04/25/24
June 10, 2005
Pistons Step in Pile of Manu: The Spurs beat the Pistons 84-69 in the opening game of the needs-a-better-name NBA Finals. The real winner of the graceless defensive struggle may have been the CSI repeat on CBS. The Spurs need three more wins to get their hands on Larry's Basket.
posted by rcade to basketball at 12:04 PM - 41 comments
I watched it until it became a laugher at the end. The first period was great -- no one plays smothering defense like the Detroit Pistons. But after a while, the best played defensive game is virtually indistinguishable from the worst played offensive game. I hope Detroit has an answer for Manu.
posted by rcade at 12:11 PM on June 10, 2005
Next game is Sunday? I'll to tune in and take a look see-I do like the Pistons. Loved it last year when the silenced the Lakers after they ousted my T-wolves. Its funny, when your team is out of it, you loose interest in the playoffs.
posted by daddisamm at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2005
I yammered about this already, but I enjoyed watching this. Detroit's defense was insanely good early on, but then began to spread out too much once the Spurs jumpers started going in. I'm actually watching this a second time (home, sick) just to see Ginobili and Hamilton run through their respective offenses, and how they were defended. (I could geek-out on defense all day.)
posted by avogadro at 12:34 PM on June 10, 2005
(I could geek-out on defense all day.) Ahh, that explains it. :)
posted by dusted at 12:50 PM on June 10, 2005
Ginobili haters are silent...if he could dribble better with opposite hands hed be the next d.Wade.
posted by HOE.O.K. at 01:35 PM on June 10, 2005
Call him a greasy European if you want, but to suggest he doesn't have opposable hands seems a bit rude.
posted by yerfatma at 03:43 PM on June 10, 2005
Ahh, that explains it. :) Those of us blessed with hops, dunk; those of us not...
posted by avogadro at 03:49 PM on June 10, 2005
Didn't hockey "experts" have the same attitude about European players 30 years ago that basketball pointyheads do now about Euro ballers? I think of Emanuel Ginobili as the Borje Salming of basketball. underestimate his skill and tenacity at your peril. And that game was a joy to watch.
posted by chicobangs at 05:22 PM on June 10, 2005
Manu played a geat second half. He was pretty much on lockdown for the whole first half with a total of four pts if i'm correct. Being one of those Manu hater I was sad to see him get off on the Pistons in the third and fourth quarter. I think for the Pistons to contain Manu, Prince will have to give the Pistons a lot of mins and more offensive production. The Pistons played great defense but they just forgot they also have to out score the other team to win.
posted by Broadstreetbully2000 at 08:58 PM on June 10, 2005
Manu is from Argentina, so if you called him a greasy European, you'd only be half right. 
posted by dusted at 09:46 PM on June 10, 2005
Those of us blessed with hops, dunk; those of us not... Very true. I could always run and pass, so I understand and appreciate that part of the game best. If you want to read some defensive geekery, here's a good breakdown of the rules for blocks and charges.
posted by dusted at 12:08 AM on June 11, 2005
Beware of the Black & Silver. Can you smell the dynasty? Yeah you know what I am talking about...
posted by pissed_off at 01:02 AM on June 11, 2005
As a manu hater, I never doubted the man has skills- but what drives me nuts is his floppsy moppsy and cottontail style of play: a whirling dervish in the lane that gets way too many friendly foul calls that he doesn't deserve, simply because he bounces off everyone. It's not unlike my loathing of the "slugger- wearing- body- armor- who- doesn't- even- flinch- when- getting- hit- by- the- pitch- even- though- he- isn't- entitled- to- first- base".
posted by hincandenza at 01:49 AM on June 11, 2005
I thought the Pistons were tough! I figured if any team could conatian him, it would be the mighty Pistons. Guess not! I think someone needs to get tough and step into the lane and knock him down hard! They gonna let some pasty white dude run all over them? Guess so!
