September 16, 2005

Skip Bayless has just pushed me over the edge. I don't know who he thinks he is, but I applauded Stoops for this hardline stance. Finally, a coach stood up and told a blue-chip athlete that you are here for school and that is #1. But in response to Bayless's article I will use logic instead of fury (for the moment). He wants to seperate this from the student-athlete talk, FINE. As a college athlete, Peterson is responsible for meeting all of the requirements for eligibility. One of the requirements is that he does a small matter of ATTENDING CLASS. So would Bayless be more comfortable with Stoops saying that he failed to fulfill an eligibility requirement. I am sure that Bayless would not mind punishing him for skipping a practice, so why is class so different? If he does not meet the minimum GPA, the school and the NCAA will not let him play so maybe Stoops just wants to head off the potential loss of Peterson for the season before it becomes an issue???? Now comes the fury. How dare Skip publicly undermine Stoops just for the sake of his cherished Sooners winning another game. I don't know much about Stoops but I will say that what he did sent a message to the team and to any other athlete that goes to OU, you skip class you will be punished, and I say RIGHT ON BOB!!!!!!!

posted by mcstan13 at 08:48 AM on September 16, 2005

Skip Clueless strikes again. I swear he just takes the devil's advocate position for the sake of it. God knows he's neither funny, nor particularly insightful.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:20 AM on September 16, 2005

Bayless, once again, rants away without thinking. This shows Stoops is trying to change the image of Oklahoma, and I applaud him for that. What Skip forgets is that not every player (very few, for that matter) will ever take the next step to the NFL, even though most probably THINK they will. The reality is, most NEED to go to classes and get this education and degree. Not treating Peterson, who most likely will go into the NFL, the same as the rest of the team sets a horrible example. Most Sooners will leave Norman with some great football memories, and, hopefully, a degree. If they follow Peterson's example, they'll leave with no football future, and quite possibly, no future, period.

posted by dyams at 10:00 AM on September 16, 2005

As an OU fan, I don't care if OU players are required to attend a single class ... Bayless should be ashamed of himself for writing this. He's clearly just trolling for controversy to prop up his pathetic career.

posted by rcade at 10:42 AM on September 16, 2005

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but ... I agree with Skip Bayless. At least to a degree. Anyone who mouths platitudes about an Oklahoma football player's first job being his studies is wildly out of touch with reality. Adrian Peterson did not choose OU to become proficient in molecular biology. He was not sought for his tremendous ability to slash through differential equation texts. The man is a football player. OU does not give a damn about Peterson once he leaves the Norman city limits. Neither do you, Sooner fans. What you care about is whether or not Oklahoma covers the spread, wins the Big 12 and plays in another national title game. If you did care, you'd have been more concerned when Barry Switzer had this program firing on all cylinders and the fuel was rapists, thugs and illiterates. There's a simple way to sort all this out. Just stop pretending football players at OU or any other major university are actually there for an education. Let them exist as normal students, expel them if they break the law or flunk out, and don't expect more out of them simply because a larger chunk of the school's ability to fundraise sits on their collectively underpaid shoulders. If the athlete wants an education, he'll see to it he gets it. If he doesn't and he ends up slinging hash or picking up garbage for the remainder of his life, he'll see to that also.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:21 AM on September 16, 2005

Even if you assume that no one cares about the education of Peterson, you have to realize that him not caring about his education, puts OU in football jeopardy. Bad grades at the end of this semester means no bowl game. So, Bayless is wrong no matter what your point of view.

posted by bperk at 11:33 AM on September 16, 2005

Who cares if he skips class??? As long as he can pass the class overall at the end of the semester who really cares. It is his life to make his choices and if he wants to risk blowing his college career and anything more, then I say... see ya sucker, Have a brick of government cheese. (on me of course)

