04/19/24
April 05, 2004
Break up the Bombers: The Yankees on Trial. ESPN will air it's second mock trial on Thursday, April 8. (The first was last year's trial of Pete Rose.)
Every other city is just jealous they don't have an owner willing to spend the $$$. Not guilty.
posted by billsaysthis at 10:26 PM on April 05, 2004
Not guilty. They are working within the rules of baseball. Baseball needs a salary cap to slow down the Yankees and a minimum salary to force owners like the Seligs to reinvest in their teams. The luxury tax obviously doesn't slow down the big spenders, and revenue sharing makes fielding cheap losing teams profitable.
posted by dusted at 11:10 PM on April 05, 2004
Guilty, on the grounds that they are ruining baseball. Since the issue appears to be whether or not they are ruining baseball, not whether or not they are operating within the rules of baseball, I think this ruling will stand.
posted by sixpacker at 06:03 AM on April 06, 2004
Give me convincing evidence that they're ruining baseball. How is baseball worse off than it would be without the Yankees? How is this past decade any different than the 40s and 50s, when the Yankees dominated? They won five series in a row. Back then, there was only one playoff team per league, and they were it every time. That's much more of a competitive imbalance than we see now. There are 18 teams with legit shots at the post season now. Back then there might have been 4. I'm sick of this. People can hate the Yankees all they want, but they're not ruining baseball. They're making it more interesting. They're arousing passionate debate and interest in the game. Every Yankee hater is a stronger baseball fan because they're there to hate. The real criminals are the cheapskate owners of teams who won't do anything to improve, but happily take the operating profit, part of which is paid by Steinbrenner. Let's put them on trial. What plays a greater role in competitive imbalance? One of the best teams paying a huge payroll and contributing to luxury tax and revenue sharing? Or ten teams who collect all those taxes and do nothing, shoving a minor league team out there on the field with no shot at a respectable record, let alone the playoffs?
posted by Bernreuther at 07:06 AM on April 06, 2004
As much as I hate the Yankees, Bernreuther is right.
posted by jasonspaceman at 07:09 AM on April 06, 2004
...baseball...without the Yankees now you're talking! ;)
posted by jerseygirl at 07:32 AM on April 06, 2004
And lets not forget that all those cheap owners also share in the mega bucks of all that Yankee merchandise that you see....Yes,MLB DOES have a form of revenue sharing-every team shares equally in the merchandising income from licensing,so teams like the Royals and Twinkies make BIG $$ of off George that way also!As one website [I forget which one] said, lets put SELIG on trial,and see how HE comes out...between his 'blind' ownership of the Brewers,and the DISGRACE of the Expos situation,the disgraceful way umpires are treated, the current situation in baseball is as corrupt as anything since the late 1890's...
posted by NYSSoftballBlue at 07:36 AM on April 06, 2004
Jersey..where would Sox fans be without the Yankees? You would have nothing to WHINE about....which seems to be the main occupation of Sox fans theses days...
posted by NYSSoftballBlue at 07:40 AM on April 06, 2004
You would have nothing to WHINE about....which seems to be the main occupation of Sox fans theses days... sweet, i was waiting for this. this points out how very little they know, how very selective they hear/read/listen, or how presumptuous some Yankee fans can be. i'm pretty heavily involved in media consumption regarding the red sox. i read the local rags, i listen to sports radio all day long, i'm checking the websites, i'm reading the out of town news... We're not talking about you these days at all. Jersey..where would Sox fans be without the Yankees? In first place, and current world champs. Thanks.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:56 AM on April 06, 2004
In first place, and current world champs. Thanks. funny how the yanks overlooked the marlins too. look what it got them. guys, it's only april and spofi's favorite topic is already starting to rear it's ugly head. i'm just holding out hope that the jays can shock the world and put both teams shit storm on the side....preferably with neither team making the playoffs (laugh all you want, i certainly think it's in the realm of possiblity...and in baseball stranger things have happened). i've said it before....the yanks are no more guilty than the sox...or even the stinkin' mets.....which is to say the real enemy, as others have pointed out, are those shady owners who choose to not be competitive.
