June 02, 2010

I'm stunned by that call. It wasn't even close. Wow. Even the guys in the Cleveland dugout were shocked by that blown call.

posted by NoMich at 09:05 PM on June 02, 2010

That was an atrocious call. If they can, the MLB really should overturn it.

posted by drezdn at 09:13 PM on June 02, 2010

Watched it live and was utterly appalled. Anything close and you have to ring him. But what a freaking catch at the top of the 9th!

posted by bdaddy at 09:19 PM on June 02, 2010

What a fucking travesty. A motherfucking travesty.

That was the 21st perfect game in Major League history, Jim Joyce you can go fuck yourself.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:21 PM on June 02, 2010

That was Don Denkinger like.

And what Y Y M said.

posted by tommybiden at 09:24 PM on June 02, 2010

In the ideal world Selig would grant Galarraga his perfect game. Then again, in the ideal world Joyce actually makes that call.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:37 PM on June 02, 2010

Looks out to me.

How 'bout now?

posted by NoMich at 09:46 PM on June 02, 2010

A freelance reporter during the interviews afterwards says the umpire admits he blew the call.

posted by grum@work at 10:01 PM on June 02, 2010

Right is still right if it takes a couple minutes to get there.

Amen to that!!! What a travesty.........and I can't believe it wasn't overturned.

posted by Bozemanite at 10:20 PM on June 02, 2010

I hope someone spits on that ump, for baseball's sake.

posted by Hugh Janus at 10:45 PM on June 02, 2010

But really, whats the deal with how easy it is to toss these things now?

It's the balance of random luck.

Remember, the National League went EIGHTY-FOUR YEARS in between perfect games (1880 and 1964).

There have also been separate 13, 14, and 34 year spans between perfect games in either league.

posted by grum@work at 12:57 AM on June 03, 2010

Want to know the quickest way to determine that the runner was safe?
Watch Jason Donald's reaction when the umpire calls him safe.
He throws his hands up to his helmet in a "Oh no! What happened?!" reaction.
Donald looks positively sick that the umpire called him safe.

Also, Galarraga was the epitome of class when all this went down.
He didn't bat an eye when the ump called the runner safe.
He didn't complain when it happened and he didn't say anything negative to/about the ump after the game.
He's been robbed of his memorable game, but not of his class.

Also, what a fucking amazing catch by Austin Jackson for the first out of the 9th inning. It was probably a more difficult catch than the one that Wise made in the Buerhle perfecto.

posted by grum@work at 01:08 AM on June 03, 2010

Can't believe it wasn't overturned? I saw numerous replays at full speed -- it was a bang-bang play. Looked to me he was safe.

As for considering the situation, Jim Joyce should only be thinking about the play, not the situation. This isn't basketball, where it seems the rulebook gets thrown out on foul-no foul calls in the last two minutes -- unless you foul Kobe or LeBron.

Give credit to Jim Leyland. He took the high road big time with reporters after the game. He said he wasn't sure until the replay; noted Jim Joyce's background; insisted his view against replay. In essence: yeah, the call went against us, but it's a part of baseball -- and it shouldn't be changed.

posted by jjzucal at 01:29 AM on June 03, 2010

what Y Y M said.

I heard that he went and apologized personally to Galarraga, and then to Jim Leyland, but I don't see as how even an emotional apology can make up for something as monumental as this in baseball. It would be like saying "sorry bout that" after you just burned a huge hole in the Mona Lisa.

What a fucking travesty. A motherfucking travesty. It bears repeating.

posted by irunfromclones at 02:35 AM on June 03, 2010

According to reports, Galarraga went and gave Joyce a hug after this interview.

Wow. Good on you, Mr. Galarraga.

posted by NoMich at 06:17 AM on June 03, 2010

In the ideal world Selig would grant Galarraga his perfect game. Then again, in the ideal world Joyce actually makes that call.

