04/25/24
March 10, 2006
Vince Young Fumbles an Opportunity: Jason Whitlock: "Vince Young is clueless. And I'm not talking about his score on the Wonderlic test. I'm talking about his understanding of what it takes to make it in the NFL as a quarterback. Humility is the No. 1 ingredient."
posted by chemwizBsquared to football at 10:35 AM - 58 comments
What's wearing a tie to the White House have to do with anything?
posted by Hugh Janus at 10:48 AM on March 10, 2006
This isn't the University of Texas, and Young is no longer able to rely on his superior athleticism and instincts to outduel his competitors. I thought that this is what a quarterback is supposed to do? I started the article getting pissed off, thinking "what gives this jerkoff the right to dog on Vince Young?" Then I read further into the article, and I realized that I have not been following the "Vince Young Posse" as close as I should have. I like the confidence and the cockiness, but don't you have to prove yourself at the next level first? Beating up on my beloved Wolverines a couple of years ago doesn't prove anything. Show me that you have the skills to kick it in the NFL, and then I'll let you hang out with your boy "Black."
posted by wingnut4life at 10:53 AM on March 10, 2006
Chemwiz: I edited your post to provide a better sense of what the linked story is about.
posted by rcade at 11:12 AM on March 10, 2006
It's only reporters and fans that talk about the importance of humility. It's such crap. It's pretty clear to me that being a cocky asshole can really help someone's athletic career. Of course it goes both ways but anyone who says that being arrogantly sure of yourself is never a helpful thing is pretty much lying.
posted by xmutex at 11:21 AM on March 10, 2006
It's not like Young is running for president or something. He's a quarterback for God's sake! He's not saving the world! He's gonna get paid a ton of money doing a job that's not life affirming for the rest of us. Sports writers kill me by crucifying the same sports figures that they previously had put on a pedestal.
posted by sportluvr at 11:50 AM on March 10, 2006
tron7 - see previous post by dbt302 here. Scroll down to chris2sy's comment about (rumoured) past scores.
posted by Amateur at 12:00 PM on March 10, 2006
Yeah "being arrogantly sure of yourself" has really worked wonders for players like TO. Vince could prove us wrong; his current actions may not be an indicator of how he will approach the game. But right now it seems like he thinks all the hard work is done. Obviously pre-draft prep is different than preparing for a game, but still it is an indication of his behavior. Do you really think he is making the right moves right now? Oh and avg. score for qbs on the W. test is a 25.
posted by imsupermattt at 12:01 PM on March 10, 2006
It's pretty clear to me that being a cocky asshole can really help someone's athletic career. Well put it this way. Would you rather have a modest superstar like Barry Sanders or Emmit Smith or an arrogant asshole who is a superstar like Terrell Owens. While being cocky doesn't detract from a players skills, it can destroy the locker room enviornment and team chemistry, especially in the case of a quarterback who is expected to be the team leader.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:02 PM on March 10, 2006
calling into question vince's decision making on his agent and personal advisors (read:posse) are warranted. he clearly need better representation. however, the fact that he is arrogant and cocky is irrelevant, IMO. i can think of two athletes (both were NFL QB's) who were both "cocky" before the draft and had dramatically different careers- john elway and ryan leaf.
posted by ksb122 at 12:05 PM on March 10, 2006
Sounds like to me another Doug Williams saga is being played out here. But remember "The Quarter" that Doug Williams had in the Super Bowl against the favorite Denver Broncos when they got ambushed by the Redskins in that game. This guy can play and he will make crow eaters out of all of yaaaaa
posted by Daddy-O at 12:18 PM on March 10, 2006
Thanks Amateur, I was on vacation.
posted by tron7 at 12:24 PM on March 10, 2006
I've liked Jason Whitlock since he spoke at a sports editor's function I attended in St. Louis. I think he's using his platform to try and get in Young's head and give him a little advice, and we'll see if it works. Anyone else think if a white columnist had written this, he'd be a racist?
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:37 PM on March 10, 2006
First of all, I was surprised with Whitlock on this one, he's usually pretty insightful. But he's gotten off on some wild-assed tangent here. Most of what he talks about in this rant is utterly irrelevant. In terms of Young's preparation, time will tell, but I am sure of one thing....He is a competitor. If he fumbles trying to make a big play in a game he won't hang his head and give up (are you listening Reggie). Also, Whitlock says you can't make it in the NFL on instinct and athleticism???? That's 90% of what you "make it" on. I could prepare and watch film until I knew more than Peyton and the Schwab combined and I STILL couldn't be an NFL quarterback, becuase I lack the instinct and athleticism! A very ignorant, unfounded, self promoting, hey everybody look at me it's Jason article IMO...... Yes I do.....to wfrazerjr
posted by challack at 12:41 PM on March 10, 2006
What's wearing a tie to the White House have to do with anything? I'll go along and pretend that this poster was not kidding. It is just another example of Vince not taking his tremendous opprortunity, the NFL Draft, serious. Not to mention the opportunity to visit the White House. It is this general lack of regard for his public perception that will cost Vince millions.
