04/19/24
December 05, 2003
The trade rumor that won't die.: The Dallas Morning News is reporting that a deal is in place between Texas and Boston that would swap A-Rod for Manny. Cashstrapped Texas gets themselves a shorter [enormous] contract for less money, Boston gets arguably the best player in baseball, moves 'he-who-wants-to-play-for-arch-rivals-but-now-just-wants-to-stay-in-Boston , plus they gain themselves an entirely marketable franchise player who wants to be in Boston and all that comes with that. From some angles, it would seem that all that is left to work out is if money is to be exchanged (local writers/sportstalkers/net geeks say Boston will not pay for Manny)... and there's speculation on what's in place as a trade for Nomar... More inside...
posted by jerseygirl to baseball at 04:01 PM - 23 comments
whoop! whoop! We have an ESPN Insider link! whoop! whoop! Ahem. I tend to agree with you here jersey, with this much talk being exchanged, something has got to give over the coming weekend. Grabbing A-Rod puts the Sox in the unenviable position of unloading Nomah. Current whispers have Nomah going to either the Angels or the Dodgers. The Dodgers! Are you kidding me? I had heard some ramblings thereof but nothing serious. I've given some creedance to the Angel rumors. But the Dodgers? Who would the Sox take? Brown and prospects? Anyone else heard something to this effect? The prospect of having a somewhat consistent hitter in the Blue Crew lineup is exciting to me.
posted by lilnemo at 04:14 PM on December 05, 2003
I love Nomar also (Manny is another story) but if the Red Sox have a chance to pull this off I hope they go for it.
posted by justgary at 04:22 PM on December 05, 2003
The Dallas paper isn't reporting a deal; it's reporting what the Rangers would be looking for in a deal. Let's not get hasty here. I don't want to start hating the Red Sox until it's absolutely necessary.
posted by rcade at 04:26 PM on December 05, 2003
Hey, you're right. I guess I kind of got overwhelmed with the forksclovetofu-ness of all the links i had been accumulating. sorry for the bungle. and here's the Insider, with my apologies. 
posted by jerseygirl at 05:27 PM on December 05, 2003
'Salright. Let their be peace between our peoples until the Red Sox and their gluttonous appetite for players robs me of the only reason left to take joy in my childhood team.
posted by rcade at 06:34 PM on December 05, 2003
Okay, Brown & A-rod for Manny & Nomar. Is that a good trade? It's not clear.
posted by djacobs at 08:21 PM on December 05, 2003
I don't know. I think I'd prefer Anderson and a prospect for Nomar. Manny and ARod is going to be a straight trade (no cash paid towards manny's contract) if it happens.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:34 PM on December 05, 2003
Here's something I've thought about since I heard about this: if the BoSox get Alex Rodriguez, it would be in their best interests not to trade Nomar, but rather to shift one of the two to second base. Think of the power lineup that would be.
Of course, it's likely that neither player would accept such a move, seeing it as a demotion. But it would be the logical way to put the best lineup on the field.
posted by jeffmshaw at 11:23 PM on December 05, 2003
I don't know Jeff. That's the only answer I can think of at the moment. There are so many different scenerios speculated upon: A-Rod plays here, Nomar plays there, Nomar goes but only for this guy, Nomar goes for all prospects, three team deals, etc. I sure as hell would be sad to see Nomar go and honestly, I am a little nervous about this deal and a bit anxious with anticipation. I'd love to see him stay, I just don't know how that's reasonable or possible. There just has to be more going on than what the media is reporting and all of it makes things exciting, scary and compelling (at least to me). I feel like I am signing a mortgage on a really spectacular expensive house that everyone raves about, but I am not sure I want to let go of my old affordable comfortable house either. So here are some updates. From late this evening, The Dallas Morning News asserts that if A Rod wants this badly enough, he'd essentially provide the money Texas wants out of Boston by rearranging his contract a bit. From tomorrow's paper, the Boston Herald is reporting that Red Sox owner John Henry has already met with ARod. No one besides "sources in and out of baseball" will confirm it. and BDD is simply reporting (on the website and on on royal rooters) that some big deal is happening tonight and should be revealed by daybreak. i can't imagine it's the arod-manny deal yet, because nomar would have to be moved first (if that's the plan). this could be the foulke deal, but it's enough to keep me anxious and awake thinking about it. maybe i'll go work off some anxieties by shoveling.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:24 AM on December 06, 2003
