UCLA Pulls Off Shocker Against No. 2 USC.: And the BCS Championship Game is up for grabs again.
posted by commander cody to football at 11:10 PM - 56 comments
I'm still pulling for a Ohio State vs Michigan rematch.
posted by commander cody at 11:12 PM on December 02
i'm torn on this one . . . It seems that only losing one game to a tough Auburn team in the most difficult conference in the country gives Florida a legitmate claim to challenge Ohio State. On the other hand, it is hard to discredit a team whose only loss was to the #1 team in the country. Although this topic has worn out its welcome, this scenario is another example of the necessity of a playoff system to give the top team a shot at a title. Whether it's Michigan or Florida who is knocked out of the title game, they will definitely be getting shortchanged. Someone has to get screwed here, which sucks.
posted by brainofdtrain at 12:07 AM on December 03
Let Ohio State play Boise State in a meaningless game. Give Ohio State the Championship and make Michigan play Florida in the Tostitos BCS National Championship Runner-Up Game. Ohio State gets the trophy. Michigan and Florida play in the big game. Everybody's happy. (Barring this scenario, I say no rematch. Let Florida play.)
posted by Aardhart at 12:29 AM on December 03
Crap. That means i have to see Michigan in the title game.
posted by msusportsguy at 12:33 AM on December 03
On the other hand, it is hard to discredit a team whose only loss was to the #1 team in the country. And just barely at that. I know some people don't want a rematch and I'm sure that being a Michigan fan means my opinion is a bit slanted, but it really does come down to the fact that they really are just the 2 best teams in big college ball this year. Though I doubt if Michigan will do any better the 2nd time around either.
posted by commander cody at 12:54 AM on December 03
The front page of ESPN has a SportsNation poll on the right side asking who should play for the BCS Championship, and offering Michigan and Florida as options. They have a map that breaks down the poll by state (showing each state as blue if they voted in the majority for Michigan and red for Florida... read into that what you will). When I checked earlier, the only two states NOT in the southeast that were "red" states were Utah... and Ohio. Also interesting, at that time only 75% of those polled in Florida voted for the Gators, but 90% of those polled in Michigan pulled for the Wolverines.
posted by BullpenPro at 01:17 AM on December 03
Also interesting, at that time only 75% of those polled in Florida voted for the Gators, but 90% of those polled in Michigan pulled for the Wolverines. Maybe FSU and Miami (and FIU, FAU, South Florida and other) fans are more fueled by hate than MSU fans. MSU fans probably would like to see an all Big Ten game, while FSU and Miami fans may just like to see Gator fans suffer. This is only speculation, but I doubt that voting figure says much about the merits of the teams.
posted by Aardhart at 02:19 AM on December 03
I know it won't happen but Ohio state Boise State would be the game I would like to see the most. Boise State would probaly get killed, but you never know, bigger upsets have happened in sports.
posted by Snipes at 02:51 AM on December 03
MSU fans probably would like to see an all Big Ten game, MSU fans would probably behave the same was FSU and Miami fans would, wanting Michigan to suffer.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:24 AM on December 03
Also interesting, at that time only 75% of those polled in Florida voted for the Gators, but 90% of those polled in Michigan pulled for the Wolverines. Probably because a lot of Michiganders retire to Florida (speculation). I know Florida fans will be blowing up the talk shows this morning. Should be some interesting comments.
posted by wingnut4life at 06:27 AM on December 03
The BCS rankings will probably work out pretty much they way everyone expects them too, but here's how I'd like to see it play out: Ohio St. plays Florida and Michigan plays USC. Further down the list, LSU & Louisville, Wisconsin & Boise St., Oklahoma & Arkansas, Auburn & Notre Dame. But yeah, I expect to see a few teams screwed again this year.
