04/18/24
July 30, 2006
Yankees pull off a "Bronx" Buster: The New York Yankees, clearly in need of another starting pitcher and outfielder, struck an agreement with the Phillies today that Sent Bobby Abreu and Corey Lidle to the Yanks- more contract details inside.
posted by redsoxrgay to baseball at 09:49 PM - 69 comments
Abreu has not been the same since he had that amazing home run derby last year. But he's still going to give the Yankees a heck of a lift. And Lidle's a quality pitcher. I hope the Red Sox come up with something good to counter this or they may not see the post season. The clock is ticking, Theo, the clock is ticking.
posted by fenriq at 11:11 PM on July 30, 2006
Yeah, but if the season ended in two weeks, the White Sox would probably be the odd team out. Boston gets back David Wells from injury, and Coco Crisp is finally coming around. This move made by the Yankees is alright, but honestly, I would have rather seen them pick up a guy like Barry Zito or Dontrelle Willis. Adding Abreu wasn't a necessity, especially with Bernie doing well this year, Matsui on the mend, and Sheffield due back in September or sooner. Melky is also a decent outfielder, a rookie, and has a rocket for an arm. Lidle is a good fit for the Yankees, and will probably do well in the 4 spot in the starting 5. I think a potentially smart move would to go with a 6 man rotation, which would enable the starters (particulary Johnson) to pitch more innings, and hopefully give the Yankees entire stafff a rest. With Abreu, Lidle, and the returns of Matsui, Cano, Dotel, and possibly Sheffield- the Yankees should slide into the playoffs.
posted by redsoxrgay at 11:26 PM on July 30, 2006
the Yankees should slide into the playoffs. Slide? Are you kidding? This gives the yankees basically an allstar at every position. They gave up nothing but money, really, and that's not a problem for george. With this line up the yankees should win the east. If they don't, it's a major collapse, and you've got to look at the skipper. He's got more talent than any coach in the league. That said, they've still got to play the games.
posted by justgary at 11:38 PM on July 30, 2006
I hope the Red Sox come up with something good to counter this or they may not see the post season. The clock is ticking, Theo, the clock is ticking. I'm really hoping they stand pat. I'll win or lose with them. Sure, pitching would be nice, but I like this team. I hope they don't make some rash decision and send of some of their young arms away. I like that this team has plugged holes from the inside. Hopefully, they're keeping in mind that to compete with the yankees they need a farm system. They can't compete with the yankees on the free agent market. The sox need to not only think of this year, but the near future.
posted by justgary at 11:46 PM on July 30, 2006
This talk makes me laugh. The white sox odd man out? Yankees have more talent then everybody else? The mighty white soxs are the team to beat. Their pitching will come around. They have the best five plus one starter in the major leagues. Their 3-4-5-6 hitters are simply powerful. The Al east will have one team in post season and they won't last long. We will see how the tigers finish. But the defending world series champions are the Chicago White Soxs. They are the team to beat.
posted by whodat at 01:18 AM on July 31, 2006
They are the team to beat. With a record of 4-11 since the All-Star break, that's what everyone has been doing to the 'mighty white soxs'...
posted by wingnut4life at 04:44 AM on July 31, 2006
I'm really hoping they stand pat. I'll win or lose with them . . . The sox need to not only think of this year, but the near future. Seconded.
posted by yerfatma at 06:03 AM on July 31, 2006
I think if Theo wasn't back, the Sox might pull off a panic trade, but I'm with justgary and yerfatma. I think this team still contends for the AL East. I don't think Sheffield's going to contribute much this year, and as tough as Matsui is, the aborted return of Derrick Lee proves that wrist injuries are extremely troublesome when it comes to recovering one's swing. I still think the wheels come off the Yankee wagon, and the Blue Jays take over second place in the AL East.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 06:11 AM on July 31, 2006
i loved abreu until this year he is putting up average numbers A .420 OPB is average?!
posted by rocketman at 06:16 AM on July 31, 2006
Abreu is also the only player not named Bonds to steal 20 and hit 20 homers in seven straight seasons. HR totals are down this year, but everything else is in line. He'll fit nicely in the Yankees' line-up. When I said earlier that the Phillies wouldn't trade Abreu, this is exactly why I thought they wouldn't. They couldn't get his value in return, and they most definitely didn't. To any Yankees fan second-guessing this trade, stop now. You got a guy in Abreu who would never be the leader or star that the Phillies needed, but will prosper on a team with guys like Jeter, A-Rod, etc. Corey Lidle is a great number 5 option. Problem is the Phillies wanted him to be a number 3. This is tough to swallow for me. It's nothing more than a salary dump, as they get prospects no older than 21 and a 27 year old minor league reliver. They didn't even get one of the Yankees' top three prospects. That's pathetic. But that's the Phillies.
