Rigid rules devastating quality of NBA.: Suspensions, synthetic balls and mixed signals - the declining state of NBA gameplay as opinioned by veteran NBA writer Mike Kahn
posted by gradys_kitchen to basketball at 03:51 PM - 26 comments
That is one of the most incoherent articles I've ever read. What does globalization have to do with players leaving the bench? And what does Sonics management have to do with this mess? There are no mixed signals. What we have here are officials making subjective decisions based on objective rules. Its not a perfect system. And all this hand-wringing about "the League" and Stern being misguided is a bunch of crap. These rules have been in place for 10 years now. The teams actually voted to have these rules in place. If they're so horrible why haven't they voted them down, or at the very least, altered the language? Because they work. Players know that the moment they leave the bench, there will be consequences. What is the real argument here? That Stern is so concerned with making money that he's letting quality dwindle? That he's diminishing the quality of the game? No. Wait here it is:
But somewhere along the line, the priorities of the game got lost.
Every rule in this league should be subject to interpretation because every circumstance is at least somewhat different.
posted by lilnemo at 04:20 PM on May 16
In my opinion, the league has gotten more exciting over the past 5-6 years, with all of the limits placed on defenders. Also with the constant influx of international talent, the game is becoming global, and that is a good thing.
posted by yay-yo at 04:41 PM on May 16
This sort of childish behavior is one of the reasons why I don't watch pro basketball. Also all of the hand-wringing and crying about a commisioner suspending players for breaking an established rule that results in suspension is senseless if you ask me. All I can say is Red Sox vs Tigers first pitch live from Fenway at 7:05.
posted by kyrilmitch_76 at 05:15 PM on May 16
That is one of the most incoherent articles I've ever read. What does globalization have to do with players leaving the bench? And what does Sonics management have to do with this mess? Wait, wait, wait. The Sonics are managed? I figured, given their track record in the draft and in signing free agents, that they just wandered through each season like a caribou herd. I'll look into it.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:53 PM on May 16
The NBA has been declining since the 80s,when the sport was so compelling even casual fans and non-fans became excited about Magic and Bird and Michael.They played a better game and the sport was less about hip-hop values.
posted by sickleguy at 07:16 PM on May 16
David Stern enforced the rules that he was supposed to enforce. He claims that he had no other choice - that the rules allowed no exceptions. Then again, for him to say that he was powerless to create a new interpretation of a rule - in this case, what the "bench area" means - is somewhat bogus. After all, isn't this the guy who was powerful enough to impose the synthetic basketball on the league for half a season, despite widespread opposition from the players? But let's not go into that. What really annoys me is that this rule exists in the first place. I can certainly understand the League's concern about violent altercations. Anytime a punch is thrown in the NBA, the video of it is sure to make the rounds at SportsCenter and be blown out of all logical proportion of what it is. However, when those rules fundamentally interfere with the competitiveness and team play of the game itself, they need to go. To paraphrase Bill Simmons, if you play on a basketball team and your best player, the basis of your team's success, gets flagrantly knocked to the ground by an opposing player, is it unusual for you to react by moving toward your teammate, if only for a second or two? Is it wrong? Is it detrimental to the game to have a competitive impulse and a feeling of team solidarity? Add on to this that your best player, the one languishing on the floor, is reaching basketball's equivalent of old age and has serious back problems. I just cannot see how the rule that Stern and the League enforced is valid, especially after seeing the results of its enforcement. And in response to linemo, who asked why the teams haven't voted this rule down yet: I would bet good money that this rule is doomed to be changed in the near future.
posted by JanxMcGanx at 07:43 PM on May 16
Wait, wait, wait. The Sonics are managed? I figured, given their track record in the draft and in signing free agents, that they just wandered through each season like a caribou herd.I'll look into it. All I know is "you can't roller skate in a buffalo herd."
posted by tommytrump at 08:42 PM on May 16
All I can say is Red Sox vs Tigers first pitch live from Fenway at 7:05. Alas, it has been postponed by rain. To look on the brightside there is a doubleheader to look forward to tomorrow.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:09 PM on May 16
I don't know a lot about basketball, but for anyone to write, and believe, that "Every rule in this league should be subject to interpretation because every circumstance is at least somewhat different." is insane. If the players know how something is going to be judged they they can learn to stay within the rules. If sometimes they get away with it, but sometimes they don't, then you have the "he did same thing and nothing happened" argument. Consistency in reffing is all important.
