March 24, 2008

QMJHL mulls sanctions against Roy after brawl : The son of legendary NHL goalie Patrick Roy could face discipline from the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League for his role in an ugly brawl during a first-round playoff game between the Quebec Remparts and the Chicoutimi Sagueneens. Roy coaches his son Jonathan on the Remparts and denies he encouraged the slugfest near the end of the second period in Saturday night's 10-1 thrashing from the Sagueneens.

read story | posted by tommytrump to Hockey at 3:10 PM CDT (29 comments total)

Ahhh, Chicoutimi. These idiots get no sympathy from me.

posted by wfrazerjr at 3:43 PM CDT on March 24

This fight sickened me. I played goal growing up until college and i don't have a problem with a fight but the Chicoutimi goalie didn't come out to fight but was in his crease at the other end. He turtled right away and didn't fight Roy at all. One of the reasons why I have never had a problem with fights in hockey is that normally both guys want to fight. The Chicoutimi goalie didn't want to fight and was attacked by Roy at the supposed urging of his dad. It looked more like and assault to me than a hockey fight and I think both should be suspended for a very long time.

posted by jc at 4:08 PM CDT on March 24

Absolutely could've done without the flicking off the crowd thing.

Chicoutimi goalie didn't come out to fight but was in his crease at the other end.

The article said he was at the blue line.

It looked more like and assault to me than a hockey fight and I think both should be suspended for a very long time.

Were you there or have you seen a video? Please post it, if it's available.

I don't deny that maybe he (Roy) attacked the other goalie, but the details seem to be all over the place. With a 12 player scrums like this, sometimes I feel the officials look for a scapegoat to assess the bulk of the penalty/blame. Roy seems to be that guy.

posted by BoKnows at 5:50 PM CDT on March 24

Chicoutimi goalie didn't come out to fight but was in his crease at the other end.

The article said he was at the blue line.

The article would be lying.

The video clearly shows the goalie skating the length of the ice and shoving the other goalie into the net (pushing it off the moorings).

I don't know if daddy Roy is to blame for this, but baby Roy definitely attacked the other goalie in his crease. It was gutless, especially after it became apparent to everyone he wasn't even trying to fight back.

posted by grum@work at 7:02 PM CDT on March 24

The article would be lying.

The Roy's seem to say that he was at the blue line, that's why I questioned the details. The video answers that question without a doubt, thanks grum. Why the Roy's claim the other goalie enticed him, I'll never know.

I guess their vision in the crease is excellent, out of the crease, it's not so good.

Baby Roy did seem to get a little more excited when he was close enough to his own bench, who knows what Daddy Roy said.

posted by BoKnows at 7:15 PM CDT on March 24

Holy shiat! That video is insane. When Roy chases out to faceoff area the first time, throwing his mask and stick, I think he was clearly enraged and probably where the idea Roy was enticed came about.

Pretty nuts when Roy, acting like he had chilled out after the ref stopped him, goes and wallops the other goalie. Based on that part, complete chicken-shit move on Roy's part. Interesting how one of the Chicoutimi's teammates was going to get Roy, but the ref basically tackled him to stop it. Then, Roy is off fighting another player in the next scene!

Somebody's got a bad temper...

posted by jmd82 at 9:40 PM CDT on March 24

This is all I can think about after watchin' the clip.

posted by Spitztengle at 11:29 PM CDT on March 24

The puck doesn't fall far from the stick. You don't need a DNA test to know this is Patrick Roy's kid.

posted by sandskater at 11:52 PM CDT on March 24

That was a fucking disgrace. Saw the footage on ESPN (of course, the sans hockey network would somehow pick up that footage) and thought, who the hell is that?! Without volume, I had no idea it was Roy's kid, or that he was involved at all. Junior has all the class dad ever had, just less talent, it seems.

