FanDuel - WFBC

January 13, 2008

Patriots Extend Perfect Season to 17-0 : New England defeated Jacksonville 31-20, playing four quarters of mistake-free football except for a missed field goal. Florida Times-Union columnist Gene Frenette before the game: "[K]nocking off the Patriots is within Jacksonville's reach." After: "This was the football equivalent of watching Michelangelo paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel."

posted by rcade to football at 09:36 AM - 144 comments

That was a lot of fun to watch, although when Jacksonville couldn't tie in the third quarter and had to settle for the field goal, you kind of knew that they weren't going to sniff at the lead again. And that faked trick snap—wow. I have never seen a quarterback turn his back to the defence and stand still for two full heartbeats. (That's probably why it worked.)

posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:46 AM on January 13

Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel is a good comparison, but I consider it more of a surgeon slicing up a poor, helpless victim with absolute precision. If the Jags gameplan was to make Moss an non-factor, well mission accomplished (even though the game proved Moss is a devastating blocker when he wants to be). The only problem Jacksonville couldn't account for was Brady, Welker, Watson, Maroney, and Faulk. A game like this has to absolutely drive some of the whining, crying indivuals crazy who continue to try and diminish or downplay the Patriots accomplishments. They are a tremendous team, one of the best we will ever see, and I only hope we get a Pats-Colts championship tilt next week.

posted by dyams at 09:47 AM on January 13

It doesn't take away from the accomplishment -- another game of relentless and awe-inspiring perfection by the Patriots offense and Tom Brady -- but I was surprised when Brady took a dive to start the third quarter and draw a roughing the passer penalty. After a glancing hit in which lineman Derek Landri slowed down and even tried to hold Brady up to cushion his fall, Brady fell to the ground as if struck by a Mortal Kombat fatality move. That's the kind of thing Peyton Manning has done over the years to win, and it seems cheap to me. But it does show how much the guy wants this ring. As an aside, watching the Patriots week after week and hoping they lose has been great TV. I'm having trouble continuing to root against them. It's like a disliked pitcher taking a perfect game into the ninth. Can you really rank personal animus higher than the rare chance to see perfection?

posted by rcade at 09:48 AM on January 13

When the Jaguars scored and sacked Brady in the 1st quarter it looked like the Patiots had met their match... But that was memory soon lost... The Patriots were much a better team and deserved the win. 17-0

posted by BoriQa at 10:10 AM on January 13

Micheangelo and surgically precise is exactly what Tom Brady and the offense did to the Jaguars did last night.Except for the missed field goal as mentioned above.The defense has got to start tackling better,and Harrison has got to stop getting them stupid 15 yard roughing penalities.The Jaguars are a big team on both sides of the ball.I guess trying to stop them big receivers and backs has been hard for any team.Anyhow,congrats to the Jags and their fans.They just couldn't do what 17 other opponents weren't able to do and that is to stop Brady and the offense.

posted by Ghastly1 at 10:39 AM on January 13

Sittin' down at a big poker tournament last night meant I couldn't watch this game live. But, watchin' the Brady highlight reel makes me think that I really did miss one to be remembered. Wow!

posted by Spitztengle at 10:54 AM on January 13

Well. Patriots haters likely will take a break for a week. They will surely be back next Sunday with salivation about either Indy or SD knocking off the Patriots. The haters are going to come up short again, this year's version of the Patriots is that rare team that can adjust to anything that an opponent bring after it. Don't rush Brady and he finds an array of pass recievers or handoff to a running back that hammers gaps opened by the non-rush, rush Brady and get killed by draw plays or quick short passes to receivers that find open field to run after the catch, stop the run, draw plays and short passes and have Brady hit a long bomb. Interestingly, many haters think that Indy can come into Foxborough and beat the Patriots, haters would have a better choice if SD showed up. The Hoodie will drive his team like a madman if Indy wins it's game today, the taste of the failure to Indy last season is still fresh in his mouth. Someone pointed out that the impetus for the perfect season by the Miami Dolphins in 72 was their failure to advance in a key playoff game the year before, great coaches have a way of turning a burning failure into a bigger success. The only key Patriots players that were not on the team last season are Moss, Welker, Stallworth, and Kyle Brady, The Hoodie will allow neither to overlook the importance of next Sunday's game.

posted by Cave_Man at 10:56 AM on January 13

Yea, the pats are great, blaw, blaw, blaw, ad nauseam... Reminds me of "The Big Red Machine". Another team I loved to hate...

posted by canstusdis at 11:07 AM on January 13

Just another example of Tom Brady, Bill Bell and the rest of the crew kicking ass again.

posted by B10 at 11:17 AM on January 13

Thanks, CaveMan. Your constant references to "haters," as if there's no conceivable reason someone might root against the Patriots, has enabled me to fully savor the prospect of them losing again. I was going wobbly. I think most of the extra motivation blah-blah around the Patriots -- they win because of tapegate; they win because of last year; they win because Belichick was bottle-fed -- is bogus. The Pats are an incredible team with a great coach that has been fortunate not to suffer many injuries. The coaches have devised one of the greatest offenses in league history, and they have a Hall of Fame quarterback and wide receiver enjoying the prime of their careers. All of these things would be true regardless of whether they had reasons to be angry at the rest of the world.

posted by rcade at 11:34 AM on January 13

Interestingly, many haters think that Indy can come into Foxborough and beat the Patriots, haters would have a better choice if SD showed up. SD has no chance against the Patriots, as the disadvantages SD has at QB and coaching/game plan would be too much to overcome. To beat the Patriots, a team is going to have to be able to hang around on offense, and the Colts are certainly the ones who would better be able to do that between Indianapolis and SD. The Colts just match up much better than the Chargers. I suspect if the Colts win today, the line on the AFC Championship Game would be at maybe around 3.5 in favor on the Patriots. If the Chargers win today in Indy, I would guess we see a line similar to that in the Jags game -- 11 to 13 points or so.

posted by holden at 11:49 AM on January 13

I suspect if the Colts win today, the line on the AFC Championship Game would be at maybe around 3.5 in favor on the Patriots. If the Chargers win today in Indy, I would guess we see a line similar to that in the Jags game -- 11 to 13 points or so. Holden. My feeling is that you are not taking into account intangibles. San Diego lost to the Patriots in a grating fashion last year (SD had a great year, but bowed out to the Patriots easily). SD would have good reason to play the "game of their lives" on the Patriots' home field and beat the Patriots. Indy, on the otherhand, beat the Patriots after the Patriots were up by 18 points. The way that the Patriots lost the Indy game (an uncovered wide reciever not signaling the QB that he was wide open, the QB not glancing to that side of the field, the reciever subsequently dropping a sure TD pass) probaly sticks in the throats of the Patriots players that played the game and almost surely is something Belichick has not forgotten. Add the frosty relationship between Belichick and Dungy and Dungy's comments concerning videogate and you have a situation where The Hoodie would go to hell and back ten times before letting Indy beat his team at home. Rcade; There are almost insane Patriot haters posting on this board. You would like to see the Patriots lose, but you have class and seem to realize that all of us may be serving witness to potentially the greatest team and greatest coaching job in NFL football history. If the Patriots run the table, it is likely that sportscasters will be takling about them when we are either dead and gone or close to dying. How often can someone say that they witnessed some form of history? If the Patriots can complete their season, the luckiest people of all will be the ones that witnessed the 72 Dolphins do the same thing. I love sports, I love the suspense of what is taking place, I do not like when someone comes along spewing out incredulous stuff to minimize the magnitude of what is taking place.

