December 14, 2005

Is sport worth risking your life for?: Personally I say...yes.

posted by commander cody to hockey at 02:36 AM - 54 comments

Aside from the legal liability of the Red Wings, the NHL, Fischer's doctors, his responsibility to his family and fiance, and his teammates, there's this: Continuing to play not only foolishly risks his life, but it affects the way any game he is in is played. Opposing players would probably be unlikely to ever hit him, his teammates would never set him up with a risky pass where he could be hit; in short, they would probably treat him like a girl. That is, in the sense that whenever as a kid we played street hockey, if there were girls playing we slowed down a bit, didn't hit, and kept our shots low. Playing ice hockey, one or two teams had a girl on the roster, and the same thing happened whenever one of them was on the ice. It happened at almost a reflexive level. By the same token his presence on the ice would result in a similar shift in the dynamic of the game, and detract from it. His choice affects so many other people. And if he dies on the ice, how does that affect the mental well-being of all of his friends, families, and teammates? So, is a sport worth risking your life for? No. Especially if you consider all the factors involved. Decisions do not occur in a vacuum where they only affect you - there are always consequences. In the end, sports aren't about justice or freedom or equality (things worth risking your life for), sports are about entertainment, competition and making money. They can be worthwhile pursuits, but to say they are worth risking your life for says a lot about what you and our society value as most important, and in my opinion, evinces seriously misplaced priorities. Perhaps the 'get rich or die trying' ethos is more widely accepted than I had previously realized.

posted by insomnyuk at 03:34 AM on December 14

It's way too bad that such a good player has to be hit with a flaw such as this, but nonetheless, he should rehab himself first, then make a decision. So should Mario, who has a similar effect, albeit at a much more advanced age. It is no picnic having heart disease, much less any other troubles, but hockey is a rough sport, and he is not just affecting himself, as you mention, commander. He's going to be playing off everyone else's reactions as well, and he owes his family at least the opportunity to see him live as long as he can. The RedWings can offer him a coaching position or another less strenuous placement after his doctors clear him to resume activity, but he shouldn't be playing. Of course, what we think here will probably have no effect on what he does, but it's good to think that he might consider how his fans feel about him (which he has said he is).

posted by mrhockey at 06:08 AM on December 14

Lotta good perspective in that article. When you talk about risking your life for sport, commander cody, in this case you're talking about Jiri Fischer risking everything else he might ever be (father? teacher? plain old ordinary decent human being who commits various acts of kindness over an 80-year lifespan?) against a known risk that has just manifested itself in a most blunt manner. As Fischer says, hockey is indeed what he's worked for his whole life...and it is a personal decision whether with that taken away, life is no longer worth living. But if he cannot see his human potential beyond that one thing, then the people in his life who've raised him, taught him, loved him and befriended him have done him a profound disservice.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:19 AM on December 14

In my opinion, the bottom line here is he should be able to continue playing if he wants and his doctors clear him. As long as he doesn't pose a health threat to anyone else, how can we stop him? I don't believe the other teams will take it easy on him for long, especially after he delivers a few hard checks to them.

posted by Big D Alexander at 07:04 AM on December 14

I feel for Jiri Fischer and what he may be going through. Right now, he is hurt, angry and scared. There maybe something different planned for Jiri. There will be alot of people who think they know whats best for this young man. However, Jiri will be they only that can answer that question.

posted by daddisamm at 08:15 AM on December 14

I gots to agree with Big D. Jiri is a big boy, he understands the risks involved with stepping back on the ice. The league has every right to keep him from playing (if they have rules about your eye sight being too poor I am sure they will take exception to a bum ticker) so I don't expect to Jiri out there, but if by some miracle he is cleared I say let him go for it.

posted by HATER 187 at 08:33 AM on December 14

It only happened three weeks ago - it's understandable that he'd feel this way. Common sense says "don't be ridiculous, you're never playing competitive hockey again at any level", but you can't just switch off 25 years of wanting to play hockey and be the best at it in three weeks. Is sport worth dying for? Catch a grip. Still, this guy might want to take advice from a doctor who doesn't say idiotic things like: "I have not seen a case here in the United States that someone in a professional sport has suffered a cardiac arrest and a) survived it and b) gone back and played." Reminds me of Top Secret: *into phone* "Yes... I see... fine... let me know if there's any change in his condition." *hangs up* "How is he?" "He's dead."

