September 28, 2005

Those crazy Red Sox fans.: Apparently, there is an association between rising pennant fever and declining hospital visits

posted by jasonspaceman to baseball at 09:04 AM - 67 comments

is that not the FUNNIEST stat ever? I wonder what will happen when the BRUINS win the cup this year!!

posted by sinisterfoot at 09:08 AM on September 28

I wonder what will happen when the BRUINS win the cup this year!! It will probably be hard to judge, because that will mean 22 other NHL teams must have perished in horrific plane accidents.

posted by dyams at 09:14 AM on September 28

Pennant fever = Wins - Losses / Runs Scored * Innings Played

posted by jasonspaceman at 09:17 AM on September 28

at this pont, I will take it!!!

posted by sinisterfoot at 09:18 AM on September 28

My pennant thermometer must be broken.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:18 AM on September 28

My pennant thermometer must be broken. What part of your body does this thermometer go?

posted by jasonspaceman at 09:23 AM on September 28

It will probably be hard to judge, because that will mean 22 other NHL teams must have perished in horrific plane accidents. HA!

posted by Ufez Jones at 09:29 AM on September 28

Apparently, there is an association between rising pennant fever and declining hospital visits Just wait until the obligatory playoff riots.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:41 AM on September 28

Also, as the Freakonomics guys point out: "the authors measure the quantity of people visiting the ER, not the wait time. It may be the case that more doctors and nurses play hooky on those days (or sneak off to a back room to catch an inning here or there) so that your actual wait time goes up, not down."

posted by Ufez Jones at 09:42 AM on September 28

As a side story: Doctors in Boston, finding themselves in financial hardship due to the Sox success and subsequent lack of business, have been erecting this roadside BILL-board to drum up business.

posted by mayerkyl at 09:51 AM on September 28

Poor Billy. That error didn't cause them to lose. There's still just too much emphasis on that one play.

posted by jasonspaceman at 10:01 AM on September 28

Correlation does not always mean causation. Relationships can be spurius It is also true that when ice cream sales go up so does index crimes. Fun article to read if you are a bosox fan.

posted by T$PORT4lawschool at 10:01 AM on September 28

Just wait until the obligatory playoff riots. posted by lil_brown_bat Jesus, what is it about you and the riots?

posted by justgary at 10:40 AM on September 28

I thought mental illness was a prerequisite of being a Red Sox fan.

posted by wfrazerjr at 10:48 AM on September 28

Jesus, what is it about you and the riots? Concur. What up LBB?

posted by jerseygirl at 10:53 AM on September 28

Did anyone notice just how CALM Boston was after the Sox won? I mean - being a MASSHOLE myself, I was expecting BIG TIME RIOTS....and was pleasantly surprised by the lack of it here at home.... Save the Riots for IMPORTANT stuff....sports are for FUN

posted by sinisterfoot at 11:03 AM on September 28

There's also a correlation between Red Sox championships and plastic pepper-spray bullets.

posted by the red terror at 11:05 AM on September 28

I thought mental illness was a prerequisite of being a Red Sox fan. I'm staying out of THAT one. Love it, though.

posted by dyams at 11:07 AM on September 28

Jesus, what is it about you and the riots? I lived in that neighborhood for quite a few years, and I was also a grad student at UMass at the time of the '86 riots. I don't like the attitude of far too many fans that a baseball game is an occasion for public urination, and that a playoff win (or loss) justifies turning over cars and setting them on fire, or getting into a massive brawl. IME, the apologists have yet to address the fundamental issue of fan misbehavior.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:26 AM on September 28

Those kids down there... weren't from Boston, much like you weren't when you lived down there, and you have to doubt many of them were all "fans". Explaining the college kid "hey there's debauchery, let's join in it!" mentality is sort of moot. For instance, we had nice gatherings of fans during the playoffs and I can happily report none of us pissed anywhere except designated plumbing areas and all of our cars remained in upright positions.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:36 AM on September 28

I lived in that neighborhood for quite a few years I'm sure there are pockets of yankee fans that are out of control. I'm hope you're not telling me that millions of people follow each team and the bad ones just happened to end up on the sox side. Maybe if the shoes were reversed and the red sox had a bazillion championships and the yankees finally got one you'd see a different result. And even if you're correct about the situation I'm not sure what snarking about it in every sox thread (threads that have nothing to do with rioting) is accomplishing. If the sox win the east I can hear you now. "Time to riot." So maybe you're truly concerned about rioting, but it comes off as bitter.