posted by Cave_Man at 12:26 PM on January 13

Cave_man: The only thing I'm hearing is that Indy can and has beat the pats while SD hasn't beat them. Am I to take the team who beat the pats in the playoffs last year or not? I don't really think your "motivation" talk flies- it's about who can win and has the players & coaches. Indy does- SD doesn't versus the pats. Also, you can show some class by not relegating everyone who cheers against the pats as "haters." Cheers.

posted by jmd82 at 01:33 PM on January 13

There are almost insane Patriot haters posting on this board. A few. But when you throw around the term "haters," you lump the rest of us together with dopes like the guy who says they didn't go 16-0 because the Ravens win shouldn't count. Also, the way you describe the Indy loss last year is as bad as that Ravens guy. The Pats gave up an 18-point lead and were outscored 17-6 in the fourth quarter. Reducing the loss to a wide receiver who didn't signal Brady is pure homerism. Give the Colts their due.

posted by rcade at 01:53 PM on January 13

San Diego lost to the Patriots in a grating fashion last year (SD had a great year, but bowed out to the Patriots easily). SD would have good reason to play the "game of their lives" on the Patriots' home field and beat the Patriots. Where as the Patriots would have absolutely no motivation whatsoever. They clearly have no desire to go 19-0 and win the Super Bowl.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:54 PM on January 13

rcade: After a glancing hit in which lineman Derek Landri slowed down and even tried to hold Brady up to cushion his fall, Brady fell to the ground as if struck by a Mortal Kombat fatality move. If it's the same hit I'm thinking of, I remember it as a noticeably late hit. I didn't think that roughing the passer was the right call, but I did think that there should have been a call. in another comment: Also, the way you describe the Indy loss last year is as bad as that Ravens guy. The Pats gave up an 18-point lead and were outscored 17-6 in the fourth quarter. Reducing the loss to a wide receiver who didn't signal Brady is pure homerism. Give the Colts their due. I think the single biggest factor was the Pats' defense, which had several players sick with flu during that game. They couldn't hold anything, much less the Colts offense. (Brady set another record in yesterday's game, btw -- a 92.9 completion percentage, highest for a quarterback in any NFL game, regular season or postseason.)

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:03 PM on January 13

San Diego lost to the Patriots in a grating fashion last year (SD had a great year, but bowed out to the Patriots easily). You're right that the loss to the Patriots was likely grating, but SD led much of the game and pretty much gave the game to the Patriots -- the game should have been over when Marlon McCree intercepted the ball, but he found it incumbent upon himself to try to pick up some extra yardage and Troy Brown stripped him. Despite their best efforts to give up the game, the Chargers still had a chance to tie on a late 54-yard field goal that fell short at the whistle. Not what I'd call bowing out against the Patriots "easily." Now I understand that the Chargers were pissed off that NE did the Shawn Merriman dance on the field after the game and that was going to give the Chargers extra motivation going into their game against the Patriots earlier this year in the regular season. A game the Patriots won 38-14, which is actually not even a particularly good indication of how thoroughly the Patriots dominated the Chargers. So I guess I'm just not seeing the "intangible" aspect that gives SD an advantage over Indy against the Patriots. And lbb, I believe roughing the passer is the only thing that could be called in that situation. (Not saying it was the right call, but it's either roughing the passer or no penalty -- I don't think there is any other basis for a call there.)

posted by holden at 02:14 PM on January 13

And lbb, I believe roughing the passer is the only thing that could be called in that situation. (Not saying it was the right call, but it's either roughing the passer or no penalty -- I don't think there is any other basis for a call there.) So, there's actually no such penalty as a "late hit", so it's always either roughing the passer or roughing the kicker or unsportsmanlike conduct or some such?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:25 PM on January 13

I think that basically any late hit on the quarterback is, by rule, roughing the passer -- and that it's also, for all intents and purposes (if not by definition as well), an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

posted by holden at 02:30 PM on January 13

What holden said. I think any late hit on the quarterback is always a fifteen yard penalty. With kickers and punters there are two penalties; running into the kicker which is only a five yard penalty and roughing the kicker which is a personal foul, fifteen yard penalty.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:55 PM on January 13

I suspect if the Colts win today, the line on the AFC Championship Game would be at maybe around 3.5 in favor on the Patriots. In NFL lines, the home team generally gets a 3 point boost. Do you really think the Patriots, who have been double-digit favorites all season long and were heavy favorites at Indianapolis earlier in the season, would only be 1/2-point favorites on a neutral field next weekend against the Colts?

posted by bender at 02:59 PM on January 13

In NFL lines, the home team generally gets a 3 point boost. Do you really think the Patriots, who have been double-digit favorites all season long and were heavy favorites at Indianapolis earlier in the season, would only be 1/2-point favorites on a neutral field next weekend against the Colts? Moot point now, huh? But I would have suspected less than a touchdown.

posted by holden at 03:22 PM on January 13

My congrats to the Patriots. If they beat San Diego next week and win the Super Bowl, they will go down as the best team that ever played, with 85 Bears a close 2nd.

posted by Nakeman at 03:32 PM on January 13

Moot point now, huh? But I would have suspected less than a touchdown. Too bad. Patriots-Colts would seem to have been a much better matchup.

posted by bender at 03:35 PM on January 13

rcade: I think most of the extra motivation blah-blah around the Patriots -- they win because of tapegate; they win because of last year; they win because Belichick was bottle-fed -- is bogus. I couldn't agree more. The Patriots were being identified as the team to beat this season since almost immediately after the last Superbowl. Yeah, some other things might have got them a little fired up, but being fired up will only get you so far. Among the many reasons why they have had the season they've had is that they added some key pieces to an already great team during the off season. If spygate had never happened, they would very likely still have had a remarkable season.

posted by Joey Michaels at 03:40 PM on January 13

The hit on Brady would have been called regardless of what he did. It wasn't much live, but the replay showed the problem: there were a full two beats between Brady releasing the ball and getting hit. Regardless, Jacksonville played a heck of a game and had a terrific offensive game plan, one the Pats were frustrating slow in adjusting to. With a good draft/ some more talent at WR, they should be good for years to come. Even if Indy winds up in some salary cap trouble, the AFC South is an amazing conference.

posted by yerfatma at 03:41 PM on January 13

Too bad. Patriots-Colts would seem to have been a much better matchup. Before today, I would have agreed with this strongly. After watching today's Colts-Chargers game, I'd say so only because of how banged up the Chargers got in the course of the game. The Chargers really impressed me -- it's too bad they got so gimped up. In contrast, the Pats (who were in a better situation injury-wise going into the weekend) had a couple of guys who got shook up on plays, but got away (again) without incurring any new injuries that might be a factor next week. If Ellis Hobbs can make it back, they'll be as close to 100% as any team could possibly hope to be at this point in the season, and that's going to be a big edge over the Chargers.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:56 PM on January 13

