04/23/24
February 21, 2007
We're not playing anymore!: After Ryan Gigg's quick free kick, and resulting goal, Lille's manager, Claude Puel threatened to take his players off the pitch in protest. Not a smart move, as the match had already seen the use of tear gas on the crowd, and a crush scare.
Full highlights here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztIH6tc6Aa4
posted by JJ at 04:31 AM on February 21, 2007
And from the POV of someone who was there, take a look at The Sigla Blog
posted by Fence at 05:20 AM on February 21, 2007
If you're not acquainted with the Hillsborough disaster, reading the Wikipedia entry will demonstrate why a "crush scare" is so serious. Yikes.
posted by rcade at 07:30 AM on February 21, 2007
Those quick free kicks are completely ludicrous and should be disallowed. They are totally unfair, not to mention unsporting. The ref should blow his whistle, and then the player can take the kick. Ferguson is a pillock - just because the crappy Premiership referees allow them to happen in England, it doesn't mean a French team should be aware of them. There needs to be a specific worldwide rule put down by FIFA (and for the love of god, please sort out the offside rule while you're at it).
posted by afx237vi at 07:35 AM on February 21, 2007
Quick free kicks are part of the game. The only time that you have to wait for the referees whistle is if you ask for the defensive wall to be moved ten yards away. It was well planned, taken and a good goal, end of story, really no controversy here other than the whiny reaction of Lille.
posted by urall cloolis at 07:51 AM on February 21, 2007
The referees will ask you to wait for the whistle, very clearly, usually by holding the whistle in your face and holding up their index finger, like you're a naughty puppy who ate their last whistle. If they don't do this, then you're free to roll the dice on an early kick. This is why, if you're awake, you stand over the ball until the ref moves you back. Let the opposition kick it against your legs if they want. Ferguson is a pillock though and should exercise discretion on the subject of how other teams react to the officials.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 08:05 AM on February 21, 2007
There needs to be a specific worldwide rule put down by FIFA (and for the love of god, please sort out the offside rule while you're at it) The laws of the game are worldwide and were put in place by FIFA. The rules in France are no different than in England. Can you imagine how much time would be wasted if a whistle was needed on every restart? What do you not understand about offside? I can try to help if you need an explanation.
posted by urall cloolis at 08:18 AM on February 21, 2007
Yes, the rules of football are the same in France and England, but the interpretation of the rules vary wildly from match to match. As Mr Bismarck says, sometimes the ref says wait for the whistle, other times he just stands there and watches. Clarification is needed. Giggs may have asked the ref if he can take it, but I still think it's a very unsporting act to take a shot at goal while the keeper is organising his wall. As for the offside rule, it was perfectly fine five years ago, but has become nonsensical since the active/inactive stuff has been introduced. Again, it's way too open for personal interpretation by the officials, and seems to be different in every match I watch. I can't remember what game it was, but I was watching something last week and there was a player standing about three yards offside right in front of the goalkeeper. But because he was standing still and had his hands up in the air, he apparently wasn't active so wasn't offside. It's complete nonsense. The fans don't understand it, the players don't understand it and half the time the referees don't understand it.
posted by afx237vi at 09:18 AM on February 21, 2007
From what I could see, everything looked legit. Not necessarily even for both teams (as Lille was obviously not ready), but that's not Man U's fault. The ref should've had to made a motion or blow his whistle to the defence before the kick so they would know what was coming. However, these quick kicks are not new, and Lille should've been fully aware of that. UEFA needs to learn from this and use this incident to re-evaluate how free kicks are set-up for both teams so we don't have another Hillsborough happen. On another note, the disallowed goal on Lille that led to this whole thing was a good call by the ref, and I've never seen more immature or unprofessional conduct on behalf of a team like what I witnessed with Lille following the goal. Remind me never to go to a match at Lens.
