04/19/24
September 10, 2003
Can a coach give a player heart?: Lamar Odom says that the Heat will help him realize his potential. Can any coach provide the heart that a player lacks? Can Riley help Odom realize his potential? Does anyone else remember the game winners that Odom hit at URI, that Odom was the early leader for ROY over Brand and Francis back in 99', the way that Odom took over the Rookie/Soph game in 99' scoring every big bucket? Odom was one of a handful of guys who could take care of bizzness at crunch time; T-Mac's equal back in High School. What happened? How good can he be in Miami? How good (or bad) will he be in Miami?
posted by Mike McD to basketball at 03:27 PM - 11 comments
Riley can get players to play at a higher level. He just can't get them to stay there. This often inflates their real value, see Charlie Ward, Anthony Mason, and Anthony Carter.
Obviously, having posted on the topic before, I have followed this pretty closely. And what makes this situation sad for me, aside from the fact that he left some unfinished business here in LA, is the fact that he and Riley really believe this change of scenery will turn things around. Now I'm all for a happy ending for Lamar, Riles, and the Heat. I just don't see it happening. Riles presses hard on his players, and leans on their talent, ultimately wearing them down. Especially younger players (see Ricky Davis). I think Lamar is too used to being unquestioned on the court (in terms of his decisions with the ball), Riley has stated for about 2 or 3 years now that he's going to give the young guys space to make mistakes, to do their thing. It never lasts though. Prior to going to the Heat Eddie Jones was a serviceable SG, a steady scorer, able to fill the lane, and a ball-hawk on defense. A great open court player. Since coming to the Heat he has been relegated to trying to bail out meticulously called offensive sets, and is not as highly regarded on defense as he was here in LA because Riles refuses to allow him to gamble on defense (even after learning at the feet of John Chaney!) which had been his bread and butter. Obviously Eddie can't gamble with the quality of big men guarding the bucket, but at a certain point you have to try something new.
I think Lamar is in for a shock.
posted by lilnemo at 05:02 PM on September 10, 2003
I see him as a 15/7/7 kinda guy - totally valuable when surrounded with the right people, or totally worthless when not. When you look at the talent he had around him last year (granted he was hurt a bit), I'm leaning towards worthless. Riley isn't too kind with the 'baller' mentality. We'll see who lasts longer. Has the Riley mystique officially passed it's best before date? What's the big deal with this guy now? And is Brian Grant's deal in the top ten of worst long-term signings ever? (I think Big Country Bryant Reeves takes the chowder on the number 1 spot - Sam Bowie just never made enough money to qualify).
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:48 AM on September 11, 2003
Has the Riley mystique officially passed it's best before date? Most indubitably. Any list of worst long-term signings ever has to include both Vin Baker and the man Seattle traded for him, Shawn Kemp. I really don't get it though. If signing for $80 mil makes you not hungry anymore how come those two motherfuckers got so fat?
posted by vito90 at 12:27 PM on September 11, 2003
I think Odom will be a bust. Although I really like him I don't think he has the dedication to be a really great player. Just from his interview, anyone who is looking for a new team to make the difference is looking in the wrong place.
Furthermore, the only coach that I think actually made players better was Jimmy Johnson and that's because he scared the heck out of his players. I remember Michael Irvin tell a Jimmy Johnson story. There was some memoribilia that was stolen out of one of the Cowboys lockers. Johnson called a team meeting and said something to the effect of "whoever stole that memoribilia has until this afternoon to turn themselves in. If you don't do it by the end of today you will end up out of football because I will find out who did it, then I will cut you, and then I will call every GM in the NFL and tell them that you are a no-good lousy person who steals from his teamates and you will never play in the NFL again." Unfortunately, Johnson's effect on his players wore off when he wasn't around constantly.
posted by Mike McD at 12:55 PM on September 11, 2003
I don't know that Sam Bowie was ever deemed healthy enough to command a big salary.
posted by lilnemo at 04:18 PM on September 11, 2003
Slightly OT. Thank God "Big Games" James Worthy got into the hall. I had to admit it didn't look good for awhile, but the voters came through. I always thought James was the quitessential forward. Right up there with Karl Malone. Odd choice now that I think of it, considering how completely different their playing styles and careers have been.
posted by lilnemo at 04:21 PM on September 11, 2003
And is Brian Grant's deal in the top ten of worst long-term signings ever? I don't even think he's in the top three right now. Raef LaFrentz and Shawn Bradly have to be #s 1 and 2 right now. For the combined money, the Mavs could've had a Kevin Garnett or Chris Webber. Bah. I think Grant could be a very good asset on a good team. He just isn't a #1 or 2, or possibly even 3 scoring option. Dude can play defense and rebound though. Plus he's got a Bob Marley tattoo, which woos me like none other. The Riley mistique is gone. He began losing it in NY and has slipped almost into oblivion with a team that hasn't done shit, well, ever. All of his numbers are screwed now, he's proven that his coaching can't help an okay team be good or a good team be great. And once he's out of Miami, he'll be lucky to get a job coaching anywhere in the NBA. And yes, congrats to Worthy.
posted by Ufez Jones at 06:17 PM on September 11, 2003
I don't think Grant should have left Sacramento. Everything went downhill the moment he signed with the Blazers.
posted by lilnemo at 09:09 PM on September 11, 2003
Nice follow-up on l'affaire Odom. And if he thought there was temptation in SoCal, whoo, wait till he gets a load of South Beach. Good luck Lamar.
posted by lilnemo at 02:05 PM on September 15, 2003
And speaking of Riles... looks like he "may" be looking into acquiring Oakley. Van Gundy is said to be kicking the tires as well. But it's only a blurb. And in the NY Post to boot, so who knows. Let's hope both Riles and Van Gundy leave well enough alone. They both have young developing teams. And if Oakley has shown anything over the last 3 or so years, its that he has no business on a team looking to develop their young players.
posted by lilnemo at 02:11 PM on September 15, 2003
Bah. I'm not sure it matters. Odom's no Jordan. He'll need superstars around him, even in a crappy East if Miami wants to make the Finals. I have never, ever believed in the Heat franchise since Riles took over. He didn't do jack in NYC, the only thing he accomplished was winning a handful of titles on a team with
twoTHREE (congratulations James Worthy!!!) Hall of Famers. Riles is good at juggling talent but has never shown an ability to get guys to play over their heads.