January 22, 2019

SportsFilter: The Tuesday Huddle:

A place to discuss the sports stories that aren't making news, share links that aren't quite front-page material, and diagram plays on your hand. Remember to count to five Mississippi before commenting in anger.

posted by huddle to general at 06:00 AM - 14 comments

Not Ted Williams.

Not Babe Ruth.

Not Willie Mays.

Not Stan Musial.

Not Mickey Mantle.

Not Ken Griffey Jr.

Not Ty Cobb.

Not Cy Young.

Not Honus Wagner.

Not George Brett.

Not Mike Schmidt.

Not Yogi Berra.

Not Johnny Bench.

Not Greg Maddux.

Not Pedro Martinez.

But a failed starting pitcher who threw only 1238 innings (which is just about the same number that Babe Ruth threw in his career) is the one that gets 100% of the HOF vote.

posted by grum@work at 06:38 PM on January 22

What grum said....

posted by tommytrump at 07:26 PM on January 22

Yankees sign Danny Farquhar to minor league deal

posted by tommytrump at 08:24 PM on January 22

fair, grum and tt ...

BUT the dude was the undisputed greatest reliever of all time, and pretty much up until the day he walked away from the game.

[This from someone who despises everything Yankee]

.. I'm sure he knows that he is no Willie Mays.

posted by cixelsyd at 11:07 PM on January 22

I egregiously left out Hank Aaron from my list of "should have 100% of the vote before Rivera" players.

posted by grum@work at 11:48 PM on January 22

BUT the dude was the undisputed greatest reliever of all time

Matt Stairs is probably the undisputed greatest pinch-hitter of all time.

Among players with at least 350 pinch-hit appearances in their career, Matt Stairs (507 PH appearances) put up the highest OPS (.829) among all of them, and it isn't even close. Nobody else with at least 350 pinch-hit appearances even breaks .790 OPS.

Player #Matching PA OPS
Lenny Harris927969.650
Mark Sweeney819830.726
Dave Hansen768742.709
Greg Gross748839.637
John Vander Wal659665.751
Smoky Burgess606640.794
Manny Mota597666.734
Orlando Palmeiro538605.683
Jerry Lynch524557.770
Jim Dwyer524559.733
Gates Brown522531.793
Terry Crowley521581.721
Matt Stairs507540.829
Red Lucas505506.682
Elmer Valo496516.696
Jose Morales496585.748
Steve Braun496538.788
Greg Norton492522.720
Mike Lum491502.677
Jay Johnstone474498.637
John Cangelosi469525.603
Greg Dobbs468480.672
Tim McCarver466493.651
Denny Walling456501.710
Gerald Perry436447.762
Mike Jorgensen436507.616
Jerry Hairston435462.747
Dave Bergman434486.664
Jason Michaels433492.659
Tito Francona431484.636
Dave Clark430453.737
Dave Magadan429488.706
Matt Franco428426.683
Rusty Staub426447.769
Larry Biittner426446.637
Lee Mazzilli417455.691
Daryle Ward409413.747
Dave Collins405465.617
Keith Lockhart403438.694
Joel Youngblood402461.684
Vic Davalillo400446.647
Wes Helms393433.740
Harry Spilman392396.664
Thomas Howard392426.713
Orlando Merced390416.767
Ed Kranepool386413.697
Randy Bush384422.690
Enos Slaughter382447.741
Kurt Bevacqua379444.708
Jimmy Stewart375436.581
Milt Thompson372423.703
Dwight Smith371396.770
Danny Heep367386.629
Ernie Lombardi366393.687
Gary Varsho365369.643
Ed Kirkpatrick364408.638
Jim Wohlford362421.588
Dalton Jones359395.675
Tom Hutton359387.736
Ron Fairly359450.672
Thad Bosley359401.755
Champ Summers357399.692
Eric Hinske357376.720
Jose Vizcaino355409.586
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/23/2019.

posted by grum@work at 12:11 AM on January 23

Side note: I would have voted for Rivera for the HOF if I had a ballot, so this isn't a statement that he shouldn't be in the HOF. I just think it's weird that the voters decided HE was the one that should get the first 100%.

Now that someone has finally done it, I fully expect it to happen again. Derek Jeter seems like the obvious choice, and then it's pretty slim pickings until the 2024 ballot.

