FanDuel - WFBC

January 11, 2007

Barry Bonds Throws Teammate Under "Speeding" Bus.: Ubiquitous San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds, already under investigation for, well, just about everything he does, failed a drug test in 2006. Major League Baseball won't identify the drug, but "sources" classsify it as a "serious stimulant." Bonds blames the test result on teammate Mark Sweeney, saying he got the substance from Sweeney's locker.

posted by The_Black_Hand to baseball at 06:23 AM - 126 comments

being suspected of using steroids and definitely using amphetamines puts you in a fairly sizeable group of major league players. "throwing your teammate under the bus" while trying to explain a positive drug test puts you on the list of all-time worst teammates.

posted by erkno11 at 07:47 AM on January 11

I tried Greenies once before a hockey game. They just made my teeth hurt. But my teammates enjoyed my nice, fresh breath. Agree with Erkno... There's the "I didn't know" defense. And now there's the "I stole it from his locker" defense. Awesome.

posted by SummersEve at 08:00 AM on January 11

And all this time I thought Barry was an honest stand up guy..NOT

posted by Debo270 at 08:04 AM on January 11

So he took the pills from a teammate's locker without knowledge of what they were? BRILLIANT! And why are baseball players suspended for amphetamines the first time around? If baseball deems them a cheating substance, suspend them the first time around...

posted by jmd82 at 08:15 AM on January 11

I think you summed it up pretty well erkno. The media will probably hype this for all it's worth, and maybe deservingly so. However, it was just an amphetimine test and not a steriod test. I bet we would be amazed at the number of players that fail these kinds of tests ever year if we had names. What I can't understand is why the hell he would chance ANYTHING knowing he's being investigated 24/7. I tried for a long time to stay a fan of his, but every story that comes out seems to prove to me just how big of a dickhead he really is. To hell with him, I'm done.

posted by louisville_slugger at 08:17 AM on January 11

His excuse is ridiculous -- who would take some drug from a teammate's locker and use it? Did any of Rafael Palmeiro's teammates pop his Viagra before a game?

posted by rcade at 08:17 AM on January 11

"throwing your teammate under the bus" while trying to explain a positive drug test puts you on the all-time list of worst teammates. I thought Barry made that list long ago. An indictment for perjury in the Balco case would make me oh-so-happy, since Sweeny won't make him answer for this shit, I bet. Bonds has been enabled, coddled, and spoon-fed his whole life, accountability is long overdue.

posted by mjkredliner at 09:15 AM on January 11

I personally don't believe this story. I mean Bonds couldn't be that stupid, could he? I'm beginning to think he's a walking Walgreens.

posted by texasred at 09:19 AM on January 11

Did any of Rafael Palmeiro's teammates pop his Viagra before a game? I did hear that Sosa liked to cork his bat.

posted by tselson at 10:01 AM on January 11

His excuse is ridiculous -- who would take some drug from a teammate's locker and use it? Back in the day, and I mean way back, I took some wacky tobacky from my friends locker. My mom didn't buy the excuse when she found it. If Barry gets away with this one, kids all over will have a new friend.

posted by danjel at 10:03 AM on January 11

His excuse is ridiculous -- who would take some drug from a teammate's locker and use it? Especially, Barry "I have a personal trainer, health manager, and masseuse follow me around 24 hours a day" Bonds. Ridiculous. This guy has seemingly no bottom to his integrity. However - Still best hitter I ever saw. And it is a mere amphetamine test.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:05 AM on January 11

God I'm going to hate watching Bonds break Aaron's record...

posted by Bill Lumbergh at 10:06 AM on January 11

A minute in the life of Barry: "Well i was just walking around the locker room and saw a bottle of pills. I figured why not. It worked out well for T.O so i just grabbed the bottle and took a few. What could it hurt" If this is true, Barry is the fuckin dumbest man on earth. The roids have made his head grow so much it is crushing his brain. .

posted by Debo270 at 10:08 AM on January 11

So he is a thief also? Good defense Barry

posted by scottypup at 10:08 AM on January 11

I can't help but think about people like Bill Romanowski and Floyd Landis when I hear this latest development. I mean, speed is a fine drug, especially if you need serious energy and focus for two hours out of the day. It makes a world of sense for that to be his drug of choice. But Bonds is walking a tightrope here. If it was just amphetamines he was taking, then I would think he could just cop to it and accept his punishment, and people would shrug and move on. The fact that he's making such lame excuses tells me there's more iceberg under the water here than maybe we've even guessed. If he admits to taking even one off-market substance, his whole stance falls around him, and the only people going to Giants games next year will be bringing eggs, tomatoes, torches and pitchforks. Major League Baseball, as a sport, as a business, is a total fucking mess. Soon, the all-time hits leader, the all-time home run leader, and the top two single-season home run hitters of all time, all will not be in the Hall of Fame. What's the point of having a Baseball Hall of Fame in the first place, then?

posted by chicobangs at 10:09 AM on January 11

eggs, tomatoes, torches and pitchforks...band name or sports bar name, I can't decide which. Barry Who?

posted by garfield at 10:28 AM on January 11

band name or sports bar name, I can't decide which. Perhaps a tasty omelet? Barbaro yesterday, Barry today. What's on tap for tomorrow?

posted by SummersEve at 10:34 AM on January 11

The headline of the article confuses me a little. How is saying "I stole it from my teammates locker" actually accusing his teammate for the positive test? This story seems incomplete. If he did indeed take something from his teammates locker, he should be in more trouble for stealing I would think. I guess the problem is, if his teammate accuses him of stealing, then he is admitting to having something he shouldn't have. Either way, Barry and any drug is kind of like the 3rd kid at Michael Jackson's house. Like Chris Rock said, "Another kid"? Come on man.

posted by Bishop at 10:38 AM on January 11

I'm a Bonds fan but this is ridiculous. He took pills from a teammate's locker without knowing what they were? Come on, that's what toddlers do, not long time pro ball players. Blaming a teammate for your own stupidity is about the lamest and most pathetic thing ever.

posted by fenriq at 11:15 AM on January 11

That's pretty awesome. Think about it: he's admitting that he scrounges for pills anywhere he can find them. Picture it. What a sad, sorry and perfectly appropriate image for this sad, sorry human being.