posted by tankerhog at 11:55 AM on September 16, 2005

But is Stoops to get his team together at the beginning of the year and immediately separate the players with legitimate NFL asperations from those who merely play on the team, contribute on the starting squad, but will never play in the pros? No, because it isn't the job of the head football coach to be trailing around adults to make sure they are attending classes. His job is to win football games. He doesn't have to give any direction to his charges other than guiding them through practices and tell them not to flunk out and screw themselves out of opportunities to play. Bad grades at the end of this semester means no bowl game. Since when does not attending classes automatically mean bad grades? As an experiment, the guys on my dorm floor kept track of our attendance during the first semester of my sophomore year in college. IIRC, I hit 23-24% of my classes and finished with a 3.2 GPA. Will everyone do that? Probably not, but if you're going to tie academic standing to the ability to play in games, I guess you shouldn't be recruiting layabouts or morons, should you? On preview: That seems naive to me. Athletes in big-time programs need help, support, and guidance to succeed in their classes. Playing those sports is a time-consuming job and they are often coming from poor educational backgrounds where they were coddled for athletic skills. Agreed, which is why players should be paid as if they have a job rather than trying to do all of these things at once. Scholarships should be either usuable at the end of the player's eligibility or available after a player has exhausted his or her opportunity to persue a sport as a profession. My argument is for the NCAA and sports fans to stop acting like student-athletes exist, at least at the Division I level. A few manage to excel, but the vast majority are too burdened with their first priority -- athletics -- to worry much about being a student. Let them attend as many classes as they are able to handle with the full-time job they have and deal with the rest down the road, when they are finished filling the coffers of Oklahoma University.

posted by wfrazerjr at 12:23 PM on September 16, 2005

I want to add this -- I'm glad Stoops takes an interest in his players attending classes. It's admirable, but I'm afraid he's tilting at windmills. Unless the NCAA makes some across-the-board changes, all Stoops is going to do is get himself fired.

posted by wfrazerjr at 12:51 PM on September 16, 2005

I don't know that making students attend class will equate with less success on the football field. Florida State has mandatory attendance. Every day the football players have to get their professor to sign their attendance sheet. There is also mandatory tutoring sessions. And, Florida State is never going to be accused of being a tough academic institution. But, to play at the end of the week, you have to attend your classes. Seems reasonable. Agreed, which is why players should be paid as if they have a job rather than trying to do all of these things at once. Scholarships should be either usuable at the end of the player's eligibility or available after a player has exhausted his or her opportunity to persue a sport as a profession. What will this accomplish? Football players miss Friday during away game weeks and no other class. The NCAA limits their practice time during the week, so that there is ample time for schoolwork. If a player wants to get a degree, I don't see football as a roadblock.

posted by bperk at 01:24 PM on September 16, 2005

That's why baseball does it the right way. For players who don't want to go to college (and are good enough athletically), get drafted (or signed) and go to the minor leagues. Maybe football needs this same system. Stop affiliating colleges and schools of higher learning with teams filled with guys who don't even know their way to their scheduled classrooms. Get some of these athletes with rocks for brains far, far away from the academic world. They can play minor league football, then the NFL can draft from either the minors or college football. Let individuals who can actually play football AND get an education grace college campuses. The fact this idea sounds so ridiculous is an indication of the real problem, which involves thinking it's naive to think a person going to college would actually attend a class. And as for Stoops not having anything to worry about but winning football, I assume he probably has agreed-upon rules and conduct expectations he has his players sign prior to every season. He's already known as a great coach, and I'm sure having high personal expectations for his players is due to the respect Stoops wants for himself. He could have a losing record this season, get cut loose from Oklahoma, and dozens of teams would be beating down his door instantly.

posted by dyams at 01:29 PM on September 16, 2005

Have you ever been around high-level college athletics? Consider not only the three-hour practices each day, but the time in the weight room, in training sessions, team meetings, travel and everything else that goes along with being a top team athlete. God, it's not like these guys are laying around eating Pringles and playing GTA. I went to Florida State, so yeah, I have. The fall semester is all work, no doubt. But, so what? Their spring schedule isn't nearly as bad. And they are there during the summer as well. There are lots of rewards to it, even for those who aren't going to be in the NFL. I don't recall anyone quitting because it was just too much work. And, they seemed to find plenty of time to socialize. I think basketball players have it much worse because they miss most of the spring semester.

