FanDuel - WFBC

July 16, 2008

Clemens back in the news again. Does anyone believe him now?: A package sent to his home? Who signed for it?

posted by scuubie to baseball at 05:06 PM - 13 comments

I guess Roger discovered that he can run roughshod over his wife after the sexual misconduct allegations, so why not try to pawn the HGH off on her as well. Does it matter who really signed for it? Even if it wasn't McNamee, what is the Clemens family doing securing a controlled substance from Radomski for ANY use? I have a hard time believing that Roger's wife had a legitimate medical need for the HGH for a swimsuit layout. Looking at this newest information it seems we have quite a bit of what we need to go to trial to convict Roger in the court of public opinion. A witness who 'claims' to have participated in the event (be he of questionable character or not). Evidence that Roger has lied about actions and whereabouts during damning events (was at the party; wasn't at the , testimony recanted under oath, etc.). Medical evidence in the form of used needles for HGH injections (never heard about the DNA results - did you?). New evidence that that Roger had received, on at least one occasion, at his home, the drug in question during a time of alleged use. Accused has shown to be of questionable character with regards to family fidelity and oath sworn testimony. Appears this new information may be the fingerprints on the smoking gun. Although all circumstantial, he is not being charged with a capital crime, just cheating and lying about it.

posted by knowsalittle at 06:24 PM on July 16

Roger is now claiming it was the Green Bay coaches and GM that forced him into steroids.

posted by dyams at 08:06 PM on July 16

Roger is now claiming it was the Green Bay coaches and GM that forced him into steroids LOL. Gotta love it... I did notice that both during the HR Derby and the All Star Game that there were only a few quickly dismissed passing comments about both Bonds and Clemens (and very little about Sosa and McGwire during the Derby). It almost seemed as though MLB had possibly told ESPN and Fox to do their ostrich impersonations, and bury their heads in the sand on these stories. I for one was glad, whether it was mandated or not. Based on the weekly comments from Bond's agent, and the most recent revelations about Roger, maybe we can begin moving on from giving these 'alleged' users any more of our time. I was glad Aaron got a noticably loud cheer from the NY fans. I was hoping for a chant of "still the king", but I knew it wouldn't happen.

posted by knowsalittle at 09:55 PM on July 16

Radomski turned over shipping receipts that he claims were shipments of HGH to Clemens. How do shipping receipts prove what was actually sent?

posted by bperk at 11:25 AM on July 17

The shipping receipts of themselves don't prove use, but they certainly corroborate the testimony from Brian McNamee and Kirk Radomski; that Radomski shipped them and McNamee injected them. It might be interesting to note that Radomski was sentenced to five years probation and a fine after he pleaded guilty to distributing steroids and laundering money. That was the deal in return for his testimony. McNamee only acknowledged injecting Clemens with steroids and human growth hormone after federal authorities told him they had sufficient evidence to send him to prison for distributing controlled substances. He has not been charged with any crime to this point.

posted by irunfromclones at 12:17 PM on July 17

What I didn't understand from the article was that the shipping receipts confirmed dates... that it is alleged HGH was used by Debbie Clemens in preparing for some SI photo shoot.

According to the sources, the timing of the shipment to Clemens' Houston home coincides roughly with the dates when Clemens' wife, Debbie, used human growth hormone in preparation for her participation in a pictorial in the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. They also expect the evidence to corroborate McNamee's claims that Clemens was behind his wife's use and was present when McNamee injected her just after the drugs arrived at the couple's home.
Wait... what the heck does that matter? So these receipts at best confirm HGH was sent to the Clemens' home when Debbie was using HGH (which isn't illegal, is it? I seem to recall HGH been pitched in store windows over the last decade or so). Is Clemens' perjury indictment because he lied about ever being near or buying HGH, or using it? Because this article doesn't claim to prove he used it- we're still relying on McNamee's testimony for that. It seems kind of Clintonian; push hard enough with big show trials, catch someone in a lie or even mis-statement, then bust them for that. I'll be honest, I don't know enough about the Clemens case to be sure, but from my brief reading of the Wikipedia page we have:
  • Jose Canseco claiming Clemens had an "expert" knowledge and "probably" used steroids- which seems sketchy, maybe Clemens had an expert knowledge and thus decided to not use them
  • Jason Grimsley naming Clemens and Pettitte as users- but apparently due to them having the same trainer that supplied Grimsley with amphetamines, anabolic steroids, and HGH. That trainer, McNamee, initially denied that Pettitte and Clemens used any drugs.
  • Pettitte would later admit to using HGH- only- twice to aid in healing, and that he thought he heard Clemens claim to use it. Clemens claims Pettitte misheard, and that it was about his wife's usage.
  • In the Mitchell report, McNamee claims to have injected Clemens with Winstrol (which according to Wikipedia is an orally-ingestible steroid)
  • In January of this year, Clemens publicly denied all steroid use, and filed a defamation suit against McNamee. In February, he repeated his denial under oath. The house committee involved with the Mitchell report suggested his apparent inconsistencies in testimony be investigated.
So from what I've read, it sounds like there are some suspicious activities- the abcess, the inconsistent testimony, the claims pretty much solely by McNamee that he injected Clemens (although if he's injecting Clemens, then why would Clemens get HGH shipped to his house?)- but still no proof he did steroids or even HGH. There's no medical proof, no failed drug tests, and only the claims of one person that he injected Clemens with HGH a couple of times (as he did with Pettitte, who's since corroborated McNamee on that account). I'm no great Roger Clemens fan- he's a schmuck- but he's probably among the greatest pitchers of all time, and from day one had a legendary workout routine like his idol Nolan Ryan who also pitched well into his 40's. It's actually entirely possible he really hasn't done steroids, or even HGH (and at that, not HGH regularly). At worst, if he took HGH shots, they weren't against MLB rules at the time and only illegal if there was no prescription.