posted by bluekarma at 02:53 AM on June 11, 2005
This seems destined to be a series of Class vs. Clash. C'mon Spurs.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 07:10 AM on June 11, 2005
I'm tired of all this crap about the Spurs-Pistons series being boring and poor ratings garbage. These are two of the best matched teams in recent NBA finals history. You have the 2 best defensive players in the league-Wallace and Bowen. Two of the best back courts in the league if not the best in Hamilton/Billups and Parker/Manu. What is wrong with good fundamental basketball with great coaching? We have been blinded by all the glitz and glamour of the NBA. Thats not to say that there wasn't excitement in the game. The Spurs fought off an early 17-4 deficit and the game had plenty of excitement and great shots-did you miss billups immobilize Horry with the behind the back fake? I for one can't wait for game 2. Go Spurs Go!
posted by H-Town at 08:08 AM on June 11, 2005
I am so tired of hearing what the Pistons did'nt do. Has anyone thought that maybe the Spurs would'nt let them play their game? Besides,the best teams in the league have been fron the west since the retirement of MJ and Detroit just got luck last year beating the Lakers. Their reign is over now the Spurs will win in no more than six games....
posted by cable5005 at 08:29 AM on June 11, 2005
This seems destined to be a series of Class vs. Clash. Are you suggesting the Pistons are classless? Detroit plays good team basketball and doesn't have any Kobe problems with their stars. Mitch Albom described them recently as "castoffs and tough guys and character guys and family guys," and I think that's a fair assessment. How can you not like team-first players like Rip and Billups? I think they're one of the more likeable teams in the league.
posted by rcade at 08:47 AM on June 11, 2005
Fair enough, rcade. I suppose I was letting their late 80's reputation, Detroit fans penchant for burning up the city if they win anything (good thing the Tigers and Lions eternally suck) and the notion that this team prefers to ugly-up the game a bit by keeping the score in 80's cloud my view. When I refer to the Spurs as "Class", I believe they are, man for man, a better class of player than the Pistons...this doesn't take away any Detroit players attributes as a man. There are exceptions to every rule...Isiah Thomas, Rip and Billups are certainly that. Basically, I see the Spurs as an enjoyable team to watch. The Pistons? Not so much.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:03 AM on June 11, 2005
Manu is from Argentina, so if you called him a greasy European, you'd only be half right. Ten bucks says his grandfather's native language is Italian.
posted by Ufez Jones at 09:15 AM on June 11, 2005
This seems destined to be a series of Class vs. Clash. Are you suggesting the Pistons are classless? Personally, I think this could flip either way; you could argue that both teams are class & clash. In any case, I thought that the two teams were going to make out before tip-off, so much was the love. There were certainly some missed charges out there, notably when Ben was guarding Manu at the arc (the one where Ben got hit with a technical for, rightly, being pissed off). Though (*looks knowingly at Hal, ;-)* ) you cannot tell me that Ben didn't flop there. Dusted's link is especially good, though. Read it for the rule on the "secondary defender" in the arc. This is what Manu and Parker are taking advantage of (and what I see the Pistons adapting to on both ends in Game 2); they are blowing by the first defender on the way to the basket, and the second and third defenders are too late to swing around to take the charge. Rip and Billups also have mad quickness, so you know that they are going to be driving next game. Game 1 they seemed to spend cutting arcs ouside of the paint, which plays into the shot-blocking of the Spurs. This is still going to seven. Somebody's going to get a broken schnozz (isn't there a Vegas line for this somewhere?), but the teams respect each other too much to let things get ugly.
posted by avogadro at 09:21 AM on June 11, 2005
When I refer to the Spurs as "Class", I believe they are, man for man, a better class of player than the Pistons... If you match the players like ESPN did, I'd take Rip over Ginobli, Prince over Bowen, and Ben Wallace over Mohamed. Looking player by player, it's tough to understand why the Spurs seem to be the better team.
posted by rcade at 10:46 AM on June 11, 2005
In my opinion, the two team are quit equal. The one Player who doesnt fit into this equality, is Duncan. He would be the one player that gives the Spurs the edge, in an what is other wise, an equal match-up! If the Pistons play the game that they are capable of, they can overcome the Duncan edge. The Key is "Sheed" stepping up and "Big Ben" helping out. These teams are both pretty classey--with few exceptions. I am still trying to figure out what is meant by "Greasy European"
posted by daddisamm at 11:10 AM on June 11, 2005
It just means he doesn't wash his hair. Think Steve Nash with an accent and four or five more inches of height.