posted by ShortyLongstrokin at 07:20 AM on December 03
Michigan looks like a much stronger team to face Ohio State than Florida. I thought the Florida-Arkansas game, while entertaining, was sloppy (and they didn't have the "bad field" excuse to use). I guess I'll be the one to say it, because nobody else seems to dare, but no SEC team really impresses me. I agree the league has competitive teams, top to bottom, but every one of them has some weaknesses. Everyone wants to give a SEC team a spot in the championship game because the league's so tough, but what I've seen this year is a conference full of some fairly-equal teams, but none I would consider national-champion quality. Look at them; Tennessee, Auburn, Georgia? No. Arkansas, (outside of one big pass play yesterday), lacks a real balanced offense (not to mention a Dick for a quarterback and a Nutt for head coach). I also don't see Chris Leak leading Florida to a title game to a win. Obviously, with all that being said, any team can win against anyone else on a given day, like UCLA proved. But just because a team comes out of the SEC doesn't mean the conference, this year, was all that. Those teams will always get the accolades from pollsters during pre-season rankings, and the top few teams will always be in the hunt at the end of the year. That I don't see ever changing. Regardless, I'd still be OK with Florida as a matchup, but Michigan still seems like the second-best team in the country, and I'd dare say that game would be a classic.
posted by dyams at 08:39 AM on December 03
but it really does come down to the fact that they really are just the 2 best teams in big college ball this year exactly. And that's the point of the BCS, to put the 2 best teams together in January, and it generally does that regardless of everyone else's bitching about how [insert your 2nd tier team here] deserves a shot over [insert your 1st tier team here] because they went undefeated or because [1st tier team] had a late season lost whereas [2nd tier team] had a loss at the beginning of the year. Could a Boise team beat Ohio State? Sure (maybe 1 out of 20 times they played them). Could a Michigan team? Yep (maybe 4 out of 10 times). Put the best team against the best team, and the BCS generally does that. BTW - A rematch certaily makes sense to me for 1 reason. Neutral field. It was a good/close game before and it was on OSU's turf. Let's see the rematch with no home field advantage and may the best team win.
posted by bdaddy at 09:11 AM on December 03
i wouldn't consider Florida to be a 2nd tier team. I am somewhat skeptical that michigan would've been undefeated this year had they been in the SEC, as good as they are. humans still have a say in the BCS, so the timing of a loss still matters, and people still get screwed b/c of it. i'm not saying that the bcs system completely sucks (its pretty close sometimes though), but it doesn't put the best 2 teams together in the championship very often i think. maybe we should completely cut out the human element to make it more precise . . . it's those fickle homo sapiens that are ruining the mathematical prefection of the system! i'm just kidding
posted by brainofdtrain at 09:22 AM on December 03
I am somewhat skeptical that michigan would've been undefeated this year had they been in the SEC, as good as they are. Going unbeaten in any conference is difficult, be it the SEC or the Pac 10. Teams can beat the supposed "best" opponents in their respective leagues, then fall on their faces against a team they should roll over. That's why they play the game. It becomes a question of looking at the strengths of all teams involved versus the team they'll likely be matched against in the final and wondering, honestly, if they deserve to be there. One good thing about Florida jumping into the big game is it will mean not having to listen to Urban Meyer. Just think, it will all be decided in several weeks! Just a little over a month to second-guess and hype it all out of all sense of proportion.
posted by dyams at 09:39 AM on December 03
Ohio State vs.Florida and Michigan vs.team X. Florida ekes out a 1 point victory filled with controversy and Michigan blows X away. Gators and Wolverines co-champions? This is what happened the last time Michigan was #1(with Nebraska).
posted by sickleguy at 09:41 AM on December 03
If we see Ohio State and Florida it will be just to see Ohio State blow them out. At least Michigan stands a chance as they showed earlier this year.
posted by livewire at 09:57 AM on December 03
Michigan had the 3rd toughest schedule this season, Florida the 8th. Michigan lost to #1, Florida to a then #11 Auburn. Leave your hearts out of this. Who are the two best teams in NCAAF this year? Ohio State and Michigan. Any other game will be unfair to UofM, and expect lawsuits if it happens, because it will be the voters that gave it to Florida ... not the "fair" system they tried to set up in 98. This is reason #45,678 why they need to blow up the BCS.
posted by smithnyiu at 10:38 AM on December 03
I don't see how Michigan deserves another crack at Ohio State this year. The game wasn't as close as the final 42-39 score -- Ohio State was up by 11 with five minutes left and won every phase of the game, statistically. I think we should be seeing Ohio State vs. Florida. But I join those who want a real playoff.
posted by rcade at 11:26 AM on December 03
rcade: re: UM/OSU, don't forget the two fumbled snaps. Those won't happen again, and without them, OSU would have been up 18-25 instead of 11. That said, if there were a playoff, UM/OSU would have been, well, a lot less interesting. The regular season was a playoff.