Also, in the ideal world the commissioner wouldn't be Selig but...well, anybody else.

posted by Motown Mike at 07:39 AM on June 03, 2010

Is it within baseball rules for Donald to say 'nah, the throw beat me' and let Joyce undo the mistake?

posted by kokaku at 09:00 AM on June 03, 2010

We're watching two different plays. That's not a bang-bang play?

we MUST be watching 2 different plays, because that's the definition of a bang-bang play. No one knew it was wrong until replay. Leland even admitted the same, saying he couldn't tell (that's why he didn't argue so hard initially). Did you hear the live announcers commenting during the game? They didn't start the "Oh my God's" until the slow-mo replay. One of them didn't start it until the SECOND slow-mo replay at a different angle. Reynolds in the studio wasn't convinced it was an out until the 3rd or 4th replay.

At full speed NO ONE knew it was an out. Many were screaming that it was close enough that it should have been called out, but certainly wasn't blatantly out.

posted by bdaddy at 10:15 AM on June 03, 2010

Selig allowed a tie in the all-star game. What makes you think he has the stones to overturn this?

posted by MeatSaber at 11:08 AM on June 03, 2010

No one knew it was wrong until replay.

The runner knew it was wrong.

posted by grum@work at 11:44 AM on June 03, 2010

Thanks to the timing, is this the worst call in the history of baseball?

Not as long as Don Denkinger lives.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:58 AM on June 03, 2010

Do we really want the commissioner's office overturning umpires' judgement calls ?

posted by tommybiden at 12:01 PM on June 03, 2010

Did you hear the live announcers commenting during the game? They didn't start the "Oh my God's" until the slow-mo replay.

Did you watch the game? The announcers called him out as soon as the throw got to Galarraga and then were astounded that Joyce called the runner safe.

Do we really want the commissioner's office overturning umpires' judgement calls ?

Yes.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:20 PM on June 03, 2010

Yes.

Just Safe/Out calls?

Balls?

Strikes?

Balks?

Only on 27th outs in games that would otherwise be perfect games ?

Where does it start, where does it end ?

posted by tommybiden at 12:33 PM on June 03, 2010

While MLB headquarters goes into review mode, the Michigan governor has issued a proclamation declaring that Galarraga pitched a perfect game.

Not that that is going to have any bearing on the situation.

Denkinger eventually had to get the FBI involved in his personal security (years after the 85 Series was over), and that was well before the internet era. These things don't go away quickly or easily.

posted by beaverboard at 12:46 PM on June 03, 2010

While MLB headquarters goes into review mode, the Michigan governor has issued a proclamation declaring that Galarraga pitched a perfect game.

That is the best thing she has done in seven years as governor.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:06 PM on June 03, 2010

Joyce is behind the plate in today's game. Thought MLB might hold him out. Surprising. He made one of the worst calls at one of the worst moments of his career. Just another ump wanting to be in the spotlight. Him being there today proves it. Jim Joyce Sucks!

posted by mrk124 at 01:16 PM on June 03, 2010

Hey everyone, no worries. The Governor of Michigan is going to make it all better.

posted by lawn_wrangler at 01:32 PM on June 03, 2010

MeatSaber...welcome to 25 comments ago:

But really, whats the deal with how easy it is to toss these things now?

posted by lawn_wrangler at 01:43 PM on June 03, 2010

There have been 3 perfect games thrown in, what, 6 weeks?

Two perfect games, and last night, a 1 hitter.

posted by tommybiden at 01:46 PM on June 03, 2010

My point exactly...one comment in 60? That's the definition of getting lost in the shuffle...

tommytrump, Jennifer Granholm declared it a perfect game. You can't rescind that...

posted by MeatSaber at 01:59 PM on June 03, 2010

I don't think that MLB should be going back and declaring it a perfect game. Officially there was one hit, a runner reached base, that is the end of the conversation. The pitcher recorded the final out, his team earned a shut out and the sun rose the next morning, the world continues to spin.

For the people who are saying that it was a 28 out perfect game, are you also going to recognize people like Andy Hawkins or Matt Young who threw 8 inning no-hitters but lost? What about Pedro Martinez who retired the first 27 batters only to give up a hit in the 10th? Do you give these guys credit for their accomplishments which would be in the record books if not for the activities of other people on the field?