posted by SummersEve at 06:48 AM on July 31, 2006
The Yankees have been playing well this season (with the exception of a few blowout losses) with their patched-up lineup, and getting Abreu for practically nothing (talent-wise) was nice. People see Abreu's dwindling home run numbers and think he's having an off year. I'll take a guy who gets on base as much as he does, and he still manages to mash his share of doubles. I would have been OK with the team staying with the young guys who've been keeping them in it to this point, but August and September are long months that may take a toll on some of them.
posted by dyams at 06:52 AM on July 31, 2006
I'm a little skeptical about the impact of this deal; in my opinion, the Yankees have not benefited from stockpiling overpaid All-Stars over the past few years. They were a much more fearsome group when their lineup included such mortals as Brosius, O'Neill, Martinez and Knoblauch. Sure, the team has won tons of games, but they don't seem to have playoff ability commensurate with their salaries (witness the epic choke in 2004). Abreu replaces Sheffield in future seasons? As a Sox fan, that's a move I strongly support. The Yankees' real issue this season has been pitching, and Lidle may help to address that. We'll see how he adjusts to the superior AL offenses. (The Yankees seem to have magic pitching juice on occasion, they didn't let Small have any this year so they must be saving it for somebody.) Once again, however, the best GM in the majors pulls off the deal that several teams were looking to make. Mancash never fails to get the job done, as long as G. Stein isn't pulling the rug out from under him. I hope the Red Sox come up with something good to counter this or they may not see the post season. The clock is ticking, Theo, the clock is ticking. I could not disagree more...don't move any of those young pitchers, Theo!
posted by Venicemenace at 07:48 AM on July 31, 2006
Does Brian Cashman have some sort of mystical phone voice that hypnotizes opposing general managers into giving him their best available players in exchange for a bag of C+ level prospects? I'm sure someone will complain that the Yankees are using their big bucks to "buy" a title, but in this case (as in other trades where they acquired an expensive player), the other teams in the league don't HAVE to make a deal with them. I'm stunned that acquiring Abreu and Lidle didn't cost them at LEAST one of Hughes or Duncan. I would have figured that was a minimum price for a player with any talent whatsoever. I'm also stunned that the Phillies thought that was the best deal they could get for Abreu and/or Lidle. And when did Philadelphia become a "small market" team and decide to do salary dumps?
posted by grum@work at 08:06 AM on July 31, 2006
I fail to see how anyone can accept this as less than a total fleecing. The Yanks gave up grade C prospects for Abreu, who, if he just keeps doing what he always does, will not only contribute this year, but will be able to replace Sheffield's bat next. But we all knew this was going to happen - Abreu's contract is imposing and if it wasn't the Yankees it was going to be who, exactly? However, Lidle was actually one of the more attractive available starters out there (amazing, I know) and to get him as a virtual throw in is a great move. With Mussina, Wang, Wright, Lidle and The Unit, the Yanks have cobbles together the makings of a decent rotation. Of course, there is the vaunted, and much overstated, pressure of the Big Apple (I don't buy it), but I think it's obvious that this has to tighten up an already tight race in the East. I still have to give it to the Red Sox. Just a tad more pitching and much better defence. Blue Jays are done. This gives the yankees basically an allstar at every position. Yes, well I think the issue is that this gives them a lot of older All-Stars at many positions, but really, they're starting to resemble a collection of former all-stars with contract that are going to be impossible to move. Giambi can't play the field, Matsui wasn't goingt o be an All-Star this year, Neither is/was Damon, Posada, Unit, Cano - these guys are all on the downside of their careers. I wouldn't be surprised if next year the Yankees are starting to look full of holes. I mean, you can't really go out there and buy three starters of high quality (assuming Mussina and Wang are back - knowing an ineffective Randy Johnson is grudingly back) and a bullpen, can you?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:13 AM on July 31, 2006
I could not disagree more...don't move any of those young pitchers, Theo! Or Mike Lowell. I would like to see Rudy See-Ahhhn-yez gone, though.
posted by jerseygirl at 08:23 AM on July 31, 2006
Neither is/was Damon, Posada, Unit, Cano - these guys are all on the downside of their careers. Obviously, Cano is not on the downside of his career. Unless he is, as I suspect, Junior Felix in disguise.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:28 AM on July 31, 2006
I would like to see Rudy See-Ahhhn-yez gone, though. That would require a bus ticket instead of a trade.