posted by justgary at 11:45 AM on September 28

jerseygirl, while there were plenty of assertions about the crowd composition (you're not the first one to try the "drunken college kids" label), there is no data that I know of. I'd say it was a very mixed group. Likewise, there have been plenty of assertions made that the rioters weren't "fans" (why the quotes?), or at least, weren't real fans. Again, assertion and speculation, not data. It's a big so-what in any case. Does it matter to the black student who's just coming home from the library that the white boys who screamed, "Get the niggers!" as they stomped him weren't "real fans"? Does it matter to the person whose property is trashed and whose car is burned that the people who did it weren't "from Boston"? They're using this event as an excuse to behave like animals, because -- wait for it -- there's a history of animal behavior. The Red Sox have a policy of dealing with troublemakers in their stadium by simply tossing them out into the street -- not into a paddywagon, into the street. Into the neighborhood. That's real responsible. And when a big event comes, and they find that people feel that part of the fun consists of hanging around Landsdowne Street trashing property...well, big surprise. The riots are a pattern. There are a lot of players who could have done more than they did to deal with them. But right now, following the unfortunate death of Victoria Snelgrove, the only ones on the hot seat are the cops. They are 100% responsible for deploying a weapon that wasn't appropriate for its use (arguably a misrepresentation by the manufacturer), for putting it into the hands of untrained people who used it in a fashion that caused harm. But they're not responsible for tens of thousands of people congregating on the neighborhood looking to get rowdy. Nor do the colleges own that one outright. The Red Sox organization owns a big piece of it, and guess what, you fans do too. You own the biggest piece of it, because you have the greatest power to do something about it. And what you're gonna have to do for the playoffs, this year and every year after this, is to pick up your programs and leave the area as soon as the game is over. Do not stop to get a beer, do not stop to buy a t-shirt, do not stop to jaw over who did what in the seventh -- just go, because the history is one where if you let the crowd gather and linger, a riot is going to happen. BTW, I'm glad you had a nice gathering and that your cars weren't burned, but it wasn't your cars that I was talking about.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:58 AM on September 28

IME, the apologists have yet to address the fundamental issue of fan misbehavior. Damn them. Let's call them on the carpet and see what they have to say for themselves.

posted by yerfatma at 12:00 PM on September 28

Does it matter to the black student who's just coming home from the library that the white boys who screamed, "Get the niggers!" as they stomped him weren't "real fans"? Ah, the sweet stink of conflation. Sports rioters == racists. Your love affair with mainstream sports continues . . .

posted by yerfatma at 12:00 PM on September 28

while there were plenty of assertions about the crowd composition (you're not the first one to try the "drunken college kids" label), there is no data that I know of. I can help start that. The only times I have ever been involved in these types of celebrations I was both drunk and in college.

posted by YukonGold at 12:12 PM on September 28

Damn them. Let's call them on the carpet and see what they have to say for themselves. I think she just tried to. Gee, that was overblown like a mofo.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:14 PM on September 28

Someone's got issues... =)

posted by justgary at 12:17 PM on September 28

justgary: I'm sure there are pockets of yankee fans that are out of control. I'm hope you're not telling me that millions of people follow each team and the bad ones just happened to end up on the sox side. Maybe if the shoes were reversed and the red sox had a bazillion championships and the yankees finally got one you'd see a different result. Maybe we would, but we're not gonna know that for at least a hundred years, are we? The thread was about Red Sox fans' ER habits around championships. Forgive me for observing that despite a possible decline during games, you probably see an uptick after the championship is won or lost, due to rowdyism -- and that the rowdyism is a well-established pattern. And even if you're correct about the situation I'm not sure what snarking about it in every sox thread (threads that have nothing to do with rioting) is accomplishing. Cite. Show me "every sox thread", then show me where I've commented on rioting in every such thread. Can't cite? Type, "I was wrong." As to what it accomplishes, if it prompts even one fan to take an honest look at irresponsible and dangerous behavior and vow to have nothing to do with it, then it's accomplished something. And having nothing to do with it doesn't mean just refraining from burning cars and trashing property yourself -- it means resolving to stay far away from those who do. Maybe it's time someone suggested that watching a riot like it's a spectator sport isn't a good idea, either. If the fans exiting the stadium, or hanging in bars nearby watching the game, look around and say, "This is getting messy," and leave the area, that will help the situation greatly. From tiny acorns etc. If the sox win the east I can hear you now. "Time to riot." Just what is that supposed to mean? That if the Sox win the east, I'm gonna organize a riot? So maybe you're truly concerned about rioting, but it comes off as bitter. And calling me "bitter" because I point out the facts of the riots makes you come off as an apologist who would like to place responsibility anywhere other than where it belongs.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:18 PM on September 28