And to the league in Spiztengles link, a nice big WTF. Fighting is a part of hockey, sure. But that bullshit league belongs in Alabama, Mississippi, or some other podunk cesspool that doesn't appreciate true hockey, not Quebec or any other proud hockey city. Damn.

posted by tahoemoj at 4:08 AM CDT on March 25

Hey tahoemoj, WTF did you just mean by your last statement? I looked up your bio and it dosn't say where you are from. Where are you from and what gives you the right to call anywhere a cesspool other than where you live right now??? I have never lived in either of those two states but I'm sure a lot of fine people are pretty pissed at you right now. That was some very nasty talk about anywhere hockey or not.

posted by gfinsf at 5:35 AM CDT on March 25

I don't know much about hockey, and even less about Canadian Junior Hockey (hell, I didn't even know it existed until Stephen Colbert started doing reports about the Saginaw Spirit) but what do you expect to happen when fist fights are encouraged in a sport? Certainly, from the video footage, what Roy did was a true jackass move against a goalie who had no interest in the brawl.

But in any other sport, if you were to get into a fist fight, not only would you be tossed for the game, you would likely face a very long term suspension. In hockey, what is it, a 4 minute penalty? I know that fighting is "part of the game" but really, should it be? The central goal of hockey is putting the puck in the net, not physical injury to your opponent like in boxing or wrestling. So why should hockey allow two guys to swing at each other?

Certainly, banning fighting entirely does not mean that it never will never happen. But I feel like if you at least stop encouraging it, then kids (remember, these are kids!) would not feel like they have to go after someone just because its "part of the game". Again, Roy's move was total jackass, but when a youth league allows fighting, you are instilling in kids the idea that doing this shit is okay.

posted by Chargdres at 9:18 AM CDT on March 25

but when a youth league allows fighting, you are instilling in kids the idea that doing this shit is okay.

The QMJHL is no "youth" league, Chargdres. At least, don't confuse it with the amateur recreation leagues at the local YMCA. Youth leagues (ages 5 - 16 and High school) have much heavier penalties and/or suspensions, fighting is very much discouraged, and could lead to a full ban from the respective league/team.

Fighting usually occurs for a few different reasons in hockey. First, to protect your star players from getting bullied on the ice. Second, to give your team momentum (momentum is a major player in hockey, it changes many times throughout any game). And third, which I believe is what happened here, emotions rise when getting beat 7-1, therefore a fight. It doesn't change the outcome of the game, but it might give the winning team something to think about the next time they play your team.

I've been torn on this issue for a long time. I played hockey as a youth through my early adult years. I understand how the emotional part of the game works, and when you factor in the speed of the game, quick decisions, right or wrong, are a must. I enjoy seeing a fight between the tough guys on a team (we all know why they are there), and I enjoy the occasional 10-12 player fights. But even hockey players have ethics, and this incident was a cheap, gutless(and all the other things said) move, not to be associated with the "normal" hockey fight.

posted by BoKnows at 10:42 AM CDT on March 25

Fighting usually occurs for a few different reasons in hockey. First, to protect your star players from getting bullied on the ice. Second, to give your team momentum (momentum is a major player in hockey, it changes many times throughout any game). And third, which I believe is what happened here, emotions rise when getting beat 7-1, therefore a fight. It doesn't change the outcome of the game, but it might give the winning team something to think about the next time they play your team.

First off, when I said youth, I meant that these are not professionals, and below the age who normally play in the highest ranks. My understanding is that it is more like AAU in basketball or even something along the lines of NCAA sports.

Nevertheless, I really don't buy these arguments for why fighting is okay in hockey. If your star is being bullied, then penalties should be called against the offenders. Protecting the "star" should be the job of referees, not players. That's why sports assess penalties in the first place, to allow for a fair flow of the game.

As far as heightened emotions, blowouts happen in every sport, but that does not mean that it gives anyone the right to start brawling. Your argument of it giving them something to think about is ridiculous. Basically it sounds like, "you better not beat us next time we play, or we will punch you in the nose." Fights are outside the normal flow of the game, so they do nothing as far as I can tell but distract from the actual action. In the end, all I am saying is this: if you allow fighting, you should not be at all shocked or surprised when something like this happens.

posted by Chargdres at 11:14 AM CDT on March 25

I'm not saying fighting is right. I'm just saying that I understand why it happens. But, I don't think this article is a reflection of the usual hockey "fight".