posted by yerfatma at 08:38 AM on July 31, 2006
Fine. I'll chip in for some. Can I count on you and justgary to contribute?
posted by jerseygirl at 08:45 AM on July 31, 2006
Large salaries don't translate into playoff success. Players don't swing at pitches with rolled-up contracts. There are a lot of very good young players around the league, and thinking the Yankees "signing" players automatically makes them World Series champions is overly simplistic. It only serves to give them a good chance at winning games and, hopefully, getting a shot in the playoffs. But players with hefty salaries still have slumps, still pop up with two outs and the bases loaded, and still give up three-run homers when trying to protect a one-run lead. Steinbrenner and Cashman have always preferred veteran, proven players. It's hard to argue since any minor league "sure-thing" is far from a sure-thing once they reach the Show. The Yankees are a successful business: They make money and spend that money on their product. This isn't baseball of the '60s and '70s anymore, it's the 21st century and money drives everything. I choose to watch baseball for baseball and not worry about the other crap. That's the only option I, as a fan, really have.
posted by dyams at 08:46 AM on July 31, 2006
The Yankees are a successful business: They make money and spend that money on their product. Actually, I think successful businesses attempt to make a profit, while the Yankees pretty much spend everything they make. That's no knock on them, but to compare them to Microsoft or something is a touch inaccurate. They make more money than other teams thanks to economic disparities and the blessings of their history, in addition to the choices they make as an organization. This allows them to spend vastly more than other teams can. As a Red Sox fan, I'm not really complaining about the economic inequalities in baseball that simultaneously allow my team to have a leg up on 80% of the rest of the league. But if I were a Phillies fan, I would be disgusted by this trade. It doesn't seem right that a big-market team should give away players like this; but the Yankees can always eat a huge contract because they have endless resources. I choose to watch baseball for baseball and not worry about the other crap. That's the only option I, as a fan, really have. As a Yankee fan, you mean...
posted by Venicemenace at 09:21 AM on July 31, 2006
Grum, actually this is the first total fleecing the Yankees have pulled off in several years. For a while there have been teams like the DBacks that have actively tried to avoid dealing with them or jacked up their asking prices just because they're the Yankees. Meanwhile, Theo has gotten some pretty great players for a song (Schilling obviously stands out the most). I was pretty shocked to see what they gave up to get these players. Matt Smith is a fine reliever who I think will do well for them. He looked great in the bigs this year and Torre should have used him more instead of wearing out Proctor's arm in June. I don't know a thing about any of the other guys though. But I'll give up Smith for those guys any time. I do think that the Yankees were prepared to give up Duncan if they had to. I think he's become overvalued, plus he plays positions that block him from ever coming up. I was pretty surprised to see that they got Lidle instead of Lieber, since Lidle is 2 years younger, cheaper, and not signed for next year. If you look at their K/BB and WHIP they're essentially the same pitcher, and while I wouldn't have minded Lieber because he has pitched in NY and can eat innnings, Lidle will still pitch more innings than they've been getting out of their #5, and even if he has a 5.50 ERA the team is better off, because the bullpen will be fresher. If they're fresher, I think they all improve... Torre's overuse of them has been much more of a problem than their actual ability, I think. Abreu is a monster player even if he doesn't hit another HR all year. My big worry is that Torre will stick in in the 5 slot in the current lineup, which wastes his OBP. (hitting 5th when Matsui and Sheffield come back is another story.) Unfortunately, since they're set in their ways with Damon and Jeter at 1-2 and not wanting to put two lefties together, one of the top OBP guys - Giambi and Abreu - is going to be robbed of at bats and for the time being will not be hitting in front of anyone who can reliably drive him in. So for this reason, I'm actually thinking the trade won't have that big an impact. I don't expect Matsui or Sheffield to be at 100% after all the time off anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if they don't really add much at all in terms of runs per game unless Torre smartens up a bit.
posted by Bernreuther at 10:20 AM on July 31, 2006
Blue Jays are done 5.5 games back of the wild card with 57 games to play, and an elimination number of 54? I'm pretty sure the elimination number has to drop below 40 before you can even begin to call a team "done".