Yeah, that's always been my understanding of the roughing the passer rule- it's a late hit on a particular player, and the rule is basically one beat/step. If the QB has let go of the ball, and more than one beat or step has passed and you still hit him, it doesn't matter if he brushes you off, or falls to the ground, or Nicolas Cage's all over the field- it's still a roughing the passer, because you should not have touched him. Whether intentional or not, Brady was hit hard enough to fall, the rest was Oscar-level work (like that amazing fake snap to the runner play- holy schniekes!). Brady had a game for the ages yesterday, and that 26-28 could easily have been 28-28: his only incompletions were on-the-money drops (that Welker drop that would have kept the drive going was so frustrating!). If he has that kind of patience next week... it'll be a massacre. The Patriots have so many options, you simply can't cover them all, and the only weak link is if Brady can't find them. But when the offensive line gives him some extra time, and he "takes what the defense gives", he looks damn good.

lbb: (Brady set another record in yesterday's game, btw -- a 92.9 completion percentage, highest for a quarterback in any NFL game, regular season or postseason.)
There were at least three records, however inconsequential- highest completion percentage, and along with that most consecutive completions in the playoffs (16, before his first of two incompletions), and I think they flashed up something about most home wins/winning percentage in the playoffs; I believe he's undefeated at home, or had the most wins at home, or something. Harrison also extended/set a record for most consecutive playoff games with an INT, at 4. Really, at this point- with the Colts out of it- those not fans of San Diego, Green Bay, Dallas, or New York should be rooting for the Patriots: this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see perfection. As someone said earlier, if you go into the 9th with your team being beaten by a perfect game... you start rooting for a perfect game, even if it's the Yankees.

posted by hincandenza at 04:00 PM on January 13

Oh, and highest QB rating in playoff history (141.4). Odd that it wasn't "perfect" as a QB rating, because you can't imagine a better game, but I guess his yards-per-pass was too low.

posted by hincandenza at 04:11 PM on January 13

Indy can and has beat the pats while SD hasn't beat them i realize this is now a mute point, but lets be clear nobody has beaten the patriots. nobody. not this year. last years team didnt have randy moss. they didnt have wes welker. and they didnt have rodney harrison. what happened last year is irrelevant to this year. a few teams have been close, but nobody has beaten them. the close games, by the way, do nothing but support the fact that they can adjust to any situation, which only makes them that much more formidable. there is no blueprint for beating them. if the chargers, cowboys, packers, or giants figure one out they will probably be the champs, but so fare there is none. nobody has beaten the pats yet, and im betting nobody will (although i still expect the super bowl to be won by a field goal, its just their m.o.) in regards to spygate: can anyone tell me what game they would have lost if it hadnt been for that? can you tell me anyone that they were able to gain the advantage on because of the tape of the jets that they immediately turned over? was it happening before? yeah probably. it does in every other stadium. tape-gate is just a good excuse for haters (not all fans of non-new england teams, but true haters) to demean the nearly imposible feat that the patriots are two games away from accomplishing. get over yourselves, and take some joy in the piece of history you are witnessing.

posted by elijahin at 04:26 PM on January 13

Patriots-Colts would seem to have been a much better matchup. I'm not sure on that one either. The Colts couldn't beat a backup quarterback and running back in their house.

posted by rcade at 04:29 PM on January 13

can you tell me anyone that they were able to gain the advantage on because of the tape of the jets that they immediately turned over? A minor bit of cheati-, er, gamesmanship doesn't make you go 17-0. But if the taping gave the Pats no advantage, why do it? If we accept as a given that Belichick is a genius, then he must have thought it was helping his team.

posted by rcade at 04:32 PM on January 13

According to Nostradamus' 35 quatrain SD will be the Pats 27-17. Don't take my word for it, read it yourself. If you can find it.

posted by Folkways at 04:55 PM on January 13

But if the taping gave the Pats no advantage, why do it? We already had this discussion back in September. This question was answered then.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:05 PM on January 13

If we accept as a given that Belichick is a genius Oh geez, there's that word again. I concede nothing of the kind, except Belichick is a very talented coach and motivator. Genius, give me a break.

posted by Nakeman at 05:06 PM on January 13

Well, now that the colts are out I really don't see anyone stopping the Pats going 19-0. Congrates to SD, and good luck to the Pats. But back to the "should be rooting for the Pats to go 19-0" rubbish mentioned above. Seeing perfection is well and good, (and god knows it'll shut up the media) but it will take some of the fun out of watching another team try to do the same. It's like supporting Man. City (a team that always loses) and then seeing them near the top of the league. You get an identity crisis.

posted by Goyoucolts at 05:32 PM on January 13

Hey, I'm a huge Pats fan, but don't sell the Chargers short. Underestimating them is maybe a tiny part of what got them here in the first place. One thing I like about the Patriots is that they keep stressing it is always about winning the next game and that they could easily be beaten if they don't work hard and bring their A game every week. You don't hear a lot of "oh, we're going to win that one" from the major players. I don't think this is false humility - this is the truth. Any team in the NFL could beat any other team in the NFL on, as the saying goes, any given Sunday. The Chargers could well be the ones that stop the Patriots next week. I hope they don't, but they seriously could,

posted by Joey Michaels at 05:56 PM on January 13

Nakeman, I think "genius" is a perfectly acceptable term, provided it comes with the modifier "football", as in "football genius". If genius is the rarified combination of talent or intelligence with determination and hard work, then I have to say... Belichick is a football genius. How rare is his football mind, then? Out of the 300 million americans, how many could match Belichick's football wits? One in a thousand? One in ten thousand? One in a million? There isn't just one "genius" in the world at a time, it's the term for people who are in rarified territory in their field. There are musical geniuses, artistic genius, mathematical or scientific geniuses, etc. And there are football geniuses- of whom Belichick is surely an example. He may not perfect cold fusion, or cure cancer, but when it comes to football Belichick has shown his ability to plan and adapt to be second to none. Goyoucolts: Well, the expected matchup was Colts/Pats in the AFC Championship. I can see there being a lot of split there, had that occurred: the Colts are a mighty team, arguable as good as the Patriots in overall ability and the defending Superbowl champions to boot. But now that the Colts are out, why would a casual fan, or someone who roots for a team no longer in it (except the Dolphins fans), want to root against the Patriots except in a "they've won enough and I'm sick of it!" kind of way? If the Pats do win the Superbowl, many of us may never see another 19-0 team in our lifetimes. As it stands, I'd most rather face the Cowboys, against whom the Patriots would probably be the most effective. The Patriots faced the Chargers and beat them handily, they faced the Cowboys and beat them handily. The Giants gave them their toughest competition, in Week 17, and they've never faced the Packers. I think 18-0 is a pretty good likelihood, but I know the Patriots and Belichick won't let themselves get the mindset of penciling that win in ahead of time. On preview: what Joey Michaels said. The Chargers could beat the Patriots, but since Belichick and Brady will be burning the midnight oil to work out a game plan, I don't see the Patriots given anything but 60 minutes of 100% football. The hardest part for the Patriots is they don't really have much to change or adapt or learn from their previous meeting, whereas the Chargers can work on a number of changes. The Chargers won't get an overconfident team, which I kind of think happened today when the Colts probably planned for a "stop LT and we'll surely win" game plan, and had the same effectiveness as "keep Randy Moss covered" worked for the Jaguars. After that, I think the NFC Superbowl representative will be whomever has homefield in the NFC Championship: that's the Cowboys if they win today, or the Packers if the Giants win. As a Pats fan, I'd rather see the Cowboys.

