October 07, 2003

Sox Win: to advance to the ALCS, surviving a wobbly bullpen performance and a scary injury and winning with class.

posted by kirkaracha to baseball at 12:24 AM - 59 comments

I'm about a mile west from Fenway, but I'm being told that over on that side of campus, the rioting has begun. Yankees/Red Sox... shit is about to hit the fan!

posted by swank6 at 01:46 AM on October 07

What I don't get is that "A's blast Lowe" thing- I was watching the game, didn't see anything like an obscene gesture- the guy was just pumping his fist! According to the article, Tejada was "screaming" mad, vowing some revenge or something- I'm guessing he's just pissed they lost, and finding some blame to put out there, some way to swallow the bitter pill. I don't know what alleged gesture Lowe is said to make.

posted by hincandenza at 02:13 AM on October 07

he does the arm swingy thing everytime he ends a game with a win. he did it a few times last night before Varitek picked him up and hugged him. if you can find it, take a look at his no hitter from last year or any win really. Oakland general manager Billy Beane escorted the crying Tejada away. Well, uh Tejada is a pretty passionate guy, that was clear before the series was over. FOX got a nice closeup of him screaming "Motherfucker!" after striking out last night and Tejada was "screaming mad" in the dugout in the 9th before they even lost. "Derek Lowe is going to be paid back for that sign," Tejada screamed hysterically through the clubhouse, shouting expletives. "My kid is in the stands. He's going to pay." I'm Miguel Tejada. You have insulted my family. Prepare to die. I think it was a misinterpretation... and hell if they are pissed they lost another series, i can understand that too. If any team can understand the pain of coming so close and losing, it's the Red Sox. The Johnny Damon collision was petrifying. It looked like he was bleeding from around the eyes at one point. Some of the Oakland fans behind the Red Sox dugout weren't cool regarding Jackson after the collision, but whatever I guess. Good game. Scary game. Nailbiter.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:21 AM on October 07

I was down at the Cask and Flagon last night. Fenway was a total madhouse after the win. I'm sorry the A's misinterpreted Lowe, but he's really not the kind of guy who flips off another team. (As opposed to the Oakland fans behind the Red Sox dugout, yeah.)

posted by Bryant at 06:27 AM on October 07

Lowe's arm movement looked suspiciously like simulated self-abuse. I wondered about it even before I read this story, but chalked it up to clumsy handwork. I figured he was attempting to do the same manuever that hockey players do after a goal: 1. Honk the horn, Mr. Semi Truck driver! 2. Thank you for honking! You rock! 3.. Bring the fist back to your chest. 4. The train goes choo-choo down the track! 5. I am the eggman! Choo-choo-ca-choo! I like the fact that Tejada went on a teary tirade after losing the game. I think the greatest athletes do that -- just as I cried all the way home from losing the Richardson YMCA's championship football game in third grade. I hope his family stopped for ice cream on the way home.

posted by rcade at 06:40 AM on October 07

Wow. Say what? Lowe slapped himself near the cup on his way down from the fist pump. You're seeing what you wanna see if you take that as an obscene gesture. What a load of crap. We lost, but we didn't really lose because we saw you make a rude gesture. Give it up. If Thom Brenneman and Steve Lyons didn't mention it after spending 3 innings on Manny's unsportsmanlike conduct, it wasn't there. I cannot believe Lowe got out of that jamb. Not because I don't believe in him (my nightly comments in 2001 notwithstanding), but because it was an ugly scenario. I think the Melhuse at-bat was the first time in a long time I saw an unintentional intentional walk.

posted by yerfatma at 06:48 AM on October 07

Are you accusing me of wanting to see Lowe pleasure himself? Don't get the wrong idea because I watched it again in slo-mo with Tivo.