barely.slept. as soon as i felt the daylight creep through the blinds, i was up and flipping open the laptop. Hi, I'm jg. and I'm a soxaholic. Here's the first update: Boston Globe's "sources close to both teams" inform us that Nomar may go to Dodgers in a package that includes Odalis Perez... and Perez isn't staying, but going to be traded off to someone else... Why could this work? Because the Dodgers are no longer interested in Little Matsui. It certainly makes the possibility more likely that Nomar Garciaparra will be wearing Dodger blue in just a few short months. That makes me sad even looking at that idea. this opens up a whole new realm of "what if we send Perez to.... for...." if anyone (rcade) wants me to start a new Nomar FPP, I will gladly, but I think since this cog kind of plays into the bigger A-Rod/Manny wheel, it should be included with it... your call.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:27 AM on December 06, 2003
So... I'm actually not sure how I feel about this. A-Rod would be a plum player, but if they get rid of Manny (a bat as good as A-Rod) and Nomar (a glove nearly as good as A-Rod, plus a darn good hitter still), then what are they really gaining? They still haven't improved 2b, etc. The Sox lineup was fearsome last year, but is due for a letdown as some of those career years return to earth; getting rid of two good bats for one doesn't really help the offense, with no immediate upgrade to defense either. Texas desperately wants to get rid of Alex, Manny has issues but is still a good hitter, and Nomar is clearly past his prime- his once .370 hitting wrists have drifted down to more mortal territory, and the difference between him and Jeter is less pronounced (at the plate, at least). So the trade makes sense for both teams, and whomever got Nomar would be thrilled. If A-rod and one of the others (manny or nomar) were still part of the Sox lineup, that'd be different. But if both are gone to get A-Rod... I just don't understand it, unless there are many more trades to come, i.e. the "Perez for..." jg mentioned above. But as Bill Simmons put it, at this point I just have faith Theo & Co. are doing the right thing. All that matters is who ultimately shows up at spring training, and lord knows what that could be at this point. Living in Seattle as I am, though... man, it would suck to be a diehard M's fan right now. Watching Boston making moves like nobody's business... and your GM's big offseason move is Raul Ibanez, who they traded away a few years ago before he got decent.
posted by hincandenza at 02:27 PM on December 06, 2003
Hal, don't get me started on the M's fan tip. Every M's fan I know is tearing their hair out. Now, Bavasi's going after Eddie Freakin' Guardado. A good reliever, sure, but WE ALREADY HAVE ONE OVERPRICED CLOSER. Argh. [/derail]
posted by jeffmshaw at 04:49 PM on December 06, 2003
jeffmshaw and hal - well I'm not tearing my hair out quite yet at least. I applaud the move to bring Ibanez and I still believe the M's are in the Matsui race even if they weren't mentioned in the NYTimes article linked above. You knew the M's wouldn't figure in any A-Rod deals. Not as long as they're still carrying the Cirillo anchor. There has been crazy-ass speculation about Griffey returning to Seatown, if that somehow someway happened that would make both Wynn and Cameron expendable (though they probably choose to keep one anyway...)
posted by vito90 at 06:33 PM on December 06, 2003
A-Rod would be a plum player, but if they get rid of Manny (a bat as good as A-Rod) and Nomar (a glove nearly as good as A-Rod, plus a darn good hitter still), then what are they really gaining? They still haven't improved 2b, etc. If Manny goes straight up for A-Rod, there will be some return, be it pitching, hitting, defense, etc. for Nomar. They most likely could draw either a hitter like Anderson or a second basemen like Kennedy and a pitcher out of Anaheim. I think that this might end up getting way too complex, however, as it seems that the Red Sox need 2-3 deals to get everything straightened out and all their positions filled. Also, is there any hope of Todd Walker coming back or has he already signed elsewhere? I like him a lot.
posted by oem at 07:23 PM on December 06, 2003
GM Stoneman doesn't seem to enamored of Nomah according to Gammons.
posted by lilnemo at 07:45 PM on December 06, 2003
Theo pretty much said the other day on WEEI that Todd Walker wouldn't be back.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:45 PM on December 06, 2003
slight rephrase. Stoneman doesn't like Nomah enought to trade Anderson, or even Kennedy and a prospect much less several. Ooch.