posted by hincandenza at 06:12 PM on January 13

Although the term "genius" is sometimes used to denote the possession of a superior talent in any field, e.g., Roger Federer may be said to have a genius for tennis or Winston Churchill for statesmanship, in many of these cases the term is applied incorrectly and should instead be used specifically to denote an exceptional natural capacity of intellect and creative originality in areas of art, literature, music, science and mathematics. -- Source Wikipedia Bill Belichick is an exceptional talent. Probably the most exceptional football coach to come along in many years. His success is dependent on others skills and his success is not a lone endevor. If he was true genius, Bill could take a team with a lousy talent and make them a winner with current personell. If he can take the Rams to the Super Bowl next year with their current players, he would not only be a genius, but godlike in my opinion.

posted by Nakeman at 06:57 PM on January 13

But now that the Colts are out, why would a casual fan, or someone who roots for a team no longer in it (except the Dolphins fans), want to root against the Patriots except in a "they've won enough and I'm sick of it!" kind of way? Maybe because I like the old Chargers Unis, am a die hard fan of any other AFC East team, or just don't like the Pats. I understand you're excited about your team going 19-0. It would be a helluva accomplishment. But asking that a non-patriots fan root for them because they can go 19-0 is kind of like telling me that I have to lick your boots...and like it, god damn it!

posted by cjets at 07:11 PM on January 13

But now that the Colts are out, why would a casual fan, or someone who roots for a team no longer in it (except the Dolphins fans), want to root against the Patriots except in a "they've won enough and I'm sick of it!" kind of way? If the Pats do win the Superbowl, many of us may never see another 19-0 team in our lifetimes. Well, Hal, I won't cheer for the Pats simply because this is a free country and I don't have/want to. And I think I will survive just fine if another team doesn't go 19-0 in my life time. Are you getting paid to gush like this about the Pats? I understand your enthusiasm, but geez. That said, the Pats came back in the second half with a plan to thwart any drive that the Jags could throw at them. That is why they are 17-0. And Bill is coach of the year. San Diego will have to be at their best in the AFC title game, and so will the NFC team if the Pats go to the Super Bowl. What was nice is that all the games this weekend were exciting.

posted by steelergirl at 07:35 PM on January 13

understand you're excited about your team going 19-0. It would be a helluva accomplishment. But asking that a non-patriots fan root for them because they can go 19-0 is kind of like telling me that I have to lick your boots...and like it, god damn it! posted by cjets at 7:11 PM CST on January 13 So be it. The Patriots players appreciate their fans, but it is not the fans that play the game. The Hoodie will have his team prepared.

posted by Cave_Man at 07:36 PM on January 13

How is a quarterback's rating calculated?

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:34 PM on January 13

Yang: see here. At least there aren't any factorials in it.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:44 PM on January 13

Although the term "genius" is sometimes used to denote the possession of a superior talent in any field, e.g., Roger Federer may be said to have a genius for tennis or Winston Churchill for statesmanship, in many of these cases the term is applied incorrectly and should instead be used specifically to denote an exceptional natural capacity of intellect and creative originality in areas of art, literature, music, science and mathematics. -- Source Wikipedia nakeman, clearly dr. howard gardener has not contributed his theories to wiki's page on genius. Gardener believes that there are multiple (off the top of my head, i believe the number is currently at nine) "inteligences." included ammong them are of course logic, music, the arts. also ammong them is body kinisthetics, or athletics; intrapersonal, or the understanding of relationship between people. dr.gardener believes that we will never know how many different inteligences there are, but certainly intrapersonal, and logic (which is mostly thaught of in terms of math, but can also be applied to strategy, and physics) are extremely usefull for a football coach. there is no way to quantify genius in most types of inteligence, however i think it is safe to say that bill bell' is far above average in those two types, and that the word genius is not that far of a stretch.

posted by elijahin at 08:57 PM on January 13

is far above average I agree, Big Bill is far above average. I guess the moniker, genius, is in the eye of the beholder. I just have trouble with quantifing genuis with any sport where so many varibles have to be considered. Bill B could have great intellect for football, and his teams could not do well because the individual talent is unable to accomplish the plans he puts forward. And thus, he doesn't win all the games or is .500 coach. That doesn't take away from his knowledge or expertise. But, without the winning, would the label still be applied to him or his teams. Isn't winning games and Super Bowls the reason for the genius label.

posted by Nakeman at 09:27 PM on January 13

Any AFC team in this year's playoffs could beat Patriots. I say could, because the team that does it will have to play 60 minutes of perfect offensive and defensive football, will have to come up with something in their game plan that surprises the Patriots and to which they cannot adjust quickly, and will have to hope that Patriots do not bring their A game. In other words, it could happen, but likely won't.

posted by Howard_T at 10:07 PM on January 13

In a fight between David and Goliath, I'll take David. Sure, 90% of the time David's going to get his ass kicked, but I want to see Goliath taken down off his high horse. So to David I say, "The man thinks his shit don't stink, so put an eye out!! And take him down a few notches. He's human just like the rest of us..."

posted by canstusdis at 12:10 AM on January 14

"In a fight between David and Goliath, I'll take David." Let's face it, no one's got a "stone" big enough to bring them down. There are no "Davids" out there and, whether you like them or not, the Pats will win the Super Bowl.

posted by sandskater at 01:23 AM on January 14

Bill B could have great intellect for football, and his teams could not do well because the individual talent is unable to accomplish the plans he puts forward. And thus, he doesn't win all the games or is .500 coach. On the contrary, this is exactly one of the reasons why Mr. Belichick is referred to as a "Genius." We haven't seen one of his NE teams do this yet, because not only does he have the intellect to teach and coach football. He can also draft and acquire, then motivate the proper players to accomplish the established goals. You have to qualify this by specifing NE. In Cleveland, Modell messed around too much in day to day operations, and player acquisitions, etc... be used specifically to denote an exceptional natural capacity of intellect and creative originality in areas of art, literature, music, science and mathematics. -- Source Wikipedia Also if you take a look at this statement. Mr. Belichick does possess a natural capacity of intellect and creative originality in the art, science, and mathmetics of football. 17-0 so far proves this statement. You would have to throw out the music category, for obvious reasons, however he can probably sing opera too! Belichick could write any book he wanted on football, and it would be a best seller, so there is your literature. I can understand some folks getting tired of hearing it, but you have got to give the man his due credit. Belichick has proved he is a Genius at what he does, ranking up there with the best there ever were. What is scarey is he's not done yet!

posted by jojomfd1 at 06:07 AM on January 14

Hal: Because I can root for the Packers and Brett Farve to win the Superbowl. Farve, in his 17th season, beating the Pats in a shoot-out and then quitting would be the story of 2008. Farve is not only the feel-good option, but has also had to fight the hardest to make it this far. It would be nice to reward him for coming back to play for a very young team.

posted by Goyoucolts at 09:44 AM on January 14

Because I can root for the Packers and Brett Farve to win the Superbowl. But you still can't spell his name right. (wow, people, I get not being able to spell "Belichick" properly, but Brett Favre has been around long enough that the spelling shouldn't be some strange new revelation, particularly to those who appear to be his fans, and we're having such a rash of people who apparently can't spell Eli Manning's three-letter first name today...wtf?) Farve, in his 17th season, beating the Pats in a shoot-out and then quitting would be the story of 2008. Well, it would be quite a story, that's for sure. First he has to get there, though, and I'm far from certain that that will happen.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:06 AM on January 14