posted by rcade at 06:55 AM on October 07

Actually, he did his arm swinging thing, stopped for a heart beat, looked directly at the A's dugout and then did something that looks like "slapping the crotch". It was not part of his usual celebration. I thought it was a bit obscene and wondered why he added that in at the end. The funny part is how exactly do the A's intend to get Lowe back? He won't EVER be at the plate to get beaned. Do they have some minor league player that I don't know about that can control exactly where he hits and can drive a ball directly at Lowe? Manny Ramirez, however, should expect a nice juicy fastball between his shoulder blades sometime next season. Walking slowly and then pointing at the Red Sox dugout when the ball cleared the wall is DEFINITELY showboating. They had the sound turned off where I was (hockey draft) when he hit the homerun, so can anyone tell me if the announcers commented on Ramirez's actions? As for the "head knockers ball" in the outfield, even in super-slow-motion that collision looked viscious. I'm really surprised that both players regained consciousness that quickly. Finally, when those A's fans started taunting Jackson on his way back to the dugout, and then made "come on, let's fight" motions to David Ortiz, I was kind of hoping security and the umpires would turn their back so Ortiz could "bend, fold, spindle and mutilate" them. It takes a whole extra level of cowardice to taunt an injured player and then challenge a guy to a fight when you know he can't/won't get to you.

posted by grum@work at 06:59 AM on October 07

Are you accusing me of wanting to see Lowe pleasure himself? Don't get the wrong idea because I watched it again in slo-mo with Tivo. And now I'm not supposed to get the wrong idea? ;-)

posted by therev at 07:21 AM on October 07

so can anyone tell me if the announcers commented on Ramirez's actions? For three fucking innings. rcade, I was addressing the A's directly ('cause I know they visit for my insight), but thank you for letting us all know a little something special. It was not part of his usual celebration. Err, I've watched 90% of the kid's games since he and Varitek came over. It wasn't anything new to me. Boy ain't the brightest porch light on the block. And it's hard to imagine (if a thought were crossing his mind) the one thought in his head in that instant was, "I need to show up the A's," as opposed to "How the fuck did that work? Twice!"

posted by yerfatma at 07:27 AM on October 07

good for the sox. i didn't think they could do it, they showed some guts in an incredible game. sure sounded like there was a good number of sox fans in attendance too. manny needs to grow up, though. and to tell you the truth so does ortiz. talk about acting like an amateur. what the hell is he doing even thinking about going after a fan? your teamate is out cold in center field and this guy cares more about what some retard in the third row has to say. wait until you get to new york buddy......he's lucky he doesn't play in the outfield where yankee crazies can get to him. love to see how he would react to some of things i've heard out there spewed to the opposition over the years. so now the question is....how does the sox rotation fall into place?.....is it going to be pedro 3 & 7? this sure ain't 99 though for this go around.....

posted by oliver_crunk at 07:39 AM on October 07

I didn't see it and I think there's been enough discussion about pitching the bird on-field this week to keep Lowe from trying it out. ...and regarding Ramirez let the A's throw at him next season...maybe it'll make them feel better, but it's not the worst bit of grandstanding ever on a baseball field (even though I think it was more him showing his emotions than showboating)

posted by YukonGold at 07:39 AM on October 07

Lowe was doing some weird cowboy up thing. Can't even believe this is an issue. And Tejada is pissed because he left millions on the table after dropping off the face of the earth after having a few career years. Now he has to empty out his locker because the A's can't resign him. I'm just curious to see what Billy Beane does next. Moneyball really has me looking at the game a lot differently.

posted by usfbull at 07:40 AM on October 07

how does the sox rotation fall into place?.....is it going to be pedro 3 & 7? I belive that is the assumed plan. Wakefield, Game 1....Lowe, Game 2...Pedro, Game 3

posted by YukonGold at 07:41 AM on October 07

Re: Manny- You can’t point at your own dugout after blasting a homerun? Shut up. You’d do it too. Seriously.

posted by Samsonov14 at 08:14 AM on October 07

Wow - just a great game. Props to the Sox, they managed to come through, hopefull just step one on the road to a Cubs Sox battle of the curses. But I pity you if you are an A's fan. 9th time in a row they failed to eliminate a team. Chavez and Tejada were no shows. I think Boston 'won' game 5 - but 3 and 4 were just given to them. I turned the game off after the last out and missed all this drama y'all are talking about though. Too bad. That also may have been the greatest head butt ever thrown.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:26 AM on October 07

You can’t point at your own dugout after blasting a homerun? Shut up. You’d do it too. Seriously. got no problem with that....and i suspect the A's don't either.....but this whole 1 finger in the air thing manny has going while the game is still in the 6th inning is obnoxious, uncalled for and just plain bush league nonsense. act like a pro. you still got 3 innings to play....you ain't won nothing yet.