posted by diastematic at 11:45 AM on January 11

Blaming a teammate for your own stupidity is about the lamest and most pathetic thing ever. See: Palmiero, Rafael Comparing Rafeael to Bonds, relatively easy. Seeing Bond's innocence compared to Michael Jackson's, priceless. Surely MLB and it's conspirators will get Bonds one of these days, Bishop.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:46 AM on January 11

God I'm going to hate watching Bonds break Aaron's record... That makes 250 million of us! If he admits to taking even one off-market substance, his whole stance falls around him, and the only people going to Giants games next year will be bringing eggs, tomatoes, torches and pitchforks. On the road, YES! But, he's like a hometown politician..."He may be an SOB but he's OUR SOB." Bonds epitimizes whats wrong with baseball. He's also the reason that McGwire didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot. Mac never tested positive for anything that was banned. He just didn't see any benefit in talking about the "past". Because of that, he's held accountable for Bonds' "present". It's just wrong!

posted by imanage at 11:46 AM on January 11

I stopped believing anything Barry Bonds said a long time ago! First a cheater and now a SNITCH who is lying again! His story sounds like the old "But Mom I am holding these cigarettes for a friend!" He must think that the fans are really stupid! Be a man Barry, retire and go away!

posted by steelerchooks at 11:59 AM on January 11

He's also the reason that McGwire didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot. I think Big Mac took care of that one all by himself, actually.

posted by chicobangs at 12:08 PM on January 11

Barry Bonds makes it difficult to defend Barry Bonds. Mac never tested positive for anything that was banned. He just didn't see any benefit in talking about the "past". posted by imanage Or he didn't want to incriminate himself. Could be either. Stop acting like you know.

posted by justgary at 12:11 PM on January 11

Once again the coward that Bonds is shows up. His is so afraid people and the press will judge him a bigger liar then he already is. Once again I am extremely glad that his father isn't alive to see this happening. His father was a very good baseball player in his own right and I am very sure that he never had to take drugs to keep himself competing at that level.

posted by ucla512 at 12:16 PM on January 11

He's also the reason that McGwire didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot. Awesomely Unknown Things Barry Bonds is Also Responsible For Barry's bloated sense of self caused atmospheric disruption that lead to Hurricane Katrina Norwalk Virus Scientology Rapid expansion of Barry's cranium caused seismic activity creating Thailand tsunami The return of leggings to fashion O RLY owls all YouTube videos of cats doing something silly KFed

posted by jerseygirl at 12:36 PM on January 11

Now, for those who fail to grasp the obvious, I am going to say this: I think Barry Bonds is a self-righteous prick. But, playing devil's advocate here, does ANYONE reading this comments thread think that Barry Bonds is the only guy in all of baseball who failed an amphetamines test last season? Anyone at all? So why is it that HIS name is splashed up on the sports sections and websites of America today? Allow me to pompously answer my own question: It's because he's a self-righteous prick and baseball wants him out of the way SOOOOOO bad they can taste it. But because he has not failed any steroid tests and because his name was more than likely NOT on that list of players who failed the 2003 test, they cannot get him. Being the impartial sports fan I am, it would be best for all if Barry just took his ego and went home now. Being the Giants fan that I am, I concur with myself and think that my enjoyment of the game of baseball would increase ten-fold if he did. But being the realist that I am, I know that His Most Royal Highness will not depart the diamond for the last time until he has spat on each and every hallowed record he can get his roid-infested hands on. At least the San Jose Giants will be fun to watch. Cheaper, too.

posted by Cameron Frye at 12:45 PM on January 11

Is anything Barry's fault? Has he ever done anything wrong? He is such an (_o_).

posted by dbt302 at 12:56 PM on January 11

I am sick to death of the media, and the self-righteous finger waggers who promulgate their agenda with mindless nodding, making me feel that if I'm a bad person if I don't demonstrate absolute contempt and moral outrage at Barry Bonds, like he's sporting some kind of nuclear device and is hellbent on ruining America, starting with baseball. Aren't you? Best hitter ever*. Done. Next.

posted by BullpenPro at 01:13 PM on January 11

My thoughts 1) What if you had a headache and your coworker had a bottle of pills labeled "aspirin" on his desk? Not saying I believe his story, but this is going to be his argument...not the "I saw a bottle of unlabeld pills and decided, what the heck?" 2) How is it (again) that we have information that is ILLEGAL to be released, somehow released about Barry Bonds? Anyone notice a trend? 3) MLB (like the Grand Jury participants) are quoted as saying "I can neither confirm nor deny". Seems awful unfair to the man when a rumor is leaked that even if it WASN'T true, nobody can come out and say that it is NOT true. It also makes for easy journalism...I can make any claims I want to and nobody can confirm or deny it.

posted by bdaddy at 01:15 PM on January 11

Best hitter ever*. Done. Next. only if the * has a footnote that says "*an extremely maligned athlete in the early millennia, he was strongly suspected of using performance enhancing drug in an era of baseball in which it was completely legal and accepted to do so"

posted by bdaddy at 01:19 PM on January 11

I am sick to death of the media, and the self-righteous finger waggers who promulgate their agenda with mindless nodding, making me feel that if I'm a bad person if I don't demonstrate absolute contempt and moral outrage at Barry Bonds, like he's sporting some kind of nuclear device and is hellbent on ruining America, starting with baseball. Aren't you? No, because "the media, and the self-righteous finger waggers" aren't making me feel like anything. I think you gotta work that one out on your own, BPP.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:29 PM on January 11

But if they don't make us feel anything, then they are nothing more than a conveyance for news.

posted by BullpenPro at 01:34 PM on January 11

MLB and it's conspirators will get Bonds one of these days, Bishop I think you may have misunderstood my statement. Chris Rock said a 3rd kid at Michael Jackson's house would be like finding another dead white woman with OJ. So the comparison was to their obvious guilt, not innocence. Get it now?

posted by Bishop at 01:38 PM on January 11

Excellent point, llb. No one makes anyone else feel, best efforts not withstanding. Ultimately, we are responsible for what we feel. However, without assuming such causation where would praise and blame fit in?