posted by tieguy at 11:30 AM on December 03
Michigan had the 3rd toughest schedule this season, Florida the 8th. Huh? Where are you getting those figures? That's not true at all. this column has some facts about the schedules. Not all of his points are valid (he overweights the significance of the ranking at the time of the game), and #8 is just immature and discredits him, but it's pretty obvious that Michigan's schedule pales in comparison.
posted by Bernreuther at 11:30 AM on December 03
What a let down from my Trojans yesterday! Such a dispiriting game to watch, right to the interception with a minute before the bitter end. Honestly, even if they'd held on and gotten the last second TD for the win I wouldn't have been that upset if Michigan or Florida moved ahead of them in the final ratings. In many ways this game typified the whole season with slow starts, feeble offense and decent but not great defense. The one silver lining is that so many of the players are young, freshman or sophmores, and so we ought to be right back in the title mix next year. I don't think Ohio State, Michigan or Florida can say the same. For this year's title game my vote goes to Florida if only because a Michigan win will inevitably bring out the whole 1-1 argument and I'd rather have a settled answer. Though honestly I don't see either UM or UF beating OSU.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:43 AM on December 03
I keep going back and forth. First, I think you should win your conference to have a shot at the Title so it should be Florida. I mean, the NFC gets a team in the Super Bowl this year even though there are probably more deserving teams in the AFC. But then I think, even in the NFL there are years where a one team beats a team in the regular season, but then loses to that team in the Super Bowl. The Eagles beat the Raiders in the '80 season but lost to Oakland in Super Bowl XV. As for who played a better schedule or which conference is better... Here's a line from a local columnist here in Central PA that I found amusing... The SEC is fatter at the bottom than its residents. It is no better or worse "top to bottom" than three other conferences -- the Pac-10, the Big East and the Big Ten. But its propaganda operates on the same principle as Karl Rove -- tell the same lies over and over and people will start to believe them. -David Jones, Harrisburg's Patriot News.
posted by SummersEve at 12:01 PM on December 03
Where are you getting those figures? I got it here. Oops, had Florida #8, supposed to be #6.
posted by smithnyiu at 12:06 PM on December 03
For this year's title game my vote goes to Florida if only because a Michigan win will inevitably bring out the whole 1-1 argument and I'd rather have a settled answer. Well, it'd certainly confine the BCS to the irrelevance that it continues to demand. I bring my British sensibility here: either you have a proper balanced league, which is impossible in the college system, or you have a pure knockout format and celebrate the upsets when they occur. But let's accept that people like having the capacity to argue which college team was the best in a particular year, and embrace the inconclusiveness.
posted by etagloh at 12:07 PM on December 03
UM/OSU, don't forget the two fumbled snaps. Those won't happen again, and without them, OSU would have been up 18-25 instead of 11. I'm tired of hearing the IF's. There were plays on both sides that if something different had happened, the game changes. Crable's late hit is a good example. OSU won by three, no more no less.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:22 PM on December 03
UF went to #2 in the coaches poll... the rest of the afternoon should be really interesting.
posted by tieguy at 01:11 PM on December 03
I hate the BCS, and also want playoffs... But at least we do get #1 vs #2. We can all disagree on who's number two, but sans BCS, USC would still be playing Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. Florida would be headed to the Sugar Bowl to play who-knows-who. Imagine that mess. Now that I've sort of defended the BCS, I'm going to go bathe in turpentine until my skin falls off.
posted by SummersEve at 01:47 PM on December 03
The SEC is fatter at the bottom than its residents. It is no better or worse "top to bottom" than three other conferences -- the Pac-10, the Big East and the Big Ten. But its propaganda operates on the same principle as Karl Rove -- tell the same lies over and over and people will start to believe them. Thanks for that link, SummersEve. It said exactly what I was trying to point out with my comment, only much, much better. You can't hardly listen to a college football program without listening to that same, lame SEC hoopla. It's about time people started looking at it a bit more realistically. Good, yes, but not the be-all, end-all of football as we know it. Plus, did anyone doubt Florida would leapfrog to number two, over idle Michigan, with a win and a USC loss? I thought that was a foregone conclusion.