posted by grum@work at 10:44 AM on July 31, 2006
I choose to watch baseball for baseball and not worry about the other crap. That's the only option I, as a fan, really have. As a Yankee fan, you mean... No, actually as just a plain fan. While the Yankees are the team I root the most for, I watch any game I can get on TV, from the Braves, to the Cubs, the Mets, Yankees. I go to several Pirates games a year, and also go to Cleveland and Toronto. I also try to make at least a couple Buffalo Bison games a year. So as you can see, a good deal of my summer is spent watching baseball, period.
posted by dyams at 11:08 AM on July 31, 2006
And when did Philadelphia become a "small market" team and decide to do salary dumps? I think this is as much about Pat Gillick trying to erase the vestiges/mistakes of the Ed Wade era and create a team with his stamp on it as anything else. This largely frees up the Phillies to take on some salary in the offseason; they were out of it this year and Abreu isn't worth the $15MM he has coming to him next year. (Although the real stinker on the Phillies payroll is Burrell's $13MM in 2007 and $14MM in 2008.) I think the Phillies got a very bad deal here, but final analysis on the trade should probably wait until we see what Gillick does in the offseason with the $$$ he is saving.
posted by holden at 11:27 AM on July 31, 2006
This is a typical Yankee trade, big contracts in exchange for young talent. Anyways, I really think that the Yankees could have done without Abreu. Bernie has been a pleasant suprise thus far, Melky has done well in clutch situations, and Damon hit two homers yesterday. The real gem of the trade was Corey Lidle, who really anchors the backend of the starting 5. With Ponson and Chacon in the pen, hopefully guys like Proctor, Villone, Farnsworth, and Rivera can get some rest. They are the team to beat. Obviously you are caught up in your world series run.... this year it dosent look so bright for ya.
posted by redsoxrgay at 11:30 AM on July 31, 2006
im dissapointed with this deal. Abreu hasnt been have a great year and i would've preffered Carlos Lee but then again who knows Bobby could get hot and Lidle can definatley contribute
posted by bronxbomber at 11:31 AM on July 31, 2006
This is a typical Yankee trade, big contracts in exchange for young talent. You use the word "talent" like these guys the Yankees sent to Philadelphia are on the fast-track to the majors. The best-case projections I've seen on any of them is possibly seeing major league time in 2009 or 2010. Even then, there's probably a better chance of them disappearing altogether than making a major league impact of any sort.
posted by dyams at 11:43 AM on July 31, 2006
Sounds like Lowell is going bye-bye from Boston for Lugo. Does Youkillis take over full-time at third if Lowell goes?
posted by dyams at 11:52 AM on July 31, 2006
Link? But to answer your question, I'd presume Lugo plays third... Which just sounds awesome. /sarcasm
posted by jerseygirl at 12:03 PM on July 31, 2006
Bernie has been a pleasant suprise thus far The only "pleasant surprise" about Bernie Williams is that the opposing teams are "pleasantly surprised" to see him in the field at game time. A .752 OPS from your right fielder is atrocious. That's supposed to be a power position, and a .432 SLG is more in line with a middle infield position. Obviously, you aren't talking about his defence either, since he's about as mobile as a stone pillar and everybody and their wheelchair-bound grandmother takes an extra base on him when he throws (bounces?) it back to the infield. With Ponson and Chacon in the pen, hopefully guys like Proctor, Villone, Farnsworth, and Rivera can get some rest. A 5.77 ERA and a 7.00 ERA (respectively) usually mean that there is less rest for the guys that come in after them, since they have to finish those innings they started, all with men on base. Hey, I'm a fan of my local team too. And I tend to overrate them as well. But the spin you are trying to put on the work from Williams, Ponson and Chacon is a bit much.
posted by grum@work at 12:08 PM on July 31, 2006
well I think the issue is that this gives them a lot of older All-Stars at many positions, but really, they're starting to resemble a collection of former all-stars with contract that are going to be impossible to move. Giambi can't play the field, Matsui wasn't goingt o be an All-Star this year, Neither is/was Damon, Posada, Unit, Cano - these guys are all on the downside of their careers. True. I should have said 'at one time'. They're a mix of current and former all stars. But all are paid like all stars. Take damon for example. In yankee land damon has been a great pickup, everything they wanted. Compare his stats with youkalis. Almost dead even. Now check out their salaries. And the yankees are happy paying damon 13 million? Yes, because money doesn't come into the equation. I'm sure someone will complain that the Yankees are using their big bucks to "buy" a title, but in this case (as in other trades where they acquired an expensive player), the other teams in the league don't HAVE to make a deal with them. Sure they do. If you have over priced stars you want to get rid of there are only a few teams who can absorb the contract, the yankees and red sox are two of them. Abreu would only waive his no trade clause for four teams, with the yankees being one of them. So 'have to' might be strong, but not by much. The Yankees have been playing well this season (with the exception of a few blowout losses) with their patched-up lineup There's very few teams in the league that wouldn't take your 'patched up' lineup. The reason your patched up lineup has done well is because you stll had/have more talent than 80 percent of the teams out there (that's conservative). Talent is why the sox can lose 3 out of 5 starting pitchers and still be in first place. I doubt any teams are going to shed tears for the yankees/sox patched up lineups.