posted by bperk at 02:23 PM on September 16, 2005

I don't understand this thinking that a football players time is so consumed by his sport that he has no time for classes. What about those who excel on the field and in the classroom, do they not have the same load to carry? Case in point , Tim Green was an all-American in football, was a Rhodes scholar, became a pro football player, teacher, lawyer, novelist and NFL commentator . Seems to me he, among many others, found time for academics as well as sports. So please stop with this crying about how tough it is to be a student athlete.

posted by evil empire at 02:51 PM on September 16, 2005

Who gives a flying leap if these guys are in 3-hour practices and weight room and games all week. I worked 25-40 hours per week every semester I was in college. Some how I made it to class, got both a bachelors and a masters degree. Maybe you would get more from the players if you expected more. Seems to me that if you let them slide in class, they will try and slide on the field too. You will only get out of a player as much as you expect from them.

posted by mcstan13 at 02:59 PM on September 16, 2005

I dont know if I would call Skip Bayless an idiot, however I am certainly not a big fan of his or of his opinions!

posted by daddisamm at 03:10 PM on September 16, 2005

Evil Empire, that's a terrific example of taking one person and making him the standard for all. Tim Green was and is a very intelligent fellow. So are a fair number of guys who play D-I ball, and those guys would probably succeed if you rushed up and kicked them in the nuts before every midterm. However, the large majority of high-level college football players are not Rhodes Scholar candidates. They aren't too bright, they aren't very educated coming into college and they aren't focused on an education because it's not what brought them to the university. They were brought there to play football, not crack books, and during the season playing and training for Saturdays is just about all they do, as bperk agreed. So why not just have them attend school in the spring and summer sessions? Or give them another year or two after they run out of eligibility? MC, what was your side job in college? Was it mining coal? Or maybe arc welding? You know, something that would approximate 5-7 hours of daily getting your ass kicked to put on top of your class time and your studies? Just curious.

posted by wfrazerjr at 03:33 PM on September 16, 2005

JMD, I have news for you: If you want to do better than Starbucks (yeah, I went and looked at the top of your blog) after graduation, being able to write and express yourself well will absolutely be important for you. Especially the way technical jobs are migrating out of the USA.

posted by billsaysthis at 03:56 PM on September 16, 2005

I've missed whether Stoops is actually going to do it or not. I'm also wondering if a series of plays matter that much... Is it possible to be a great student and athlete? Obviously. Even on the great programs, you'll have prominent guys who end up as Rhodes Scholars. But there's a difference between 40-hour weeks at the bookstore and 40-hour weeks being yelled at by coaches and beaten up by teammates. Couple that with an ambivalence about school in the first place, it's not a good picture... There's probably more of an emphasis on stuff like this because, as someone mentioned earlier, there are greater consequences for programs with low graduation rates. The previous two or three guys probably said it better, but I've wasted 10 minutes on this, so it's getting posted. Bayless is Bayless. Thought the column was a bit silly, but it was funny because of its similarity to what you might hear on talk radio. All emotion.

posted by jackhererra at 03:59 PM on September 16, 2005

"Student-athletes already experience pressure to not take "hard" classes" I'll admit that I didn't give a damn about this during my college years, but I do wonder if these guys get the full use of the university during their time. Obviously, they get some perks, like getting early enrollment. But is there a clustering of majors where most of the classes don't coincide with practice, etc. No offense, about the Tim Green business, but with undergrad education turning into Vo-Tech, you have to come in to college with a pretty great foundation and curiosity to become a Tim Green. Football people don't really care about the first, and almost tries to stifle the second. The sport works best with drones.

posted by jackhererra at 04:08 PM on September 16, 2005

As a Oklahoma resident and a OU fan, I read the newspaper, watch the sports on TV etc. This gives me privvy to OU news that might not be published in another state. Not many ppl know, because it has not been widely published, but the Pres. of OU (the big kahuna) himself issued an edict that ALL student athletes WILL attend classes unless that student has an excused absence which will be checked thoroughly. The first offense is handled by the coach with the appropiate punishment meted out. The second offense warrants a suspension for such a time that the athlete fully understands his/her responsibility to the the university. So our Mr. Skip "Clueless" knows not what of which he speaks.

posted by johncee at 05:16 PM on September 16, 2005

now go out of the way to prove me wrong I'm sure there are plenty of female players with off court problems, they just don't get the attention male athletes get (good and bad).

