March 15, 2006

[Post-mature comment]

posted by yerfatma at 07:58 PM on March 15, 2006

Why oh why do sportswriters feel they need to write about things other than sports? You don't see Lewis Lapham debating the relative merits of the 4-4-2 and the 4-5-1 do you?

posted by loquax at 08:15 PM on March 15, 2006

Who the hell would read all that its like 50 paragraphs long Can someone please make it shorter

posted by houston9388 at 08:17 PM on March 15, 2006

houston9388, that's the kind of thing we read here. Worry not, for there are alternatives for you. Thanks for the link, owlhouse. While some of the material does seem a little media-driven (as yerfatma points out), I think the article certainly has a number of solid observations. A lot of outdated gender assumptions come into play with cheerleading, and when you mix that with impressionable youth, you've gotta wonder about the effect.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 08:46 PM on March 15, 2006

"And then there's the fact that for the last five years America has been ripped apart by a maelstrom of cheerleader sex, substance abuse and violence." You've got to be kidding me. Someone was paid to write this bilge? Hey, genius: Here in America, you watch soccer in half-empty indoor arenas on Astroturf over a hockey rink, and have to endure (if that is the word) sexy girls with breasts of questionable origin bumping and grinding. On the other hand, in the Mother country, where there are no cheerleaders, you shoehorn yourself into a stadium where can get your skull fractured for wearing the wrong color shirt in the wrong seating area by drunken racists who are proud to be the sports world's closest thing to terrorists. Whose problem is bigger? Ours, or yours? This article is the sort of thing that I keep in mind whenever I find myself assuming that someone is intelligent simply because s/he has an British accent.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 08:59 PM on March 15, 2006

Just a couple of points. If you have read Steven Wells before, you will know that he is a big fan of American sports, and also of America in general. Disliking cheerleading doesn't mean you are on the side of Osama Bin Laden. I like most American sports, too, but I hate cheerleading. I find it sexist, embarrassing and (as I have said in another thread) naff. In any case, warning - irony alert - I don't watch sport to be entertained.

posted by owlhouse at 09:18 PM on March 15, 2006

While the cheerleader might give us a fascinating snapshot of the American Culture Wars, Natalie Adams reckons there might only be as few as 1.8m cheerleaders in the entire country. This contrasts with probably more than 10m female soccer players. Duh! It's easier to play soccer than be a cheerleader. Maybe being a good soccer player is hard, but simply being a player ain't. All you need are legs; that's the minimum requirement. The only easier sport is bowling, where all you need is one working arm. On top of that, who's to say that there aren't girls who do both? Cheerleaders sure don't show up at soccer games unless it's a championship or something! Like the soda fountain and the letter sweater, as an icon the cheerleader is well past her sell-by date. Which raises the question: Why do you find it so necessary to shove it into the trash bin of history? In his writings, singer Kurt Cobain fantasised about "cheerleaders and... football jocks" being stripped naked and humiliated at gunpoint. "They must be petrified to ever think of being the stuck-up, self-righteous, segregating, guilt-spreading, ass kissing, white right-wing republicans of the future." I've got an idea, Steve: If cheerleading pains you as much as it did Cobain, perhaps you could take a dose of the solution that he found. Click! Click! BOOM!

posted by L.N. Smithee at 09:35 PM on March 15, 2006

Straw man followed by non sequitur. You are indeed on a roll, my conservative friend.

posted by owlhouse at 09:46 PM on March 15, 2006

For those urging Wells to stick to sports - read his stuff. He wanders into cultural writing starting from the context of sports. Typically it is great stuff to read. This was interesting. Thanks for bringing it to the table (a table that is having its legs sawed off and which should crash to the floor shortly).