posted by garfield at 01:39 PM on January 11

Best hitter ever*. Done. Next. Why hell yes, anyone can enjoy watching Barry make a pass at the ball, but his denial of knowing what "the cream and the clear" were, his own self absorbed image, and his astonishing HR totals late in his career, at time when most athletes skills are diminishing (even Hank and Willie's, for crying out loud) are to much for this fan to take. This incident only serves to prove that there is much more to representing the game than just being a hell of a ballplayer.

posted by mjkredliner at 01:39 PM on January 11

Why is the media doing this to poor Barry?? Why did the media make him get mixed up with BALCO?? Why did the media force that other woman on him when he was married?? Why did the media force Barry to steal pills?? Why did the media make him lie to congress?? Poor Barry what has he done to deserve this?? ANYONE who feels sorry for him is an idiot. HE has brought this all on himself and feels that he is untouchable. The only asshole is BARRY!!!

posted by Debo270 at 01:49 PM on January 11

If you really believe that Bobby Bonds never used greenies then you are in denial. These have been a big part of the game since the sixties. Willie Mays was named in the cocaine investigations of the mid 80's as giving amphetamines to one of the accused to help him play. Willie Mays and Bobby were teammates and good friends, so I find it likely that Bobby took these things as well (according to some players only one or two players on each team got by without any greenies before the ban). They even had "leaded" coffee in each clubhouse, which was speed laced coffee. When TJ Quinn was asked how many players failed the amphetamines test last year, his response was that he never got a quantitative answer, just that there were a lot. It seems this is a lot bigger problem than just Bonds.

posted by yehyeh at 01:54 PM on January 11

Or he didn't want to incriminate himself. Could be either. Stop acting like you know. posted by justgary I don't claim to know and I worded that part of my post poorly, but I think everyone else should stop acting like they "know" something negative on McGwire because they have proof on Bonds. Has McGwire ever denied taking Andro when it was legal?

posted by imanage at 02:08 PM on January 11

Guess now would be a bad time to sell my Bonds rookie cards?

posted by Ratbast at 02:10 PM on January 11

ANYONE who feels sorry for him is an idiot. HE has brought this all on himself and feels that he is untouchable. The only asshole is BARRY!!! Count me as one of the idiots. I just think that his persecution in the media and on fan boards is completely out of proportion with his alleged offenses. Even if you believe the allegations, he is a jerk and bad teammate who used illegal drugs to get a competitive advantage then denied it. Whoop tee doo. Those actions don't really get me morally outraged. Perspective, anyone?

posted by bperk at 02:13 PM on January 11

Why is the media doing this to poor Barry?? Indeed. Why did the media make him get mixed up with BALCO?? They didn't. But they've done a pretty good job of convincing you that this the equivalent to a human rights violation. Why did the media force that other woman on him when he was married?? They didn't. But they apparently convinced you that consensual extra-marital affairs among professional athletes is contained to the handful that get slammed in the press. If you're going to condemn Bonds on this, fine, but you'd better be prepared to do it across the board. Why did the media force Barry to steal pills?? No evidence necessary. You're just sure. Hook, line and sinker. Why did the media make him lie to congress?? What's your source for this knowledge. You read it somewhere. Ah. Poor Barry what has he done to deserve this?? Indeed. ANYONE who feels sorry for him is an idiot. This conclusion not from something you read or saw on TV, in which the source stood to gain by making you feel attached to the story in this way. Probably from your intimate knowledge of the man from back when you had high tea together during his Pirates days. I'm playing devil's advocate here, but if we don't realize that we don't have a closer association to this story than what the media chooses to leak to us, and in the tone the media suggests it is to be taken, then as LBB suggested we may have some work to do on ourselves.

posted by BullpenPro at 02:25 PM on January 11

Well, I, too, am an idiot. BullpenPro & bperk speak truth. Sure, he's done himself no favors with the media, but I didn't realize they sold brushes this wide. Y'all are tarring him up for every sin this side of the Lindbergh baby. Just because he's (probably) far from blameless in this whole saga doesn't mean he's not paying for the sins of many, many others as well. And for that, I feel for him.

posted by chicobangs at 02:36 PM on January 11

I'd wager that most of us had a few childhood friends who, while standing next to a broken window with a baseball glove or bat in hand, would say he/she didn't do it. Of those same friends, there was always one or two that always got away with it. Bonds is that same kid. And even now as an adult, he still gets away with it. Whatever world he lives in, it's not ours. It's probably similar to the ones celebrities like Jennifer Lopez, Prince and Michael Jackson lives in (look at all the things Jackson has been accused of, and homeboy still gets away with it.) But, from an ethical and journalistic viewpoint, I'm curious how a story in which no one is talking but unnamed sources gets published (yeah, I've heard of Watergate and read "All the President's Men" but Bonds on stimulants is not on the same scale.) I don't think my doubts make me a Bonds apologist, but if they do, so be it. These days I can't tell if it's Bonds who does sensationalistic things or the media that makes him sensationalistic. Until he gets caught and punished, tie still goes to the runner.

posted by forrestv at 02:37 PM on January 11

"Awesomely Unknown Things Barry Bonds is Also Responsible For ... KFed" Oh, that was low. I mean, I hate Barry Bonds with the seething, white-hot passion of a thousand imploding suns, but I wouldn't stoop that far.

posted by mr_crash_davis at 02:41 PM on January 11

Mac never tested positive for anything that was banned. He just didn't see any benefit in talking about the "past". McGwire told reporters for years he was innocent, but he refused to make the same claim of innocence when called before Congress, where he'd be subjected to perjury laws if he lied. I don't see any reason to believe the guy today, especially given his quick return to normal human dimensions after his playing career ended.

