04/16/24
December 02, 2003
If the Yankees get Kevin Brown,: the Red Sox will be back to playing catch-up.
Hm. I don't know. Pettitte is still the wiggle. As it stands, Boston is still up in pitching. NYY - Mussina, Contreras, Brown possibly BOS - Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wake, Kim/Arroyo/someone else?
posted by jerseygirl at 01:20 PM on December 02, 2003
Wow, I don't think Kevin Brown is the answer. Will George be buying a new LearJet for KB? Something to take him to and from his orthopedic surgeon.
posted by yerfatma at 01:21 PM on December 02, 2003
Geez, just what the Dodgers need, Jeff Weaver.
posted by jasonspaceman at 01:37 PM on December 02, 2003
Are the Dodgers interested in a salary dump or what? The more I think about it, I can't see why LA would want Weaver otherwise.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:39 PM on December 02, 2003
I think Weaver could get something done, if he's not in New York. Something didn't click for him there, but he was okay at Detroit. He's certainly capable of brilliant pitching.
posted by rocketman at 01:42 PM on December 02, 2003
Jeff Weaver was a very good pitcher on a very bad team at one point. I don't think swapping him for a (probably) over-the-hill Kevin Brown is a bad move.
posted by yerfatma at 03:28 PM on December 02, 2003
Well, getting rid of Weaver is a good thing for NY so getting a top tier pitcher in return, regardless of injury possibilities, is much better than the alternative of having a wasted 7 mill on a pitcher who can't get anyone out. All things considered they add $15mill (or something) over 2 years which is not that much when you're talking starting pitching and maybe you get one or more solid seasons out of it. He's not going to require a long term deal. Dodgers want to dump salary to add some offense, and Weaver is a good pitcher. He just can't handle New York. I've been saying that all along, and that they would never get fair value in a trade for him. This is not a jump for joy trade by any means but it's sort of an exchange of 2 problems type of trade. Mussina-Pettitte-Contreras-Brown-Lieber looks OK to me, though I'm not sold on Lieber by any means. Noone gives Contreras any credit but when he started he was awesome. His troubles came as a reliever. Must be a game day prep/mindset type of thing, but I only remember excellent starts out of him when he was actually in the rotation.
posted by Bernreuther at 04:18 PM on December 02, 2003
I'm vehemently pro the Yankees signing Brown for one reason and one reason only: When I was about 6 or 7 years old and still extremely unknowledgable about baseball (and the sporting world at large) I went to a Tulsa Drillers (who used to be the Rangers' AA ballclub, now affiliated with the Rockies) baseball game with my cub scout troupe. I was very excited about attending the game and went apeshit at the souvenier stand. One of the items I purchased was a Yankees' logo baseball. I have no idea why, as I had no feelings for the Yanks and they weren't even a very good club at the time, but oh well. Anyways, on my way back from the stand, a couple of my fellow scouts pointed to a moustachioed man in the stands and told me that he was a really good pitcher (I doubt Brown was with the Rangers at this point in time; more likely he was playing in Tulsa or for the OKC 89ers) and they dared me to ask for his autograph. I slowly approached him and meekly requested that he sign my Yankees ball. A few years later when I put two and two together, I kicked myyoungerself for being such a dumbass. I need this for closure, people.
posted by Ufez Jones at 04:30 PM on December 02, 2003
Jeff Weaver was a very good pitcher on a very bad team at one point. I don't think swapping him for a (probably) over-the-hill Kevin Brown is a bad move. I guess I will do what every other Dodger fan does, expect the worst, hope for the best.
posted by jasonspaceman at 07:04 PM on December 02, 2003
I still think Brown is really good, and he'll be the best #4 starter in Baseball. The Yankees & Red Sox are playing a game of both spending more money, but they both have to replace players for every one they gain. They both want to upgrade at every position, and this is a big upgrade for the Yankees. I think the Yankees are going to end up with A-rod as well.
posted by djacobs at 08:15 PM on December 02, 2003
If the Yankees get Kevin Brown, the Red Sox will be back to playing catch-up. What? I don't see any 'catching up'. I'll take the current boston staff over the yankees with brown any year. That said, its really whose staff stays healthy that rises to the top.