posted by oliver_crunk at 08:30 AM on October 07

Got to agree with Samsonov on this one. Manny's been sucking it all series, leaving men on base all over the place. Tied game 5 and he belts in 3 runs - hell yeah he has a right to walk to 1st and point to the Sox dugout, the A's dugout, the MLB Commissioner, the Pope and anyone else he wants. We want athletes to excel and not to celebrate ? We're the only ones who have a right to celebrate? Nuts to that. I was dancing all over my living room. Am I a longtime Sox fan? Yeah. Am I psyched the Yanks beat the Twins? Hell yeah. Sox in 7. Bring on the Cubbies.

posted by kokaku at 08:33 AM on October 07

oh no! Can't both the yankees and the sox lose this next series? Go Marlins.

posted by corpse at 08:47 AM on October 07

What scenario will be more scarring for Tejada's kid: A) Seeing Derek Lowe allegedly point to his groin? or B)seeing your father have an expletive-laced nervous breakdown and swear revenge on another man. I'm going with B.

posted by usfbull at 09:03 AM on October 07

I can't believe no one is talking about how much Darian Jackson's head was shaped like a light bulb during his discussion with Peter Gammons after the game. Amazing he stayed in the game. I must of watched the game on the Disney Channel, because I didn't see anything obscene about Lowe's performance, except perhaps how pulled the pants of the last two A's hitters down to their ankles. How the hell do two guys stand at the plate and let strike three go by in the bottom of the ninth? As a matter of principle, Manny Ramirez WILL take at least one fastball in the back next season, and deservedly so. No one's saying you can't point into the your own dugout, walk around the bases and generally be a dork after hitting a home run. Just expect to pay for it next time you face that team. Crap, I'd spike a nun in a church-league game if she pulled that.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:04 AM on October 07

Re: Lowe's celebration The reason I think it LOOKS like a taunt is how he finished it. Watch it again when you get the chance. First arm swing: fist pump up, over the shoulder, facing his dugout Second arm swing: fist pump, up TO the shoulder and stopping, facing home plate Third arm swing: REVERSE of the first two, DOWN, and onto this groin and bouncing off WHILE FACING THE A'S dugout That third movement is completely different than the first two and I think THAT is what makes the A's believe it was directed towards them. Do I really think he was taunting the A's? No, but I can see where they might get that impression. How lame is it that I'm disecting the victory celebration? Pretty damn lame, I believe.

posted by grum@work at 09:14 AM on October 07

"Crap, I'd spike a nun in a church-league game if she pulled that." Now that I would like to see!

posted by jasonspaceman at 09:22 AM on October 07

What a game. The people pulling for the Red Sox outnumbered the people pulling for the A's (including me) by about 15 to 1 at our regular MNF bar. I could have done without 500 shots of Jillian's though. ManRam would have been plunked in his next at bat if he pulled that crap in the regular season. I didn't see DLowe pumping. Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer got worked over pretty well, he'll probably be out for about a week.

posted by mbd1 at 09:27 AM on October 07

If they are still pissed about it, fine. Manny can take a pitch off the back or shoulder next season. Won't be the first or last time Manny takes a hit next year. What scenario will be more scarring for Tejada's kid: A) Seeing Derek Lowe allegedly point to his groin? or B)seeing your father have an expletive-laced nervous breakdown and swear revenge on another man. or screaming Motherfucker! on tv. "Hey Miguel, we've got kids at home watching tv! You're going to pay!" I can't believe no one is talking about how much Darian Jackson's head was shaped like a light bulb during his discussion with Peter Gammons after the game. Amazing he stayed in the game. I know! His hat barely fit on his head! Watching that collision and watching Jackson want to go back on the field with Damon... man. It was a rough rough thing. My interpretation of the Fox announcers, in their brilliance: "My god, this very tough to watch. Let's show it again in case someone hasn't seen it the first 42 times we replayed it. Yep, still tough to watch." and... it's damian jackson ;)