The irony of the Patriots getting to the Super Bowl and facing either Favre or the Giants are both amazing. First off, having Favre, after the year he's enjoyed, making it into the big one, against Brady, the only other player who rivaled, and possibly surpassed, his great season, would be a tremendous way to end the season for the league. Second, if Eli and the Giants make it and have another shot at ending the Pats attempt at going unbeaten, after having a shot at ending their bid in the final regular season game, could ultimately be amazing. The last young quarterback who went into the Super Bowl and surprised everyone with his incredible play, especially at crunch time, was Tom Brady when he won his first Super Bowl against the Rams. Realistically, I don't see either team going to a neutral site and beating the Pats in the Super Bowl. And yes, I don't think the Chargers have any shot at getting past New England this coming weekend.

posted by dyams at 10:37 AM on January 14

Of course, the most ironic Super Bowl matchup would have to potentially be the Giants vs. Chargers. Who could ever imagine both the subjects of the 2004 draft day trade, Manning and Rivers, facing off against each other in the big game? That type of script often only happens in works of fiction. In a way, I guess believing both the Giants and Chargers will make the Super Bowl is fictitious, too.

posted by dyams at 11:34 AM on January 14

and we're having such a rash of people who apparently can't spell Eli Manning's three-letter first name today...wtf? Check out at least three spellings of "Rolen," mostly by various St. Louis fans, in the Rolen-for-Glaus thread.

posted by holden at 11:45 AM on January 14

dyams: Realistically, I don't see either team going to a neutral site and beating the Pats in the Super Bowl. And yes, I don't think the Chargers have any shot at getting past New England this coming weekend.
I agree with this. I think only two things can beat New England at this point: the weather, and themselves (or injuries, I guess). But there's still two games to play, so I don't want to get cocky... On a neutral site (i.e., not the piped-in-sound of the RCA Dome)- and I think the Superbowl is in a domed stadium this year, in Arizona yes?- the Patriots will have full avail of their wide receivers without wind, snow, or cold to slow it down. And if the opposing team tries to shut that down, we've now seen they can do pretty good with a short pass and yards-after-catch running game.

posted by hincandenza at 12:08 PM on January 14

On a neutral site (i.e., not the piped-in-sound of the RCA Dome)- and I think the Superbowl is in a domed stadium this year, in Arizona yes? It is a dome although it does feature a retractable roof. It also has some other awesome features, such as a moveable field that can be taken out of the stadium.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:12 PM on January 14

Belichick could write any book he wanted on football, and it would be a best seller, so there is your literature. Call him a genius if you want. I don't see it, and any amount of reason is not going to change your mind.

posted by Nakeman at 03:47 PM on January 14

Call him a genius if you want. I don't see it How's about we just call him one of the only football coaches who can win it all with inferior talent, and completely dominate and go undefeated with superior talent.

posted by dyams at 05:35 PM on January 14

Call him a genius if you want. I don't see it, and any amount of reason is not going to change your mind. I as well as others on here believe he is a football genius, which is a very rare thing to come across. I am just glad I am getting to see one in my lifetime, and since my favorite team is not still in it, I am rooting to see the perfect season. Just as others are doing too. Having said that, I think you may have made a mistake in the sentence above and typed the word "your" when you meant "my."

posted by jojomfd1 at 06:00 PM on January 14

Ya, we know about your quips. How about a email, my friend.

posted by Nakeman at 06:39 PM on January 14

David=Favre? Interesting...

posted by canstusdis at 07:00 PM on January 14

How's about we just call him one of the only football coaches who can win it all with inferior talent, and completely dominate and go undefeated with superior talent. Only coach?

posted by Nakeman at 07:21 PM on January 14

Call him a genius if you want. I don't see it, and any amount of reason is not going to change your mind. just so im clear on this nakeman, are you admitting to volentary ignorance? because thats damn near a ver batum quote out of my philosophy book.

posted by elijahin at 09:08 PM on January 14

volentary ignorance ??? I'm not sure what you mean by volentary[sic] ignorance? How would anybody volunteer to be ignorant, or for that matter, know the difference if they were uneducated? Plus, I'd like the name of the book your quoting.

posted by Nakeman at 09:17 PM on January 14

De Ver Batum, a little known work by Martin Luther wherein he expounds on his 95 feces.

posted by yerfatma at 06:06 AM on January 15

Martin Luther only had 95 feces? I have nearly that many New Year's Day alone!

posted by dyams at 07:18 AM on January 15

Musta been some party, dyams.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:47 AM on January 15

All I remember was waking up in my recliner with a bottle of champagne still in my hand. No driving involved, either.

posted by dyams at 08:12 AM on January 15

95 notable ones. You can't just write about any old shit that happens, unless you're a blogger.

posted by yerfatma at 09:43 AM on January 15

Amen

posted by dyams at 10:11 AM on January 15

I'm not sure what you mean by volentary[sic] ignorance? How would anybody volunteer to be ignorant, or for that matter, know the difference if they were uneducated? Plus, I'd like the name of the book your quoting. check that: its not volentary ignorance, its "willed ignorance" and according to "Archetypes of Wisdom: An Intraduction to Philosophy" from publisher Thompson/Wadsworth, willed ignorance is "an attitude of indifference to the possibility of error or enlightenment that holds on to beliefs regardless of facts."

posted by elijahin at 10:26 AM on January 15

Deep thoughts for someone who can't spell voluntary.

posted by hawkguy at 10:36 AM on January 15

some of the greatest minds in our history couldnt spell very well. mark twains publisher sent people to his house to inspect his spelling before they even bothered sending it to the editor. thomas edison got so fed up with his employees not being able to tell what he was writing that he finaly hired someone to whom he could just dictate. when edison told this to his friend henry ford, who suffered the same problem, henry followed edisons example. im not saying im on a level with any of them, but if you struggle early with spelling and the problem isnt corrected early, its really hard to fix later. it is seen by many as a sign of low inteligence but id like you to tell mr. ford, mr twain (clements) and mr. edison that they have a low level of inteligence.

posted by elijahin at 10:49 AM on January 15

If I could talk to them for but a minute, that's an opportunity I would capitalize upon.

posted by yerfatma at 10:54 AM on January 15

im with ya, but surely you wouldnt spend that minute calling them stupid,would you?

posted by elijahin at 11:08 AM on January 15

Martin Luther only had 95 feces? I guess that's what happens when you are on a Diet of Worms.

posted by Howard_T at 11:35 AM on January 15

Howard wins. Close the thread, please.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:50 AM on January 15

elijahin- Now that you spelled it out for me, and your error. I know of the book your referring. Facts have nothing to do with or without Bilichick being a genius. Facts have everything to do with him being a very good coach and he should be accorded the respect and awards he deserves. I have not criticized the Pats and even stated they will be the best team ever, if they can win the next two games. My only complaint is him being called a genius and the Rams losing in the 2001 Super bowl. That doesn't take away from the fact he's a great coach and I wish the Rams could sign him. Now, I cannot make it any plainer than that. And, assuming they don't teach Philosophy in elementary school ( your punctuation and spelling would indicate otherwise) and your in college. Suggest finding a dictionary and quit being lazy and at least spell some of the words with more than 5 letters correctly.

posted by Nakeman at 12:15 PM on January 15

Nakeman, it's really bad form to harsh on someone for misspelling words with more than five letters when you're consistently misspelling a word with only four letters. ...not to mention sentence fragments and diction errors. Consider the glass house you're in before you throw stones.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:36 PM on January 15

Word. And yes, Howard wins.