posted by JJ at 08:59 AM on December 14

Its up to Jiri to decide if he shouls play. As fans, we need to realize that sports isnt everything. Too much attention is given to the "big" contract or winning a "ring". I do hope and pray that the people around Jiri see the bigger picture. That there is more to life than Hockey.

posted by daddisamm at 09:48 AM on December 14

That there is more to life than Hockey. That is a filthy lie.

posted by HATER 187 at 09:48 AM on December 14

That there is more to life than Hockey. There me be more to your life than hockey, but not necasarily Fischer's. You have to keep in mind that hockey is the man's profession. It is the only thing he has known for most of his life. To the rest of us it's just a spectator sport (the finest spectator sport, albeit). It would be like someone telling you to stop what you have been doing for a career for the past twenty years and find something else to do, regardless how much you love what you are doing now. It's true, Jiri is only 25 years old and has the rest of life to look forward to, but what is the quality of that life if one of the things he is most passionate about is so abrubtly stripped from his life? I personally couldn't fault Jiri for wanting to play again, nor could I fault him for hanging up his skates. Good luck to him.

posted by willthrill72 at 10:47 AM on December 14

I think it's a little early to suggest that this is a life vs. death debate - they haven't even figured out what caused his cardiac episode. However, if it turns out that he is at risk, I wonder if insurance and the team would clear him to play. He could be forcibly retired - perhaps for his own good. I watched the press coference he gave and that is a very emotional man right now. Give everyone a couple weeks to help put things into perspective and then assess. If it is a question of living or playing hockey and dying - I'm going to stick with B. I think Fischer would too.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:54 AM on December 14

Just for a change, this is being broken down into a black and white - should he play hockey and probably kill himself by doing so, or should he meekly retire and live the rest of his life wishing he could play hockey? There's a third option, and it's the one I hope he takes - retire and then work out how to find something more constructive to do with the rest of his life than wish he could be doing something else. I'd chose to live. We all would. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit and trying to look hard, or severly mentally incapable (Weedy, I'm taking it as read that you're still both). I also suspect, having had one heart-attack, even if he's brave enough to chose death in the 'retirement or death' debate, he won't be looking forward to the next one. If he retires, it's a sad story, but it has something good about it. If he plays again and he dies because of it, I have no sympathy and no qualms in calling him a selfish prick. You don't have to look too far to find another example of such behaviour in the sporting world - George Best ploughed through his life justifying every decision with "It's my life and I'll do what I like," but whether he liked it or not, other people were involved in that life, and hurt beyond measure by his behaviour. Amid the clamour of gushing admiration after he died, I was disappointed not to hear more people calling him an asshole, as he undeniably was. He said he hoped and expected that when he died people would remember him for the football. I won't. To me, he'll always be the fat, old, stupid disgrace of a man who couldn't get his shit together for five consecutive minutes. [/rant]

posted by JJ at 11:16 AM on December 14

Yeah - I'm severly mentally incapable, but I meant to say "A" - I'd chose 'to live' and do something else. Mild brain fart.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:17 PM on December 14

I'm not the biggest hockey fan but i like the game. I think it is his decision to play. Who knows how it will end. but you never know. just like in life you never know when and how you will die. when death comes you can't out run it. so what is the big deal. we are all going to die. we know this and he is a big boy. you always hear people say i'd rather die than...so he's putting his life were his mouth is.and as far as players taking it easy on him. i don't see that happening and if it does it won't last to long. this is just one's opinion and i'm sticking to it.