posted by Fence at 03:23 AM on May 17
I was a big NBA fan during the '80s and '90s but I rarely watch anymmore. The talk about the rules ruining the game is absurd. It is the style of play and the ESPN highlight "look at me" attitude of the players that has ruined the game. The constant whining about calls by players and verbal abuse of the refs had to stop. I applauded David Stern and the crackdown on this the past season. It was long overdue. The players knew the rule about leaving the bench area. They left it anyway. I applaud the NBA for having the guts and integrity to suspend these important players during the playoffs. Too many times in the past I have seen players (of all sports) do a suspendable offense during the playoffs only to see them serve it during the beginning of the next season.
posted by patrickm at 05:43 AM on May 17
BTW, Bill Simmons wrote one the best essays on why the instigator rule is bad for hockey I've read. He just happened to be discussing the NBA at the time.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:12 AM on May 17
All I know is "you can't roller skate in a buffalo herd." posted by tommytrump at 8:42 PM CDT on May 16 Nor can you take a shower in a parakeet cage. Or drive around with a tiger in your car. But someone should tell Stern that he can be happy he's a-mind to.
posted by cobra! at 09:25 AM on May 17
The Seattle SuperSonics Select Saer Sene of Senegal /most favorite draft moment ever
posted by chmurray at 09:38 AM on May 17
You can't change the rules in midstream here. Either they are enforced in total or get rid of them. They left the bench therefore rules state one game so the rule was put into action. Regardless of how everyone feels about this situation the league didn't have any choice but to do what it did.
posted by The Old Man at 10:00 AM on May 17
You say Steve Nash's back hurts? How about Horry's back? I'm sure it's hurting even more, after all those taps from Spurs' coaches and players... 'Adda boy... Good job...That's the way to do it'... Next series, let's see... Hmmm, how about Oberto on Boozer, for example? But it has to be done closer to oposing team's bench, so as to make it close to impossible for some of those bench players no to react. Well, practice makes perfect!
posted by gloglu at 10:38 AM on May 17
The Seattle SuperSonics Select Saer Sene of Senegal /most favorite draft moment ever How about Portland taking Joel Freeland - the 19 year old "grocery bagger" from Britain in the first round?
posted by gradys_kitchen at 10:49 AM on May 17
They played a better game and the sport was less about hip-hop values. I missed this thread, so I'm a little late but... What other "values" would you like to see basketball be about? How about NASCAR values. Crash a guy into a wall at 150mph because he cut in front of you while driving in a circle. Or maybe NHL values. Punch a guy in his teeth, split him open until he needs 40 stitches, then only get in trouble for 5 minutes. Or how about baseball. 'You want to crowd the plate huh? Well here is a 90 mph baseball to your fucking skull. Some of you here crying about players leaving the bench in the NBA are the same people who actually get excited when you see 30-40 year old fat, out of shape, relief pitchers running from the bullpen when the benches start to clear at a baseball game. Some of you also might feel like you were cheated when you go to a NHL game and at least 1 fight doesn't break out. Some of you stand up in your house and high-5 your buddies when goalies skate the length of the ice to throw down, then come here and cheer Stern for suspending players who simply got up out of their seats and walked on to the court after seeing their playoff hopes go crashing in to the floor from a body check. Hio-hop values? Save that hypocritical bullshit for someone who buys it.
posted by Bishop at 01:16 PM on May 20
What is Hio-hop?
posted by tommytrump at 01:42 PM on May 20
Hio-hop values? Save that hypocritical bullshit for someone who buys it. posted by Bishop at 1:16 PM CDT You never fail to entertain me Sir Bishop. Thanks again for putting us NASCAR love'in, Hockey hugg'in, Baseball crotch scratch'in, high-5'in folk back on the straight-n-narrow path. We do seem to wonder off the left turning road and run over the hockey players that skate to the mound or batters box to replace them there 30-40 year old fat guys that need to releave themselves simply because some other player got up out of his seat to get a better look at his playoff hopes go crashing into a rather large pile of hypocritical bullshit. ...end rant, misspeling and poor grammer brought to you by my dyslexic brain on oxycodone. +
posted by Folkways at 03:53 PM on May 20
What is Hio-hop? It's a 1 key to the left typo. Did this help you understand what the fuck I was trying to say you bunch of hockey fighting, nascar crashing, baseball brawling simpletons. Fight'in in hockey is a tradition, rubb'in is rac'in, and high heat to the the skull is part of the game. Black men getting up off the bench is an out of control problem that stern better deal with now before it ruins America and our right to have beer as a sponsor on race cars (while people continue to murder others while driving drunk). White guys driving 150 mph with beer names all over their car=good role models, Black guy gets up off bench to come to the aid of white guy=suspension. The subconscious fear of a big black man is astounding. Sorry about the old fat guy wisecrack. Did I hit a soft spot? Now get your arses over to the new Bengal player got arrested thread, or even better, the Cliton Portis defends Mike Vick thread. Now there is some fine discussion. If certain members didn't fear getting banned, I wonder how many times you would see the post "I hate niggers" in place of "Black athlete does something to someone that I don't like".