posted by oliver_crunk at 08:17 AM on April 06, 2004
We're not talking about you these days at all. Of course you aren't. It's not October yet. :)
posted by grum@work at 08:20 AM on April 06, 2004
Of course you aren't. It's not October yet. :) You can thank the Boston media for that. We've no one to blame but ourselves for putting up with complete assholes who paint their own audience as ill-informed whiners who are more obsessed with New York than they are with winning a World Series. Those fans exist; you couldn't listen to WEEI for 5 minutes and still deny it. However, I think there's a silent majority (what % of fans even listen to sports radio, much less call in) that does not feel this way. I don't even know a fellow fan who sounds like someone in a Dan Shaughnessy column. Do I care about the Yankees? Sure I do. Just as much as Toronto and Baltimore. There's a little more because of the constant beatings the Sox have taken, but I want the Red Sox to win a title, not beat the Yankees.
posted by yerfatma at 08:36 AM on April 06, 2004
Of course you aren't. It's not October yet. :) Or any of the 19 times during the actual season. :) I'll get into it when I have some more time, but I am actually kind of worried about the heatedness of the rivalry this year. The stakes (for both teams) have never been higher. The passion of the fans is at an all time high. The scrutiny in the local and national media has never been so intense. Combine that with the Zimmer-Tossing-Manny-Overreacting-Pedro-head-pointing-Posada-talking-about-Pedros-Mom stuff from Game 3 on the field... well, I worry about safety. I hope it doesn't come to someone getting seriously injured or killed before people chill a little. Really, what crunk said. It's april. We're 1-2 games into the season. Baltimore and Toronto aren't going to be pushovers this year. The AL East will be the toughest division in baseball, hands down, and I don't think any one team is going to run away with it from the get go. So its early in the season, enjoy it now, because god knows when you're in the fetal position on the floor of your den crying at 12:30 in the morning in the middle of October, you're going to need to remember the good stress-free times. :)
posted by jerseygirl at 08:36 AM on April 06, 2004
You can thank the Boston media for that. yerfatma, how bad was it yesterday (and even today to a lesser extent) with the Pedro stuff and later with the Francona stuff? When I couldn't get through a few paragraphs of any article, I scanned the Red Sox Notebook and I was done. Same with the radio: the iPod was on around 10 and stayed that way until 4. Days like those... it's impossible to try to find any actual news or rational thought.
posted by jerseygirl at 08:46 AM on April 06, 2004
How is this past decade any different than the 40s and 50s, when the Yankees dominated? I don't know much about the Yankees during the 40s and 50s, being a new baseball fan (which is a rarity these days, I've heard). I know what I've seen so far, and that is that I'm less likely to watch/enjoy a game involving the Yankees when I know that the odds of them winning exceed most other teams. This is why they are ruining baseball... for me, I guess. The real criminals are the cheapskate owners of teams who won't do anything to improve, but happily take the operating profit, part of which is paid by Steinbrenner. From what I've gathered, the NY market far exceeds most other teams (particularly in the midwest) in terms of resources, providing revenue to the Yankees that these other teams will never be able to tap. This leaves them far behind in the race to spend, regardless of whether or not they have the desire to do so. With resources like that, it seems obvious that some sort of control has to be put into place, such as those mentioned by Dusted above. I'm brand new to this log, but I've been reading it for over a year. How did I forget about you, Bernreuther? I meant no offense. I speak from the perspective of a baseball newbie.
