January 22, 2006

Sox reach deal for CF Crisp: Team also ready to sign shortstop Gonzalez, while giving up Marte, Mota.

posted by dyams to baseball at 07:44 AM - 33 comments

This would be a great move to bolster the Sox in center, but losing Marte may be hurting their long-term chances of solidifying third. One question I still have is why there's such an attraction to Jeff DaVanon, who Cleveland says they may be looking at as a possible replacement for Crisp. The guy seems to me to be nothing more than an average role player. Now the team needs to keep Manny in their lineup, and the AL East dogfight can begin.

posted by dyams at 07:48 AM on January 22

That seems like a high price for Crisp, but I suppose he's an established MLB player. I like that the article doesn't get specific about which Alex Gonzalez, given that they both suck.

posted by yerfatma at 08:16 AM on January 22

Just another HUGE example of the Tribe shooting themself in the foot. Letting another potential all star leave. Look over the years and the Tribe has given away one hell of an all star team..... Graig Nettles, Chris Chambliss, Coco Crisp, Ritchie Sexton, Brian Giles, Jay Bell, Joe Carter, Jay Bell, Joey Bell, Bert Blyleven, Manny Ramirez, the list can go on for days! dysms has it right...What exactly is the attraction to DaVanon?

posted by LiveWithIt at 08:30 AM on January 22

Now that Montreal is gone, someone's gotta develop players and trade them away to prosper elsewhere.

posted by Taterfarm at 08:51 AM on January 22

I like that the article doesn't get specific about which Alex Gonzalez, given that they both suck. You're right, yerfatma, as I've had problems over the past few years figuring out exactly which one's which. Neither of them are good offensively, and aren't too good at getting on base. Solid defense for the Sox at short has to be worth something. All these changes up the middle, though. It's going to look like a different squad out there. dyams has it right...What exactly is the attraction to DaVanon? I guess the attraction is he's available. As a smaller market team, Cleveland still manages to develop some excellent talent, although they can't always manage to keep them in Cleveland for long. It would be nice to see them build on last year and make the playoffs this season. I don't think they would have made the deal if they didn't have a definite plan for moving forward. They're sending center fielders out of town on a yearly basis.

posted by dyams at 09:05 AM on January 22

The question for the Sox is whether Mike Lowell's last year was just a speed bump, or if his physical problems are finally catching up to him. If he can still be a near All-Star at third base, the deal is great, because Crisp has a major up-side that Damon doesn't. But if Lowell is declining, the loss of Marte will REALLY hurt. This guy has been a major prospect right along, and seems likely to live up to his potential. On the other hand, since the Indians have Sizemore and a lot of outfielders, they can afford to give up Crisp for Marte, so this could be a win-win trade. Jim

posted by Jim Benton at 09:40 AM on January 22

Why does Cleveland do this year after year.

posted by tpt at 10:12 AM on January 22

as a sox fan i like the trade, i'm more against trading pitching prospects, so losing Marte was worth getting Crisp, we also had a glut of relief pitchers, i would have rather lost Seanz, but overall i'm happy

posted by ndnjon at 11:22 AM on January 22

I like this trade better from the sox perspective, I really like Crisp's upside. All they give up as there bargaining chip and a prospect, seems like a good deal.

posted by tron7 at 01:20 PM on January 22

this was a great trade for the Redsox because Mota was really kind of worthless and wat happens if marte is a dud and lowell has a career year. I think the redsox got the best of the deal

posted by RedSox21 at 02:17 PM on January 22

I think that's a great deal for the Sox. I've followed Crisp as a fill-in pickup on fantasy teams over the past two years (well, last season he was more than that) and he's unpolished but overall a player with a lot of promise - and not way out in the future promise but right now. I think it's totally possible for him to be a top-5 CF in the AL this season and even to outshine Damon. (please don't quote this however if he falls flat on his face moving from Cleveland to the Sox, which is always a possibility). At SS - the Sox sure have gone down a long way from Nomar. I personally feel that SS is a position where you really need stability, and though Cabrera and Renteria were fine, this revolving door is far far from optimal.

posted by mikelbyl at 03:06 PM on January 22

the indians are dumb... coco is a great player and instead of sending out good players for prospects, we need to get some major league talent to improve on last year and get to the playoffs

posted by gosoccer841 at 03:32 PM on January 22

the indians are not dumb; the reason they were as good as they were last year is bc of stockpiling gems in their farm system. marte could be an infield rock for years to come. i'm surprised the bosox traded him away. i get the "must-win-now" attitude, but i believe in the long run, the indians got the best of this one. let me get some of that bosox kool aid. you got their 3rd best outfielder. a defensive upgrade for you, but not the coup you're making it out to be.