posted by chicobangs at 11:17 AM on June 11, 2005
It just means he doesn't wash his hair. Think Steve Nash with an accent and four or five more inches of height. Look, just cause they don't hit the Head and Shoulders at the half doesn't mean they are greasy. It's just that The Black Man's Hair is better suited for dealing with the perspiration. That long straight hair, though, just gets wetter and floppier. Big Ben did a man's job out there- it's 'sheed who needs to take more shots, contrary to his own opinion.
posted by avogadro at 11:36 AM on June 11, 2005
Sheed needs to man handle Duncan
posted by daddisamm at 11:47 AM on June 11, 2005
rcade, matchups-wise, I would go with Chauncey over Parker, Ginobili over Rip, Tayshaun over Bowen, Duncan over Rasheed, Big Ben over Mohammed, Spurs' bench over Detroit's, Popovich over LB. It is pretty even, but the Spurs do seem to be just barely the better team when you look at all the matchups. And the last matchup - Popovich over LB - may end up determining how quickly the Spurs win this series. The reason Manu went off in the 4th quarter of Game 1 was because LB didn't have Tay guarding Ginobili anymore. The combination of Lindsey Hunter and Antonio McDyess guarding Manu was laughable.
posted by platocave at 11:55 AM on June 11, 2005
Detroit just got luck last year beating the Lakers. Oh, and I hope that this is the last time that I ever read this. What shite. [in preview] Sheed needs to man handle Duncan I think that he did, but it's not a strategy that generally works. Take a look at the inbounds play late in the third quarter, the one where they had to re-set the shot clock. Sheed had Duncan in a half-nelson, trying to keep Dunc from getting the pass. Duncan pulled away, caught the pass, and floated a fall-away from the baseline with Sheed face-guarding him. He does not get intimidated by physical play (only by himself).
posted by avogadro at 11:58 AM on June 11, 2005
Lakers injuries allowed Pistons to win last year and most people know that. Kobe played hurt, they were without Rick Fox(an excellent defender), Shaq was fat and had knee problems. A healthy Laker team would of beaten Detroit and that's a fact.
posted by bluekarma at 12:09 PM on June 11, 2005
Someone needs to whack the Purs upside the head. You pressure Duncan and Parker a little and they will break. I have seen it happen. They can't handle pressure. Duncan will whine like a baby as will Parker. Detroit needs to toughen up and take it to the Spurs or else pack your bags after Game 4 because it will be over. Don't let these pussies from San Antonio show up the mighty Pistons. Big Ben needs to get real physical with Duncan. Duncan is a wuus. Ever see him get those big eyes when something doesnt go his way?? C'mon Ben, we are counting on you!
posted by bluekarma at 12:12 PM on June 11, 2005
If you will notice, the only reason the Spurs are winning is their field goal and 3 pt %.
posted by ncwRedRaider at 12:18 PM on June 11, 2005
The Spurs will win in 4-5 games
posted by ncwRedRaider at 12:37 PM on June 11, 2005
the finals have 2 best teams in the nba is competin for this year i was hopin twolves 2 be back but they fall apart its goin 2 be fun im rooting for the pistons plus everyone know timmy is from the virgin islands now i have friends from the island said he sold out all that gay old shit about him from the islands is just for celebrity publicity bullshit stunt to get his people recongize again but they r not fools he never visit the islands to help out he dont help out with the community in st croix so they dont give a shit about him plus is in game 1 they were allot of calls should been called against the spurs i think the pistons r still the underdogs in the nba because they beat the lakers last yr and everyone say they got lucky the only real player the lakers were scoring 40 plus pts in each game was shaq kobe dont want to admit they defended him well i would say kobe had allot things on his mind too but so wat he still played well against other teams right after his criminal case visitation in denver on the same day offseason he still scored 40 plus pts put it this way the spurs did not beat the lakers last yr to reach the finals then the lakers got beaten the by the pistons this yr the best players on the spurs is manu, parker and horry but im still rooting pistons beware of the wallaces p.s. bluekarma i agree with u about the duncan
posted by defrag3x at 12:46 PM on June 11, 2005
Lakers injuries allowed Pistons to win last year and most people know that. Kobe played hurt, they were without Rick Fox(an excellent defender), Shaq was fat and had knee problems. A healthy Laker team would of beaten Detroit and that's a fact. Maybe-but the Lakers werent healthly-Kobe was a ball hog and they didnt play as a team--thats a fact... You cant deny that the Pistons were and are a good team.
