January 07, 2003

Eddie Murray and Gary Carter: gain entrance into Cooperstown. It's about time for Gary, he was always my second favorite player from the 80s. Congrats to both of them, well deserved.

posted by corpse to baseball at 03:03 PM - 10 comments

The big shocker was how poorly Ryne Sandberg did in the voting (50% or so). Before Biggio and Alomar, before the power explosion of the late 90's, he was THE second baseman in MLB. There hasn't been a 2B voted to the Hall of Fame since the legendary Joe Morgan. When you do a list of great 2B in history, Sandberg finishes around 7th or so (depending on how you value Alomar and Biggio). I didn't know if he'd be a first ballot HOF member, but I expected a better showing than this. And I personally want to know who the dumbass fucktard sportswriters were that voted for Rick Honeycutt and Danny Tartabull and Vince Coleman. Seven sympathy votes for Darryl Kile I can comprehend, but for those other guys? Criminal idiocy.

posted by grum@work at 03:19 PM on January 07

I agree on Sandberg, but I'm also disappointed in the lack of love for Alan Trammell. Let's compare: Sandberg: 8,385 AB, .285 BA (2,386/8,385) (five .300 seasons), 403 doubles, 282 HRs, 1,061 RBI, 1,318 runs, .344 OBP Trammell: 8,288 AB, .285 BA (2,365/8,288 ) (seven .300 seasons), 412 doubles, 185 HRs, 1,003 RBI, 1,231 runs, .352 OBP Sandberg leads in all-star games (10-7) and has one MVP, but Trammell won the world series MVP in 84 and finished second in the 87 MVP race. Both deserve to get in, probably not first ballet though.

posted by corpse at 04:01 PM on January 07

Corpse, what exactly happens after the first ballot which would change the vote. Look, I'm picking on you here and I understand fully that many sportswriters will use a first-ballot vote as an extra special honor for certain players, but what I don't understand is why... Neither Alan Trammell nor Ryne Sandberg will hit another home run, double or raise their average over the next year and if I believe they should be in the Hall of Fame, then I believe they should be in the Hall of Fame. Waiting a year risks too many things. If they deserve it, they deserve it and that is that. And they do. I'm all for both. But I'm more strongly in favor of ridding the world of the "first ballot BS". Congrats to Gary Carter! You deserve it. The best backstop of your time.

posted by 86 at 04:16 PM on January 07

About damn time Carter got in. They don't make 'em like him much anymore. Corpse, agreement here on Sandberg and Trammell. It'll be interesting to see what the voters think of Alomar when he becomes eligible, what with loogies and everything...

posted by PeteyStock at 04:45 PM on January 07

Voting results here, btw.

posted by PeteyStock at 04:47 PM on January 07

First ballot seems to signify some sort of "inner circle" fame to a player. Since getting 100% of the vote has NEVER happened (except to Lou Gehrig), this is the only way that the idiotic BBWAA feel that they can bestow some sort of "special honour" on a player. It's crap and stupid and makes no sense to me either. I know for a fact there are going to be some baseball writers that don't vote for Barry Bonds, Rickey Henderson or Roger Clemens because they feel that they don't deserve the 100% vote, even though those three are among the top 20 players in the history of the game. The same logic is applied to whether a player deserves "first ballot" honours as well.

posted by grum@work at 04:51 PM on January 07

I too was disappointed in the low number of Sandberg votes, even if he was a Cubbie. On baseball-reference.com's HOF monitor, Sandberg scores 157 where 100 is a good possibility and 130 is a virtual cinch. Murray and Carter score 155 and 135 respectively. Trammel is at 119.

posted by mbd1 at 09:31 PM on January 07

*wipes Expos tears* Gary...

posted by qbert72 at 01:46 AM on January 08

there's lots of reasons why someone might miss the HOF on the first ballot. It's just as plausible to think that instead of holding Sandberg off the ballot because he doesn't deserve "first ballot" honors, that perhaps some of the voters don't like to vote too many candidates into the Hall every year. Also, don't for one minute think that the voting isn't heavily influenced by campaigns for the candidates. There's no real point to campaign for someone like Sandberg until he's been refused entry once. We hear more about the campaigns that fail (Ron Santo) or take forever (Mazeroski) then we do about the successful ones. First ballot is meaningful because it shows a near-universal acclamation for that player's place in baseball history. Sandberg doesn't get that kind of respect, and rightfully so in my opinion but he does deserve the HOF and will most likely get there. However, anybody that's upset about Sandberg, rightfully should be 3x as upset about Andre Dawson.

posted by pastepotpete at 08:31 AM on January 10

Great column by Thomas Boswell about Murray in the Washington Post.

posted by pitchblende at 02:49 PM on January 10

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