posted by dyams at 01:54 PM on December 03
So if OSU plays Florida in Glendale and loses to them and UofM plays USC in the Rose and wins, then you have Florida at 13-1, OSU at 12-1 and UofM at 12-1. And all of them screaming that they're the National Champs and all able to make a good case for that. What a mess!
posted by commander cody at 01:59 PM on December 03
You set up a National Championship game between two teams, the winner is the champion regardless. Case closed.
posted by dyams at 02:05 PM on December 03
If UF beats OSU, I'm not sure how UM makes a good case that they are champs. They lost to OSU, and were handled fairly capably- OSU had 20% more yards, nearly 50% more first downs, more passing, more rushing, and all that despite three turnovers. They had their shot; they had it late in the season when both teams were playing at full strength and to the fullest of their capabilities; and they got handled. (What blows my mind is all the people arguing for a playoff who are also arguing for a rematch. We had a national championship semi-final this year; that it was called a regular season game should be irrelevant. Michigan lost the semifinal- they got eliminated. This shouldn't be hard to figure out.)
posted by tieguy at 02:36 PM on December 03
Deadspin has a link to this onion story. I think Tieguy'll like it.
posted by SummersEve at 02:51 PM on December 03
and they got handled. What game were you watching? First downs mean nothing without comparing them to key 3rd down stops. Total yards mean nothing. It was a great game, and when OSU got ahead, Michigan came right back. OSU was one set of downs away from losing that game. Nobody got handled. But OSU did win, and that's all that matters. They were the better team that day.
posted by smithnyiu at 02:53 PM on December 03
(shrug) I think people wanted it to be a classic, and so they saw it as one; it was the most anti-climactic three-point game I can ever recall watching. Either way, it doesn't matter- it was a semi-final and they lost. You want your playoff? You got it.
posted by tieguy at 02:56 PM on December 03
MSU fans would probably behave the same was FSU and Miami fans would, wanting Michigan to suffer. Georgia votes 76% Florida, making it more Florida than Florida. Bulldog fans differ from FSU & Miami fans in that they have SEC conference pride. If Bulldog fans are voting Florida, I find it likely MSU fans are voting Michigan. (And retired Michiganders in Florida. And Michigan is a more national school with more dispersed alums.) That's my story. I'm sticking to it. How much weight does the BCS give to ESPN polls and Sports Filter threads? Even though "SEC football is a lot like its fans -- insular and not very bright" according to SummersEve's link, I still oppose a rematch.
posted by Aardhart at 03:00 PM on December 03
We had a national championship semi-final this year; that it was called a regular season game should be irrelevant. Michigan lost the semifinal- they got eliminated. This shouldn't be hard to figure out. Using that logic any team that has one loss shouldn't be allowed to play OSU and we should just hand them the Championship now. After all FSU "got handled" earlier in the season as much as UofM did in the last game at OSU, maybe more so. The fact that it was a loss to Auburn, if anything, should be another reason to keep them out of the title game because UofM's only loss was to #1 OSU. The fact that UofM lost late in the season is as meaningless as if they'd lost on a sunny day as opposed to a partly cloudy day or a game that started at 10am or 1pm. The time of the regular season you lose is not as important as who you lost too, how badly and how well you won the games you did, because it's not a playoff game. Got to be of UofM vs OSU game or Michigan gets screwed, even worse the FSU does for not getting the bid.
posted by commander cody at 03:29 PM on December 03
After all FSU "got handled" earlier in the season ... To which of their SIX losses are you referring? Commander Cody, do you watch college football? You keep making a mistake that I find really surprising coming from a UofM Spartans fan and which undermines the point of your posts on college football.
posted by Aardhart at 03:53 PM on December 03
Why the hell are you people talking about FSU? What does Florida State have to do with any BCS conversation?
posted by dyams at 04:08 PM on December 03
For what it is worth, AP is saying that UF is #2 in both human polls, so it looks like barring surprises from the computers it'll be OSU-UF. (And let me third that point above: if you can't tell the difference between UF and FSU, you may not be qualified to participate in this discussion. Or perhaps you should work for ESPN. Or perhaps both.)
posted by tieguy at 04:15 PM on December 03
(Tangentially, espn.com's front page poll on this subject has 522K votes right now- I've never seen a web poll crack 200K before, that I can remember. That is insane.)