posted by justgary at 12:09 PM on July 31, 2006
Anyways, I really think that the Yankees could have done without Abreu. Bernie has been a pleasant suprise thus far... while, bernie has done better than expected, he is not an ever day player. he's had a couple nice streaks, but that's it. and he's a liability on the field. With Ponson and Chacon in the pen... one of those 2 will be DFA'd today. my bet is on ponson since he has been unwilling to go to the pen. i wouldn't mind seeing both gone actually. Bern pretty much nailed it. with the way players have been going on the DL and never seem to return, they can't rely on matsui and sheff coming back at full strength, if at all. they needed another bat because the bernie/guiel platoon wasn't going to cut it. and cashman managed to get it without giving up hughes or tabata. getting lidle too was just gravy. on a side note, one of the guys at Yanks Blog talks about the nice send off that the philly fans gave to abreu and lidle yesterday.
posted by goddam at 12:10 PM on July 31, 2006
Grum, Bernie has been a pleasant surprise... I was expecting a .500 OPS out of him (and he obliged with a .510 for a while before "heating up"). I never thought to put Damon and Youk side by side like that. I for one hated the Damon signing. He'll have one more good year in him then it's Bernie all over - a guy without any range left, no arm, declining bat, and 2 more years at mega millions. But I did always like him and he's fun to root for now that he's not on the Sox, I guess.
posted by Bernreuther at 12:21 PM on July 31, 2006
Link? ESPN Insider (which I know not everyone has access to) reports the following (which I copied and pasted): Lowell in a three-way deal? Jul 31 - The Red Sox are working a pair of three-team deals involving third baseman Mike Lowell, two Boston newspapers report. According to The Boston Globe, the Red Sox are discussing a deal with Tampa Bay and San Diego that would bring Devil Rays infielder Julio Lugo and Padres setup man Scott Linebrink to Boston, with Lowell going to the Padres. The Devil Rays presumably would get prospects from one or both clubs. Andruw to Red Sox? Jul 31 - ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reported that the Red Sox and the Braves have talked about a deal that would send Andruw Jones to Boston for Coco Crisp, Craig Hansen and a prospect. But according to an executive familiar with the discussions, the Braves made a counter offer, asking for Jon Lester to be the third player.
posted by dyams at 12:23 PM on July 31, 2006
I never thought to put Damon and Youk side by side like that. I for one hated the Damon signing. Earlier in the season it actually looked much worse. Youk was hitting 320 and was leading the league in obp. He cooled off however, and damon started getting hot. Also, in fairness it should be noted that coco was suppose to replace damon, and that hasn't worked out. So I don't think the sox were as much smart as they were lucky. No one was thinking "let damon go, we got youk".
posted by justgary at 12:34 PM on July 31, 2006
Oh. I knew there was a rumor, but I wouldn't say "Sounds like" to describe it, yet. I didn't know the Braves front office was doing crack. Good to know. Lester isn't going anywhere.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:34 PM on July 31, 2006
I think Coco is still hurt, Gary.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:35 PM on July 31, 2006
I think Coco is still hurt, Gary. No, that's just the way he throws jerseygirl (but did you see that catch he made?).
posted by justgary at 12:38 PM on July 31, 2006
I hate that commercial! That Andruw Jones rumor though... As much as I like Hansen, I think I'd pull the trigger on that if Lester isn't involved.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:41 PM on July 31, 2006
That Andruw Jones rumor though... As much as I like Hansen, I think I'd pull the trigger on that if Lester isn't involved. Agreed.
posted by justgary at 12:45 PM on July 31, 2006
I like the "Red Sox can't compete with the Yankees in the FA market" crap. Why can't they? They have the second highest revenues in baseball. They can compete if they want...their ownership apparently just has a different attitude about what to do with their profits than the Yankees do. I don't like either team, but I am not crying for the Red Sox in the $$ competitiveness department, that's for sure.