posted by jerseygirl at 09:29 AM on October 07

Darian, Damian ... he's "LightBulb Head" to me now. :P Jgirl and usfbull, excellent points about Tejada's behavior being much worse than Lowe's, even if you say he was simulating masturbation (boy, how long have I been waiting to bust out THAT phrase?) at the A's. And I'm still laughing at the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer jab. I love you guys! I once, jason, had a religion-related softball experience worth sharing. I was driving by a local field and saw some people warming up for a game. I pulled in to see if it was anyone I knew (which it wasn't), and one of the guys called me over and said they needed a first baseman. I always have my equipment in the car, so I change and trot to my position, where I play pretty well for a few innings. In about the fourth or fifth, I hit a long line drive down the right-field line that should have scored two, but it hit the top of the fence about two feet foul. Now, perhaps I should have been tipped by the skill level of the folks around me, but being the thickie I am, I yell, "Goddamnit, you sonofabitch!" as I round first base. Everyone stops and I realize — I'm playing in a church-league game. Needless to say, I kept my head down and my mouth shut the rest of the way. Here's hoping Miguel stumbles into one of those games himself in the near future.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:46 AM on October 07

my sucky no-TV, no-baseball-on-TV-here-anyway* life. sigh. *not explicitly true mind you, but close enough. damn, sounded like a great series

posted by gspm at 10:00 AM on October 07

[post deleted]

posted by jerseygirl at 10:14 AM on October 07

help please.......i've been blinded!

posted by garfield at 10:17 AM on October 07

uh, ok. not good. someone remove that, they dont like me linking the caveman picture! sorry guys!

posted by jerseygirl at 10:24 AM on October 07

Wow! I wondered what John Rocker was up to lately!

posted by wfrazerjr at 10:43 AM on October 07

Yahoo's running a hilarious photo of the Oakland As fan being restrained after mouthing off while Johnny Damon was being strapped to a board.

posted by rcade at 11:15 AM on October 07

That pic is great, Rogers. I was a little disappointed last night when they showed the guy getting grabbed for a fleeting second, but switched angles almost immediately. To make matters worse, the Tivo isn't working. Anyway, thanks.

posted by Samsonov14 at 11:27 AM on October 07

Great pic! The A's need to give that meatball cop a tryout. He looks like Pudge's big brother.

posted by dusted at 11:30 AM on October 07

The punch to the back of the head that preceded the choke hold really made me feel like there was justice in the world. Ortiz being cut loose on the fat guy would have helped too.

posted by yerfatma at 11:38 AM on October 07

Christ people it was a celebration. No need to dissect a la JFK. Great game, good win. Good night.

posted by lilnemo at 11:38 AM on October 07

Oh I take a little exception to the kid being power-locked and thrown out violently by the cops. He was yelling at the Boston bench for all I saw. Sometimes I think (and the sporting media in complicite in this too) that there is a general attitude that fans should feel priviledged for being allowed to pay hundreds of dollars to sit and watch millionaires play games - without being able to rail on them like good old' fashioned drunk fans. I've been to Fenway and heard people shouting things that would make Sam Kinison blush. What's the big deal? Why are you happy that a huge cop punches a guy in the back of the head?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:42 PM on October 07

cause someone was laying on the field, possibly with life-threatening injuries, and jackass thinks its time to rib the away team.

posted by garfield at 01:53 PM on October 07

A story said that he threw something on the field first. Even if he hadn't done anything like that, the scene was getting a bit out of control -- it looked like another player/fan brawl was in the making. Watching on TV, I figured the cop scapegoated that guy as a way to get things back under control before it got completely out of hand.

posted by rcade at 02:23 PM on October 07

Weedy, you dirty hippie, there was no punching. Those three guys in the stands were threatening to fight a player (with taunts of "Bring it! Bring it!" with the accompanying hand motions), and since we've seen already seen people on the field get beat up by fans, I don't have a problem with security restraining those guys. The reason I'm happy about it is because it's a total dickhead move to taunt a player who just managed to get to his feet after colliding hard with a teammate, especially when that teammate is in the process of being laid on a stretcher. Not cool.

posted by Samsonov14 at 02:29 PM on October 07

The reason I'm happy about it is because I wasn't there to do it. No fan of police brutality me, just frustrated beyond measure at the time. Also, the kid gave the cop a pretty good shove trying to get away and that's when he got hammer-locked for his troubles. I don't think he was a scape-goat at all: it looked like he was the one getting into it with the Sox and then a few other brave souls joined in.