posted by justgary at 06:11 PM on September 16, 2005

I worked 25-40 hours per week every semester I was in college. Some how I made it to class, got both a bachelors and a masters degree. Did you travel out of town 6-8 times in one semester? Even if you presume that 25-40 hours at the Olive Garden is just as arduous as 25-40 hours in a major football program, the travel alone would make studies difficult. I don't expect these athletes to get a pity party. But if a school really wants them to graduate with a meaningful education, and many schools do, the athletic department has to be committed to academic support and guidance beyond that offered to other students. Ninety-nine percept of these aspiring NFL pros won't draw a single check playing football. The degree they get in college is their best shot at the good life.

posted by rcade at 08:16 PM on September 16, 2005

Everybody knows that these athletes can play football- thats usally it. They can play a game. Do you think Peterson will ever use his degree? He could have went to the draft last year, and easily be drafted in the 1st or 2nd round. He probally stayed in school to ensure a top 5 pick, and to further prove him self. Im pretty damn sure that Peterson didnt stay in school to study. The kid is set for life- and probaly gets the treatment at school. But- he makes the school tons of money- MILLIONS OF DOLLARS so, they let it slide. Who knows- this shit proball yhappens in all prestigious schools. But who cares, its all about the Saturdays!

posted by redsoxrgay at 08:28 PM on September 16, 2005

Most of them are student athletes, but there are about 10 in every big football program that are not, and they are using that program as the minor leagues to hopefully make the NFL. The university makes money off of them and they get the chance to get an education for free if they want it. Key thing is if they want it. No one cares if a normal student graduates or not, so why should we care if an athlete does? And if they really cared about how the athlete does at school they would not lower the bar just to get them in. An athlete that can hardly read coming out of high school and he is suppose to be able to handle actual college classes? It is all crap, we use them to pay for the rest of the athletic department and they role the dice at becoming a millionare, that seems fair.

posted by Turbo at 09:25 PM on September 16, 2005

Here's what I don't get. The guy asserts that major football schools either care about winning or about scholastic achievement, and that furthermore that these school CAN'T care about both. This is a pretty bold statement in itself. What shocks me is the temerity to then side with the position that these schools SHOULD be football factories. You can't hold this position and also hold that college athletes aren't getting robbed by the NCAA. Otherwise, he's basically advocating a form of slavery - lock these football prodigies into colleges from 18-22, pay for their living expenses, and make millions of dollars off them in fucking tv revenue and bowl appearances.

posted by chmurray at 02:55 AM on September 17, 2005

Is there any problem with "student"/athletes at least going along with the charade of being a student while going to college, and, in turn, going to class? Maybe Peterson will do SportsFilter a favor (ala Lawrence Phillips, etc), and bomb out of his NFL career asperations, wonder aimlessly through life screwing up here and there and giving us entertaining stories to post about. Now that Notre Dame looks like they've come around a bit on the field and may be winning more consistently, I guess we all should be doubly impressed because they actually have tougher academic standards for athletes to even get in to the school! So next time we are all responding to stories that go on and on about poor educational backgrounds and gender-biased entrance exams that hinder minority students, let's also take time to remember many of the very people responding to this topic do just as much to keep the stereotype (that of stupid, clueless (often minority) jock) alive and well. Even just taking up a seat in a classroom and being unproductive when their schedule has them on campus is obviously too much to expect. And, I haven't heard for sure, but I'm sure this situation involves more than missing just one class. It probably had to get to the ridiculous point before they'd ever make a example out of the team's star player.

posted by dyams at 07:34 AM on September 17, 2005

I worked Two jobs(one fulltime), was married and had a child while going to college full time. A lot of people have done it over the course of time..........it really no big deal... This discussion has really gone south! It time to go make a potato salad! :-)

posted by daddisamm at 10:23 AM on September 17, 2005

Playing football is a privilege and an extra-curricular activity. To take part in certain extra-curricular activities, you must attend class. Peterson can miss classes if he chooses or if he partied too hard. However, he has to face the consequences of that decision, which in this case is not starting the game.

posted by bperk at 11:33 AM on September 17, 2005