posted by ShortyLongstrokin at 09:34 AM on February 21, 2007
There was nothing unsporting about it. The keeper doesn't have to say "OK, I'm ready now". It was a heads up play by Giggs. I will put it in terms you may understand better. If the Colts are using a no huddle offense against the Bengals and the Bengals are not at the line of scrimmage yet, should the Colts have to wait until all the Bengal players are in their proper positioning before snapping the ball? In soccer there is always an odd number of whistles. One whistle stops play for a foul. If a second whistle is blown it means there is a card being issued, there is encroachment by a player(s) or a player is injured. The third whistle signals play to resume. That is why after the second whistle a ref will hold it up, signaling that the team must wait for the next whistle to take the kick. If there is no second whistle, there is no need to wait for the third, because it will not happen.
posted by urall cloolis at 09:34 AM on February 21, 2007
If you watch the interaction between the ref and Giggs before the kick, the ref tells him he can go anytime, or something to that effect. Then you see Rooney with the ball in his hands and Giggs saying "Put it down. Put it down!" As soon as Rooney removed his hands, boom! Goal. What I don't like about this situation is that the ref was talking to the United players secretly and Lille weren't in on the secret. Being a United fan, I thought it was unsporting, but clearly within the Laws. I think this is one of those things where if it's a team you support, you'll take it.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:47 AM on February 21, 2007
I will put it in terms you may understand better. If the Colts are using a no huddle offense against the Bengals and the Bengals are not at the line of scrimmage yet, should the Colts have to wait until all the Bengal players are in their proper positioning before snapping the ball? Uh, thanks, I'm British by the way. I have no idea what you just said. (Look, I know that the quick free kick is within the rules. I just don't see it as something that's within the spirit of the game.)
posted by afx237vi at 10:33 AM on February 21, 2007
I have no time for Man United, but I'll take this all the same. Message to defending teams : Pay attention.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 10:34 AM on February 21, 2007
afx237vi, I'm with you. Unless my team benefits, I suppose.
posted by yerfatma at 12:38 PM on February 21, 2007
Those quick free kicks are completely ludicrous and should be disallowed. They are totally unfair, not to mention unsporting. The ref should blow his whistle, and then the player can take the kick. So should this be a rule on every free kick? Or just ones that could potentially be shots? Who gets to decide if it might be a shot or not? Do you make players wait for the whistle on every free kick, even in the middle of the field where they just make a quick pass and keep the game moving. I think that a rule making the players wait for the whistle would create even more subjective calls, or slow down the game, neither of which we need. Its a part of soccer. The goalie should be able to see that the ball is about to be kicked even if he is in the middle of setting up his wall.
posted by ucsdlafan at 03:02 PM on February 21, 2007
I'm with ucs. You don't wait for the opposition on throw ins. You don't wait on goal kicks. You don't wait on free kicks inside your own half. You don't wait on corner kicks. Now suddenly you have to wait on free kicks that are within an unspecified range of the goal?
posted by Mr Bismarck at 03:55 PM on February 21, 2007
There was no secret being discussed Texan. This all came up in the Thierry Henry goal either earlier this year or late last season (can't remember which). The ref will ask the player if he wants to restart on the whistle and if he says no, then he can go whenever. This is the same for Lille and Man U so both teams should be aware, but Lille were not. It was a piece of heads up play by an experienced Giggs.
posted by Ricardo at 12:06 AM on February 22, 2007
Lille were naive. They are professional soccer players and should know the rules of the game. If they aren't paying attention then they deserve to get punished. (not a Man U fan, btw, and yes Ferguson is a pillock) It is like in rugby where teams can take a quick tap and go to take advantage of the other team being out of position; it isn't one sides obligation to point out the rules of the game to the other.
posted by Fence at 02:50 AM on February 22, 2007
From the picture that this article paints about it. The riot police did not much other than to make it worse. I've never been to a match before here in the US, much less over seas, but is it always like this? It seems like every time I read a story on a match the cops are gassing the crowd or the crowd is basically stampeeding, and crushing one another. I am not trying to dump on soccer or this thread. I am just trying to learn more about it? Curious I guess.