posted by justgary at 08:33 PM on December 02, 2003
Dodgers should jump all over this...even if Weaver sits in the pen and never sees the field it's a good move. Every pitch Brown throws is seemingly exponentially closer to his last. I like Kevin Brown, a great pitcher and a hard worker, but the Dodgers are never going to get anything near an ROI for his contract. In this day and age a salary dump isn't such a bad idea, and perhaps the change of scenery makes Weaver a viable pitcher. Now if the Dodgers saved all that money and stand pat, that's bad. If they take that money and get another overpriced old guy (I'm hearing Palmeiro grumblings), that's bad. If they take that money and get a good younger player or a couple-three solid mid-level players (they need a ton of bats) that could be good. And have to agree with justgary, I don't see the catch up even if the Yanks get Brown. Martinez-Schilling has the chance of being the best 1-2 starter combo since we have seen since last Thursday, with Johnson-Schilling.
posted by pivo at 09:05 PM on December 02, 2003
They both want to upgrade at every position No. Not at all. While no one if really off the table if a fantastic deal comes along (maybe the exception being pitching and... varitek) -- the red sox are not looking to upgrade every position. The Yankees are obviously happy with third, or they wouldn't have signed Boone. It goes without saying that Jeter, Matsui and Posada are there to stay. I also think they'll either keep Sori at 2nd or move him to CF. The former more likely. I'm curious as to what NYY wants with A-Rod besides keeping him away from Boston. (Gammons says the Boston-Arod deal is more than 50/50 at this point. Stark also gives Boston a heavy edge.) It's a ridiculously hefty price for playing keepaway. From what I've heard ( in the press and on the NYY fan message boards) A-Rod doesn't want to play anything but SS and Jeter has said the same. i've also heard that Jeter and A-Rod don't get along any more, but I don't know how absolutely true that is either.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:18 PM on December 02, 2003
the red sox are not looking to upgrade every position. Really? It's possible that next year the Red Sox will have three new outfielders, SS, 2B and Catcher.
posted by djacobs at 09:27 PM on December 02, 2003
They aren't actively looking to upgrade at every position. Yes, a lot of contracts are up at the end of 2004, but that doesn't mean they are looking to replace every single one of those people right now. They are going to re-sign Varitek. You can go to print on that one. Manny could very well be traded for A-Rod, if what Gammons/Stark is saying is right. If the Manny trade goes through, chances are Nomar goes to the west coast.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:43 PM on December 02, 2003
Gee, I wonder if the A's tried talked to Schilling, A-Rod, Boone, Brown or Colon... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaeepp
posted by dusted at 09:43 PM on December 02, 2003
They aren't actively looking to upgrade at every position. I think we're saying the same thing. I'm not proposing the Red Sox turn over the whole roster, but no spot on the roster is off limits, and the GMs of the Red Sox/Yankees are looking at every player remotely available.
posted by djacobs at 10:37 PM on December 02, 2003
Talk to me about catch-up next September. Now let's put this deal together for Ufez!
posted by 8ighteenAcres at 05:09 AM on December 03, 2003
"So they made me no assurances, no promises, but it was their intention to try to keep Pedro and Derek [Lowe] and the core of this team together. That kind of works hand in hand with me wanting to compete with this team for four years." i dont know how to take 'core', but i'll presume for the moment it means at lleast pedro and lowe, varitek... in slightly a related note, i heart curt schilling. okay, that is all
posted by jerseygirl at 06:04 AM on December 03, 2003
The Times says that the Sheffield deal may be in trouble.
posted by tieguy at 07:29 AM on December 03, 2003
Oh, and the same article says that the Brown deal is a no-go- the Dodgers would look to trade Brown only if they get lots of offense in return for him, which it looks like the Yankees would be unwilling to offer at this point.