posted by Termite at 12:59 PM on March 10, 2006
thanks man...yeah I got that story from a friend at UT right now and he's all pissed off at Vince for how he's acting. I agree with challack. 90% is based on athleticism...the problem is...EVERYONE makes it based on the 90%. Its that other 10% that makes the difference between a Peyton Manning and a Ryan Leaf, a Donnovan McNabb and a Tim Couch...and Vince is bordering on Leaf/Couch territory right now.
posted by chemwizBsquared at 01:01 PM on March 10, 2006
Another Mike Vick, who in my opinion will never win a superbowl.
posted by wvu1fan at 01:31 PM on March 10, 2006
Another Mike Vick, who in my opinion will never win a superbowl. Please elaborate. Further, please explain why it's is specifically 100% Vick's fault the Falcons haven't won a Super Bowl.
posted by yerfatma at 02:03 PM on March 10, 2006
Another Mike Vick, who in my opinion will never win a superbowl. That's hardly a knock against Vick. Some of the best quarterbacks in the league never win one.
posted by rcade at 02:11 PM on March 10, 2006
I particularly like the "not some let's-hit-the-strip-clubs posse member." I think that it does not matter who wrote this article, it's racist any way you look at it. If your posse wear "white T's," and "bling bling," then they are people of low moral character? What is the implication here. This article made me very upset, I just can't get past all of the implications that he is making about a talented, typically respectful, young, prominent man. Just because Vince does not do it his way does not mean Vince is doing it wrong.
posted by everett at 02:20 PM on March 10, 2006
he fact that Young had to take the Wonderlic twice in order to score a 16 is an indication to me that Young did not prepare for the test, particularly the first time the fact that this guy is making up stories is an indication he's an idiot. By all factual reports, Young had to take the test the 2nd time because they misgraded his first (graded it against the incorrect test version) His 6 was the result of that. But far be it for the media to avoid spreading false information. Lets all watch as this guy is the #3 pick in the draft and see how much Whitlock really knows about the NFL.
posted by bdaddy at 02:30 PM on March 10, 2006
true dat bdaddy
posted by everett at 02:31 PM on March 10, 2006
I am glad to see someone whos not afraid to criticize UT's messiah. He is the most over rated QB in the draft, not the worst but without a doubt not the best and for sure the farthest away from having a Roethlisberger-like rookie season. Just look at Alex Smith another shotgun QB......OVER RATED! -GIG'EM
posted by cowboyfan82 at 02:34 PM on March 10, 2006
Actually, I remember everyone in the media actively discussing how overrated Alex Smith was by the 49ers. This is simply not anywhere near the same situation. Vince young: He's young.... but overrated? I think not.
posted by everett at 02:43 PM on March 10, 2006
Now is Alex Smith overrated because he's not that good, or because he is part of a team that has NO offensive protection whatsoever? Name a quarterback that had a career year when they had no o-line? I imagine it's possible but I would not bet my money on it.
posted by blakrain at 02:45 PM on March 10, 2006
-GIG'EM Yet another objective member.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 02:47 PM on March 10, 2006
That's hardly a knock against Vick. Some of the best quarterbacks in the league never win one. Yes, Joey Harrington is still on par with somebody!
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:50 PM on March 10, 2006
wait... Joey actually sucks...
posted by everett at 02:59 PM on March 10, 2006
Getting back to the arrogance thing...Primetime Deion Sanders ring any bells? Only man to EVER play in both a Superbowl and a World Series. Was the most coveted free agent in 94 and 95...guess what the teams he signed with in 94 and 95 won the Super Bowl...94 Defensive MVP...Best corner ever...the G.O.A.T...was pretty damn arrogant but still a great teammate...Vince did lead the nation in passer efficiency...Vince also beat the mighty Trojans...at what was pretty much a home game...my 2 cents
posted by Drallig9399 at 03:27 PM on March 10, 2006
The big test will come when Young gets put behind a sub-par line or just an average one at that. He may be able to take big game pressure at the college level but look at what will happen when he starts to get pressure from actual players on the field. Its not an Aggie prejudice, I'm just not sold on him yet or Vick for that matter.
posted by cowboyfan82 at 03:32 PM on March 10, 2006
Did you watch the championship? There were as many Texans in there as USC fans.