posted by gspm at 09:56 PM on March 15, 2006

There *were* some good points in the article, if you consider only high school cheerleading, and if you wrap dancelines in with cheer squads. At the college level, and at high schools with seperate dance lines, I think you will find the number of routines that involve the hip grinding, sexual movements to be not so prevalent. The larger question, IMO, that the article is trying to get at, and in so doing perhaps is what brings the authors credentials into question, is *why* it has happened. The madonna/whore dichotomy is not unique to cheerleaders, nor is it unique to the US, and its marketing is not unique to the US either. I find the fact that the article has been allowed to remain posted interesting from the standpoint that the premise behind it is a debate of sport/not sport. But, since it is here, I will take the opportunity to elaborate. As presented, even I would have to agree with the non-sport camp, this coming from someone who *was* a cheerleader at the DII level in college, on a squad that did not have dance routines and was filled with dedicated athletes who trained just as long and hard as the football players, basketballers and hockey players that we supported. That being said, I would hope that anyone who is in the non-sport camp for the reasons outlined in this article will consider for a moment what it means to be an athlete, and then decide for themselves whether or not someone who can tumble, jump, lift 120-150 lbs 20-30 times or more in the course of an hour and a half, and still have the stamina to keep a crowd excited, would qualify. If the person in question can do these things, and if what an athlete *does* is a sport, then I fail to see what the argument is. Again, if you look at the limited picture given in the article, you are looking at a very small slice of what cheerleading is all about.

posted by elovrich at 10:04 PM on March 15, 2006

Wells' stuff is okay, but the entire genre of foreigner with special powers of insight to get at the heart of what's going on in America is a bit tiresome to me -- I think it often tends toward cliche, writing with an overly broad brush, condescension and general sloppiness. Thanks holden, this nearly sums up my thoughts on the piece. I don't think cheerleading is as iconic as he makes it out to be, maybe in the past but not anymore. Though, I did find his ponographic/puritan america comments interesting.

posted by tron7 at 12:51 AM on March 16, 2006

I tried to read the whole article. It reeks of drivel. So what if sex is big stuff. I love sex!!Cheerleaders dont encourage me to do anything but enjoy the view. Screw the British guy with bad teeth. Jealousy is never pretty my friend. Jump around ladies, jump around.

posted by GoBirds at 04:46 AM on March 16, 2006

What sex scandal? What drug scandal? Other than the mention of the Carolina Panther cheerleaders, and that is no scandal, there is no support for these allegations. Was the author using Marty Beckerman to back up his point? Not the best source if you ask me. I am no expert on the subject, but there are differences between cheerleading squads and dance teams and pep teams. I don't know if any of them qualify as a sport and I don't care. The most solid points made in the article are about gender roles and casting. All of this stuff about sex and inappropriate dress have some merit. Before I go off on my what is wrong with America tirade I will say: Take responsibility for yourself and your children, teach them what they need to know and if something happens don't blame someone else.

posted by chuck'n'duck at 07:37 AM on March 16, 2006

I wasn't with you until the third "LOL". Now I get your point.

posted by yerfatma at 08:00 AM on March 16, 2006

A: Not enough.

posted by yerfatma at 09:09 AM on March 16, 2006

This is a somewhat lazy and confused piece on a fascinating subject. Swells piles up on dubious anecdotal evidence, which dilutes some good points he raises. For example, I would have liked to read more about cheerleading used by states to fool Title IX or about the history and agony of male cheerleading. Both of these angles would have given better insight into the topic than the freaky Marty Beckerman or the freakier Anti-Cheerleading Association ("cheerleading is kept strong by the forces of Hitler from beyond the grave"). So despite the research and good points, the article comes of as pamphlet written to upset Americans. It's working pretty good, judging by the reaction it's getting here. Also, what holden and StarFucker said.

posted by qbert72 at 09:52 AM on March 16, 2006

I can not believe that I actually took the time to read this article. I took the advise of owl and read it all. I only fell asleep twice while doing so.

posted by grabofsky74 at 11:05 AM on March 16, 2006

And, for the record, it's not like G.W. Bush is wearing a short pleated skirt in his cheerleading outfit. He was a cheerleader at Andover many, many years ago. Of course, who knows what kind of, um, personal photos he's got at home.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:32 AM on March 16, 2006