It is a shame to see this happen, but I give credit to both Galarraga and Joyce for the way in which they have handled themselves in this media storm. Both should be commended

posted by Demophon at 02:10 PM on June 03, 2010

There's a huge difference between giving up a legitimate hit in the last inning, and the ump blowing a call...

posted by MeatSaber at 02:18 PM on June 03, 2010

IF you can show definitively that those are strikes, then absolutely those games should be perfect games. But are there definite parameters laid out by MLB what is a ball and what is a strike? Or is it completely on the discretion of the home plate ump?That means a lot towards allowing those games as opposed to this game. The runner was, on replay, clearly out. There is no wiggle room for the ump like there is on ball/strike calls...

posted by MeatSaber at 02:42 PM on June 03, 2010

Just saw Bud Selig will not reverse the call -- the correct move; you do not want to set precedence here.

Screw the replays or we'll be looking at every double play involving second base (the "in the vicinity" call).

While we're on the subject of history, don't forget Harvey Haddix. 12 perfect innings against Milwaukee on 5/26/59; Pittsburgh loses in 13th on error, intentional walk to Aaron, then Haddix allows RBI double to Joe Adcock.

posted by jjzucal at 03:32 PM on June 03, 2010

To further what Demophon said - here's a thought experiment - what if that same play happens in the first or second inning and that turns out to be the only Cleveland hit in the game? Would the level of outrage be the same or is it amplified by it being the final out?

posted by kokaku at 03:44 PM on June 03, 2010

Why isn't anyone complaining about the real villain here, the Law of Averages? He clearly clouded Joyce's mind to prevent another perfecto in such short order.

Yeah, fuck that Law of Averages guy. He's always fucking up my shit.

posted by apoch at 04:08 PM on June 03, 2010

Why isn't anyone complaining about the real villain here, the Law of Averages?

Is that the law that says that average pitchers can't throw perfect games? Tom Browning disproved that law over twenty years ago.

posted by tahoemoj at 04:26 PM on June 03, 2010

Sometimes throwing a one-hitter can be better than a perfect game.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:37 PM on June 03, 2010

This is what so many people claim they love about baseball: The human element. Calls are blown and missed all the time. A perfect game was ruined, but that's the way it goes.

That being said, I can't believe Joyce would even consider making a safe call under those circumstances. If it was close, make the "out" call in that situation.

posted by dyams at 05:33 PM on June 03, 2010

Maybe it's time to bring the asterisk back to baseball records. I remember as a kid the World Almanac listing Ernie Shore's relief of Babe Ruth as a perfect game with an asterisk since all 27 outs were recorded while he was pitching. Now it's just a no-hitter.

posted by graymatters at 06:19 PM on June 03, 2010

As an ex umpire (high school level), I have a few observations. First, the ball was hit between the normal positions of the first- and second-baseman. The first-baseman went after the ground ball, and this kept Jim Joyce from getting more than a step inside the foul line and more than a step toward first. This left him in a position that was not ideal for making the call, but is the normal position to be in when the ball is hit where that one was. The idea is to avoid getting in the way of the pitcher covering first base or the second-baseman coming toward first. Second, while the play was not a "banger", Gallaraga, covering at first, did not catch the ball cleanly but had a "snow cone" with the ball barely in his webbing. To an umpire, this makes it very difficult to determine control when making a call.

Jim Joyce said that until he saw the replay he was absolutely sure that he had made the correct call. The only thing I think he should have done, and this is not without precedent, would have been to go to the other umpires and make sure they had not seen anything he hadn't. On replay you can see the plate umpire drag down the line behind the batter-runner. His job here is to watch the foot of the fielder at first. I notice that the plate umpire is a step into foul territory which wouldn't have given him an ideal view of the ball in the glove. Perhaps the best view would have been that of the umpire at second. He began to run in from short center field to cross the base line on the first base side of second. His angle at the moment the throw hit the glove would have been perfect to make the call. In the 2-umpire system, you often get a similar angle when you are working inside, especially with a runner on second and you are on the third base side of the mound. Jim Joyce is one of the better umpires in the game, and if Jim Leyland had reminded him of the situation and asked if he could get another opinion, I think he might have.