Ah, the sweet stink of conflation. Sports rioters == racists Do you know anything about the incident that I'm talking about, yerfatma? "Sweet stink of conflation", my ass. It happened.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:22 PM on September 28

That if the Sox win the east, I'm gonna organize a riot? No, you'll be back up here grinding that axe.

posted by YukonGold at 12:27 PM on September 28

Do you know anything about the incident that I'm talking about, yerfatma? "Sweet stink of conflation", my ass. It happened. Uh-huh. And one data point equals a trend in your world? My knowledge of an incident you witnessed 20 years ago aside, your general point always seems to be that all guys who like mainstream sports are thugs who would riot. And now you're saying rioters are racists. Type "My boogers are green" 300x.

posted by yerfatma at 12:30 PM on September 28

gary, there are always cars burning in the bronx so i don't think we'd notice the difference if it was yankee-fan related or not:-)

posted by goddam at 12:36 PM on September 28

Frightens the crap outta me what might happen if -- and I do mean: if -- the Leafs finally win a Cup. I might have to lock myself in a fallout shelter. Should this ever come to pass, I reckon there will be all sorts of monkeys and scary demons unleashed onto the streets of southern Ontario and beyond, and Red Sox riots will look like infants shaking their baby rattles by comparison.

posted by the red terror at 12:54 PM on September 28

Show me "every sox thread", then show me where I've commented on rioting in every such thread. Can't cite? Type, "I was wrong." Aw, that's okay. You can still participate in the obligatory post-big-game riot. posted by lil_brown_bat Just wait until the obligatory playoff riots. posted by lil_brown_bat I'm speaking of recently. Two threads that have nothing to do with rioting (no, not this one either) and you come out of no where with this "obligatory riots" stuff. Obviously this is a huge issue with you. Of course, out of all that is wrong with the world that you, a yankee fan, picks boston riots as your pet one is a little strange, but whatever, each to his own. Then post about it and let's discuss it. But snarking about it with one liners is not going to 'accomplish' anything. But I don't think helping people was your purpose. A dig at the red sox fans was, which is fine. And calling me "bitter" because I point out the facts of the riots makes you come off as an apologist who would like to place responsibility anywhere other than where it belongs. It comes off as bitter because of where and how you bring up the topic. If my curiosity as to why you feel the need to push views that have nothing to do with the topic at hand makes me an apologist, I don't know what to tell you. gary, there are always cars burning in the bronx so i don't think we'd notice the difference if it was yankee-fan related or not:-) I have never seen a burning car in my life. I've been sheltered. Ha.

posted by justgary at 01:21 PM on September 28

Does anyone else here find yertfatman comments very lame, or is it just me? This guy , post after post, just makes me want to puke..... over him! Why because his points are well thought out? Is he too smart for you? yerfatma, your cool in my book.

posted by tron7 at 01:33 PM on September 28

I have never seen a burning car in my life. I've been sheltered. Ha. Oh you should! It's absolutely breathtaking! :) what was this thread about again?

posted by jerseygirl at 01:35 PM on September 28

yerfatma, your cool in my book. You must be reading the same book as my mom. But where did that quotation come from? It's pretty awesome, but I don't see it. Are you bi-polar or did it get removed?

posted by yerfatma at 01:45 PM on September 28

It was there when i started the post and gone by the time I posted. Should have gotten the name. It would be more fun if I were bipolar though don't ya think.

posted by tron7 at 01:55 PM on September 28

zippinglou.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:58 PM on September 28