Two willing combatants is much different than what happened in this game.

If your star is being bullied, then penalties should be called against the offenders.

If it was baseball, you'd expect someone to get beaned. Players protect their teammates in every sport.

posted by BoKnows at 11:19 AM CDT on March 25

One of the reasons I don't watch hockey... It takes away from the sport of the game...

posted by bruce2ww at 11:30 AM CDT on March 25

One of the reasons I don't watch hockey... It takes away from the sport of the game...

If you don't watch hockey, how do you know what "sport of the game" is supposed to be?

posted by grum@work at 11:50 AM CDT on March 25

gfinsf--gonna have to agree with you that I painted with a pretty broad brush there. I'm sure there are some fine people in the places I mentioned. However, having spent a lot of time a lot of places, I will reserve the right to form my own opinions, misguided or not, about the relative qualities or lack thereof of any place I choose. That was an occasion, we can agree, when I could have kept those opinions to myself. The reference was meant to allude to the relative popularity of entertainment like professional wrestling vs sports like hockey in the places I mentioned. Probably could have made that clearer.

posted by tahoemoj at 12:30 PM CDT on March 25

If it was baseball, you'd expect someone to get beaned. Players protect their teammates in every sport.

And what happens if a pitcher beans a batter? The pitcher is ejected and subject to a suspension which generally will cause them to miss their next start (if he is a starter). In hockey its a 5 minute major? Certainly sometimes players in sports step forward to violently defend their teammates. But usually, this results in serious consequences. In hockey, fights are given what amounts to a slap on the wrist.

The reason most other sports severely punish violent retribution is because of the fear that allowing a little of it will lead to large scale escalations and actions by individuals that cross way over the line. That is what happened in this hockey fight. Perhaps it was not a normal fight, but I believe that the culture of hockey which encourages fighting leads to this type of escalation.

posted by Chargdres at 12:38 PM CDT on March 25

Chargdres, I think my favorite part of this conversation was your first six words.

I don't know much about hockey

Now, you are telling me about the culture of the sport?!

There have been bench clearing brawls in baseball, fans vs. players in basketball, on field fights in football, all stadium riots in soccer, even an all-court knife fight in badminton. (Okay, I made up the last one.) In my opinion, a hockey fight, at least usually, consists of two players, willing to fight (that's their job), one on one. Most guys will remove their helmets and faceshields because they care so much about the other guy's knuckles. I'd accept a hockey fight any day over Pedro Martinez throwing Don Zimmer to the ground. At least a hockey fight is a fair fight.

I respect your opinion on the issue, and I have no intention of swaying your thoughts. But from my perspective (which consists of years of playing/watching hockey), I don't think this article conveys what is known as a hockey fight, as that video is shocking even to me.

You could make the case that hockey fights will lead to escalating behavior. And I could say that because the players police themselves, things are less likely to get out of hand like they do in other sports.

Finally, watch the playoffs this year Chargdres, you will see hockey at it's best. (Yes, there might be a fight or two. But I think you'll see the differences that I'm trying to describe.)

posted by BoKnows at 1:06 PM CDT on March 25

Bo, I was very upfront that I don't know much about hockey. However, I do not think I stated anything beyond the obvious in saying that based on the tacit approval given to fights, there is a culture of fighting in hockey. I did not opine about formations or coaches, I merely was speaking about a single fact which is quite well known.

Again, perhaps it is a fair fight, but two tennis players of equal size could go at each other at the net after an ace, and it still would have nothing to do with the game. Brawls in baseball and basketball are punished by severe penalties, as I am sure Ron Artest could tell you, and soccer riots (and I have actually been in the middle of one of them, tear gas is no fun) have nothing to do with what the players are doing, thus are not governed by the rules of the sport and generally do not spill onto the field of play. I know I will not sway your opinion either, I just wanted to make my point, which was not really hockey specific, but more so about violence in sports in general.