posted by tieguy at 04:25 PM on December 03
(Doh, forgot AP is no longer used. Ignore that post about surprises from the computers.)
posted by tieguy at 04:34 PM on December 03
LA Times reports that it's Florida to play OSU.
posted by Aardhart at 04:55 PM on December 03
Opps....Florida...my bad.....hey...shit happens
posted by commander cody at 05:12 PM on December 03
Besides, I know what I meant and that's all that matters.
posted by commander cody at 05:14 PM on December 03
I agree with tieguy. Although the final score did not reflect it, I did not feel like the UM-OSU game was that close. I'm not a fan of either and had no rooting interest other than wanting to see a good game. It seemed to me that OSU played sloppy late, but I never got the feeling that they might lose. Just didn't seem that close.
posted by louisville_slugger at 05:14 PM on December 03
I think Florida probbly has a lot more people who hail from out of state living there than Ohio, which is my guess as to why the percentages are different
posted by Adept at 05:35 PM on December 03
You know, figuring out who is more deserving is ultimately impossible since all involved could never agree on critieria to judge that (maybe there isn't). This is why we need a playoff, b/c at least then everyone would have a shot to win. Still wouldn't be completely fair, but it's the closest we will get. So to sum up, although i think Florida should get teh nod, ultimately it is a pointless argument.
posted by brainofdtrain at 05:51 PM on December 03
Well I guess its official from an L.A. Times report on ESPN. Ohio State vs Florida in the Championship Game. Of course nobody new for sure, but I think alot of people pretty much felt that it was going to be Florida. So much for all the hype. Let the bowl games begin. Just add more fuel to the fire as far as a playoff format be put in place.
posted by Ghastly1 at 06:52 PM on December 03
This BCS show is making my head hurt. Just a ton of over-produced clips with really lame blabber between. So excited college football is on Fox. I hope they bring the robots.
posted by SummersEve at 07:08 PM on December 03
For those of you without access to a TV (you're lucky), Florida's in the title game.
posted by SummersEve at 07:14 PM on December 03
it was the most anti-climactic three-point game I can ever recall watching. Finally someone with a pair. I thought the game was pretty much over at half-time. Michigan made a nice little run, but OSU HANDLED them. I'm not saying that UofM shouldn't play OSU again, because they probably are the two best teams, but OSU is just way better than anyone else.
posted by yay-yo at 08:57 PM on December 03
'm not saying that UofM shouldn't play OSU again, because they probably are the two best teams No one at the basketball final four says 'Hrm, the two best teams accidentally played on saturday, you know what? I think they should play again on Monday.' Sometimes the second best team doesn't get to play in the final if they've already lost to the best team- that is how it works. This year of all years the system seems to have worked out decently well, IMHO.
posted by tieguy at 09:09 PM on December 03
Politics aside- why the hell is Notre Dame in any major bowl game? They got shellacked against the only two ranked teams they played. I guess all the catholics ( I am one, so don't start the racism or religious thing) need them to be in a major bowl. Oops...they did beat Army AND Navy, I guess they are deserving. Oh, and Brady Quinn is awful cute. I guess they are deserving.
posted by urall cloolis at 09:51 PM on December 03
Oops...they did beat Army AND Navy, Don't you dare forget Air Force, Stanford, and North Carolina.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:42 AM on December 04
The whole BCS and coaches poll is BS!! Tell me how teams that lose against lesser ranked teams jump teams that the only loss came to the number one team in the nation and only by 3 at that? USC has Loss Not once but now twice against teams that are not ranked at all. Florida was ranked 2 and lost against auburn which was ranked lesser then them I believe they were not even in the top ten. And then you have Michigan and their only loss came to Ohio St. which was #1 and by only 3 go figure on that!! Get rid of the BCS and shorten the schedule and take the top team in each division and have a damn playoff. The leagues will probably see more money that way anyway. And the Fans will be much more happier and then we can all find out who is the true champ!!! Plus it is not fair for teams like Boise st. which have weak schedules and kill everybody and they don't get a chance. And I hope Michigan kills USC and I hope Ohio st. kills Florida. GO BIG TEN!!!!
posted by ksl_raidersfan at 12:13 PM on December 04
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