posted by Meathooks at 12:52 PM on July 31, 2006
Blue Jays are done 5.5 games back of the wild card with 57 games to play, and an elimination number of 54? Hey grum - I've learned from you - I, as a huge Jays fan, wish it were different, but it ain't the games back that brings me to this conclusion - it's the White Sox, Yankees, and Twins ahead of them. I mean if Detroit is a mortal lock in the Central (and they practically are), and either the Yankees (recently improved) or Red Sox taking the East - we need to beat the White Sox (possible - they're for shit right now) and the Twinkies (who have that three-headed MONSTER called Santanalirianoradke). And we know all this and can't keep a starter in the game for more than four innings whose name doesn't rhyme with "Oy Haladay". Also Baseball Prosepctus puts our post-season percentage at about a 5% chance. That was also before our little trip out West. Dude - I think they're the unlucky 92 win team that just ain't good enough.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:59 PM on July 31, 2006
I like the "Red Sox can't compete with the Yankees in the FA market" crap. Why can't they? They have the second highest revenues in baseball. You answered your own question. their ownership apparently just has a different attitude about what to do with their profits than the Yankees do. If that means investing in the farm system, I'm all for it. I don't like either team, but I am not crying for the Red Sox in the $$ competitiveness department, that's for sure. And no one's asked you to. In you actually read the thread you might realize that.
posted by justgary at 01:02 PM on July 31, 2006
The Yankees have once again done what they do best ... collect big names. This hasn't translated into world series wins as of late and I don't forsee this latest move having much impact. And what about Soriano? It's 2pm EST and possibly the most talked about team hopper is still on the Nationals.
posted by gradys_kitchen at 01:05 PM on July 31, 2006
As much as I like Hansen, I think I'd pull the trigger on that if Lester isn't involved. 'EEI says he was. Not sure why the Braves didn't ask for Fenway and NESN while they were at it. Maybe kick in the serum Dan Duquette used to make Mo Vaughn ill after he left the Sox.
posted by yerfatma at 01:50 PM on July 31, 2006
Yeah everything I've read said Lester was asked for. A little too much. I think Epstein needs to play up that Seanez is a World Fighting Champion and could not only sort of pitch for your team, but also do security.
posted by jerseygirl at 02:06 PM on July 31, 2006
The only "pleasant surprise" about Bernie Williams is that the opposing teams are "pleasantly surprised" to see him in the field at game time. Williams signed a one million dollar contract, thinking that this year wouldn't present him with many oppurtunities. Last year his BA was .249, and this year is .280. You don't mention his batting average, but are quick to bitch about his power. The Yankees got much more than they expected in Williams. Matsui is on his way back soon, and while you can argue he might face complications, he's expected to take batting practice in a week or so. Melky has shown he's capable of playing in the outfield, and now his playing time will soon be gone. Having Bobby Abreu is like buying a Ferrari- it's a luxury. They didn't need Abreu, although getting him means that other contenders (like Boston, Detroit, etc) cannot make a trade for him. As for Chacon and Ponson, their stats certainly arent appealing, but Chacon helped the Yankees tremendously down the stretch last season. With Lidle, the Yanks shouldn't need to rely on their pen as much, and it's possible that Ponson and/or Chacon could help out.
posted by redsoxrgay at 02:09 PM on July 31, 2006
I think Epstein needs to play up that Seanez is a World Fighting Champion and could not only sort of pitch for your team, but also do security. And play down the fact that he sort of sucks. They didn't need Abreu, although getting him means that other contenders (like Boston, Detroit, etc) cannot make a trade for him. Looking at what the yankees paid for Abreu I think it's safe to say the sox could have had him if they wanted him. They didn't. Also, ferrari might be a stretch. Ford Mustang maybe?
posted by justgary at 02:14 PM on July 31, 2006
Yeah ok, the Mustang works for me- lol.
posted by redsoxrgay at 02:21 PM on July 31, 2006
He doesn't suck, Gary. He's just performance challenged. Success deficient. He left the Red Sox the first time and did well. That needs to be pointed out to potential suitors also. We can sell Seanez!
posted by jerseygirl at 02:23 PM on July 31, 2006
If Joe bat Abreu third, Alex will win mvp again from the fifth spot. I would not let Sheffield go, no matter what next year. The Yankee's should take the whole thing this year if Joe use that staff right. That staff is good for two or three inning at most. So Joe use it like that. Wang and Mussina are good for seven. Matt Smith will be good one day. Next year they should win 108 games. Go Yankee go.
posted by nate at 02:23 PM on July 31, 2006
Some insight into the secret world of the Red Sox trade plans. I put Feeding the Monster on my library request list as soon as I finished the post. A very cool blog.