posted by yerfatma at 02:34 PM on October 07

"He was saying it was my fault and we suck and things of that nature," Jackson said. "It was terrible timing. I live in the Bay Area, and I felt ashamed to call myself a Bay Area resident. This guy is yelling stuff like that as a guy is getting carted off on a stretcher." Good Non-Boston account of the fan incident Fans should be allowed to say whatever they want, with the knowledge that if they say enough the player(s) might jump into the stands to kick their ass. But this one is pretty cold. Put yourself in Damian Jackson's place woosy and thinking that your friend and teammate is seriously hurt... and this yahoo is placing blame on you?

posted by YukonGold at 02:35 PM on October 07

Where the hell was Terry O'Reilly when we needed him most?

posted by yerfatma at 03:03 PM on October 07

What a series. Games like last night's make me shake my head when I hear how people want to drastically change the game (like making a game 7 innings instead of 9). The game is fine the way it is. I'm not a big fan of show-boating, but at least Manny waited until the playoffs, unlike say, Bonds who does it after every. single. homerun. I thought the announcers would never shut up about it. Its an uphill battle from here (for the redsox), but it should be interesting.

posted by justgary at 03:36 PM on October 07

If you haven't yet, read this recap. Especially if you're a Red Sox fan.

posted by Samsonov14 at 08:19 AM on October 08

Ah, Bullshit - fans stayed in their seats - players came out of the dugout to confront the taunting. Yes, it's pretty classless of the fans to tell Jackson that it was his fault (and, really, it was - that's Damon's play - but niether of them were calling for it so I'll give hime the benefit of the doubt) but they did not step out of bounds with any of their behaviour as far as I can see. If any reason why the situation was getting out of control it was because part of the Boston team decided to confront the fans outside of the duggout. But I appreciate the need to scapegoat so it doesn't get out of hand - I just am interested in why we all immediately jump in and support that kind of behaviour on behalf of the players and stadium management. That injury was hardly life threatening. Don't exaggerate. I'm hardly a hippie. Ask Garfield. The hippie.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:53 AM on October 08

That was one of the best Sports Guy columns in a while, passionate and funny, and not above bashing the idiot manager. Speaking of which, Joe Morgan is at it again, in his column claiming that the Red Sox now seem to have destiny on their side... he says that while noone else in the world would have drawn in the infield (which would seem to imply that it's idiotic), Grady did and he admires him for it, because it worked. Riiiiight... it worked, because it didn't completely backfire because they got two lucky strikeouts. That's like saying removing everyone from the infield altogether and playing with 4 players "worked". He then goes on to say that the Yankees have the edge due to pitching, based on the sample size of the last 4 games... um, Joe, did you happen to see the 4 games the Sox put up 10 runs on the Yankees top starters this year? Or that they outscored them by a larg margin in the 19 games, despite losing 10? What an idiot. Anyway, I've got the Yankee paraphenlia around the office, which at least on my floor, is not going over well... many more Sox fans around here than Yankee fans, oddly enough.

posted by Bernreuther at 09:53 AM on October 08

We have 1 lone Yankee fan here. He's a NY to Boston transplant. He started a Yankee uprising and was quickly distinguished. :)

posted by jerseygirl at 10:06 AM on October 08

players came out of the dugout to confront the taunting Inaccurate. Ortiz was walking Jackson back when the fans leaned out to get their attention. It's irrelevant either way. that's Damon's play Uh-huh. But he never called Jackson off. And they probably couldn't hear each other. And it was an incredibly important out. It's pretty fucking unlikely either of them is going to hold up, so I find it amazing you can assign blame here. it was because part of the Boston team decided to confront the fans outside of the duggout Right. And a rape is only a problem once the victim reports it to the cops.