posted by liggy78 at 02:06 PM on December 14

Still, this guy might want to take advice from a doctor who doesn't say idiotic things like: "I have not seen a case here in the United States that someone in a professional sport has suffered a cardiac arrest and a) survived it and b) gone back and played." Malapropism aside, I wonder if the case of Tedy Bruschi might come close. However, Bruschi stepped back, got his condition dealt with, and -- unless he, his family, and everyone else in the know are lying -- diligently sought out medical opinions and found none that said he shouldn't return to football. And that process took a lot longer than three weeks. Maybe it'll turn out that what Fischer has is fixable. If not...well, look at Arthur Ashe. On preview, from liggy78: Who knows how it will end. but you never know. just like in life you never know when and how you will die. when death comes you can't out run it. so what is the big deal. we are all going to die. we know this and he is a big boy. Don't stop now; you're on a roll! Let's have a few more cliches on death and dying! Look, liggy, if you're driving down the highway on your way to Poughkeepsie, and you see an exit sign that says, "Poughkeepsie", do you keep on driving because you never know? Somehow I don't think so. Sure, no one ever knows absolutely how their life will end. Sure, you never know for certain when and how you will die. But it's just plain dumb to pretend that there are no indicators, or that they should just be dismissed because "you never know". Don't believe me? Fine, come back and tell me that after you've been up close and personal with death, and maybe I'll listen. For now, it sounds to me like you just don't know what you're talking about.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:13 PM on December 14

lbb, you're right. It's like you have five dollars left and you're really horny. You decide to have sex with that filthy disease ridden, cracked-out, no-tooth havin', trailer park livin', mayonnaise sandwich-eatin', warrant-havin' sexy little thing called a prostitute. It might be worth every cent, but you might end up dead. You just never know.

posted by Desert Dog at 03:20 PM on December 14

Yep, I'm sure that's EXACTLY what lbb meant.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:49 PM on December 14

It might be worth every cent, but you might end up dead. Why does it have to be an either-or thing?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:11 PM on December 14

If Jiri wants to continue in hockey I support him 100%, even if it means that it might kill him. For some people from some cultures sport is much more then just sport. It is a part of their culture, their way of life. Just as nation, creed or even religion is to others. If they die doing what they love to do then their life, or loss of it, was well worth it. My father lived an unhealthy lifestyle (as do I) and he died at 63. Still he died on his terms living the life he loved and, even though his choices took him away from me and the rest of the family, I respect the choice he made. As Jimi Hedrix once said, I'm the one who has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.

posted by commander cody at 12:42 AM on December 15

Here's the stupid thing: one day, not very far away, he's going to have to find something else in life than sport. All athletes, especially elite athletes, have to. Oh sure, there's Masters competition, but, sooner or later, your body makes you retire, or it gets you fired. What's the normal career end for a pro hockey player - 30, 35?

posted by rodgerd at 01:48 AM on December 15

Then why not go out in a blaze of glory Rod? It's better to flame out then just burn out or fade away and none of us are coming back, so why not go out doing what you love? That's way better then continuing on and living a boring worthless life.

posted by commander cody at 02:10 AM on December 15

Then why not go out in a blaze of glory Rod? It's better to flame out then just burn out or fade away and none of us are coming back, so why not go out doing what you love? That's way better then continuing on and living a boring worthless life. There are so many things wrong with these three sentences that I don't know where to begin, but I'll give it a shot. Then why not go out in a blaze of glory Rod? If Jiri had died that night, would you have called it a "blaze of glory"? Falling over and thrashing around on the ground while people pound on his chest to try and revive him? His teammates standing by, his family maybe in the stands, screaming and freaking out? Some "blaze of glory". There is no "blaze of glory" when someone dies. That's a load of crap. It's better to flame out then just burn out or fade away and none of us are coming back, so why not go out doing what you love? Because people don't want to "go out" (cute euphemism -- call it what it is, dying) doing what they love, they want to live doing what they love. Because a normal human being, particularly one blessed with a life lived in material comfort outside a war zone, has the capacity and the opportunity to love more than one thing about life. Because the false dichotomy of a binary choice between "flaming out" and "burning out or fading away" is just that, false. That's way better then continuing on and living a boring worthless life. So, commander cody, your life is boring and worthless? It must be, because you're not playing in the NHL. Why haven't you killed yourself, since life outside of elite sports is so boring and worthless? A little perspective, if you please.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:15 AM on December 15

A little perspective, if you please. Well, a little perspective on both sides. I would have said much the same things as the Good Commander at age 20. Life doesn't become precious until you stop thinking you're invicible.

posted by yerfatma at 09:14 AM on December 15

Interesting discussion here from both sides. There is more to life than fame and fortune. Jiri's decision would effect alot of people and its easy for us, looking in from the outside, to give our opinion. Risking ones life for anything is really up to the person. I hope and pray that all works out for Jiri. I think way too is made of the importance of sport, fame and money.

posted by daddisamm at 09:42 AM on December 15

I'm not invincible? Bloody hell.