posted by ninjavshippo at 03:41 PM on January 22

but i believe in the long run, the indians got the best of this one. Depends. Many highly touted prospects never pan out. So... depends. Not thrilled about giving up Marte, but its 4 weeks before Spring Training... have to do something.

posted by jerseygirl at 05:04 PM on January 22

many = some.

posted by jerseygirl at 05:50 PM on January 22

I had my doubts about Shapiro as a GM, but I like what he's been doing with the team. I'm not worried about the Coco Crisp deal -- the Tribe has plenty of young talent that can play in the outfield and do some damage at the plate. I think they have a legitimate shot at the playoffs in '06 -- they built a lot of condifence in '05 with that stretch run they made.

posted by gdvbranz at 05:53 PM on January 22

Yep - seriously guys, If Coco Crisp is so good, why is he third or fourth on the Indians' outfield depth chart? I mean, the Indians aren't dumping a potential killer salary here - they simply have better players. I think this is a prime example of a 'best of what's rest' type deal that was a slightly better option for this year, rather than signing a Jeremy Reed. Hard to figure out what the BoSox are going to be like this year.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:58 PM on January 22

i dont think the sox came out of this in any better of a situation than before they made the trade because frankly as yerfatma put it, alex gonzales sucks. as for crisp, ya hes a decent center fielder but to get him they gave up a good reliever, (which will come back to bite them if any of their releivers get injured, esspecially timlin who is gettin old) and marte which will also come back to haunt them unless the ever less physically fit Mike Lowell somehow shoots back to the cream of the crop in terms of third baseman which not many people would bet on

posted by bronxbomber at 10:12 PM on January 22

Indian's RULE!

posted by ed mond at 10:37 PM on January 22

Indians Rule!

posted by ed mond at 10:38 PM on January 22

i dont think the sox came out of this in any better of a situation than before they made the trade because frankly as yerfatma put it, alex gonzales sucks. as for crisp, ya hes a decent center fielder but to get him they gave up a good reliever, (which will come back to bite them if any of their releivers get injured, esspecially timlin who is gettin old) and marte which will also come back to haunt them unless the ever less physically fit Mike Lowell somehow shoots back to the cream of the crop in terms of third baseman which not many people would bet on That's certainly a lot of "what ifs" you got there, BB. What if a meteorite falls on David Ortiz while he's out one fine evening star gazing? We do not have an equally clutch backup DH in the farm system! Chaos! Mayhem! I don't know how Red Sox Nation slept last night knowing that! There's a reason there are in-season trades. There's no way in hell you can have a durable, viable, big-league ready replacement for EVERYONE sitting in your farm system for the "what ifs" on the older players, on the star gazers, on any of them. They've got a weird glut of middle infielders and likely, they'll trade Graffanino in the next couple weeks. They've still got a backup in Kevin Youkilis who can play third. The Red Sox bullpen, oddly enough, is sort of stacked. Right now, if they don't end up trading Wells, they've got 7 starters (Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Arroyo, Clement, Wakefield, Papelbon). If it's status quo in April, Arroyo and Papelbon will likely end up in the pen with whomever they go with out of DelCarmen, DiNardo, Foulke, Hansen, Timlin, Seanez, and Tavarez. So Timlin "getting old" shouldn't be catastrophic or biting anyone. Like I said, not psyched about giving up Marte, but they got themselves behind the 8 ball a month before Spring Training and they weren't just going to get Crisp for nothing.

posted by jerseygirl at 05:30 AM on January 23

The trade, according to the Boston Globe this morning, moves Marte, Shoppach and Mota for Crisp, Riske and Bard. So we'd be getting a catcher and reliever in return, also.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:12 AM on January 23