posted by rcade at 03:01 PM on January 11

Those actions don't really get me morally outraged. Perspective, anyone? posted by bperk at 2:13 PM CST on January 11 Poor Barry what has he done to deserve this?? Indeed. posted by BullpenPro at 2:25 PM CST on January 11 This is the catch-22 we all get ourselves into on this kind of topic. Just because I happen to disagree with you, doesn't mean that I have no perspective or have the wrong perspective. Just like I certainly don't think you're an idiot for thinking the level of anti-Barry in the world is unjust. I think that post insinuating that "ANYONE who feels sorry for him is an idiot." was as out-of-whack as anything on this site. And, in my entire time on this site, I don't recall ever disagreeing with anything else I've seen BPP post. But, I'm not with you guys. As you've claimed in other threads, bperk - If Barry is receiving death threats for breaking Babe's record or about to break Aaron's record, then that's just wrong - very wrong ... but has nothing to do with this topic. Now, if Barry is receiving death threats due to taking steroids, then that IS relevant to this discussion and is still very, very wrong. So, Yes, I disagree with that extent of anti-Barry sentiment. But, excluding the death threats, I'm otherwise not going to feel sorry for him for one second. And, yes, I believe he brought this on himself and he is a first-rate asshole. The same people who say things like "geez, lay off, it's not that big a deal" are the same people the wonder "why aren't you bashing any of the other purported steroid users?!". The reason Barry gets bashed is because of how high profile he has made himself - NOT ONLY due to his record chasing, but by his fan&media relations, making a TV show about himself, and his overall comments and actions. The reason some others don't get bashed as much is because they show remorse or bow out of the limielight totally (which means they don't go on TV with their own reality show). Some people hold baseball, what it's meant to our culture, and it's history and past very dear. Therefore, some people are going to be offended and lash out at something that diminishes the sport. Again, until you cross an obvious line of death threats, I'm not going to fault these kinds of fan too much - just like I'm not going to fault you for thinking the outcry is a little uncalled for. But just don't tell me I therefore lack perspective and/or need to take a look at myself.

posted by littleLebowski at 03:17 PM on January 11

When TJ Quinn was asked how many players failed the amphetamines test last year, his response was that he never got a quantitative answer, just that there were a lot. It seems this is a lot bigger problem than just Bonds. But only Bonds' name was brought up in the story. I may be a pessimist by nature, but I find it truly hard to believe that Barry Bonds was the only high-profile baseball player to fail a test last year. But whoever "leaked" this info chose not to tell us that Derek Jeter or Ryan Howard or Albert Pujols or Roger Clemens or Alex Rodriguez or Manny Ramirez also MIGHT have been on that list. Only Barry. The reason for this is simple. If any of these other athletes were named in the same leak, it would be a LOT harder to crucify Barry Bonds as the devil. That is the ONLY purpose of this latest story. It gives the mindless masses a reason to claim that Barry has failed a drug test. So later today, tomorrow, next week and into the season when we hear about his failed amphetamines test, and holier-than-thou @ssholes like Mike Lupica and Rick Reilly are piling on about this guy, the masses won't have to worry about lumping poor Albert Poo-holes or good guy David Ortiz or (god forbid) wide-eyed golden boy Joe Mauer with Satan himself. Oh, and just to add fuel to the fire, I heard a rumor that Barry Bonds traveled to Africa last year, bought an entire village of orphan children, and ripped out their intestines with his hands so he could feed himself. He then lit the survivors on fire and ordered a military strike on the entire village to cover the evidence. Barry IS the devil. Man, I hate sports writers. * * I have a degree in communications and spent the first five years of my post-college life as a professional sports writer. So I can say that with conviction.

posted by Cameron Frye at 03:24 PM on January 11

Sounds like Barry has been under Maddux's tutelage.

posted by mjkredliner at 03:28 PM on January 11

BPP: But if they don't make us feel anything, then they are nothing more than a conveyance for news. Well, okay, let me qualify that some. A good storyteller, in whatever medium, can indeed "make" the audience feel things, but it's coaxing and persuasion rather than coercion or nagging. The media can "make" us believe things only if the things they're telling us mesh with our worldview, or if their logic is compelling enough to override what we may have previously believed. In the case of the reaction of moral outrage that we're "supposed" to feel towards Barry Bonds, I think that only works on people who are somewhat predisposed to moral outrage in the first place, perhaps those who find ready villains in the rich and talented, maybe those who are not too inclined to closely examine the nuances of accusations and evidence of guilt, and definitely those whose worldview sees MLB steroid cheating as a serious problem in the world today. Personally, I'm something of a cynic: yeah, I think he did it; yeah, I think he knew what he was doing; no, I don't think he gives a tinker's dam for the integrity of the game; but he's got a long line ahead of him. Honestly, Dick Pound is higher on my outrage list than Barry Bonds.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:32 PM on January 11

You do not have to be predisposed to moral outrage, or looking for a ready villain in the rich and talented, or unable to closely examine the nuances of accusation and guilt, or see steroid use as a serious problem in the world today, to come to the conclusion that he is just a no good some beach, you can just take him and his actions at face value to do so.

posted by mjkredliner at 03:46 PM on January 11

The media can "make" us believe things only if the things they're telling us mesh with our worldview, or if their logic is compelling enough to override what we may have previously believed I don't necessarily agree with that. On 9-11 CNN reported that someone on the 31st floor surivived a fall. My "worldview" tells me that isn't possible. My "Logic" tells me that isn't possible. But damned if I didn't believe it because CNN reported it. I was telling my wife "do you believe that? Someone actually survived a fall from the 31st floor?" Of course I found out later that CNN was un-moralistically reporting something they didn't confirm in order to be the first one reporting it, which seems to be very related to our topic somehow.

posted by bdaddy at 03:53 PM on January 11

God I'm going to hate watching Bonds break Aaron's record... That makes 250 million of us! Meh, I'll enjoy it.

posted by tron7 at 04:01 PM on January 11

I heard Paris Hilton's new album totally sucks...

posted by JohnSFO at 04:03 PM on January 11

McGwire told reporters for years he was innocent, but he refused to make the same claim of innocence when called before Congress, where he'd be subjected to perjury laws if he lied. Actually, he wouldn't be subjected to any potential perjury trials as it would be almost absolutely impossible to prove that McGwire used steroids in the past without some sort of past-dated drug test or admission of guilt. Remember how Palmeiro got caught using a banned substance? Remember how people thought he'd get charged with perjury for doing the "shaking finger" thing at Congress only a couple months before? Remember how nothing ever happened? Now imagine trying to prove perjury for something that happened in the past without any proof...

posted by grum@work at 04:26 PM on January 11

Maybe we can hook Barry up with J-Kidds soon be to X wife, that would be an awsome power couple.