posted by garfield at 09:44 AM on December 15

Don't be fooled, garfield - that's just what the vincible ones want us to think.

posted by JJ at 10:31 AM on December 15

Yeah? Inviting your friend the shark over for the holidays, JJ? And I don't mean Greg Norman. Though he's welcome to attend. Probably flubs the gift opening though.

posted by yerfatma at 10:56 AM on December 15

"I'm invincible!!!" "You're a loony..."

posted by MeatSaber at 11:35 AM on December 15

He's not a flubber - he's "a winner in life". (one of the funniest lines I've ever heard after Norman blew the Masters in '96 and gamely attended the press conference to tell us that because his businesses were so successful he didn't feel like a loser - my Scottish mate sneers at the TV "Aye, very good Greg, away and buy yourself a green jacket then. It's your only hope of ever gettin' hold of one."

posted by JJ at 12:35 PM on December 15

Actually my life is very un-boring, but I think all life is worthless if it's spent not doing the things you want to do or love, even if they might kill you. I'm very selfish when it comes to the way I live. I've surprisingly made it to the ripe old age of 49, but if I died tomorrow it would be fine with me. The point for me is that 100 years from now he's going to be just as dead as I will be and just as dead as all of the people who never took a chance, ate the right food, never drank, jogged and went to the doctor for check ups every 6 months, so he might as well enjoy himself now. Death is only scary if you make it so and no one gets out of here alive, so live selfish.

posted by commander cody at 12:53 PM on December 15

Actually my life is very un-boring, but I think all life is worthless if it's spent not doing the things you want to do or love, even if they might kill you. I'm very selfish when it comes to the way I live. It takes quite a bit of selfishness to do what you love and want to do. Being connected to other people -- parents, spouses, partners, kids, friends, whatever -- means having to lose that selfishness and make some compromises. When my parents were both healthy, I had a lot of freedom to do exactly what I wanted. But when reality checks, you have to decide if you're going to be "boring" or a bastard. The point for me is that 100 years from now he's going to be just as dead as I will be and just as dead as all of the people who never took a chance, ate the right food, never drank, jogged and went to the doctor for check ups every 6 months, so he might as well enjoy himself now. I already called your false dichotomy to your attention once; are you truly not aware that there are a lot of choices besides playing hockey on a bum ticker and dropping dead in front of your fiance, and "never [taking] a chance"? And what's so enjoyable about a heart attack, anyway?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:24 PM on December 15

Of course there are a lot of other choices, but if he wants to risk death by doing what he wants to do and loves doing then that is his right and I support him all of the way. As for choosing between being boring or being a bastard, if I had to make that choice I'd pick being a bastard everytime. When it comes to the way one decides to live their life then selfishness is not a vice. My father smoked himself to death and my stepmother tried for years to get me to try to get him to quit, but I wouldn't because he made the choices he wanted to make and it wasn't my place to object. It was his life to live or lose, not mine. Same thing with Jiri. More power to him. A safe life is not one that is worth living.

posted by commander cody at 03:54 PM on December 15

As for choosing between being boring or being a bastard, if I had to make that choice I'd pick being a bastard everytime. When it comes to the way one decides to live their life then selfishness is not a vice. So, you were hatched?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:08 PM on December 15

Hatched? I'm afraid you lost me there.

posted by commander cody at 05:41 PM on December 15

commander cody, most people, if they have no other connection to the human race, do have parents -- and most people's parents had some hand in their care...food, shelter, medical care, etc. When these parents become old and frail and need care in their turn...well, you said it, you'd "pick being a bastard every time". But you say selfishness is not a vice, so...

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:49 PM on December 15

What I said was that it was not a vice when it comes to deciding how a person chooses to live their life. Besides I must have a different concept of family then you as I was raised to believe that I owe my parents nothing. In my family we were pushed to be as independant as possibile, even to the point of being told we could only move back in with our parents in extreme emergencies. While I certainly love my parents they live their life and I live mine with no obligations felt in either direction. I also respect them for making me stand on my own two feet.

posted by commander cody at 08:55 PM on December 15

Different strokes, commander c, but I think yours is a minority view. In any event, I hope that now you can understand the limitations of your black-or-white worldview where everything is a "blaze of glory" or "a boring worthless life". Most people see in colors, and must make their decisions using logic that is less simplistic than yours.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:37 PM on December 15