posted by yerfatma at 02:24 PM on July 31, 2006
If Joe bat Abreu third, Alex will win mvp again from the fifth spot. I would not let Sheffield go, no matter what next year. Not if he keeps making errors... Not let Sheffield go? How many high priced outfielders do you need?
posted by jerseygirl at 02:32 PM on July 31, 2006
You don't mention his batting average, but are quick to bitch about his power. Because batting average is one of the most overhyped and least effective stats in the game today. Just because everyone understands what it means, doesn't mean that it's worth the ink/pixels to print it. You know who else has a .280 AVG? Alex Rodriguez. Are you going to tell me that Bernie Williams is as productive as Alex Rodriguez? That why OPS (.882 vs .754) is a better measuring stick. Guess who else has a .280 AVG? Luis Castillo. Are you going to tell me that Luis Castillo is as productive as Bernie Williams? That's why OPS (.754 vs .707) is a better measuring stick. but Chacon helped the Yankees tremendously down the stretch last season. So did Aaron Small, but I don't see the Yankees clamoring for more.
posted by grum@work at 02:42 PM on July 31, 2006
We can sell Seanez! Then work your magic on tavarez while you're at it. I put Feeding the Monster on my library request list as soon as I finished the post. A very cool blog. It is quite excellent.
posted by justgary at 03:08 PM on July 31, 2006
You know who else has a .280 AVG? Alex Rodriguez. Are you going to tell me that Bernie Williams is as productive as Alex Rodriguez? That why OPS (.882 vs .754) is a better measuring stick. Yeah, but A Rod makes $25 million dollars, while Bernie makes 1 million. Batting average is important when you talk about a guy who dosent hit for much power anymore. And yes, aside from Castillos ability to steal bases, Williams and Castillo are comprable in terms of talent. Point is, adding Bobby Abreu wasn't a necessity. He's a luxury to have on a team. Even if Matsui doesnt come back for an entire month, you have Giambi, Cano, Jeter, A Rod, Posada, Damon, Melky, and Williams in the same lineup. Even without Abreu, the Yankees have a good lineup. You can argue that Williams isnt great in the field, dosent swing the bat well, whatever. but Abreu isnt something that the Yankees "needed " to do in order to make the playoffs.
posted by redsoxrgay at 03:16 PM on July 31, 2006
and it's possible that Ponson and/or Chacon could help out. chacon was traded for craig wilson.
posted by goddam at 03:32 PM on July 31, 2006
Coming from a Philadelphia native who has been lucky (or unlucky) enough to see Abreu in the clutch... Picture this: Yanks-Sox, game 7, ALCS, Sox up 3, Yanks at bat, bases loaded, two outs, Abreu at the plate...Good Luck Yankees fans. (Can you say swiiiing-and-a-miss?) Rarely does this guy come up big. Yanks did not do enough to help themselves, neither did Boston. This is going to come down to the last week unless New York's pitching falls apart.
posted by rosey8810 at 03:49 PM on July 31, 2006
I don't really see any use for Wilson but it's a creative way to get rid of one of the bad pitchers. Not really quite sure why they'd trade a capable backup with a bit of pop for a bad pitcher, but whatever. Two good deals for Cashman in two days... I'll take it. Sox were silent. I don't really think that's a bad thing for them, though I was hoping to see something creative, because I like it when there's stuff like that to read about...
posted by Bernreuther at 04:05 PM on July 31, 2006
I don't really see any use for Wilson but it's a creative way to get rid of one of the bad pitchers. i thought this would mean that phillips is gone, but cashman said he has a place on the team. guiel was optioned to columbus and surprisingly ponson has agreed to be the long (and wide) man in the pen. as much as i liked chacon, he just couldn't get it done this year. at least they got something for him since he was probably destined to be designated anyway.
posted by goddam at 04:17 PM on July 31, 2006
Rarely does this guy come up big. I can think of a couple games off the top of my head that he won. Including a 10th inning inside-the-parker. We booed Mike Schmidt so why would we appreciate Abreu? But give us a .260 CF that runs into walls and we'll put him in Cooperstown. Go figure.