Despite the notoriety this call will receive, it is not an excuse to bring replay any further into the game. It is a game played by human beings and officiated by human beings. Bad calls are a part of it and should remain so. An old-time umpire once said that umpiring was the only profession in which you were expected to be perfect on your first day at work and to improve every day thereafter. It's a tough job at any level, and replay makes it a lot tougher. The only suggestion I would have to improve the quality of officiating in MLB would be to have real means of demoting those umpires who are substandard.

posted by Howard_T at 06:49 PM on June 03, 2010

bdaddy:

we MUST be watching 2 different plays, because that's the definition of a bang-bang play.

Then we'll have to disagree on the definition of the term. You ever see a play where the ball seems to get there at the same time as the runner? And they show the play in slow motion from several different angles, and only after the perfect angle can they tell if the call was correct? And even then there might be disagreement? THAT to me is a 'bang-bang play'. Not when the runner is out by a half step.

I mean, you can call anything you want a bang-bang play. Out by a half step? Bang-bang play? Why not a whole step? But I think using your parameters renders the word useless. You're taking a close play, which is what that was, and calling it something else. That was a close call. There's a big difference in my opinion.

No one knew it was wrong until replay.

You're wrong. I thought it was a clear out. I think you'll find others that feel that way also. Don't trust fans? Look at the pitcher and first baseman the second after the play. They don't look mad, they look unbelieving. The look incredulous; not sure if that just happened.

Leland even admitted the same, saying he couldn't tell (that's why he didn't argue so hard initially).

A manager would have a terrible view of that call. Leland would be towards the home plate side of a sunken in dugout. Of course he didn't have a good view. Millions watching on TV had a better view.

Did you hear the live announcers commenting during the game?

Yes. The announcer immediately and emphatically yelled "out!".

At full speed NO ONE knew it was an out.

I would say most people with a good view knew he was out.

but certainly wasn't blatantly out.

Sure he was. Blatantly, completely, without question, easily, out.

I think posnanski makes sense:

The play wasn't even that close... Live, full speed, Donald was out. He looked out enough that the Tigers television announcer shouted "He's out!" He looked out enough that it seemed, for just a nanosecond, like Joyce was about to punch him out, end the game, set off the perfect game celebration. He looked out enough that when Joyce spread out his arms in the safe call, it was so unexpected that the overpowering thought, was, "Wait. Safe? What? Did Galarraga miss the bag? Did the television camera have a bad angle? Was he bobbling the ball? Did an umpire just call that guy safe one out to go in a perfect game?"

That's what I heard in the Tiger announcer's voice. And that's exactly what went through my head. He looked out. I was sure he was out. Maybe he bobbled the ball? Maybe his foot wasn't on the base? And then the replay confirmed what was completely obvious. It was a terribly missed call; so missed that I thought I must have missed something. And I think that's what I hear in the Tigers announcer's voice (after he did indeed call the runner out), the thought that 'wait, did I miss something?". But of course, he didn't.

The key there is on replay. Replay is not a part of the game on that call as there are definite parameters laid out by MLB on what can and can not be reviewed. On initial watching of the play I had no issue with the call if it went either way. It had to be slowed down significantly before you could tell for sure. posted by Demophon

No, the key here is that you're using what it took for you to see it was a blown call with what the umpire had to use (I'm ignoring that obviously I think you're wrong, that it was completely obvious from my couch without replay).

The umpire did not need replay. He had the absolute best seat in the house. He's highly trained and supposedly one of the best umps in the game. That was a close play that he gets 99.9 percent of the time I'm sure. The fact that you believe it took a slow motion replay for you to judge the call has nothing to do with a a trained umpire in perfect position 10 feet from the play blowing the call.

I feel for Joyce, and I think it's great how everything has been handled since the call, but I don't understand this spin that it was a super close play that only through the magic of replay could it really be called. That's BS. He was clearly out on a play that is called correctly the vast majority of the time, and should be by any competent ump. It was a terrible call. I doubt Joyce would disagree.

It's only on slow-mo or photos that one can tell Galarraga reached the bag first.