Obviously I disagree with your assesment that I only see the world in black and white. What I was trying to say was that if Jiri loves hockey then he should play it, even if it might kill him. It's worth it. If you are not doing a job that you love then you are wasting your life anyway. I quit a very well paying job with a Fortune 500 company to take a job as an EMT for barely above minimum wage because I was burnt out on computers and always wanted to drive an ambulance. My wife on the other hand has 6 college degrees and is trying to decide if she wants to get her Phd (I dropped out my 1st year) but hates her career and only does it because she makes great money at it. She respects my choices and I respect (though don't understand) hers. As you say different strokes.

posted by commander cody at 01:48 AM on December 16

most people, if they have no other connection to the human race, do have parents -- and most people's parents had some hand in their care...food, shelter, medical care, etc. When these parents become old and frail and need care in their turn...well, you said it, you'd "pick being a bastard every time". But you say selfishness is not a vice, so... You've used this argument before on here, lbb - it's logically flawed - parents choose to have children (in the majoriy of cases), but no child ever asked to be born. From a logical standpoint, the obligation only works in one direction. For what its worth, if I found myself in the position of my parents depending on my care I would be there for them wihout hesitation, but because I love them, not because I feel like I owe them something. Don't even get me started on "I think yours is a minority view"

posted by JJ at 09:22 AM on December 16

I also think this is a Battle of the Sexes type topic. However weak that may be, I think men and women think differently about dying in a blaze of glory. Which is why we keep you people out of our glorious foxholes.

posted by yerfatma at 10:42 AM on December 16

What I was trying to say was that if Jiri loves hockey then he should play it, even if it might kill him. But you're not even considering where on the spectrum of "might" he is. If, for instance, you know that it probably will result in an MI, would you still do it? It's worth it. Hey, commander, I hear that free-falling thousands of feet is a tremendous rush. If you do it without a parachute and some training, you'll probably die. Is it worth it?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:05 AM on December 16

I also think this is a Battle of the Sexes type topic. However weak that may be, I think men and women think differently about dying in a blaze of glory. Which is why we keep you people out of our glorious foxholes. Well, certainly, I think men and women think very differently about dying in a blaze of glory -- until they actually have the opportunity to do it, hee hee.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:08 AM on December 16

I hear that free-falling thousands of feet is a tremendous rush. If you do it without a parachute and some training, you'll probably die. Is it worth it? That depends...have I been free-falling my entire life with a parachute, then suddenly I can't do it with a parachute any more? That's a better analogy than doing something I've never done before that's likely deadly...

posted by MeatSaber at 11:47 AM on December 16

Saying might was considering where on the spectrum he is. No one has ever said that playing will kill him, but even if they did and he wanted to play anyway I would still support that. As for jumping out of a plane without a parachute, now you're just being silly. That's like the old parent arguement of if everyone else jumped off a bridge would you, when that was never the issue in the first place. Besides my dogs love me the way I am and that makes up for everything else.

posted by commander cody at 11:47 AM on December 16

Saying might was considering where on the spectrum he is. But do you know that? Where exactly is he? Look, he was diagnosed with a heart abnormality in 2002, he has a big huge flatlining MI in 2005, a week later he's checked back in with an irregularity. Clearly something's wrong, and clearly it hasn't been fixed. And you know where on the spectrum he is? And you're not willing to admit that when all is known, he may turn out to have a condition where prolonged exertion is tantamount to playing russian roulette? No one has ever said that playing will kill him, but even if they did and he wanted to play anyway I would still support that. You keep saying "support", but support it how? You're an idle spectator; what support are you giving him? If he has an MI tomorrow while playing hockey, you won't be out there giving him CPR. You won't be trying to save his life in the ER, or repairing his heart in surgery.. If he kicks tomorrow, it's no skin off your ass. You won't be consoling his fiancee or settling his debts or bagging up his personal effects. So what's this talk of "support" worth?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:59 AM on December 16

Moral support of course, though if I was there I would provide CPR as I have dozens of times before in my job. Helping to save a life is an incredibile rush. I am more then happy to admit that playing will probably kill him, but it's his choice and if he wants to do it more power to him. Besides what's the big deal about dying? I have never been able to understand why so many people are so afraid of it? While I'm certainly not ready to put a bullet in my head the whole concept of fear of death escapes me. And if his fiancee doesn't understand his love of the game, even to the point of risking his life, then he needs to find himself a new woman.