posted by warstda at 05:25 PM on January 11

Actually, he wouldn't be subjected to any potential perjury trials as it would be almost absolutely impossible to prove that McGwire used steroids in the past without some sort of past-dated drug test or admission of guilt. The point is not that he would be likely to be tried or not for perjury, but that when he spoke in front of congress he knew being dishonest wasn't in his best interest, however small the risk. It's one of the only explanations for his comments, and isn't explained away by the fact that Palmeiro wasn't charged after the fact.

posted by justgary at 05:56 PM on January 11

but every story that comes out seems to prove to me just how big of a dickhead he really is. Let's not forget the first one that showed what a "dickhead" he is. Back in '94 when they went on strike, he went to court to have his child support reduced. He was making 9 million at the time. And those great California courts allowed it, with a wink and a few autographed items in the judges chambers after the hearing.

posted by Tokens0605 at 06:02 PM on January 11

Now imagine trying to prove ... without any proof Why that would be like trying to drink without any drinks. Or trying to fish without any fish, or painting without any paint...

posted by SummersEve at 06:09 PM on January 11

In the case of the reaction of moral outrage that we're "supposed" to feel towards Barry Bonds, I think that only works on people who are somewhat predisposed to moral outrage in the first place puts you on the list of all-time worst teammates. posted by erkno11 at 7:47 AM CST on January 11 prove to me just how big of a dickhead he really is. To hell with him, I'm done. posted by louisville_slugger at 8:17 AM CST on January 11 Bonds has been enabled, coddled, and spoon-fed his whole life, accountability is long overdue. posted by mjkredliner at 9:15 AM CST on January 11 This guy has seemingly no bottom to his integrity. posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:05 AM CST on January 11 Major League Baseball, as a sport, as a business, is a total fucking mess. posted by chicobangs at 10:09 AM CST on January 11 Blaming a teammate for your own stupidity is about the lamest and most pathetic thing ever. posted by fenriq at 11:15 AM CST on January 11 What a sad, sorry and perfectly appropriate image for this sad, sorry human being. posted by diastematic at 11:45 AM CST on January 11 Bonds epitimizes whats wrong with baseball. posted by imanage at 11:46 AM CST on January 11 First a cheater and now a SNITCH who is lying again! posted by steelerchooks at 11:59 AM CST on January 11 These are all comments inspired by, as forestv pointed out, an article that doesn't name it's sources and received "No comment" from every single person that was asked about it, except of course for Bonds himself who doesn't appear to have been approached directly about it. Many of these comments are from highly respected members from this community, and I post them respectfully just to show that the Bonds train has come way off its tracks even for the most level headed of us. And you can't write this off simply to the protection of the integrity of the game. Nobody wants that integrity protected more than yours truly. But consider this: What Pete Rose did to baseball was 25 times worse than what Barry Bonds has done to baseball. That's not an opinion, that is a flat out fact. Bonds' actions effected the performance of one individual out of 750. Rose's actions effected the performance of an entire ballclub. Yet, when I posted a thread about Rose a few weeks ago, it didn't jump to 60 comments in 12 hours, and not one person exclaimed, "I hate Pete Rose with the seething, white-hot passion of a thousand imploding suns." I think what Bonds did was bad and is well deserving of a negative reaction. All I'm saying is that maybe a full-scale riot on this issue wouldn't have broken out if the media weren't handing out those eggs, tomatoes, torches and pitchforks. Think about it, folks. How much do you object to steroid use, and how much do you hate Bonds. Is it the same?

posted by BullpenPro at 06:29 PM on January 11

I think what is lost here once again, is who our kids are looking up to these days. From cry baby Owens, to drugstore Bonds, and countless others, who do you want your kids to look up to? It seems that todays athelete can do anything and everything, and not be responsible for any of their actions. If that doesn't scare parents, I don't know what will!

posted by robi8259 at 06:50 PM on January 11

I have often thought of the towering moral indignation surrounding steroids and wondered why all these people weren't outraged about the greenies taken by many (if not most) of the legends enshrined in Cooperstown. I saw one person in this thread say they had been a problem since the 60's. Please. Ty Cobb's anti-social behavior is a textbook example of long-term amphetamine induced paranoia. Truck and bus drivers have been doing bennies since there were trucks and buses. Of course baseball players caught on and wanted some. "You look like Hell, kid. Here, try one of these." Drug use in sports is probably a century old. That being said, I don't hate Barry Bonds because he used drugs. I hate him because he is one of the truly majestic assholes in the history of sports. Self-absorbed, rude, detested by opponents and teammates alike, Maria Callas thinks this guy is a diva. I remember the kid who played the game with such joy in Pittsburgh and wonder if this can be the same guy.

posted by gradioc at 07:03 PM on January 11

How much do you object to steroid use, and how much do you hate Bonds. Is it the same? I hate them both about the same. There are a**holes in every walk of life and every business. And yes the media jumps on Bonds much harder than a Shawn Merriman for example (who did test positive, which Bonds has not). But, Bonds has never shown an "upside" he is nothing but an egotistical, narcissistic, drug abusing, wife and girlfriend abusing, tax evading miscreant who deserves the negative publicity he brings upon himself. I really don't care if he holds every major league record in the books. What rattles my cage is that the bad guy is gonna win. I was taught that you STRIVE to be the best, but integrity and concern for those around you and a bit of humility will get you farther and will lead to rewards in life. And, sadly, with the exception of the obvious envy I have for such a loser being rich and famous, I still think I am better off than this poor example of a "success".

posted by Tokens0605 at 07:03 PM on January 11

I notice McGwire's name always coming up, here and there, whenever a Bonds story is posted. For the record, performance-enhancing drugs or not, Mark McGwire was never, ever, even one-quarter the baseball player Barry Bonds is/was. Bonds should be judged on his own merit, without any comparisons to McGwire, Palmiero, etc. If people want to banish all thoughts of him due to the player he morphed into over the past several years, that's fine. But even prior to that, Mark McGwire couldn't compare to Barry in any aspect of the game at all. Poor teammate? Probably. But how he acts in the clubhouse, or how he treats Jeff Kent (for example) couldn't matter less to me. As for the "Who is your kid going to look up to" question, there are plenty of guys they can enjoy following, just based on how they play the game. Derek Jeter's comes to mind. As for how they live their lives? You dig hard enough into anyones closet, you're going to find something. But raise a kid with some guidance and common sense and I doubt many will feel they need to emulate players' drug-enhanced examples. If they grow up with a good concept of "Right" and "Wrong," they'll be fine. If they fuck up, I seriously doubt it's due to Barry Bonds.