However, I'm putting all my hopes into Larry Walker getting a big push in his final year on the ballot in December, but with 21% to make up, it's going to be tough.

posted by grum@work at 12:19 AM on January 23

Breakdown of balloting (revealed vs anonymous):

Full ballot: overall, then (tracker/anonymous)
Mariano Rivera 100% (100% / 100%)
Roy Halladay 85.4% (92.7% / 76.4%)
Edgar Martnez 85.4% (89.7% / 80.1%)
Mike Mussina 76.7% (81.6% / 70.7%)
Curt Schilling 60.9% (70.1% / 49.7%)
Roger Clemens 59.5% (70.5% / 46.1%)
Barry Bonds 59.1% (70.1% / 45.5%)
Larry Walker 54.6% (65.8% / 40.8%)
Omar Vizquel 42.8% (38.0% / 41.9%)
Fred McGriff 39.8% (39.7% / 39.8%)
Manny Ramrez 22.8% (25.2% / 19.9%)
Jeff Kent 18.1% (17.5% / 18.8%)
Billy Wagner 16.7% (17.1% / 16.2%)
Todd Helton 16.5% (17.5% / 15.2%)
Scott Rolen 17.2% (20.9% / 12.6%)
Gary Sheffield 13.6% (13.7% / 13.6%)
Andy Pettitte 9.9% (6.4% / 14.1%)
Sammy Sosa 8.5% (11.1% / 5.2%)
Andruw Jones 7.5% (8.1% / 6.8%)
Michael Young 2.1% (1.3% / 3.1%)
Lance Berkman 1.2% (0.9% / 1.6%)
Miguel Tejada 1.2% (0.0% / 2.6%)
Roy Oswalt 0.9% (0.9% / 1.0%)
Plcido Polanco 0.5% (0.0% / 1.0%)

Anonymous voters still hate Bonds/Clemens/Schilling, didn't believe the hype for Walker, but liked Vizquel, Kent, Pettitte, Young, Berkman, Tejada, Oswalt, and Polanco more than revealed voters.

posted by grum@work at 12:29 AM on January 23

When the ballot came out, I had a discussion with a Yankees fan whom wasn't sure Mariano Rivera was a first ballot HOF candidate. :P

Mariano Rivera performance on the field got him in the HOF. The fact he was friendly to writers and is not linked with any performance enhancing rumors probably got him the 100% vote. It probably was tougher for voters to NOT vote for him than to vote for him.

posted by prof at 10:16 AM on January 23

I think Rivera getting unanimous induction is more indicative of the changing nature of the electorate (i.e., the old dudes who would not vote for someone on the first ballot on which he was eligible as a matter of "principle" aging out of the electorate/dying - or maybe just happening to be Yankees fans) than any sort of statement about his place in the pantheon. Also does not hurt that he played for the most visible team in the sport, won multiple World Series, has never had a whiff of controversy around him, and exhibits humility, selflessness, philanthropy, etc. Kind of just a perfect storm of features.

The Matt Stairs comparison is kind of fun in the sense of two players that did a very good job in somewhat specific/limited role, but Rivera has a career bWAR higher than 17 starting pitchers who are in the Hall of Fame (including Koufax), whereas Stairs' overall value is lacking. (And I know (think?) grum was just using that comparison as a rhetorical device.)

And here's echoing the hope that Larry Walker gets a big bump in his last year on the ballot. Although if Tony La Russa (together with Jerry Reinsdorf, apparently) could get Harold Baines through via the Today's Game Era Committee (successor to the Veterans Committee), hopefully La Russa managing Walker for his last season plus in MLB provides enough juice in that room to put that Committee in a position to actually get one right.

posted by holden at 11:50 AM on January 23

I think Rivera getting unanimous induction is more indicative of the changing nature of the electorate

Yeah. It's not a referendum on everyone who came before but an acknowledgement the old "Not 100% the first time" thing was stupid and needs to die. Rivera was a perfect candidate for that.

posted by yerfatma at 01:19 PM on January 23

Somewhat surprising that Mariano didn't loose a few votes from non-Yankee writers in retaliation for the deliberate omission of Pedro from ballots.

posted by cixelsyd at 01:38 PM on January 23

At least one HoF voter had initial reservations, but changed his mind.

Regarding the election of Edgar Martinez, this would appear to be a good omen for the eventual inclusion of David Ortiz when he is eligible.

posted by Howard_T at 02:05 PM on January 23

Regarding the election of Edgar Martinez, this would appear to be a good omen for the eventual inclusion of David Ortiz when he is eligible.

That was a mandate from a few voters: If you guys don't vote in Edgar, how the hell can you vote in Ortiz?

posted by grum@work at 07:13 PM on January 23

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