posted by commander cody at 12:12 PM on December 16

It has become fairly obvious during my relatively new membership at this site that if your opinion differs from lbb's opinion then it is absolutely, possitively, undoubtedly WRONG! Everything seems to turn into a raging debate. And she likes to beat you over the head with her opinion until you either succumb or shut up. I just don't understand how someone can invalidate someone else's personal opinions or feelings like they are statements of fact. I'm probably committing SpoFi suicide by posting a somewhat negative comment on a tenured member, but it's just my opinion (sorry for having one, lbb).

posted by willthrill72 at 12:44 PM on December 16

Bravo Will, but to tell the truth I'm having a ball.

posted by commander cody at 12:55 PM on December 16

Bravo Will, but to tell the truth I'm having a ball. Hey, it's just a discussion about attitudes about death. Personally, I think that most people who use phrases like "blaze of glory" are talking through their hats, hyped up on romantic notions that are untempered with actual experience. It's how you get people to volunteer for the army. I've never yet met anyone who actually had experience with sudden death of someone close, and then had to spend a prolonged time dealing with its ugly aftermath who still used terms like "blaze of glory" afterwards, but I'm willing to accept that you may be the first. It has become fairly obvious during my relatively new membership at this site that if your opinion differs from lbb's opinion then it is absolutely, possitively, undoubtedly WRONG! Heh. This from a guy who called another poster's opinion "downright insane". Hi there, Mr. Pot! Black is the new black, haven't you heard?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:04 PM on December 16

I've never had any problem dealing with death, even of a close friend or family member or even with the idea of my own. I guess that makes me a bit of a cold person, but it's odd considering how tore up I get when one of my dogs die.

posted by commander cody at 01:42 PM on December 16

Heh. This from a guy who called another poster's opinion "downright insane". Touche'. I concede I am guilty of doing the same (most everyone on this site is). However, comparing anyone to Hitler is extremely insensitive to a rather large segment of our society and I have strong feelings on the subject. You seem to have strong feelings on every subject. I also did not continue browbeating the individual after the fact. Of course with a forum such as this there are going to be plenty of strong opinions which makes for healthy debate. But to continuously deride people for their opinions, I don't consider healthy. You are obviously an intelligent person and I sometimes wonder if you pick out the people whom you feel you are superior to intellectually and tear them apart. As bad as that sounds, I honestly do not mean any disrespect.

posted by willthrill72 at 03:12 PM on December 16

I honestly do not mean any disrespect. I don't either, but I have a hard time taking seriously the criticism and mental-health mock-concern of someone who hangs back in the weeds, says nothing in a thread, and then jumps in with a comment that consists solely of a personal attack. Then, in your followup "touche" post, you snipe some more, and finish with the passive-aggressive coda, "I honestly do not mean any disrespect". Physician, heal thyself? It's too bad you view any disagreement or continued conversation as "browbeating", but I think that's your filters speaking. I don't think commander c felt "browbeaten", and was doing just fine without a defender. If you do have concerns of some kind, or some issue to take with me, though, you're going to have to find a better way to put them forth if you want me to take them seriously.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:08 PM on December 16

You don't have to take me seriously. I don't need you to take me seriously to feel good about myself. And as far as hanging back in the weeds, I was simply generalizing an observation I have made over the past few months and I happened to comment in this particular thread. I also don't think of any disagreement as browbeating, only when you are the one disagreeing. Perhaps you overlooked my comment on healthy debate or because it doesn't fit into your rant you simply chose to ignore it. And as far as you taking my comment as a personal attack, I apologize to saw it that way. But your retaliation by accussing me of having "mock concern" is utter bullshit. You have no clue of what concerns me or makes up my mental state of health, so if you would like to keep your pseudo psycho-analysis out of your rebuttals, maybe I could take you more seriously.

posted by willthrill72 at 07:48 PM on December 16

Actually I enjoy a spirited intelligent debate so, while I may disagree with lbb's opinions on some things, I certainly respect her right to have them. Also I've been married 3 times, so I can't be browbeaten or intimidated any more. In fact come to think of it that might also help explain my whole lack of fear of death thingie. :-)

posted by commander cody at 10:17 PM on December 16

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