posted by sixpacker at 08:55 AM on April 06, 2004
It was pretty bad yesterday. After the first call for Francona's head from a rabidly uninformed caller (who didn't know the difference between a 'rotation' and a 'bullpen') I had to turn the radio off. It's compelling in a train wreck sort of way. To be honest, though, it's not just the media that portrays Red Sox fans as obsessive Yankee-Haters. Fenway breaks out into chants of "Yankees Suck" even when the Yanks aren't in town. I went to an A's game in Oakland and the Sox fans there were wearing Yankees Suck shirts. I have never seen a Boston Sucks shirt anywhere outside of NY, and I can't remember ever seeing one when the Sox weren't in town. In any event, I have to agree with the Yankee brass and say that it's pretty hypocritical of ESPN to on one hand criticize the Yankees for ruining baseball and on the other book them for as many games as possible to cash in on the TV ratings they bring in.
posted by Jugwine at 09:07 AM on April 06, 2004
I hope it doesn't come to someone getting seriously injured or killed before people chill a little. i'm usually the first person to do a doom dance proclaiming the apocalypse of both the yanks and the sox....but i can feel that in the air this year, more than any year ever and i'm afraid that one, if not both, of these teams are going to burnout. forget about the extra-curicular stuff, you can guarentee the circus will get even crazier. from a pure baseball perspective, that's a shame because i'm hoping that the incredible play and drama of last year can somehow be replicated, but even that might be asking too much.
posted by oliver_crunk at 09:11 AM on April 06, 2004
Clarification: I went to an A's-Sox game in Oakland, and people wore their Yankees Suck shirts. They also wore them at A's-Yankee games, but that at least makes sense given that the Yankees are actually there.
posted by Jugwine at 09:19 AM on April 06, 2004
re: 'yankees suck' chant saw a concert at great woods the night pedro struck out the side in the all star game in 1999. on the way out of the show there was a 'yankees suck' chant by the majority of the crowd. i kid you not. the concert: phish.
posted by oliver_crunk at 09:22 AM on April 06, 2004
the only times i hear a "boston sux" chant at the stadium when the sox aren't playing is when someone in the stands is wearing a boston hat or shirt. most times everyone is usually too busy taunting the team they're playing that night. i think the only chant you'll hear at a new york sports event religiously no matter who the opponent, is "potvin sucks".
posted by goddam at 09:49 AM on April 06, 2004
Fenway breaks out into chants of "Yankees Suck" even when the Yanks aren't in town. Yeah, I guess my Silent Majority is, like all other Silent Majorities, a minority. The truth is, I don't think of your casual Fenway goers as real fans either. They belong in the radio call-in/ guy at a bar/ co-worker's spouse category of people who follow the team without ever knowing what's going on. There are a ton of real fans at Fenway in the season ticket areas, but you'd be hard-pressed to find them elsewhere. No doubt there are a couple thousand each game, but they're scattered amongst the corporate stiffs, dads from up Nawth taking the kids on their annual pilgrimage, etc. In all honesty, I haven't been to the Fens in a couple of years and I don't see that changing soon. The idea of paying $40 to cram my frame into a seat built for an undersized man of the early twentieth century, stuck a row in front of some kids from BC who were drunk before the game started, all in a seat I paid $14 for four years ago . . . somehow it's just not that appealing.
posted by yerfatma at 10:27 AM on April 06, 2004
A little lot off-topic: did anyone see the Oakland-Texas game on ESPN2 last night? The strike zone being called was all over the place, and it hurt both teams. Tim Hudson couldn't get a strike called on anything below mid-thigh, but Arthur Rhodes ended the game with a strike nearly on the plate. I know the umps have been instructed to call the high strike, but hopefully they'll have a consistent zone sometime soon. Sorry for the derail - we need an Opening Day thread.
posted by dusted at 11:26 AM on April 06, 2004
Wow, I didn't just derail this thread, I completely stopped it.
posted by dusted at 03:40 PM on April 06, 2004
The "trial" show made me hate lawyers more than I hate the Yankees.
posted by dusted at 09:30 PM on April 10, 2004
yeah, the lawyers were rather annoying. dershowitz especially. but it did reaffirm my love for jim bouton
posted by goddam at 09:37 PM on April 10, 2004
Guilty.