What a bunch of bullshit!!!! Why doesn't he write an article about how Racism run's rampant on English futbol!!! Then little girls are pulled out of the crowd by the cheerleaders, lined up and taught a hip-gyrating dance routine that ends with pronounced pelvic thrusts. My female companion - a British sociologist who specialises in sport and gender - nearly chokes on her salted popcorn. So showing nudity on British tv shows is o.k. but she's offended by this? Strange how they like to call the kettle black but............

posted by Grrrlacher at 11:45 AM on March 16, 2006

I think the article makes an interesting point about the conflict between cheerleaders being both innocent, sweet girls and being highly sexualized. High school kids in Texas can't really look to their older role models (Dallas Cowboys) to see how to be a great cheerleader. If you follow the steroid-type logic (prevent major leaguers from doing it to show kids that it is bad), shouldn't the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders be fully and completely dressed?

posted by bperk at 11:50 AM on March 16, 2006

So showing nudity on British tv shows is o.k. but she's offended by this? Strange how they like to call the kettle black but............ Grrrlacher -- I think a key difference here is the target. In the case of nudity on British tv, it is generally on later at night and is not targeted to young girls (or young people at all, for that matter). I read the British sociologist's reaction to be more about the fact that they pulled young girls out of the audience to teach them this, rather than the simple fact that it was going on at all. I also take issue with all of the comments from various posters re why doesn't he write about crap that goes on in British sport/society and the nasty underbelly of British sport/society. Wells' beat is American sports. He doesn't write about British sports, so the argument that he should write about socccer hooliganism, violence, etc. is nonsensical. Every article bad-mouthing (or taking a critical look at) something in the U.S. does not have to be balanced with an article bad-mouthing the U.K. or something going on there. Just like every article about a suicide bombing in Iraq does not have to be balanced with something about how swimmingly things are going with more kids going to school there now. There are plenty of good reasons to take issue with this article. I just haven't seen a lot of them in this thread.

posted by holden at 12:19 PM on March 16, 2006

Jeez, are there any knees left to jerk? To be brief, cheerleading has been oversexualized. Most football clubs now offer Lingerie calendars of their Cheerleaders... You simply cannot tell me that this doesn't filter down to the girls at a HS or College level, especially those who have asperations of someday being a Laker girl, etc... Add to the fact that the Cheerleaders are often one of the more powerful female clicques in High School, and there is a combination message sent that slutty is cool. However, I think those images are even more apparent in Media Creations like Britney Spears and the rest of her Ilk. Look at my big fake boobs while I shake my money maker... But I'm still a virgin and a christian. Oh, and last I heard, her albums sold fine in the UK. Cheerleaders are one of the symptoms of a disease... IMHO, I think we're a bit like the Japaneese, who while obsessed about sex, never discuss it. Lacking adult channels for those who crave titilation, that lingering desire is teased as a part of every program. The forbidden becomes the cherished. How can we best push right up to the line of acceptible?? A show like Grey's Anatomy is a perfect example of sex shoehorned into something that can be pawned off as "Family entertainment". If that show had been about hot young escorts or strippers, it would have never seen air. But hey, Doctors doing the same thing... Sure, why not. Personally, as a man, I find this all a bit insulting. It is an advertiser's way of telling me they think I'm dumb enough to choose my beer based on who had the hottest chick in their commercials. Or I should register with GoDaddy because I'm just a hormonally driven ape. Back to cheerleaders, I have a 4 year old girl, and about a week ago, had to explain what a "Maverick Girl" was, so I totally feel where the author is coming from. As I watched her stare at the Cheerleader in awe, the thought passed through my head... "I hope she doesn't grow up wanting to be a cheerleader...." Like Chris Rock once said, "So my number one job is to keep her off the pole." "We don't grade fathers," says Rock, "but if your daughter's a stripper you f[messed]."