posted by tieguy at 07:36 AM on December 03, 2003
Ack! Sputter! (groan) Dieeeeeeeeee....... (ihatetheseguys)
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:38 AM on December 03, 2003
Ack! Sputter! (groan) Dieeeeeeeeee....... (ihatetheseguys) shocking news. really. thanks for stopping by. why do you bother at all then? you hate the yankees, you hate the red sox, you mention it nearly every time you enter a thread. i imagine if i went into toronto threads and said, "i hate the blue jays/raptors/leafs/etc. they suck. their fans suck. kiss my ass Toronto!" it would get old pretty fast and i'd be pissing people off. generally, you have fine input, but give it a rest. yeah, you hate boston and ny. we get it. those who enjoy one or both (if thats even possible) of these teams are enjoying the conversation.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:47 AM on December 03, 2003
and i am not super pissed or upset or insulted or whatever. just mentioning it -- i've been biting my tongue for a little bit. please don't start a lockerroom thread about how we're alienating female red sox fans or something. we're not and it's all cool. besides, i wouldn't want jbou to become so overjoyed at the thought of despondant red sox fans that he'd spontaneously combust into tiny little pieces. ok, that's a lie. i would... in closing, :) and ;) and :o). ok bye.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:05 PM on December 03, 2003
Ha ha! Yes, let's avoid the MeFi melodrama... We can scream at each other like adults, dammit. I can relate with Weedy, although I don't hate either team. It sucks to read about all those names and dollar signs when your team has absolutely no chance at either. Yes, the Florida Marlins won, but the Yanks and Sox were thisclose, in large part because they can afford the best players, Moneyball be damned (and adopted by the Sox). Bitterness is to be expected, especially from dedicated fans of perennial cellar dwellers. But, few teams are run as well as the evil twins, so really the bitterness should be directed at the management of the bad teams, or the league's financial system. Blame Bud Selig - that always makes me feel better, and he deserves anything and everything you've got.
posted by dusted at 12:46 PM on December 03, 2003
Point made dusted and I understand weedy's situation. I do. I have to see if I can find the AP story... I read it in an actual newspaper (gasp). it would probably make a good FPP. There was an interesting point about how the luxury tax and the CBG were supposed to give money to the smaller market/smaller budget teams in order to create parity, when in truth, the owners are still cutting down payrolls and pocketing the extra money.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:01 PM on December 03, 2003
No need for Drama. Mefi was a community hub - the haight & ashbury of the blogging revolution. Spofi is a chat room.
posted by djacobs at 01:12 PM on December 03, 2003
Yeah, that's exactly the financial system I'm talking about. If I remember correctly, that was the issue the player's union had with the salary cap: the lack of a minimum salary. Add in crap like the Brewers cutting the few good players they have right after getting a taxpayer-funded stadium, and you've got the perfect recipe for bitterness. I'd be interested in the article if you can find it.
posted by dusted at 01:20 PM on December 03, 2003
I'd be interested in the article if you can find it. done. :)
posted by jerseygirl at 01:29 PM on December 03, 2003
Though he hasn't demanded a trade, sources told The Times, he has the right to as a player with at least 10 seasons in the majors and five with one team. Brown was 14-9 last season with a 2.39 ERA, second-best in the NL, and 185 strikeouts in 211 innings. Brown to Yankees trade rumors are hot again over at ESPN.
posted by djacobs at 01:30 PM on December 03, 2003
I swear to god if they trade Johnson for Brown I will become a Red Sox fan.
posted by Bernreuther at 02:04 PM on December 03, 2003
SpoFi: There Are Only 2 Teams In MLB
posted by kokaku at 04:09 PM on December 03, 2003
Yes, but who is the other team besides St. Louis?
posted by wfrazerjr at 07:29 PM on December 03, 2003
Cubs, of course
posted by kokaku at 09:32 AM on December 04, 2003
The deal involving Brown and Weaver is a dead one now.
posted by jasonspaceman at 01:59 PM on December 04, 2003
Weaver wore out his welcome after 1 tumultuous seasons with the Yankees... Man, there's some quality editing. I still kind of thought this would be a decent deal for both teams, simply because Brown is likely to wind up in a retirement home by the end of this season and the Yankees could take the chance. The Dodgers, however, think they can get more than Jeff Weaver. Good luck to them.
posted by wfrazerjr at 03:16 PM on December 04, 2003
You think so? I think George has got to be losing his mind with this one. Brown is injury-prone in a steady warm weather-type climate. And he's not getting any younger to boot. You think he'll excel here? He'll end up spending more time on the DL than on the mound. This one stinks of desperation. Along with the acquisition of Flash. And if Boston gets Foulke.....what, will Steinbrenner go after next? Bring back John Franco? Terry Mulholland? Mike Williams? Keep it up George, you'll be doing nothing short of making a fool of yourself.