posted by cowboyfan82 at 03:35 PM on March 10, 2006
I am glad to see someone whos not afraid to criticize UT's messiah. He is the most over rated QB in the draft, not the worst but without a doubt not the best and for sure the farthest away from having a Roethlisberger-like rookie season. Just look at Alex Smith another shotgun QB......OVER RATED! most overrated? I'd be interested in knowing your qualifications for judging football talent. And what QB is going to have a Roethlisburger rookie season? He's the first since Marino to have that kindof season, and now you expect it of QBs? Funny how a cowboys fan is criticizing Alex Smith after his first season...did you jump on that same bandwagon after Aikman's horrible rookie year? -GIG'EM oh, that explains it. Nevermind.
posted by bdaddy at 03:41 PM on March 10, 2006
Its not an Aggie prejudice oh, of course not. It doesn't sound at all like that... I mean calling the winning national championship QB who put on the most brilliant football performance in perhaps history on college footballs greatest stage "the most overrated in the draft". That's all based on your own football expertise, not at all on the prejudice built up from your rival team winning the national championship game.
posted by bdaddy at 03:46 PM on March 10, 2006
by the way, the most overrated QB in the draft is not a guy whose lost only 2 or 3 games in his college career and had the highest QB efficiency rating in the nation this year. The most overrated QB in the draft is the guy who didn't have a winning season this year and whose every highlight clip shows him throwing off his back foot, yet is somehow skyrocketing up the draft boards. You know..the one they're comparing to Favre?
posted by bdaddy at 03:49 PM on March 10, 2006
No doubt that Deion Sanders is a great example of a cocky player who really made the grade. As a Cowboy Fan I hated Deion when he was a 49er, his arrogant, smart-assed comments really bugged me but then when he became a Cowboy I realized that he was just confident and quick witted and his teammates loved him. Vince is no Deion Sanders.
posted by Termite at 03:52 PM on March 10, 2006
Did I say Aikman is the best QB to ever breathe? Did I say Roethlisberger is perfect and needs no work? No, what I meant is that he came in and did more in a rookie season than most QBs do in their first three seasons including Aikman. Yes, over rated. When I watched texas play I saw a very dominant defense and an o-line that paved the way for an above average but not great QB with great athletic ability. You texas fans need to give your o-line more credit and your WR for that matter. They are probably the only people who can catch Youngs "accurate passes"
posted by cowboyfan82 at 04:05 PM on March 10, 2006
Would rather see a texas team win than a California team or Florida team for that matter. A rival team yes but still a big 12 partner
posted by cowboyfan82 at 04:08 PM on March 10, 2006
Who has been compared to favre?
posted by cowboyfan82 at 04:14 PM on March 10, 2006
Who has been compared to Favre? I'm not sure, but I'm combing NCAA statistics right now for a QB who consistently throws interceptions into double and triple coverage and also gets constant blowjobs from TV announcers who can't admit his decision making sucks. Anyone got any leads?
posted by wfrazerjr at 04:23 PM on March 10, 2006
man this stuff has got to stop just because you don't understand someone is no reason to dog them. peyton manning for all the good ol' boys he has around and good guy image ain't won nothing. if steve mcnair came out and said he was not hired to help vince young in the event that they drafted him the whole world would blow up and would cry and say he's not a team player. Yet everyone's favorite overrated QB of all time does this in Green Bay and people say well that really isn't his job. no one gives a damn if he hangs with a possee as long as when he steps on the field that he wins games. all you people who continue to live in the past wake up, and realize YOUNG is the only one who will have to deal with people messing up his money and when he learns it will be his problem not yours stop being jealous of a young man who has some success and now wants to include people around him.
posted by byrdman822 at 04:48 PM on March 10, 2006
Who has been compared to favre? Jay Cutler from Vanderbilt. Used to be a girls school.
posted by irunfromclones at 05:19 PM on March 10, 2006
jay cutler ain't got hisself nothing. He's about to take a bunch of someone's money just because he has that good ol' boy backing he'll end up being a career back-up if he's lucky
posted by byrdman822 at 05:37 PM on March 10, 2006
Wow, it's Jay? He played at Heritage Hills High School in Santa Claus, IN. That's right ... Santa Claus, Indiana. I was the newspaper publisher there a couple years ago. He apparently wasn't very highly recruited, but has really blossomed. My only tenuous connection is that I procured a Cutler game jersey from the friendly folks at Vandy for an auction I was helping out with. The guy who bought that might have a pretty amazing deal down the road.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:43 PM on March 10, 2006
jay cutler ain't got hisself nothing. He's about to take a bunch of someone's money just because he has that good ol' boy backing he'll end up being a career back-up if he's lucky yessah, ain't no one from a small school any bit of good! jes like dat ole boy from mississippi valley state got hisself all dem nfl receivin records. He was a good ole boy too.
posted by irunfromclones at 05:56 PM on March 10, 2006
that you would even bring the greatest receiver in NFL history into this goes to show that you missed what it's all about. Everyone knows not all great players come from big towns I'm just saying this particular kid just doesn't have it.