posted by daddisamm at 12:49 PM on June 11, 2005
So calling somebody a Greasy European is nothing Racial? Just checking. In today's world its hard to know what is and what isnt a raicl comment... I certainly dont.
posted by daddisamm at 12:51 PM on June 11, 2005
Lakers injuries allowed Pistons to win last year and most people know that. Kobe played hurt, they were without Rick Fox(an excellent defender), Shaq was fat and had knee problems. A healthy Laker team would of beaten Detroit and that's a fact. Um, 'tis a fine opinion but 'tis no fact. Remember, also, that Sheed and Billups were nursing injuries and Rip had a plate of plastic over his face. Oh, and the "Shaq was fat" argument is about as valid as saying "If Big Ben was a better shooter". They were, in fact, fat and a bad shooter. That's just their physical abilities, not handicaps. If you will notice, the only reason the Spurs are winning is their field goal and 3 pt %. If you notice, most teams win by missing fewer shots. Funny, that.
posted by dfleming at 01:23 PM on June 11, 2005
So calling somebody a Greasy European is nothing Racial? Just checking. In today's world its hard to know what is and what isnt a raicl comment... I certainly dont. That's a good observation, daddisamm. Is "Greasy European" any different than "greaser"? I know a lot of people who be offended by that and I only quote it here to make a point. I suppose we would have to ask a European...a continental European...whether the former is as racist. If you match the players like ESPN did Personally, I'm not so big on listening to the talking heads because for the most part, I don't think they know crap. I just see things differently and don't claim to see this series objectively; I want the Spurs to win. And dfleming...nice one.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 02:18 PM on June 11, 2005
Personally, I'm not so big on listening to the talking heads because for the most part, I don't think they know crap. I think that the problem is more that these are the last two teams that you can judge using position-by-position matchups. Individually, these two teams may look pretty mediocre compared to, say, Dallas or Phoenix or Miami. Put them together though...
posted by avogadro at 05:50 PM on June 11, 2005
I really want the Pistons to win, but I don't think they'll be able to get it done. I think the starting matchups are pretty much equal - Pistons get a little edge with Rip, Spurs get a little edge with Duncan - and the coaching is equal too. The difference is the bench. Glenn Robinson is basically the reason I lost interest in Milwaukee basketball, but having him come off the bench? My god, folks, the Spurs bench is sick. Robert Horry? Spurs will win this series. I love the Pistons, but Spurs in 6.
posted by rocketman at 10:29 PM on June 11, 2005
Late to the thread, so here's my 2 cents worth: avogadro: I would definitely agree with you that these are the last two teams that you can judge like that. The criteria are so arbitrary, and the players don't even always match up against each other. Would I take Prince over Bowen? Sure. But would I want any other player in the league besides Bowen to chase Hamilton through and around screens all night? Not a chance. The same for Hamilton vs. Ginobili. Does one give Rip a slight edge in that matchup? (I don't.) Only if he is playing for the Pistons or in a system where the whole offence is structured to get him shots. He cannot create for himself...!!! If you were starting a franchise from scratch and you had to pick between the two, it would be Ginobili 10 times out of 10 because he has more all-around game. I don't agree with you that it's going 7 though. It would end in 5 normally, but won't because they play the 2-3-2 home game format in the Finals, after going 2-2-1-1-1 during the rest of the playoffs. I'm sure this ensures it goes back to San Antonio. Texan_lost_in_NY: I agree about the talking heads for the most part, though I have been pleasantly surprised by how good Greg Anthony is as an analyst. Re: "Greasy European" -- since being European is not a "race", I would say it is very insulting, yes, but racist, no. Shooting: If the Pistons could fire out 2's like defrag3x, this would be a series!!
posted by smithers at 09:18 AM on June 12, 2005
"pile of manu"--thats almost as good as dear meat Is anybody really watching this series??--Iknow I didnt watch any of it last night. I was into a baseball game!