Uh-huh. And one data point equals a trend in your world? Where did I say it did? Oh, wait -- you're the one who knows more about "my world" than I do. Witness the following: My knowledge of an incident you witnessed 20 years ago aside, your general point always seems to be that all guys who like mainstream sports are thugs who would riot. And now you're saying rioters are racists. Liar.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:04 PM on September 28

Just for my doctoral thesis, do you honestly see yourself floating above the rest of us morally or are you so disgusted with yourself it helps to see us as the dirty, flesh-covered sinners we are? Seriously now: I need to pass this class.

posted by yerfatma at 02:18 PM on September 28

I'm speaking of recently. Two threads that have nothing to do with rioting (no, not this one either) and you come out of no where with this "obligatory riots" stuff. Okay, so "every sox thread" doesn't mean every sox thread. Gotcha. So, justgary, is it just me (or just me and justgary), or is everyone else called on the carpet when they inject a veer into a thread? Obviously this is a huge issue with you. jg, I'd ask you to give some thought to where you are reading this. You are reading it on Sportsfilter, and in the context of the subset of SportsFilter that involves Major League Baseball, and the subset of that that involves the Red Sox, and in the subset of that that involves big games, it's a pretty big issue with me. But my world is a bit bigger than SportsFilter or even this tiny corner of it. Get me going on the subject of energy policy and you'll find out. Of course, out of all that is wrong with the world that you, a yankee fan, picks boston riots as your pet one is a little strange, but whatever, each to his own. As I have just pointed out to you, you are deeply wrong about this, but feel free to believe it if it pleases you. Then post about it and let's discuss it. As I recall, I did in the past when it was news and we were discussing the ALCS (or it may have come up in a World Series thread). At that time everyone was in deep denial, and nobody wanted to deal. Nothing's really changed about that as far as I can tell, and that's really unfortunate, because the Sox are either going to be playing in the playoffs or playing in a very clutch game soon, where passions will run very high. The BPD has gone through a whole lot of upheaval in the intervening year, but I don't know how much they've really changed, apart from ditching the pepper-pellet guns -- and even if they'd made substantial changes, the avoidance of a violent situation is not entirely in their control. In fact, I'd say that that power resides mostly elsewhere, with the fans. Make sense?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:18 PM on September 28

jg, I'd ask you to give some thought to where you are reading this. You are reading it on Sportsfilter, and in the context of the subset of SportsFilter that involves Major League Baseball, and the subset of that that involves the Red Sox, and in the subset of that that involves big games, it's a pretty big issue with me. But my world is a bit bigger than SportsFilter or even this tiny corner of it. Get me going on the subject of energy policy and you'll find out. I didn't write whatever set you off.

posted by jerseygirl at 02:20 PM on September 28

Just for my doctoral thesis, do you honestly see yourself floating above the rest of us morally or are you so disgusted with yourself it helps to see us as the dirty, flesh-covered sinners we are? Would your doctoral thesis possibly be on the subject of how to construct the most outrageous and inflammatory false dichotomy possible?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:21 PM on September 28

The BPD is still overseen by a bunch of old Micks who aren't going to change their ways when dealing with young kids rioting. Would your doctoral thesis possibly be on the subject of how to construct the most outrageous and inflammatory false dichotomy possible? Yes. Everything else in Philosophy has been written about. Teach me to show up a day late.

posted by yerfatma at 02:22 PM on September 28

Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick, people.

posted by dusted at 02:26 PM on September 28

Get me going on the subject of energy policy and you'll find out. Ooh, I want to hear what she has to say on the energy policy.

posted by tron7 at 02:30 PM on September 28

jerseygirl: I didn't write whatever set you off. My bad for using the abbreviation "jg" in the middle of a response to a post by justgary. Given the context, your confusion is entirely understandable.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:32 PM on September 28

No prob. And let this be a lesson to Gary, get a new username butthead! ;)

posted by jerseygirl at 02:33 PM on September 28

Okay, so "every sox thread" doesn't mean every sox thread. Gotcha. So, justgary, is it just me (or just me and justgary), or is everyone else called on the carpet when they inject a veer into a thread? Also, when I said the yankees had won a 'bazillion' championships, I was also exaggerating. Just so you know. Look, veer into any thread you like. I was honestly curious as to why you brought up riots in two threads that had nothing to do with riots. It's important to you, so be it. Preach on, and we'll all pretend your two comments were to "stop just one person" from rioting. No prob. And let this be a lesson to Gary, get a new username butthead! ;) Well, I could switch to gary. ;)

posted by justgary at 03:32 PM on September 28

i think i like butthead better.