posted by lilnemo at 07:48 PM on December 06, 2003
Just because Nomar has been assumed to want to go west, doesn't mean the Red Sox will hang themselves just to send him west. No one knew about the Schilling deal until it was agreed upon by Arizona last Monday. I still think there's so much we don't know. Yes, it would be convenient to him, and I am sure the Red Sox would like to accomodate him if they possibly can, but you know... got a business to run and all that. Nothing new to report on the local front, nor is there any breaking news from the multitude of message boards either. Just a mind-numbing amount of hypothetical Nomar trades. I will say that the Yankee fans on the yankee board don't get this at all. They seem to think we're trading Nomar and Manny for A-Rod, failing to realize there is a second part of the equation.
posted by jerseygirl at 08:00 PM on December 06, 2003
wow, big up to the JG reporting on this thread. wow.
posted by gspm at 08:07 PM on December 06, 2003
Well, I have some interesting tidbits that will appear in the papers tomorrow. Although the Boston Herald sheds some interesting light in tomorrow's edition. 1. Hicks is reporting that indeed, Red Sox owner John Henry did meet with A-Rod last week with the Rangers' blessing. If you recall, you are not allowed to talk to other teams' players without permission. 2. Apparently, early in 03 during spring training and then again after the ALCS*, the Red Sox tried to negotiate with Garciaparra and his agent, Arn Tellem. Supposedly both times they met, they weren't even in the same ballpark as far as salary goes. It was only after that second attempt at doing a new contract to extend Nomar, that going after A-Rod came to fruition. This must have been what really actually pushed them to put Manny on waivers on 10/30. At the time, it all came out of the blue and we presumed it was entirely based on Manny's behavior/attitude and lifelong wish to wear slimming Pinstripes. *the Red Sox do not, as a rule, do contract negotiations during the playing season. What strikes me about this second revelation is that all day long (on the boards), people have been painting Nomar as an innocent victim of Manny being Manny. That is, "The Red Sox need to get rid of Manny because he's (insert your favorite Manny incident/character flaw/performance issue here). And since they can't play two shortstops, they have to get rid of innocent bystander Nomar." The spike is on the other foot now, it would seem. Maybe Manny, for all the issues pinned on him -- rightfully or otherwise -- is the fallguy for the inability to sign Nomar. If what the Herald is reporting is completely accurate, this puts Red Sox management behind the proverbial 8-ball. They can't sign Nomar apparently and don't want to go into the 04 season knowing he's going to walk away (or at the very least have a heavy upperhand in any further dealings). There's also a slim (and kind of mediocre, IMO) crop of shortstops available for FA at the end of next season. I think it's become a case of jump now or be hung in October. Also, the Red Sox issued the obligatory "We can't talk about anything or anyone, so stop asking, but thanks for your interest. Later!" statement. Again, not tipping their hand at all. In other news, this negotiation could go on until Tuesday. The Star-Telegram is reporting that A-Rod, Boras and Henry sit down again on Tuesday to talk, after Henry returns back from the dedication of the team's baseball academy in the D.R. (where coincidentally, the team starts talks with Pedro for an extension). They recycle Hick's original comments about the Red Sox picking up cash off Manny's salary, that's older news from a few days ago. and finally, the report from the JG WeatherCenter (which is actually dipping a drywall square on my backdeck): 19" of snow and it's going to snow all day tomorrow. watch the Pats game
posted by jerseygirl at 12:03 AM on December 07, 2003
One edit on the mediocre comment. Didn't see Cabrera.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:16 AM on December 07, 2003
This Boston Globe story is similar to the Boston Herald report. It also underscores Theo's comments about Todd Walker and there was an interesting snippit about Selig in there as well. You also have to wonder why someone who has had 2 failed attempts at contract negotiations would shop for a house in the area with his new bride. Maybe he didn't expect them to totally rearrange team structure and go after A-Rod... hell, no one saw that coming did they?
posted by jerseygirl at 01:34 AM on December 07, 2003
Not sure how I feel about it. I’ll really miss Nomar, and to an extent, wacky Manny. But… I’ll thoroughly enjoy having a player that wants to be a face for the team, who will talk to the media, will be out there meeting sponsors… if you have a player who does that, plus is spectacular on the field, the ridiculous contract doesn’t sting so much for the owners. Trade rumors and theories have been tossed around for Nomar, mostly he going west. I’ve heard everything from trading him for prospects, Eckstein, Kennedy, G.Anderson, Mota, K-Rod and various packages therein. I like the Garrett Anderson idea, and am hoping that’s the way it ends up going. What I do know is Red Sox management plays their cards close to the vest. This potential swap has, as ESPN said, been generating a lot of smoke and where there is heavy smoke, there is fire. I suspect something is up, and this may surprise this weekend.