Wow, again, where does this come from? Joyce will get this play correct for the next 100 times. A half step is not a play an umpire should miss. Again, the announcers, the first baseman, the pitcher, they knew. No need for slow-mo or photos. If umpires couldn't call plays this obvious they'd be completely hopeless for actual bang-bang plays (and they get most of those correct also... and without slo-mo or pictures).

did not catch the ball cleanly but had a "snow cone" with the ball barely in his webbing. To an umpire, this makes it very difficult to determine control when making a call.

I agree with this. Strangely Joyce hasn't mentioned it, and I'm sure he noticed it on the replays. So either he doesn't believe it had anything to do with his blown call, or he knows he still should have made the correct call and doesn't want to appear to be making an excuse.

posted by justgary at 07:01 PM on June 03, 2010

Nobody, or nothing, much less a "perfect games", is perfect. The fact that Galarraga is OK with it is good enough for me. Play Ball!

It's just Baseball, no matter how much we think it matters, it doesn't matter at all compared to whats going on in the Gulf or elsewhere. Hopefully, it will be made right somehow, someway, for all involved. Which as I see it, are only Joyce and Galarraga. Bottom line: nobody's perfect. Although I didn't think the call was that tough at first glance, either.

Keith Olbermann just had Bud Selig as his only "Worst Person in the World"

Keith should feature himself as "Worst Person in the World" once in a while...

posted by mjkredliner at 09:13 PM on June 03, 2010

Baseball is just like life. Probably why we like it so much. You can do everything perfect and things can still go wrong. To me the big story is the character of Galarraga and Joyce. Both men are on the top of my list for how I want my kids to grow up. If I were God (which of course i'm not) I'd be smiling from ear to ear.

The standing O that Joyce got tonight causes me to believe that Tiger fans saw the big picture.

posted by rollfastbyu at 12:33 AM on June 04, 2010

This is what so many people claim they love about baseball: The human element.

Not me. I fully endorse robot umpires, even if it moves up the impending Robot Revolution by a couple years.

The aftermath of this made me more sad than riled up about the call. As has been said above, both Joyce and Galarraga have been class acts and it seems like this happened to the nicest people out there. Ideally he gets the call right. If it has to happen it would have been better if it was Angel Hernandez or Joe West blowing the call and breaking up Dallas Braden's perfect game. That would really let me get worked up about the call and still be somewhat satisfied with the result. Oh, and Ozzie Guillen as manager, just for the fireworks.

posted by tron7 at 04:13 PM on June 04, 2010

In tron's robot revolution scenario, that would happen gray.

People don't really want that. It's a bigger change than most anticipate, I think.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:19 PM on June 04, 2010

Well what would be wrong if an umpire wanted to review the video. Not instant reply when ever an opposing manager complained, but if the ump making a call had some doubts shouldn't he be the one to call for a replay view and then either stand by or reverse his own call.

In this case if MLB just allowed the ump to get a second look and correct his own call all of this could have been avoided. I hardly believe umps would object to having an option to get a second look at very important, very close calls before they are finalized.

posted by Atheist at 06:29 PM on June 04, 2010

Don Denkinger's take.

posted by BoKnows at 07:30 PM on June 04, 2010

I also think an investigation should be done on this umpires personal finances. There is a slight chance he did this on purpose. Gambling or Mob ties. You never know, and should rule it out.

posted by scuubie at 07:58 PM on June 04, 2010

You know after watching the replay again, I think the fact that the ball was kind of "webbed" had a lot to do with the call. As an umpire you are supposed to watch the bag and listen for the ball. It appears Joyce is pretty damned focused on the bag. He may have just simply not heard the ball being caught.

posted by tselson at 08:24 PM on June 04, 2010

My question for Selig is this: Why have the power to over-rule such a play if youi're not going to use it in this scenario?

It's the classic opportunity to change a bad call. As pointed out by others, since it was the last out, or should have been, it's a clean break. Nothing that comes after the play should have occured, so just wipe that last batter out of the book.

All for replay if it avoids a similar circumstance.

posted by dviking at 11:08 PM on June 04, 2010