posted by yerfatma at 12:47 PM on January 15

llb- Your one to talk, you have pointed out mispelling and mistakes often enough for other people, however I guess others gets a pass. They has been here longer than me, so lets not say anything to him. What a hypocrit. Your inteeligence shows in your writungs and so does your smugness. Belichick is a fine coach and I wish him the best for the rest of the playoffs.

posted by Nakeman at 12:48 PM on January 15

Oh, you've clearly got me there, Nakeman. I yield.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:23 PM on January 15

Your one to talk /speechless

posted by yerfatma at 01:56 PM on January 15

first, can we all agree that we all misspell words regularly (i think i just misspelled misspell) and type in sentence fragments? we type the way we speak. im not lazy about spelling, i just suck at it. do you really want me to sit here with a dictionary and check every word i say? second, what do you mean by:"My only complaint is him being called a genius and the Rams losing in the 2001 Super bowl." bill bell was coaching the team that beat the rams in super bowl XXXVI. that game was actually played in 2002. super bowl XXXV was played in 2001 and featured the baltimore ravens beating down the new york giants. in neither case was coach hobo on the losing end. so what exactly are you talking about?

posted by elijahin at 03:01 PM on January 15

He's a Rams fan. He lives in St. Louis, so I'm sure he kind of resents Bill Bell the way I resent the Missouri Tigers for what they did to KU in football this season.

posted by hawkguy at 03:34 PM on January 15

first, can we all agree that we all misspell words regularly (i think i just misspelled misspell) and type in sentence fragments? we type the way we speak. Yes to the first, no to the second. It's not a big deal or anything, but the site guidelines do ask "keep the spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes to a minimum. Take pride in what you are writing. The world is paying attention".

posted by yerfatma at 03:43 PM on January 15

mr twain (clements) Samuel Clemens. Beating a dead horse, I know. Sorry.

posted by BoKnows at 03:58 PM on January 15

Thank you, elijahin. Couldn't agree more. And yes, I know that whenever a question of spelling comes up someone throws out the site guidelines. Key word here is "minimum." Obviously, a crappy post that you have trouble reading is not nice. But one misspelled word is not going to break the bank. Answering an argument with "you spelled XYZ wrong" is very childish and proves that you have no real reply to the point stated. Or you're (correct spelling, please note) just being bitchy, one of the two.

posted by Goyoucolts at 04:16 PM on January 15

first, can we all agree that we all misspell words regularly No.

posted by grum@work at 04:21 PM on January 15

Grum, I second that.

posted by hawkguy at 04:25 PM on January 15

damn goyoucolts, now that you are taking my side, i feel a little guilty for teasing all the colt fans i know. i dont remember if i gloated about that prediction on this site or not, but if i havent, i wont. just because you were nice...gopats

posted by elijahin at 04:27 PM on January 15

Samuel Clemens. Beating a dead horse, I know. Sorry you're killing me, bo!

posted by elijahin at 04:28 PM on January 15

I said sorry. Maybe the recent Matt Clement deal got in your head. If it helps anyone, just google your words, it's fun, fast, and easy!!

posted by BoKnows at 04:32 PM on January 15

/speechless posted by yerfatma at 1:56 PM CST on January 15 One could only hope.

posted by Nakeman at 04:32 PM on January 15

first, can we all agree that we all misspell words regularly No, we can't. Some of us give a damn about what we're posting here, and take the time to proofread it. Nothing any of us has to say on any subject is so important that we can't take thirty seconds to reread the damn thing, and avoid looking like a dyslexic second-grader. Have some pride in what you're doing, or don't do it at all.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:35 PM on January 15

So what happens when you do proofread but you still miss something? This happens to me every now and again... Are you just special or so intolerant of other people's mistakes that you couldn't give a toss? And who are you to say I don't take pride in my work? Though with a statement like "Friggin' Europeans" at the end of your personal bio I guess you can't help it. Hey, don't worry about it. Us Europeans hate you American wankers too.

posted by Goyoucolts at 04:44 PM on January 15

Sorry Noobs. It's a self-policed site. Think of the town in Hot Fuzz. We're that fucking hardcore 'bout spellin' and grammar.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:51 PM on January 15

Too bad there isn't a little spell check button down next to the bold, italics, and link buttons.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:14 PM on January 15

So what happens when you do proofread but you still miss something? This happens to me every now and again. Everybody goofs after proofreading. It's to be expected (I constantly substitute homonyms). The problem isn't one-off goofs, it's the constant deviation from the norm. If you care enough to express an opinion, care enough to capitalize it and use real words, that's all.

posted by yerfatma at 05:36 PM on January 15

Too bad there isn't a little spell check button down next to the bold, italics, and link buttons. Firefox automagically spell-checks textareas as you type.

posted by yerfatma at 05:36 PM on January 15

Internet explorer is clearly falling behind.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:14 PM on January 15

Who's the person with the famous "Train Wreck" photo. Now would be the time to bring it out.

posted by dyams at 06:47 PM on January 15

dyams, there are quite a few out there, but for this thread I want to nominate... And be damn glad I didn't lolcat that, y'all.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:16 PM on January 15

I contemplated a lolcat, I admit.

posted by jerseygirl at 08:19 PM on January 15

If you care enough to express an opinion, care enough to capitalize it. From your words to the eyes of God. Please!

posted by tommytrump at 09:01 PM on January 15

i dont intentionally misspell words. i do proofread, but if i knew how to spell everything i probably wouldnt have misspelled it the first time, so how am i gonna know if i got it wrong when i look back over it. what im not gonna do, is sit here with a dictionary and check every word just to please anal-retentive pricks who are so discontent with their lives that they have nothing better to do than grade everybody elses posts on a website. i think i contribute interesting discussion to this page. i think everybody who talks about the topic at hand does too, even if i think their opinions are utterly rediculous. but i can live without sf. i like comming on here and dont want to quit, but no part of my life will be significantly diminished without it. if you want to block me from the site for being a prick, or because i diminish the site, so be it. but if you want to cut me off because of i dont spell very well, that just makes YOU sad. but if you're gonna do it, do it. crap or get off the pot. either way quit whining about irrelivant crap, and contribute to the conversation. btw, dont talk about dislexic people of any age. if you dont have it, you dont get it.

posted by elijahin at 09:07 PM on January 15

elijahin- I'm sorry about pointing out your misspelling. I'm as guilty as anyone of not proof reading properly . I've seen the light and will not do it again. Your opinions are valued and I hope you continue to contribute. Would you try the on line dictionary; it will help tremendously.

posted by Nakeman at 09:22 PM on January 15

im not pissed at you nake. like i said before i do check. but if i didnt realize i misspelled it the first time, i probably won't catch it the second time around. i dont have alot of typos, i have alot of words that i just dont know the spelling of. black hand thinks that makes me stupid, which i suppose has some superficial merit, but im pretty sure that occasional bad spelling doesn't change the point of what im saying most of the time. im just tired of people who have nothing better to do with their lives but to bitch at others over things that dont matter. im not in an online english course. im here to talk sports with sports fans because in the town i live in there aren't alot of sports fans. but instead i get a damn lecture on the importance of propper spelling, punctuation, and captialization. this is a place i come to relax with other people who share my interest, and some self-righteous pricks want to play nurse ratchet. im tired of dealing with it. im think im gonna start looking for another site.