posted by dyams at 07:05 PM on January 11

What Pete Rose did to baseball was 25 times worse than what Barry Bonds has done to baseball. Agreed, which is why I would vote bonds into the hall of fame but not rose. I think what is lost here once again, is who our kids are looking up to these days. From cry baby Owens, to drugstore Bonds, and countless others, who do you want your kids to look up to? They're called parents.

posted by justgary at 07:06 PM on January 11

You dig hard enough into anyones closet, you're going to find something. dyams Barry bonds problems aren't in a closet they're in a hanger. No digging required.

posted by Tokens0605 at 07:11 PM on January 11

BullpenPro, you (much more eloquently than I could) covered just about every one of my objections to the previous anti-Bonds posts. I am not a Bonds fan, but I agree that if this were any other ball player, the name would have never leaked, and we would not be having this discussion. And, yes, I will cheer when and if he breaks the record. Still the hardest thing to do in professional sports. I might add to those who object to him because he is "an a**hole, stop and think how many professional athletes made the HoF being complete a**holes.

posted by hawkguy at 07:13 PM on January 11

stop and think how many professional athletes made the HoF being complete a**holes. hawkguy So, now it is a requirement?

posted by Tokens0605 at 07:16 PM on January 11

They're called parents. You mean, those people we see shirtless and with one not-so-shiny tooth on COPS?

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 07:16 PM on January 11

"Yet, when I posted a thread about Rose a few weeks ago, it didn't jump to 60 comments in 12 hours, and not one person exclaimed, 'I hate Pete Rose with the seething, white-hot passion of a thousand imploding suns.'" I was out sick that day. I'll try to work it into the next Pete Rose thread. Or maybe Mark Cuban. Kobe, possibly. Depends on what else is going on.

posted by mr_crash_davis at 07:39 PM on January 11

Bonds doesn't fit the category of a steroid or drug user. Just look at his physique. He went from skinny with a normal sized head to a beast with muscles and an enormous head. Now he is just sad, a big fat loser who can barely run. I am sure that PED's had nothing at all to do with that. I am sure the amphetimines were just to help him take off the weight that he put on by not being on the steroids anymore. He is a victim. He just wants to go back to where he started. Or his dad and Willie Mays put steroids and greenies in his oatmeal when he wasn't looking.

posted by urall cloolis at 07:45 PM on January 11

It's a shame those pills were'nt suppositories...An asshole and the shit he puts out should NEVER be that far apart!

posted by wolfdad at 07:50 PM on January 11

So, now it is a requirement? Not saying it's a requirement, but not only are the two not mutually exclusive, but they walk hand in hand a lot of the time. I was trying to make the point that there are a lot of a**holes who "were strongly suspected of using performance enhancing drugs."

posted by hawkguy at 08:05 PM on January 11

Just when we had him tried, convicted and sentenced, Barry(?) changed his story.

posted by danjel at 08:12 PM on January 11

Can it be possible? Sweeney and Bonds in SF. Sweeney and McGwire in STL. HMMMMMMMM!?

posted by jphclub at 08:21 PM on January 11

"This year we had the best chemistry on the team..." Now that line from Vizquel made me laugh.

posted by chris2sy at 09:09 PM on January 11

Back in '94 when they went on strike, he went to court to have his child support reduced. He was making 9 million at the time. Actually, he was making 0 million at the time. When they were on strike, he wasn't making any money. If some regular joe with a construction worker salary was paying child support and alimony and was suddenly put out of his job, don't you think he might seek legal recourse to make sure he isn't bled dry while receiving no income? Of course, Barry Bonds must be evil.

posted by grum@work at 09:16 PM on January 11

Just when we had him tried, convicted and sentenced, Barry(?) changed his story. Of course, since the "story" wasn't his in the first place (remember, unnamed sources!), I guess everyone who called him an "all-time worst teammate" or "snitch" might admit they were wrong. But, I seriously doubt it will happen...

posted by grum@work at 09:18 PM on January 11

When they were on strike, he wasn't making any money. And it's not like they knew how long it was going to go on. Or how much the child support was to begin with. Of course, since the "story" wasn't his in the first place Looks like somebody thought it might be a good idea to actually talk to Bonds about this. Great observations, grum.

posted by BullpenPro at 09:46 PM on January 11

A player is not identified until after failing two amphetamines tests and yet this story from unnamed sources leaks out. If I was a sports union (baseball, football, whatever) where management insisted on drug tests with the promise of confidentiality, I would put in the contract that they have to pay $1 million every time one of the names and test results "leaks" out. Either that or I would tell them where they could shove their test.

posted by graymatters at 10:03 PM on January 11

SI should apologize for putting out crap like that without substantiating it. Ok, Barry, we was wrong about ya bein' a snitch. I still think you're a skunk that has given the game a hideous reek.

posted by mjkredliner at 10:04 PM on January 11

The snitch comment is really ridiculous. BB is a lowdown scum sucking cheat maggot for taking "greenies", but the other guy who did the same thing is just "told on"? What the hell kind of logic is that? If you call the guy a snitch, that would indicate he told on someone for doing something. Why isn't the person who wrote this article a snitch?

posted by Bishop at 10:14 PM on January 11

I never called him a snitch actually, someone else further up in the thread did. But your point is taken.

posted by mjkredliner at 10:33 PM on January 11

I think what is lost here once again, is who our kids are looking up to these days. No, what's lost here once again is that too many parents whine about "role models" for their children instead of passing on common sense and good judgement to said children.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:54 AM on January 12

This is to The_Black_Hand. I agree totally. My point was that the kids today don't have many sports figures to look up to. They have become something to look down to. And as parents our work is cut out, to try and give the kids the right values and morals to make them better people.