posted by hincandenza at 03:06 PM on July 17

Clemens back in the news again. Does anyone believe him now? : A package sent to his home? Who signed for it? Thou shalt not editorialize in a front page post.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:02 PM on July 17

It might be worth noting that Radomski just happened to find these receipts while dusting under his tv set.

posted by irunfromclones at 04:38 PM on July 17

In the Mitchell report, McNamee claims to have injected Clemens with Winstrol (which according to Wikipedia is an orally-ingestible steroid) probably shouldn't rely on Wikipedia for medical information. A quick search of Winstrol found the following. Winny comes in two forms, an injectable form and an oral form. Both are equally popular and both are to be used daily. The injections are the same compound as the orals, which is methylated.

posted by dviking at 11:00 AM on July 18

It might be worth noting that Radomski just happened to find these receipts while dusting under his tv set. Actually, he claims he was moving the television set because it was broken and came across the receipt under the set. Hey, that's where I keep all receipts too. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

posted by BornIcon at 11:56 AM on July 18

the same compound as the orals, which is methylated But I hear that a spoonfull of sugar helps it go down.

posted by irunfromclones at 12:40 PM on July 18

Actually, he claims he was moving the television set because it was broken and came across the receipt under the set To give some credibility to this story...years before most of you were born, I was the Treasurer of the Marketing club at a university. We collected $20.00 from each member for our enrollment in some national organization. I gave our facilty advisor a check for $2000.00 which he was to submit via the university's general fund. Never thought another thing of it until late in the school year when he called late at night to tell me he found the check under his TV. Seems he had moved the set on top of some letters he was going to send (I have no idea why he did that). End of story is that we now had to decide if we sent in the money, or spent it on parties. We decided since the national group had basically done nothing for us all year (why should they, we never paid them), that the money was ours to spend. Keggers it was...the Marketing club became very popular! So, I actually do believe a guy could accidently find a receipt under a tv...Maybe he and my professor were both on drugs...who knows?

posted by dviking at 06:26 PM on July 18

we're still relying on McNamee's testimony for that. I have no desire to try and convince anyone of Clemens' guilt. At this point either a person believes Clemens probably was involved in some way or wouldn't believe it if they saw video of it. But that's a complete misrepresentation of the facts. One has to not believe McNamee despite a record of being correct, has to believe his training partner, trainer and wife were involved but not Clemens, have to ignore his pitiful performance in front of the committee, have to ignore big inconsistencies in his story, and now this, and that's just the cliff notes. I'm sure if the feds press charges they'll have even more evidence. There doesn't need to be a smoking gun. No failed drug test? How many on the mitchell report who confirm their use failed drug tests? Meaningless. There's no doubt clemens is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, and maybe he just dabbled, and hell, it looks like HGH might not even help according to recent studies. He should have admitted to trying it but nothing more. But he's fighting to be called the greatest pitcher ever, and he's a man-child who's made bad decisions. To give some credibility to this story There's no need to give it credibility. I've gotten better recently, but for years I was disorganized. I had receipts on my desk, in my wallet, under couch cushions, on my kitchen table, and yes, on my TV stand. And I've known people far worse. I have no idea if Radomski is telling the truth, but nothing about finding it under the tv makes it less believable.

posted by justgary at 11:42 PM on July 18

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