posted by jojomfd1 at 02:59 AM on February 22, 2007
is it always like this? No. Only newsworthy events get reported, especially in the national press. The vast majority of games go ahead without any incidents of crowd disorder.
posted by squealy at 03:36 AM on February 22, 2007
Squealy's correct, (of course). There are about 40 games a weekend in England, every weekend, from September to May. Plus countless other games across Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands, all of eastern Europe... There's always once incident (big or, more usually, small) to report from somewhere, just through sheer numbers. Especially when you're looking hard enough.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 05:02 AM on February 22, 2007
Team I support, the vast majority of games go ahead without any crowd at all :D
posted by Abiezer at 05:10 AM on February 22, 2007
A friend of mine made the reserve team for your lot, Abiezer. They're a good side, ran the "right" way. I worry for what will happen to them after Grady finally moves on though. He must be about 200 years old by now.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 05:19 AM on February 22, 2007
Yet we get a lot of restless younger supporters after the last relegation, they don't seem to realise even our current league position is pretty good by historical standards. Dario is a stubborn old sod at times, but as I see it, I've seen a far better quality of footie over the years than you could reasonably expect from such a shabby little outfit, and a couple of genuine stars on their way up. I was gutted for Ashton when he crocked his ankle (was it?) just before his senior England debut. Would I have known your mate's name Mr. Bismarck? Sorry for the lengthy derail, but naturally when the talk is of quick thinking football at the top of the European game, Crewe Alexandra are bound to factor somewhere.
posted by Abiezer at 05:36 AM on February 22, 2007
I felt sorry for Ashton too. There's something about English forwards and their feet. I doubt you'll have known my mate - his last name was Dean and he was knocking about the reserves and on loan at some smaller clubs about 1995-98. Then a business he started took off and he had the choice to loiter about the lower leagues in England or concentrate on that and so he hung up his boots. When he owes me a favour he turns out for my Sunday side, which is a laugh. For everyone but the opposition defender marking him. -EDIT- And a big thumbs up for this bit too : when the talk is of quick thinking football at the top of the European game, Crewe Alexandra are bound to factor somewhere.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 06:17 AM on February 22, 2007
Team I support, the vast majority of games go ahead without any crowd at all I went to the funeral of a friend last week, who played for your team in the early 60s. He was a stalwart of our local soccer club, coached the juniors and still kept goal for the 5ths (aged 64) up until last season, when he was diagnosed with mesothelioma. Worked as a builder with asbestos most of his adult life. So, Abiezer, we're thinking about Crewe Alexandra way out here in Australia, too.
posted by owlhouse at 03:31 PM on February 22, 2007
No. Only newsworthy events get reported, especially in the national press. The vast majority of games go ahead without any incidents of crowd disorder. Thats kind of what I thought, but thanks. I would never have guessed 40 games a week just in England though, thats amazing in itself. Thanks guys!
posted by jojomfd1 at 10:33 PM on February 22, 2007
Thanks for that story owlhouse, albeit a sad end to a life well lived - I wonder if he played under the great (and recently late) Ernie Tagg, probably our best manager pre-Dario (and long before my time)? Legend has it he was working as a milkman before he got the call to manage the team he'd played for before the war.
posted by Abiezer at 08:47 AM on February 23, 2007
ok, my highschool team just got into a bit of a jam with the fast kick issue, we were deffending, and the ref. refused to give us the whistle, so..... i stood right infront of the ball untill the wall was ready, the ref. pushed to give me yellow, but didnt and said if i did it again, i would get it. so...i say no, dont make the whistle go for every shot, but do so, if some one asks for it.
posted by lookingeast at 10:10 PM on March 05, 2007
The most up-to-date reports here suggest that away fans with tickets for home sections of the ground were allowed into the away end, causing overcrowding and some panic. The police apparently misinterpreted it as trouble, hence the tear gas. Note the similarities to the Hillsborough disaster. Fergie accusing the opposition of intimidating the ref is a bit rich, given Man U's history of mass ref-badgering.