posted by robi8259 at 05:44 AM on January 12

I have never been a Giants or Bonds fan, but even I can admit (secretly) that I did get excited (not like that....!) when he would come to the plate. The anticipation was pretty much palpable...you knew it was going to be good. Now all of that is tainted. How very sad for MLB fans in general. All our favourites, whether to hate or love, are coming under shadows and their abilities and stats questioned. MLB needs to stop the bleeding and fast. A definitive list of banned substances should be drawn up and it be made clear that from now on any player caught with a banned substance in his system faces an automatic life time ban. Period. Fresh season, fresh start and let the rest go. Bonds will have to deal with his teammates and his fans when the season starts again..........I hope they are suitable hard on him, not only for the speed but more for the lack of team spirit and the ratting out of a teammate.

posted by jadzia1970 at 06:15 AM on January 12

I find some comfort in the fact that all these guys who have used the steroids will most likely have nuts the size of BBs and tits as big as Morganna, the "Kissing Bandit".

posted by jm_mosier at 06:32 AM on January 12

Wouldn't that make them harder to pick out as trannies? Or did you mean a different type of comfort?

posted by yerfatma at 06:54 AM on January 12

The big moosie... Very comforting.

posted by SummersEve at 07:25 AM on January 12

The following is a statement made by Barry Bonds over the alleged comments that he made concerning the positive results of having used amphetamines and that he recieved them from teammate Mark Sweeney: "He is both my teammate and my friend," Bonds said in a statement Thursday. "He did not give me anything whatsoever and has nothing to do with this matter, contrary to recent reports. "I want to express my deepest apologies especially to Mark and his family as well as my other teammates, the San Francisco Giants organization and the fans" Barry Bonds did not deny that he used "greenies" but he never said that he did either. Amphetamines have been used by players "for seven or eight decades" said Baseball commissioner Bud Selig so it's not like Barry Bonds was the first person to ever use them. Many players have turned to the stimulants for a way to get pepped up when their bodies can't do so on their own during a long season but because this is Barry Bonds, it's a way bigger issue than if it was someone else.

posted by BornIcon at 07:29 AM on January 12

Wouldn't that make them harder to pick out as trannies? Still the only tranny I've seen that can hit the high fastball. Then again, I may be confusing him with Serena Williams.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:58 AM on January 12

Several good points made in this thread, but Bonds is about to break what is probably the most cherished record in sports. There's going to be some added scrutiny. So when you say "if it were any other player..." you're more than like right, but it isn't any other player. Right or wrong, all eyes are on him so he can't do what everyone else is doing anymore.

posted by SummersEve at 08:09 AM on January 12

Bonds didn't deny the fact that he used greenies, because he was actually formally caught using them. That's where this whole story started. For all the talk suggesting otherwise, and despite the rest of his faults, I suspect he's probably a relatively good teammate, as all-time-great superstar types go at least. That may be because they're the only people he doesn't see as his sworn enemies, but even on that count it looks like he's correct. His statement was unequivocal about Sweeney's innocence in this whole episode, while not denying anything that isn't already in the public record. Fair play to Bonds.

posted by chicobangs at 08:31 AM on January 12

"Bonds didn't deny the fact that he used greenies, because he was actually formally caught using them" Even though I agree with everything else you had to say Chico, this one sentence needed to be corrected. Barry Bonds didn't have to say anything concerning the positive result since they (the results) are supposed to remain anonymous and the "first amphetamines offense, however, does require six additional drug tests over the following six months" and also "under Major League Baseball's collective bargaining agreement with the Major League Baseball Players Association, clubs are not notified after a player receives a first positive test for amphetamines." So if Barry Bonds didn't come out and say anything about these leaked reports, he had that right as well. It seems to me as if he just wanted to set the record straight....so like Chico said, "Fair play to Bonds"

posted by BornIcon at 09:01 AM on January 12

It's true, he didn't say "Yes, I took amphetamines." But considering how adamant the rest of his denial about the Sweeney affair was, his not mentioning the actual infraction amounted to the same thing, especially in a prepared statement where he can consider exactly what he wants to say and how he wants to say it. Barry's a lot of things. Stupid is not one of them.

posted by chicobangs at 09:27 AM on January 12

Oh, the role model thing... robi8259: My point was that the kids today don't have many sports figures to look up to. They have become something to look down to. Insofar as that is true, though, it's still worth examining why anyone feels that it's reasonable to expect a sports figure to be a role model for kids. Certainly it's true that some sports figures have been role-model-worthy in the past...as far as we knew. But that's only one possible explanation:

  • Sports figures in the past really were more virtuous than they are today.
  • People in the past really were more virtuous than they are today.
  • Sports figures/people in the past were just as venal as people today, but we didn't know about it, because the media was less invasive/they hid it better/we didn't have all these tests for drugs/people weren't so friggin' uptight about whether a sports figure cursed or went with a hooker or took a drink on their off time.
  • Sports figures in the past were just as venal as people today, but we were a lot more realistic in our expectations of whether they're supposed to be role models for kids.
  • Sports figures in the past were different because sports were different.
...and of course, the truth is probably a combination of some of the above, plus factors I haven't thought of. But just taking a look at that last one...honestly, I really would not expect any sports figure today to be a role model that I'd want for my kids. Why? Because, to put it bluntly, no matter how polite you are in public, no matter that you may be drug-free and clean as a whistle, to succeed in elite sports nowadays you pretty much have to be a selfish bastard. You have to live a life that's so centered on your pursuit of excellence that you really don't have much time to give to other people. So, given that baseline reality, I really think anyone who expects elite sports figures nowadays to be role models for their kids is in for a disappointment.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:31 AM on January 12

Man, I've often been in the camp of "athletes should just suck it up and accept that they are role-models, and the fame and fortune afforded them comes with the price of acting out that role." But, lbb, your post is hands-down the best thing I've ever heard/seen from the other side. For what it's worth from lil ol' me - well done.

posted by littleLebowski at 09:52 AM on January 12

And those great California courts allowed it, with a wink and a few autographed items in the judges chambers after the hearing yes, I'm sure you were there to witness this week and autograph session. Nevermind that the actual court ruling was correct in this case.