posted by goddam at 03:38 PM on September 28

Also, when I said the yankees had won a 'bazillion' championships, I was also exaggerating. Just so you know. So a 'bazillion' doesn't mean a bazillion. Gotcha.

posted by tron7 at 03:44 PM on September 28

i think i like butthead better. Damn yankee fans.

posted by justgary at 03:49 PM on September 28

Preach on, and we'll all pretend your two comments were to "stop just one person" from rioting. Actually, change that to "I". I don't pretend to speak for others.

posted by justgary at 04:01 PM on September 28

If anyone comes looking for me, I'm gonna drive my gas-guzzling V8 hemi Jeep Grand Cherokee down to Boston with the A/C on and all the windows open while I scope out a good spot to overturn cars and start fire in the streets after this weekend. Anyone know a place that's willing to give a discount on the purchase of 400 cases of beer? Northeastern can probably drink a lot and I'm gonna need some other like minded idiots if this plan is gonna work. or at least that's how I imagine these things get planned

posted by YukonGold at 04:04 PM on September 28

You can speak for me, Gary. I think you're dreamy.

posted by wfrazerjr at 05:56 PM on September 28

I appreciate the vote of confidence.

posted by justgary at 06:36 PM on September 28

If anyone comes looking for me, I'm gonna drive my gas-guzzling V8 hemi Jeep Grand Cherokee down to Boston with the A/C on and all the windows open while I scope out a good spot to overturn cars and start fire in the streets after this weekend. Won't work. You'll never find a parking space.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:13 PM on September 28

With some of the I've been here and there, done this and that, seen this and that posts lately. I just have to wonder if one of our members isn't a part owner of a shrimpin' buisness.

posted by jojomfd1 at 11:28 PM on September 28

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more; it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." - somehow Shakespeare seems appropriate at this point in the thread.

posted by mayerkyl at 06:58 AM on September 29

/carries coal

posted by yerfatma at 07:38 AM on September 29

Won't work. You'll never find a parking space. What about the beer? I doesn't have to be brewed in small batches or anything, unless we want to attract hippies. Their riots are in a whole nother league.

posted by YukonGold at 09:28 AM on September 29

Yukon can I come too, I haven't seen a good fire in a while?

posted by jojomfd1 at 10:22 AM on September 29

"Always go to other peoples' funerals, otherwise they won't go to yours." - Yogi Berra

posted by dusted at 12:41 PM on September 29

What about the beer? Oh, there's beer aplenty. For anyone who's going to be in the neighborhood, I'd avoid the Cask, the restaurant with the rotating theme and name that's more or less across Brookline Avenue (used to be B.B. Wolf's and serve indifferent barbecue), and anything else on the streets immediately around the park. The bars in Kenmore Square get jammed too -- unless you really want a crush of people, I'd go in the opposite direction. Wander over to my old 'hood instead and visit the Linwood Grill at the corner of Queensberry and Kilmarnock. If you want to eat, they have very respectable honest-to-god barbecue (disclaimer: haven't eaten there in maybe four years), and if you just want the beer, the bar part of the establishment is a good place to do some drinkin'. Do enjoy -- I wish I could be there myself (seriously!), but there's no way I'd be able to swing a ticket.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:27 PM on September 29

the Cask 'n Flagon used to be... BB Wolfs?

posted by jerseygirl at 02:35 PM on September 29

the Cask 'n Flagon used to be... BB Wolfs? I don't think so, unless they moved it and did something funny with the street numbers. The Cask, which predates BB Wolf's by about 200 years, is listed at 62 Brookline Avenue, and last I knew that was the corner of Landsdowne and Brookline on the ballpark side. Across Brookline Avenue you have Boston Beer Works, which is listed at 61 Brookline Ave, which would make sense. BB Wolf still shows up in the yellow pages at 109 Brookline Ave (it was/is a block or so down the street from Beer Works, closer to Longwood). I had thought that there was a new restaurant in that space, but maybe I'm wrong. It probably wouldn't make much difference. BTW, Beer Works used to be good but it's another mob scene, and my info's years out of date.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:38 PM on September 29

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