It seems to me that Red Sox fans should be dancing in the streets over this deal. I am very high on Marte, but in this deal the Sox flip a high prospect with minimal ML experience for another high prospect whose shown success at that level. Additionally, as jerseygirl rightly pointed out, the Sox are dealing from a position of some depth (3B) and filling two holes in their lineup -- CF and top of the order -- in one deal. On top of that, they are ditching a good reliever who was hurt last year for a very good reliever who was not hurt. I know Shoppach has drawn interest from other teams, and I don't know too much about Bard, but from the outside this looks like a Red Sox slam dunk. The only explanation I can see from Cleveland's perspective is a salary issue, since this deal creates a hole without filling any. Even if they snag Michaels from Philly, these deals don't make too much sense from a strictly-on-field perspective. 72 phone calls is a good indication that the Sox thought this was their only good option, and by all appearances that is right. What a huge coup... it has to be the good luck Theo brought with him when he got back on board.

posted by BullpenPro at 07:30 AM on January 23

Crisp is a good player. I am not sure why Cleveland would trade him. The AL Central is the toughest in MLB. Cleveland will someday come to regret this trade.

posted by daddisamm at 08:17 AM on January 23

As far as I can tell, nothing is finalized yet and the deal won't happen unless the Indians acquire a replacement outfielder. That may be my denial shining through, as I would hate like hell to see Coco go. I sure wouldn't say he was 3rd or 4th on the Tribe outfielder depth chart - he's second behind Grady Sizemore. He makes some sweet plays. He has been consistently underrated by Tribe management, and I'm not sure why. They offered him just a bit more than they offered Ben Broussard, which must have been something of a slap in the face.

posted by pooch at 11:16 AM on January 23

What a huge coup .300, 16 HR, 69 RBI, 15 SB, .810 OPS (5th best on his team, 62nd best in league). for a corner outfielder. yeah. what a huge coup. *yawn*

posted by ninjavshippo at 12:57 PM on January 23

Compare the figgers:

Last year, [Crisp] hit .300 with 16 homers, 42 doubles, 69 RBIs, a .345 OBP, and a .810 OPS (on-base percentage plus slugging) and was named best defensive left fielder by the Hardball Times. He played left rather than center because the Indians have another young talent there in Grady Sizemore. Damon hit .316 with 10 homers, 35 doubles, 75 RBIs, a .366 OBP, and a .805 OPS last season.
He'll be a CF this year and his 2005 numbers were close to Damon's. Plus he has a bit of an age (and price) advantage.

posted by yerfatma at 01:22 PM on January 23

what a huge coup. *yawn* Ninja: my comments, and use of the word "coup," were not intended to be a pointed reference to your specific comments above - the expression was a coincidence that I didn't notice until going back over your observations just now. Having said that, I do think you may be looking at the deal in the wrong way. Looking only at Crisp's numbers from last year, I agree that the acquisition is good but not great. However, when you put it in the context of Boston's position -- looking, this late into the off-season, at no good options in center field OR at the top of the order -- this is a pretty big deal. Being able to fill both needs with an above average fixture is a big accomplishment (assuming, of course, that the deal DOES go through), especially when you consider all of these: 1. In getting Crisp, the Red Sox did not have to compromise their pitching staff at all (in fact, they probably improved it) AND they didn't create a new hole anywhere else in their roster; 2. In Crisp, the Sox get arguably a defensive UPGRADE from last year, without losing much, if anything, in offense. 3. In Crisp, the Sox get younger. Crisp's numbers have steadily improved over his four seasons and he is only 26, meaning he has much growth and productivity to come. 4. Crisp will cost roughly $10 million less than they would have spent on Damon or any other equivalent outfielder. Big coup. I stand by that statement. What would Boston do if they didn't get Crisp? Then you'd REALLY be yawning. For now, you may want to reserve that yawn for the Sox's new shortstop... or the Indians' Crisp-replacement.

posted by BullpenPro at 02:30 PM on January 23

guys, the sox dont need a center fielder. we have the rookie anderson to take rowands place. anderson will do a great job on the field and at the plate. REMEMBER WHEN HE HAD THE 2 HOME RUN GAME LAST SEASON?

posted by siouxhocky at 08:49 PM on January 23

On pace for 324, huh?

posted by yerfatma at 05:41 AM on January 24

Red Sox, not White Sox. It helps if you... Oh, I don't know... read the damn thread. Least you could do was mouse over the link.

posted by jerseygirl at 07:04 AM on January 24

The indians have some questions about Mota's shoulder. Let's hope it doesn't keep this deal from happening. And now Theo is back as GM. We need to settle all of this drama before pitchers and catchers report.

posted by usfbull at 08:39 AM on January 25

It may be posturing by the Indians to try to get a better deal now that some outlets are looking at this trade as a win for the Sox.

posted by yerfatma at 09:14 AM on January 25

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