posted by LostInDaJungle at 12:53 PM on March 16, 2006

I enjoy reading Wells in most instances, but I should have stopped when he quoted Marty Beckerman after saying this about him: As a 16-year-old, Beckerman was sacked from his job as a newspaper cub reporter for asking a 13-year-old cheerleader what it felt like to be "a urine stain on the toilet seat of America". Look, that doesn't make you a social critic. It makes you a grade-A dick. If Wells can't find someone more stable and thought-provoking than that turd to back his opinion, I'm not going to waste my time reading him in the future. As for his premise now, again, let's just assume that people do have the ability to think and make decisions for themselves. If Wells doesn't want his daughter to be a cheerleader, spiffy ... he can have her hang out with Beckerman and discuss piss. But don't dump on the choices of others if they aren't doing direct harm to you or the people involved. To quote the great Tim Wilson: "I'm a Libertarian. Leave my money alone, do all the heroin you want, good luck with that."

posted by wfrazerjr at 01:03 PM on March 16, 2006

Reaching our "We saved your ass in WWII" destination in 3... 2... Nah, we were just toying with those pesky Nazis until we managed to drag the Yanks into it (revenge for the War of Independence). We could have crushed those goosestepping pussies like ants if we'd been of a mind to. People need to understand that you have to take everything Swells writes with a pinch of salt. It's not meant to be taken too seriously.

posted by squealy at 02:26 PM on March 16, 2006

What a waste of time and energy! Was this suposed to be an inteligent critique? If so he missed the mark!

posted by westcoast at 04:08 PM on March 16, 2006

On the next Jerry Springer: Hip grinding/pelvic thrusting nazi cheerleaders and the British columnists they piss off.

posted by THX-1138 at 04:44 PM on March 16, 2006

Not again - Springer needs to spice up his format - same shit every week now. More like Sports Filter. Same shit every week now.

posted by chrisly13 at 06:26 PM on March 16, 2006

L.N. Smithee: This article is the sort of thing that I keep in mind whenever I find myself assuming that someone is intelligent simply because s/he has an British accent. salmacis: I have a British accent, and I am more intelligent than you. That much, I think I can safely say. Think again. Thanks for giving me another thing to keep in mind.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 06:55 PM on March 16, 2006

What a waste of time and anger. What does Ronald Regan have to do with cheerleading. I know of kids back in highschool who did far worse than some of the things he acused the cheerleaders of doing. There an easy target just like jocks. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN because I won't.

posted by kck54 at 07:20 PM on March 16, 2006

owlhouse: kck54: We realise Mr Smithee is setting himself up as an Ann Coulter wannabe, but what's your point? Ann Coulter? Please. Ann lets her desire to be the archenemy of liberalism cloud her judgment, and ends up saying cruel things that obscure any salient point she wishes to make. Given the choice of wispy conservative blondes, gimme Laura Ingraham every time.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 08:14 PM on March 16, 2006

OK...back on message... My money's on salmacis in the Smart-a-thon. And...the mere fact that cheerleading gets 61 replies on a sports blog gives it far more relevance than it ever has in my day-to-day American life.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 08:39 PM on March 16, 2006

More like Sports Filter. Same shit every week now. And that would be opinionated debate on the culture of sport. I'm coming in late here, and I don't have much to contribute (several others, most closely holden, have already stated my view), but I would like to add this: whether you view cheerleading as a sport or not, it most certainly plays a big role in the culture of sport (where else do you see cheerleaders), and since that seems to be what, in essence, this site celebrates, this post is most relevant here. Thank you, owlhouse, for providing a subject of such good debate, and without illegal supplements -- I enjoyed this article and this thread. (Just for the record: I love saying things like "culture of sport" because it makes me sound smart... when I say it with a British accent. But not Cockney. That just sounds stupid.)

posted by BullpenPro at 10:50 PM on March 16, 2006

Cherleedars is on stearoidds? Bulshit it dosent help them any This is just a wich hunt

posted by Hugh Janus at 09:56 AM on March 20, 2006