciate the support tselson, I really wasn't even making much of a comment regarding the Twins, but gary knows that. My initial post speaks nothing of the Twins, I just mentioned them as part of the August line up
Point is, and was, the Rangers' fans have not consistently backed their division leading team, just as the Rays' fans haven't.
For what it's worth, the Twins did draw nicely considering that at least one game was in over 100 degree heat, and that given that it was a Mon-Thur. series, one wouldn't expect the same crowds as on weekends. (Key word is nicely, never said they outsold the Yankees)
The Rangers have dropped ticket prices, beer prices, hot dog prices, etc., something that a divisional leading team really shouldn't have to do at this point in the season.
posted by dviking at 10:37 PM on September 15, 2010
I confuse easily, these days.
This is an up to date attendance record reflecting the change in attendance versus last year. Interesting.
posted by tselson at 12:00 AM on September 16, 2010
Point is, and was, the Rangers' fans have not consistently backed their division leading team, just as the Rays' fans haven't.
But better than the Rays, right? Which was my initial point. No where did I say that the Rangers had the leagues best attendance. It's middle of the road. But it's not at the bottom, like the Rays.
For what it's worth, the Twins did draw nicely considering that at least one game was in over 100 degree heat, and that given that it was a Mon-Thur. series, one wouldn't expect the same crowds as on weekends.
You can spin it anyway you want. The twins are not a good draw on the road, and they were under the average in all 4 games against Texas. So those games hurt the Rangers average. Can you blame heat on all 4 games? It would be great if you actually backed up what you claim with actual numbers. I'm all ears. If you can't, it's okay to admit you're wrong.
For what it's worth, the Rangers played the Tigers tonight, in Texas, on a thursday, and the crowd was listed at 34,964. Unlike all 4 of the twins games, that was a decent showing.
The Yankees were in Tampa tonight in a game for 1st place. Attendance was 29,733. Last monday the Yankees were in Texas and the Rangers drew 42,007, and unlike Tampa, they're not divisional rivals.
My original comment was that I, personally, have a problem rooting for a team that's winning, and has for several years, and is still at the bottom of attendance numbers. If you look at the numbers it's very clear the Rangers draw better than the Rays. Period. Why is the only topic in question.
The Rangers have dropped ticket prices, beer prices, hot dog prices, etc., something that a divisional leading team really shouldn't have to do at this point in the season.
If the problem is the economy, as several have suggested (here and elsewhere), that's exactly what they should be doing.
posted by justgary at 01:51 AM on September 16, 2010
Rays take back first despite Jeter's quest for an Oscar.
posted by justgary at 02:06 AM on September 16, 2010
For what it's worth, the Rangers played the Tigers tonight, in Texas, on a thursday
First, it's Wednesday, but fine. As I clearly said, at least twice...the Rangers fans are now backing their team better, but have not all year, even though the Rangers have lead their division.
Had you gone to last week's Ranger/Yankee game you would have seen a ton of Yankee hats, which only proves that the Yankee's fans are great, not the Rangers.
I'll grant that the Rangers' fans are better than the Rays' fans, but that was never my point, it was only that the Rangers' fans aren't the best.
posted by dviking at 02:09 AM on September 16, 2010
Had you gone to last week's Ranger/Yankee game you would have seen a ton of Yankee hats
I don't doubt that. Other than fenway and a few others there are Yankee caps at every ballpark they visit. That's why I don't see the relevance. They help every team draw fans when they visit.
I'll grant that the Rangers' fans are better than the Rays' fans, but that was never my point, it was only that the Rangers' fans aren't the best.
Hey, we agree on something.
(Everyone knows the Red Sox have the best fans.)
posted by justgary at 02:14 AM on September 16, 2010
The Rangers have dropped ticket prices, beer prices, hot dog prices, etc., something that a divisional leading team really shouldn't have to do at this point in the season.
Last year we were talking about all those empty seats in the front rows at Yankees Stadium. Rather than putting attendance woes entirely on fans, perhaps it's time to look at whether teams are pricing their fans out of the experience.
posted by rcade at 07:26 AM on September 16, 2010
Finally! I hope they can keep it. The Yankees seem to be going through a bit of a rough patch. If the Rays are lucky, it will last a while.