posted by elijahin at 09:40 PM on January 15

If you're going to go, you're going to go. You seem to feel that you've been very hard-done-by. Frankly, I don't see it quite the way you do, but that's not my point here. My point is that while your complaint is a legitimate subject to discuss, and I'm not trying to shut it down, that discussion really should take place in the Locker Room. So, if you want to have this out, please start a thread there -- that's the place to talk about site policy. If you want to complain about another member's conduct, the way to do that is in email to the moderators.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:50 PM on January 15

thats a fair point lbb, i hve never used the locker-room. until you pointed it out, i didnt even notice that it was there. as for complaining about another members conduct. i dont want to take it to that level. he has a right to his opinion. i dont want to take any formal action. i just want to be done with the issue. i would like a truce with all involved, but im not gonna impose anything on anyone. i hope we can all move past this.

posted by elijahin at 10:01 PM on January 15

lbb, I always loved the old black and white train wreck photo that used to appear, but I can't help feeling yours is somehow much more appropriate for many of these threads. Love it!

posted by dyams at 07:17 AM on January 16

im just tired of people who have nothing better to do with their lives but to bitch at others over things that dont matter. and some self-righteous pricks want to play nurse ratchet. We, as members of the site, worked with the mods and came up with some guidelines that we all agreed on, knowing those guidelines would serve the site well going forward as the Sportsfilter site and brand continued to grow. You're misconstruing that as self-righteous prickery. Where we put the time into drafting them and posting them, you can imagine we like our guidelines quite a bit and obviously stand by them as a generally self-governing site. I guess that's where the behavior you deem as "nothing better to do than bitch about things that don't matter" comes in. Yeah, it does matter. It matters to anyone who was here from the beginning and anyone who thinks we got something special going on here. It matters to anyone who wants to be above the din of places like the ESPN boards. See, it's not about you. It's not about me. It's not about any one of us as an individual. It's bigger picture. It's about the 16,000 members as a collective and the thousands more that are going to join this year. We're not the ESPN message boards. We're not a regular fan site. We try to work everyday to maintain something better. A site with this large of a consistent member base needs to have a defined order. I hope you can understand that. So how does this play out? Ultimately, that's really up to you. I do have a rather painless and quick solution. You can download Firefox. When a red dotted line appears under your typed word, you made a typo. Right click and it will give you options on correct spelling of the word.

posted by jerseygirl at 07:31 AM on January 16

Well said, jerseygirl. The reason I post on this site and stay away from the others are for just such reasons. Overall, the people who have been here for a long time put thought into what they write, and also take the time to use proper grammar and spelling. I do my best to do this, and though I'm not perfect at it, I often find myself going to the dictionary to check the spelling of certain words. What someone is saying is important, but the way they say it and present it matters, too. I've been around here for a while now, and many of the long-time members never hesitate to call me out on things I say, and how I choose to say them. I welcome it and wouldn't have it any other way.

posted by dyams at 07:47 AM on January 16

You can download Firefox. Or you can type it out in MS Word, run the spell check, and copy and paste.

posted by hawkguy at 08:49 AM on January 16

i just want to be done with the issue. Then take the time to capitalize sentences properly and misspell fewer words. Nobody expects perfection here, but the ee cummings bit you're doing, coupled with all of the misspellings, makes it hard to scan your comment as quickly as those by people who put in more effort. And that's why you're catching hell. I know I'm picking on you, but it's just the nature of the community. We pride ourselves on being more intelligent than the average sports board, and part of that is reflected in the number of people who take the time to spell and punctuate properly. Fighting that trend will just lead to more 30-comment pileups like the one that began when your spelling got flamed.

posted by rcade at 11:08 AM on January 16

Nobody expects perfection here, but the ee cummings bit you're doing, coupled with all of the misspellings, makes it hard to scan your comment as quickly as those by people who put in more effort. You know what rcade? if this issue had been approached with civility, I would have downloaded firefox weeks ago. I would have done it as soon as it was suggested. It isnt about me, and it isnt about everyone else either. I have heard from a sellect few of you on this issue. Honestly i see your point, and had it been presented in those terms, i would have made a better effort. it's just the nature of the community. We pride ourselves on being more intelligent than the average sports board, and part of that is reflected in the number of people who take the time to spell and punctuate properly. But it wasn't presented in those terms. Instead you bitch and put out these long threads about dislexic second graders (i realize that was not you specificaly, i was using the collective you). You dont come off as a community trying to keep your town nice. You come off as a gated community, where anyone who might not fit your snobbish profile must be the guy who cuts your lawn. Maybe some of you should pride yourselves on your knowledge of sports, and discreatly, and politely tell people about firefox, instead of waiting until you've already pissed them off. on that note im going to download firefox. And only because a number of you have emailed me and asked me to stay here in stepford, i will. At least for now. oh, btw, What is the policy on sentence fragments? We use them in every-day speech. Do we have to do this whole thing in MLA format?

posted by elijahin at 02:02 PM on January 16

You come off as a gated community, where anyone who might not fit your snobbish profile must be the guy who cuts your lawn. Sorry you feel like that-- a couple times a year we have a large influx of new members and we go through these growing pains. You can insult away and claim Stepfordishness or whatever, but what's here was attractive enough to get you to sign up. Maybe we meet halfway, say a hilltop in Cavalry?

posted by yerfatma at 02:18 PM on January 16

Calvary? ...or perhaps you were being ironic. Not trying to detract from your post, though. If it's snobbish for someone to ask for proper spelling and capitalization in a written forum, then we have different opinions of snobbery.

posted by bender at 03:03 PM on January 16

But it wasn't presented in those terms. Instead you bitch and put out these long threads about dislexic second graders The person to whom you are responding did none of those things. I'm probably hollering down a rain barrel, since at this point you seem like you're gonna be hard to separate from your hair shirt, but you haven't been keeping very good track of just who said what to you, and you're now well into the realm of generalized, nonproductive "you people" rants. One person insulted you personally about your spelling, and later apologized. Other people have expressed a negative view of poor spelling, without targeting you specifically (hint: you aren't the only person who's done some notable misspelling in this thread). You are taking that to be some kind of mass personal attack, and it just ain't so. The guidelines are easily available to all new SportsFilter members. Now, I admit that I don't always read every bit of fine print when I sign up for a site (although I did read SpoFi's, which are written in simple English and are neither lengthy nor difficult to understand), but if I don't read a site's guidelines, and later find that the way the site is run isn't to my liking, I figure it's on me. If someone were to point out that I'd done something that didn't fit in the guidelines, they're not persecuting me, and I shouldn't take offense and act as if they were. If SportsFilter is a "gated community", then so is any website where a member can be removed for violating community standards or terms of service. Guess what? That makes the entire web a "gated community". I'm not sure that's a very helpful definition.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:22 PM on January 16

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! I SAID I AM GETTING FIREFOX! I SAID I WILL COMPLY WITH YOUR BULLSHIT! AND THAT I JUST WANT TO BE DONE WITH THIS SHIT AND GET BACK TO TALKING SPORTS! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU SELF-RIGHTEOUS PRICKS WANT! LBB, if you would look imediately past the line that you copied off of my thread, you will see in ()'s that i was not refering only to rcade, i was using the collective "you". christ, you win. im done.

posted by elijahin at 03:48 PM on January 16

This will end well.

posted by jerseygirl at 03:51 PM on January 16

I miss the Barry Bonds threads.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 03:53 PM on January 16

Makes you want to debate the merits of the Yankees and the Red Sox, doesn't it?

posted by jerseygirl at 03:58 PM on January 16

On the plus side, he's found the shift and/or the Caps Lock keys.

posted by tommytrump at 03:58 PM on January 16

So, does Michelle Wie belong in a men's golf tournament?

posted by hawkguy at 04:07 PM on January 16

So, does Michelle Wie belong in a men's golf tournament? Who cares? Golf isn't a real sport.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:14 PM on January 16

Calvary? ...or perhaps you were being ironic. Yeah, your spelling is the one I wanted; hill for being crucified and all that.

posted by yerfatma at 04:18 PM on January 16

say a hilltop in Cavalry? Yerfatma, In St. Louis, where elijahin is from, Cavalry is one of the cities largest cemeteries.

posted by BoKnows at 04:27 PM on January 16

christ, you win. im done Sorry to see him go and sorry I ever brought up the spelling comment. He's a soldier in the Army; which I ultimate respect for in this day and age.

posted by Nakeman at 04:50 PM on January 16

Should we make a locker room thread in his honor?

