04/23/24
February 27, 2002
Schumacher second best driver ever: according to Murray Walker, "...conceivably number one, with several years of his career still to go."
Oh my, what a tough call... Why do they keep asking these questions to poor old Murray? I didn't know he retired, we'll all miss him dearly. By the way, is this ("Trying to objectively asses the ability and greatness...") a typo or what?
Back on the subject at hand, I'm really too young to even think about the best driver ever. I started following F1 when I was 6, when Gilles Villeneuve began throwing the Ferrari around, and I still believe that Gilles is the most enjoyable driver I've seen. That 79 Dijon finish against Arnoux is just unbelievable.
But I have to agree that if you measure greatness in actual domination, points, championships and all that, Schumacher is the most impressive I have seen.
posted by qbert72 at 12:06 AM on February 28, 2002
asses looks like a typo to me too.
Murrary retired from ITV's commentary team at the US GP last year. Supposedly he did retire, but there have been rumours he will be commenting on a digital broadcast in the U.K. One of the reasons he retired is because he is too old and makes way too many mistakes. Not just his usual Murrayisms (Well he's world champion, and we only get one of those a year & Looking good for his 8th win of the year, which would make him World Champion for the third time. But let us not count any Ferrari chickens before they are hatched) either.
posted by riffola at 01:15 AM on February 28, 2002
While Michael brings in some intangibles into his team and a remote case can be made that he has won with cars others have not found a way to drive to the top of the podium, I don't know if breaking the "Fangio Barrier" is what will define him as the best ever.
Ferrari drivers managed to win exactly twice (Berger: Germany 1994; Alesi: Canada 1995) and finish on the podium 11 times between the 6 wins-14 podiums 1990 season and the 3 wins-9 podiums in 1996, Schumi's first with the outfit. Was it the car? Or was it the drivers? Were Prost, Alesi, Morbidelli, Capelli, Larini and Berger not up to the challenge? I guess Ferrari was contractually obligated to give Italians: Morbidelli, Capelli and Larini a ride, and Alesi and Berger were, well, "Alesi and Berger." Prost drove his heart out. He went from a contender in 1990 to an also ran in 1991. Ferrari could not keep up with the Honda/Renault assault. I fault the car. Schumacher has 4 championships in 11 years (1991-2001) while Jackie Stewart won 3 in 9 years (1965-1973) and Fangio won 5 in 9 years (1950-1958). Prost had 4 championships in 14 years (1980-1993).
While not "greatest ever," the best driving in one race in the 90s has to be Damon Hill in Hungary in 1997. He qualified his Arrows third on the grid after Schumacher and Villeneuve; led for 62 laps; and came in second only after his Yamaha engine gave out and Villeneuve had to drive on the grass to pass him. I'd like to see Schumacher drive like that with an underpowered car.
I think Jackie Stewart is the best driver of all time. He won driving similar cars with the same engine as everyone else who were winning at that time. Fords won 66 raced and 6 Driver's Championships of the 9 years that Stewart raced in F1*.
[Stewart drove in 1965-1973, while Ford's statistics are from 1967-1973.]
posted by tamim at 03:20 AM on February 28, 2002
Yes, tamim, that was a great and memoriable drive by Damon at Hungary. Another great drive of his was in the rain in 1994 at Suzuka. As for Schumacher, no doubt he is a great driver, but it's hard to compare when his teammates don't get the same equipment or support, and when cars are designed specifically for him to drive. Give Montoya or Hakkinen the other Ferrari seat and equal support, and then we'll talk about how great Schumacher is.
posted by gyc at 03:26 AM on February 28, 2002
Spa '96 had Schumi driving an underpowered car and winning. I agree that Hill was amazing in Hungary in '97.
posted by riffola at 04:18 AM on February 28, 2002
Personally I think people don't value Fangio's achievements as they should (51GPs, 24 wins, how can you beat that?). Although Fangio himself claims Jim Clark was the best driver.
posted by riffola at 04:31 AM on February 28, 2002
Personally I think people don't value Fangio's achievements as they should
I definitely agree with that.
I really don't think you can compare Schui and Fangio fairly, just on the basis of different eras and machinery.
That being said, put Schui, Prost, Senna, Fangio, Ascari, Andretti, Mansell, Graham Hill, and Moss in the same F1 machinery....probably Fangio will still kick all their butts into next week (and I say this with a heavy pro-Prost bias).
What I'd REALLY like to see is how you quantify "the greatest driver, PERIOD" across all forms of racing (F1, NASCAR, Indy, sports car).
You have your Petty, Earnhardt, Gordon in NASCAR....Foyt, Andretti, Phil Hill, Moss as guys who succeeded well in multiple forms....Schu, Prost, et al in F1. Geez, my head spins thinking about it.
posted by PeteyStock at 10:44 AM on February 28, 2002
My vote is Clark, Senna, Schumacher...
Most versatile? Either Striling Moss, Brian Redman, or Dan Gurney.
My dad was doing vintage racing in Canada in the eighties when I was in high school. We went to a race in Ontario and Stirling Moss was the guest of honor.
Moss got into someone else's Formula One Cooper from the early sixties, and within two laps had knocked two seconds off of the owner's best time around the dinky 1.5 mile Shannonville track, all in a car he had never driven before.
Amazing...
posted by machaus at 08:58 PM on February 28, 2002
Murray Walker has been commenting on F1 races for about half a century. He retired last year.