posted by SummersEve at 04:21 PM on July 31, 2006
So sox stand still, and here's the yankees new (possible) lineup: C – Jorge Posada 1B – Jason Giambi 2B – Robinson Cano SS – Derek Jeter 3B – Alex Rodriguez LF – Hideki Matsui CF – Johnny Damon RF – Bobby Abreu DH – Gary Sheffield
posted by justgary at 05:22 PM on July 31, 2006
Well, next year anyway or at the very best, not until the end of the season.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:54 PM on July 31, 2006
Yeah, but A Rod makes $25 million dollars, while Bernie makes 1 million. Batting average is important when you talk about a guy who dosent hit for much power anymore In hopes of keeping grum from exploding in a rage: 1. Money doesn't figure into it. Their contracts were agreed to before the season stgarted. They're both sunk costs. 2. Batting average is a symptom, an echo of more important things. Regardless of who you are talking about, OPS, Equivalent Average, any number of stats are better measures of offensive prowess. 3. 2006 Win Shares for the Yankees. A-Rod has 15, Bernie has 5. I guess Bernie's a better value after all. Except you could get 5 win shares from a AAA outfielder for the major league minimum.
posted by yerfatma at 06:26 PM on July 31, 2006
The point was that Bernie did a good job filling in for Sheff and Matsui. Matsui will be back sooner than later, so why do they need Abreu? Melky, Bernie, and Damon are ok- for now. If you think that the difference between making the playoffs or not depends soley on Abreu, maybe thats one thing, but the Yankees have played some good ball lately. Lastly, I never compared Bernie to A Rod, I just that Bernie could fill in for Matsui for another couple of weeks- rather than taking on Abreu's contract.
posted by redsoxrgay at 07:39 PM on July 31, 2006
Except you could get 5 win shares from a AAA outfielder for the major league minimum. hey, look at that. you're right. Matsui will be back sooner than later, so why do they need Abreu? sooner than later? there's 2 months left in the season. they're talking possibly sept. 1 for matsui and mid-september for sheff. that's a full month of games, at least, with guiel and bernie platooning in right field. thanks, but, no. i love bernie, but the team is better off with him in the role that he was supposed to have in the beginning of the season. sometime dh, pinch hit, play center once in a blue moon when damon needs a day off (and only when wang is pitching). they cannot sit and wait around for matsui and sheff. you cannot guarantee that either of them will be back this year in time to make an impact on the pennant/wild card races. they can take on abreu's contract because there's a very good chance that they won't pick up sheff's option next year. and also, this deal had just as much to do with getting a 5th starter in lidle than it did with getting abreu. cashman wouldn't even have made the deal without lidle being part of it. so it wasn't all about trading for abreu.
posted by goddam at 10:01 PM on July 31, 2006
I can think of a couple games off the top of my head that he won. Including a 10th inning inside-the-parker. We booed Mike Schmidt so why would we appreciate Abreu? But give us a .260 CF that runs into walls and we'll put him in Cooperstown. Go figure. You made my point -- you can only think of a couple times! Once this year he hit a walk-off. There hasn't been too many other moments for him in that light. Yes, the ol' "we boo'ed Mike Schmidt" line. That guy busted his butt more than Bobby ever did, which is why he is respected more than Abreu. Not even up for debate.
posted by rosey8810 at 09:37 AM on August 03, 2006
o-f-f t-h-e t-o-p o-f m-y h-e-a-d. Though maybe if i spelled it out for you it'd make more sense. So let's go back over just this season... Hmm.... didn't take to long to find late game heroics: the Phillies first win of the season, Sunday, April 9th he hit a three-run homer in the bottom of the ninth. Hmm... most defintions of clutch hits also factor in a big first inning hit that puts a team ahead. Here's a 1st inning 2-run homer on April 13th that led the Phils to a 7-6 win over the Braves. 2-4 with 2 walks and a run scored as the Phillies beat the Rockies on April 15th. But the run was in the middle innings, not very "clutch" I suppose. Oopsie... would you look at that. Abreu drew a walk and scored the game winner in the 10th inning of a 7-6 win over the Nationals on April 19th. He also hit a two run homer in the 8th inning which cut the Nats' lead to one. What's the word I'm looking for... hmm... ah yes... CLUTCH. Wow, Rosey, I'm really making you look like an idiot so I'll stop after this one: Abreu hit a sac fly in the first inning, then whacked a two run double in the third... and his Phillies went on to beat the Colorado Rockies 6-5. 'K, I know i said i'd stop, but just in case here's another one... I just randomly clicked this date, and you know what? Abreu factored into a comeback win, walking in the seventh and his team down by a run. He socred the game tying run. Please, PLEASE respond. PLEASE. I'll keep going if you want me to. His fielding was frustrating, no doubt... But don't make shit up.
posted by SummersEve at 12:09 PM on August 03, 2006
i loved abreu until this year he is putting up average numbers and he will be like bernie williams in 2 years