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:08 PM on January 16

You know, as a long time member of SpoFi in fairly good standing- indeed, were I not out of work at the time, I would have ponied up the $100 to co-found this site when offered- I am completely siding with elijahin here. I've posted about this before- seems that we have a few long-timers who make it their personal mission to critique everyone's spelling and grammar. A simple comment, made civilly, will work so much better than demeaning someone. He also had an email in his profile that you could have privately brought up your criticisms, and explain yourself more fully. Me, I don't care. Language is about communication, and I don't find that elajahin was much of a problem at all. I didn't find his comments to be unreadable run-on sentence rants, or all caps messes; I think on the whole elijahin posts decent comments, with decent content. That wacky ravens fan who imploded after his "15-1 unofficial record" rants were getting laughed at- yes, there's a case for driving someone away, but not decent contributors who need at most a slight nudge to work on their spelling. Yes, it'd be great if his capitalization and spelling improved, but he's right that various people kind of ripped into him unnecessarily for a fairly minor issue. I mean, take LBB as just one example: when he said he was getting firefox, and trying to work harder on the issue... what you should do there is say "Hey, that's great, elijahin! I appreciate that you're taking steps to be a full member of this community, and I sure hope you stick around because it's nice to have a lot of different people and viewpoints contributing". He'd feel more a part of the community, and would self-check his own posts more rigorously in the future. Ripping on the guy for 3 lengthy paragraphs because you can't let go is NOT helping Sportsfilter, it doesn't make him a better contributor, and it just makes you and those who feel that spell check is more important than meaningful discussions look like pricks. I'd put it this way: on Metafilter, Matt, Jess, pb, and cortex don't go around ripping on people who post uncapitalized or poorly spelled comments, they let the community be itself, and only delete those comments that are particularly destructive. I'd rather have a good poster who was a poor speller, than a troll with excellent diction.

posted by hincandenza at 05:25 PM on January 16

Should we make a locker room thread in his honor? posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 5:08 PM CST on January 16 Mafia, was that comment really necessary? I really feel bad about this folks.

posted by Nakeman at 05:32 PM on January 16

that discussion really should take place in the Locker Room As LBB said about 15 posts ago, this would be a great locker room discussion. Hal, great post btw. I would disagree with most of it, but you certainly made me think about it. On preview: Nake, this is not meant to slam Elijahin. I think we should invite him to the locker room discussion and we can all vent to our heart's content. I hope he rejoins us.

posted by cjets at 05:40 PM on January 16

The comment was alluding to two (recent) previous incidents where highly respected members dramatically left SpoFi and locker room threads were created discussing their exit.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:41 PM on January 16

Good post, Hal. Thanks for standing up for us minnows.

posted by Goyoucolts at 05:45 PM on January 16

To those of you who have asked me to come back, i appreciate your intentions. I came to this site, because i wanted to talk sports with sports fans. There arent many where i live. For the first few weeks i really enjoyed comming here, but today i let someone i have never seen in person push me until i blew my cool. As much as i liked this site, if this is going to be the result of comming here, either by someone jumping my ass, or my simpathizing when you jump the ass of someone new, it just isnt worth it to me. Nobody wins with me staying here, just to run into this same problem later. so while i do appreciate the gestures of the three of you who have offered them, its probably best that i go. I wish all of you the best. Yes you too LBB. Take care all.

posted by elijahin24 at 05:55 PM on January 16

I posted something in the locker room about elijahin24-jay

posted by Nakeman at 06:37 PM on January 16

I'm sorry Elijahin is having a bad day here, but a lot of this 30-brain pileup has been due to his overreaction. You can't call somebody out for "volentary ignorance" without catching some hell. If he had taken that in stride, rather than getting madder and madder to the point that he's calling us all "SELF-RIGHTEOUS PRICKS" for a discussion he started about spelling and intelligence, we don't get to this point. I hope he sticks around. Everybody's entitled to a flameout from time to time. But like any poor speller, lazy punctuator or chat room refugee who wanders in here, he needs to put in more effort or slough off criticism about how he writes. I will email him to ensure he sees the comment.

posted by rcade at 07:26 PM on January 16

Mafia, sorry I'm not thinking clearly.

posted by Nakeman at 07:54 PM on January 16

No problem.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:43 PM on January 16

I've posted about this before- seems that we have a few long-timers who make it their personal mission to critique everyone's spelling and grammar. A simple comment, made civilly, will work so much better than demeaning someone... I mean, take LBB as just one example: when he said he was getting firefox, and trying to work harder on the issue... what you should do there is say "Hey, that's great, elijahin! I appreciate that you're taking steps to be a full member of this community, and I sure hope you stick around because it's nice to have a lot of different people and viewpoints contributing". He'd feel more a part of the community, and would self-check his own posts more rigorously in the future. Ripping on the guy for 3 lengthy paragraphs because you can't let go is NOT helping Sportsfilter, it doesn't make him a better contributor, and it just makes you and those who feel that spell check is more important than meaningful discussions look like pricks. Fuck's sake! I did NOT rip on the guy! Look, Hal, and anyone else who's inclined to try and make me the villain after the fact -- it's all right up there in black and white, just use the little scrolly bar and you can read it. I was NOT the one who personally insulted elijahin about his spelling -- I was the one who called out the person who insulted him. Jesus Christ, I was the one who stuck up for him! His reaction to the whole thing was to go round the bend, and for some reason decide that I was the cause of it all, and now you're pig-piling on? Way to go.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:32 AM on January 17

Deep thoughts for someone who can't spell voluntary. posted by hawkguy at 10:36 AM CST on January 15 Upon review, I think the comment above is what got things going down this road. Hopefully lbb posting the Train Wreck picture I've come to love so much didn't bring any of this criticism down on her. And I want to support what rcade said about members needing to sometimes put more effort into their punctuation and spelling. Even though it's still possible to figure out what someone is trying to convey when they misspell, don't capitalize, etc. I still hope everyone, myself included, takes a little extra time to ensure what they write is appropriately done. As I said before, agree with it or not, that's one of the biggest things that sets this site apart from some of the other garbage on the web.

posted by dyams at 08:31 AM on January 17

Yep, that was me, and I'm fine with it. Just like I''m fine with the "mute point" comment I posted the other day. It's not like those are the only comments I ever post, I like to think I'm a good contributer here. But as several people (rcade included) have said, we're self-policing. If the rest of us put the effort into being members, as should everyone.

posted by hawkguy at 08:55 AM on January 17

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