Like every year, I will likely pick up a couple of games in the playoffs, but to be honest, the only hockey games I have found myself enjoying are the games in the Olympics. Not entirely sure why that is, but for some reason I can watch three periods of Czech Republic v. Sweden, but I flip right past Buffalo v. Los Angeles.

posted by Chargdres at 1:28 PM CDT on March 25

Wow. What a total POS move by Little Roy. I hope they slap a good, long suspension on him. He's lucky the other team didn't beat him to within an inch of his life after that gutless move. I don't know him personally, and probably never will, but for the rest of my life, if somebody mentions his name, the word I'll associate with him is, simply, "classless."

posted by The_Black_Hand at 3:55 PM CDT on March 25

... what do you expect to happen when fist fights are encouraged in a sport?

Read Colby Cosh in Canada's National Post on fight etiquette in hockey. There are rules that Roy broke by leaving the crease and attacking a goalie who didn't leave his.

posted by rcade at 10:38 PM CDT on March 25

Thanks to Mr. Cosh for expressing my sentiments, only he did it in completely literate and understandable way. And thank you rcade, for posting it.

posted by BoKnows at 12:50 AM CDT on March 26

With all due respect to rcade and Colby Cosh, etiquette schmetiquette. Roy wanted a piece of Nadeau, and the way Roy tore into him it didn't matter whether Nadeau wanted to fight or not. I saw from the video clip that the punches were repeatedly to his face. The purpose to me wasn't to fight, but to injure, maim, and take Nadeau out of the series. Period.

Thanks for the post though, rcade. I DO agree with the sentiments. Problem is, in the heat of the moment, people don't do things in a game to follow rules, they do it to win at whatever cost. We're in an age where athletes no longer believe that sportsmanship leads to success on the field, but to use and exploit whatever edge you can find, through fair or foul means, even if it means severely injuring an opponent to accomplish that success.

posted by NerfballPro at 1:37 AM CDT on March 26

As disgusting as the whole thing was it was the last punch that borders on criminal. It seemed like he was done then threw that last one at an opening he saw to hurt Nadeau badly. That extra punch deserves a season to me not 7 games.
And would they miss him anyway?
The 19-year-old Roy was near the bottom of the league’s goaltending statistics in the regular season, with a 3-10 record in 22 games and a 3.96 goals-against average.

posted by gfinsf at 8:29 AM CDT on March 26

The 19-year-old Roy was near the bottom of the league’s goaltending statistics in the regular season, with a 3-10 record in 22 games and a 3.96 goals-against average.

Wow. I can't imagine the pressure that kid is getting from his father, and what he must feel like when he fails so miserably (as he must be this season). It's one thing to let down the coach, it's another thing when it's your father, and it's yet ANOTHER level altogether when your father is considered the greatest player in the history of the game at your position.

I'm pretty sure that if Daddy Roy told Baby Roy to take his goalie stick and split the opposing goalie in twain, he would have done it, smiled, and then asked Daddy if he did it right.

Babby Roy needs to be punished, but Daddy Roy needs to be tossed out of the league.

posted by grum@work at 11:37 AM CDT on March 26

Like a sad puppy.

posted by BoKnows at 8:07 PM CDT on March 26

7 games? SEVEN???? I won't pretend to know anything about the QMJHL in particular, nor am I aware of the severity of suspensions handed down by that league in the past, but for that attack to give baby Roy just 7 games...now THAT'S classless. I don't know what number I'd have been okay with hearing but 7??? I'm speechless and a little bit sick.

posted by captaincavegirl at 8:41 PM CDT on March 26

I'm with you, cavegirl. Fighting in hockey is a part of the game when it's two willing participants. That was just an (apparently) unprovoked attack and subsequent beating of an unwilling opponent. All the talk about getting the fighting out of the game is well and good, in theory, but it's shit like that that needs to be dealt with severely and gotten rid of.

posted by tahoemoj at 12:36 PM CDT on March 27

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