posted by byrdman822 at 06:01 PM on March 10, 2006
jason might be right on vince not having the most notable(experienced)reps, and the kid himself might not have his head on straight as of yet,but he has some serious talent and I'd hate to be the G.M. who bypasses him in the draft. Leinart is good not great(talent galore at USC)and Cutler has intangibles(arm,size)but if I have to bet the house(and wife) I'm going Vince Young.
posted by chant at 06:03 PM on March 10, 2006
and Cutler has intangibles(arm,size) I believe arm and size are rather tangible.
posted by tron7 at 06:23 PM on March 10, 2006
Playing quarterback in the NFL is the equivalent of getting in the sack with Jenna Jameson. Oh, everybody wants to do it, but it can be an incredibly humbling and "short" experience. That comment put a cap on a long day.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 06:30 PM on March 10, 2006
VY is among the greats in the college game, but until i see him take a snap from under center and drop back, i'm skeptical. not about his skills, but about whether an nfl team is going to gear their team to his talents or if they're going to force-feed him into a system that negates his strengths
posted by ninjavshippo at 07:08 PM on March 10, 2006
Brodie Croyle might end up a steal in the draft if he stays healthy.
posted by cowboyfan82 at 08:23 PM on March 10, 2006
ninjavshippo is onto something
posted by cowboyfan82 at 08:31 PM on March 10, 2006
wvu1fan: Another Mike Vick, who in my opinion will never win a superbowl. Yeah. That Vick, he's no Trent Dilfer.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 09:24 PM on March 10, 2006
Playing quarterback in the NFL is the equivalent of getting in the sack with Jenna Jameson. Oh, everybody wants to do it, but it can be an incredibly humbling and "short" experience. Is Whitlock making a confession here?
posted by L.N. Smithee at 09:28 PM on March 10, 2006
Termite: As a Cowboy Fan I hated Deion when he was a 49er, his arrogant, smart-assed comments really bugged me but then when he became a Cowboy I realized that he was just confident and quick witted and his teammates loved him. I'm a Niner fan, and while I didn't like Deion, I was happy he was on our side for that brief period. He helped get S.F. its last Super Bowl (the way things are going, maybe the last ever). I appreciated Sanders with all his arrogance more when I witnessed T.O.'s transformation into a raging egomaniac.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 09:35 PM on March 10, 2006
The author spoke of the humility of Vince Young, this guy is so freakin' arrogant. I was watching an interview on ESPN with Vince Young before the national championship game, he was asked the question, "Who do you think is the best University of Texas football player ever." His reply was, "Me."
posted by garnet&blackattack at 09:39 PM on March 10, 2006
VY's first W-lick test was "graded against the incorrect test version." Does that mean he he actually got a 44? Me thinks there was some really stupid stuff going on or maybe he actually is a genius and everyone else can't figure it out. Maybe the testers need to take it and have their scores revealed. In any case I would take ML and Cutler over him any day.....Class does count....
posted by gfinsf at 12:34 AM on March 11, 2006
Brodie Croyle might end up a steal in the draft if he stays healthy. posted by cowboyfan82 at 8:23 PM CST on March 10 My sentaments(sp) exactly. Just didn't want to come across as a homer. The kids got the ability (IMO) to play pro ball, but his durability is in question. While not the tallest QB is arm is strong and very accurate. So if being humble and gracious is a positive for pro players as this column sugests here is a bit of background on Brodie's upbringing. From: http://www.bigoak.org/familybuilders.asp Every day we are affected by rules and regulations. There aren't too many areas of our lives where there are no "rules." Whether we like it or not, we have to pay income taxes, follow the speed limit, or abide by some other rule or regulation along the way - or we pay a consequence of some sort. Many of today's children are not taught to adhere to rules at home. Once they get into the real world where there are "checks and balances" at every turn, they get hammered because you and I didn't prepare them for this journey called life. Our children are counting on you and me to teach them the skills they need to make it in the real world, and one of those skills is learning when to take "no" for an answer. We have all seen examples of children who have not yet learned this skill in restaurants, shopping malls, etc. Children will test their boundaries - we just need to make sure that we have sound and secure boundaries set, and that we stick to them. Let's be sure you and I are not the reason for our children's failure to learn to abide by the rules, no matter what area of life it is in - at school, on the football field, on the road, or in their future relationships. Let's send our children into the real world knowing that they have the tools necessary to be a success! John Croyle one day perhaps ill learn how the link thingy works
posted by Folkways at 09:17 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by gfinsf at 12:34 AM CST on March 11 In any case I would take ML and Cutler over him any day.....Class does count Some of you people never cease to amaze me, just because you once again don't understand who VY really is you automatically make this kid out to be bad get out and get some life `
posted by byrdman822 at 09:25 AM on March 12, 2006
What's a good score on the Wonderlic test?