posted by Bishop at 12:54 AM on May 21
That seems a little over the top there Mr. Bishop. Upon further review, I was thinking it might have some connection to Ed McMahon, but I was simply lookiing for clarification. I was certainly not looking to be attacked on a personal level. Could you please tell me where I've ever said "rubbin' is racin' ", or where I've glorified either hockey fights or head hunting in baseball? I'm curious, because I can't remember ever doing either one. I know I was disappointed that Stern suspended Stoudemire and Diaw. I believe there are plenty of beer commercials aired during NBA games, and advertising for beer and other alcohol advertised in NBA arenas as well, there's not much difference between that and having the ads on a car. You seem to want to turn every issue here at Spofi into a black/white issue. This is a sports site, not a race relations site. Lets all try to keep things in perspective. Now, I've got to head back out to the porch, check the still, and get some whittlin' done.
posted by tommytrump at 01:14 AM on May 21
Black men getting up off the bench is an out of control problem that stern better deal with now before it ruins America and our right to have beer as a sponsor on race cars (while people continue to murder others while driving drunk). How do you get from "Black men getting up off the bench" to "it ruins America and our right to have beer"? White guys driving 150 mph with beer names all over their car=good role models, Black guy gets up off bench to come to the aid of white guy=suspension. The subconscious fear of a big black man is astounding While I can not speak for an entire ethinic population I can say I don't fear big black men any more than I fear big men of any other ethnic background. If certain members didn't fear getting banned, I wonder how many times you would see the post "I hate niggers" in place of "Black athlete does something to someone that I don't like". Are you kidding me? Surely this is a sad attempt at humor. Even though I am not worred about getting baned, saying "I hate niggers" has nothing to do with sports and if there were members makeing that statement the majority of peple here would run them off faster than the PC police, grammer, spelling, geeks could get to their computers. I don't hate any ethnic group and I would wager 99.9% of the SprotsFilter family are color blind as far as sports are concerned. please forgive my off topic ramblings, while I don't comment all that often, I felt compeled to speak out against Bishop's constant bluring of the line between sports and the real world.
posted by Folkways at 11:11 AM on May 21
please forgive my off topic ramblings, while I don't comment all that often, I felt compeled to speak out against Bishop's constant bluring of the line between sports and the real world. Dude, relax. This is an old thread that doesn't seem to be garnering any attention except from us. I'm being slightly over the top with you two because I do think it's funny. majority of peple here, "worred" "compeled" Hey Tommy, why not ask Folks what peple are? Just picking on me because I'm black huh? I don't hate any ethnic group and I would wager 99.9% of the SprotsFilter family are color blind as far as sports are concerned. You have the nerve to mention the "real world" after making a statement like that? What F'n planet do you live on? Now run your arse over to the "Steve Mcnair gets arrested for DUI" thread (WHILE NOT DRIVING A CAR), while I continue to wait for the Tony Larussa DUI thread to open.
posted by Bishop at 12:45 AM on May 23
Anytime a punch is thrown in the NBA, the video of it is sure to make the rounds at SportsCenter and be blown out of all logical proportion of what it is. Anytime a punch is thrown in a sport other than boxing sportscenter is going to show it, and blow it all to hell. while I continue to wait for the Tony Larussa DUI thread to open. Quit waiting, if you want it that bad then post it. You really do turn every thread you are in to a race problem with either somebody here, or the article. As someone above mentioned this is a sports site called sportsfilter, you seem to think of it is as racefilter.
posted by jojomfd1 at 02:50 AM on May 23
Folkways, what are peple? I'm an equal opportunity spellchecker!
posted by tommytrump at 11:52 AM on May 23
jojo, where the hell did you come from? DON'T LIKE WHAT I WRITE? DON'T READ IT. Stop crying about what I do. If you don't like it, move on to something else. None of us forced you to read what is being written. Are you actually trying to tell me what and what not to write?
posted by Bishop at 05:53 PM on May 24
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