posted by yerfatma at 11:25 AM on October 08

distinguished? :)

posted by Bernreuther at 11:41 AM on October 08

Yes - players came out of the duggout - Kapler, Nixon and more than a few others when Ortiz and Jackson started to talk back to the fans. Did you watch the game? Read my post - by usual standards that is Damon's play - but I said that becuase neither of them called for it - likely because neither of them thought they wer going to get to it that I wouldn't lay blame. That rape example is horribly stupid as comparison. Fans can shout until they're blue in the face - it ain't an issue until the players start shouting back. You're referring to the Boston team as victims? Whatever.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:58 AM on October 08

extinguished! hahah. ahem.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:16 PM on October 08

Whoa, take it easy chief-- we're arguing from two different points of view (me: completely biased Sox fan) and we'll probably never agree. Save the "Did you watch the game?" shit for someone else. Fans can shout until they're blue in the face - it ain't an issue until the players start shouting back. That's your opinion and your welcome to it. My feeling is there is an unspoken line there and any normal human being can avoid crossing it. The idea athletes have to put up with anything fans can come up with is ludicrous to me (and I laughed my ass off at the Nets fan who held up a sign reading, "Somebody Please Stab Paul Pierce!"). If we're both in a bar, you spill your beer and your best friend slips and tags his head on the railing, falls on the floor bleeding and . . . I start pointing at you chanting, "All your fault, it's all your fault!" would that be ok? What if I paid a cover charge to get into the bar?

posted by yerfatma at 12:31 PM on October 08

And what about this guy? Should we laugh at his pain?

posted by lilnemo at 01:13 PM on October 08

Ah - you're too nice Yerfatma. We could've had a nice yelling match - shouting across the vaccuum of the internet. Look I'm not saying that the guy wasn't being an asshole. I'm just daying that the Sox made the issue bigger than it needed to be. You pay a cover charge to get in the bar, it's not with the expectation that I'm the entertainment - unlike a fan at the ballpark. And I think that by your thinking you laughing at me is licence for me to attack you - but I think I'd rather tend to my fallen friend than give an asshole the attention he's looking for. (not calling you an asshole.) I also agree with you that the athletes don't have to put up with everything - but that's a real grey area. I just don't think that those fans crossed the line (just was shouting fuck you Ortiz you suck too - I'm quite the lip reader)- I think the Red Sox did - they just invited that kind of thing by acknowledging it. I just find the whole conumdrum a tad absurd - and I revel in that little bit of entropy. Lilnemo - I think that there is a difference between recognizing the absurd and laughing at someone's pain. And yes, that guy's death is funny - not every death is tragic and mournful. Hell, Uday Hussein got wasted by a whole platoon in his bathroom. That's pretty unfair - until you consider the circumstances. AND - ta-da! Funny!

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:47 PM on October 08

On a completely different tangent... I just finished reading Moneyball, and was literally reading the chapter about the postseason collapse in 2002 while the collapse in 2003 happened. It was a great way to read a great book: sitting in a comfortable chair with good light, reading the Chad Bradford biography between innings while he's pitching on TV. Too bad the results weren't different. I've been an A's fan since I was a kid, (yes, even during the bad years between the Bash Brothers and the recent success). I have to say that this was the worst I've ever felt after a loss. Where can the A's go from here, besides trying the same ideas again? Every year it's so close but something bizzare happens. Jgirl, you've all got Bucky Fucking Dent. Now we've got Eric Fucking Byrnes to go with Derek Fucking Jeter.

posted by dusted at 02:53 PM on October 08

Sorry dusted, that's no way to go out. Sucks. Of course, we've also got Bill F. Buckner, Calvin F. Schiraldi, Babe F. Ruth, Ennis "Country F" Slaughter, Johnny F. Pesky, Bob F. Gibson, Bill F. Lee, etc.

posted by yerfatma at 03:37 PM on October 08

Where can the A's go from here, besides trying the same ideas again? I do believe that the people in San Jose (including Santa Clara County Assessor Larry Stone) have not even come close to giving up on moving the A's to the South Bay. Obscure office aside, Stone is apparently a very big politico in my corner of the Bay so, Giants territorial rights aside, that is certainly one answer to the question of where a bigger payroll might come from.

posted by billsaysthis at 04:00 PM on October 08

I do believe that the people in San Jose...have not even come close to giving up on moving the A's to the South Bay Cool, then they could be the San Jos-A's. © 2003 kirkaracha

posted by kirkaracha at 06:20 PM on October 08

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