posted by bdaddy at 10:08 AM on January 12

Sports figures in the past really were more virtuous than they are today. I do believe that, to a certain extent. Really, though, if the media was so all-over-the-place, on TV, radio, computers, phones, newspapers, magazines, etc., would Barry Bonds and some of these others really look all that different (maybe "look" is the wrong word to use) than players from past decades? Players used to act poorly and make poor decisions, but it wasn't broadcast all around. It's like spouse abuse. Are you going to tell me that didn't go on back in the '50s, '60s and '70s, or is it just that now it's something people can more easily talk about, hear about, read about, watch on TV, you name it. Players from back-when probably had serious issues, too, but there wasn't enough media around to be reporting on every single move they made. It was the same with presidents (ex. Kennedy), entertainers, and on down the line. The press and everyone else are just under more pressure to find stories and fill all these various sources with crap. I'd rather not hear it, myself. I'd rather enjoy the product on the field and let baseball police itself. People haven't changed all that much, but what we're constantly exposed to and bombarded with has.

posted by dyams at 10:10 AM on January 12

But, lbb, your post is hands-down the best thing I've ever heard/seen from the other side. I concur, in fact, I propose an addition to the wiki. 7. Athletes as role models. With a link to lbb's comment.

posted by MrFrisby at 10:18 AM on January 12

he was actually formally caught using them Like he was wearing a tux and tails or they held it on the steps of City Hall with the mayor?

posted by yerfatma at 11:16 AM on January 12

Barry Bonds hasn't got the balls to admit to anything he has ever done in the past or present.He's nothing but a cheat,steroid user,and from the new accusations of amphetamines,doesn't think that nothing can ever happen to him.Then to top it all off,he throws a teammate under the bus for his failed amphetamine drug test.And to think that after all this,he will soon become the All-Time Home Run King breaking Aarons record.It'll be a sad day in the history of baseball to have a man(supposedly that what he calls himself)to be voted into the Hall of Fame like himself.I'm just hoping that he somehow totally screws up and never gets that opportunity.But him being so close to do what he's going to accomplish,I somehow doubt that he could be so stupid.But then again,Bonds isn't exactly the brightest star in the sky,so I'm still praying for that one major screw-up that will put shame on himself so he never gets that call to the Hall.

posted by Ghastly1 at 12:10 PM on January 12

Thank you, Ghastly1, for that excellent demonstration of the Rip van Winkle effect.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:17 PM on January 12

Actually, he was making 0 million at the time. When they were on strike, he wasn't making any money. I'd think that was incorrect. I don't have his financials in front of me (and given the allegations of tax evasion, I don't suppose they'd do much good), but I'm guessing Barry Bonds was still earning income from investments, autograph signings and the like. To think the strike cut him off totally and completely unable to meet financial obligations to his children is a bit far-fetched.

posted by wfrazerjr at 12:18 PM on January 12

You have to understand, Ghastly; Baseball doesn't care! They only come across as caring about these issues when they are absolutely forced to do so. As long as people are filling the seats, buying the merchandise, and spending money on the game in general, baseball only has themselves to blame for any of it. A few weeks ago I got involved in a debate on this site with regards to cheating in baseball, and what cheating is allowable, which isn't, and if it's even possible to regulate. Baseball obvioulsy has a history of turning the other cheek to most of these issues. I'd at least like the Hall of Fame to come to the realization that even if major league baseball wants to allow, or try to overlook, the effect drugs (cheating?) have/has on the game, the Hall of Fame doesn't have to act in the same manner. Let these guys continue playing, and playing their games, but that doesn't mean they have to be honored after they leave the game. Records may indeed topple, but maybe the veterans committee can start being more vocal, as a group, about some of this stuff. Don't expect the suits running the game to take the lead.

posted by dyams at 12:22 PM on January 12

Thank you, Ghastly1, for that excellent demonstration of the Rip van Winkle effect. I guess we shouldn't expect you to be a role model here for us. Your comment was a little harsh, don't ya think?

posted by danjel at 02:33 PM on January 12

Harsh, yes. But not inaccurate.

posted by chicobangs at 03:00 PM on January 12

I guess we shouldn't expect you to be a role model here for us. You're right, you shouldn't. By the way, just what role was it you were thinking I should model?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:10 PM on January 12

I'm still praying for that one major screw-up that will put shame on himself so he never gets that call to the Hall Hindsight being 20/20 will we look back and learn from this thread? 108 posts about BB throwing a teammate under a bus. Which he (according to his statement he released) never did. Ghastly, people like you are going to have to live with the fact that BB will be the all time home run leader. Comments like yours come from the same sporting public that wish failure on 1 athlete for cheating, and vote another (Shawn Merriman) to the Pro-Bowl, for being guilty of the same exact thing(gaining an advantage in an dishonest way). Bret Farve is about to break some all time passing records after admitting to being addicted to pain killers. Is it possible that he has gained an advantage by using these pain killers? Do you think they have helped him play so many games? It's highly possible. If he never took the pain killers, would have been able to withstand all the punishment he has taken? If it wasn't for the advantage he got from using drugs, would he be in position to break these records? It's also possible that the packers haven't been good since he stopped taking the pain killers. Career Passing Yards 1) Dan Marino 61,361 2) Brett Favre 57,500 3) John Elway 51,475 4) Warren Moon 49,325 5) Fran Tarkenton 47,003 Career Passing Attempts 1) Dan Marino 8,358 2) Brett Favre 8,223 3) John Elway 7,250 4) Warren Moon 6,823 5) Fran Tarkenton 6,467 Career Completions 1) Brett Favre 5,021 2) Dan Marino 4,967 3) John Elway 4,123 4) Warren Moon 3,988 5) Fran Tarkenton 3,686 Below is taken from an article in the Sporting News from May 27,1996. (edited) "It's kind of a difficult time because throughout the years I've played with pain and injuries and, uh, suffered numerous surgeries ... and possibly became dependent upon medication." These comments left the impression that Favre had become addicted to painkillers. This was true, yet it probably did not represent the entire truth. The truth, his father Irvin says, was that Brett had developed an addiction to the drug Vicodin, a narcotic analgesic. But the truth also included the notion, the elder Favre acknowledges, that a problem with alcohol abuse could exist. What, after all, is the first phrase that comes to mind when somebody mentions Brett Favre? "He's a gamer." Right. How many times have you seen it? Favre is questionable, doubtful, totally iffy, completely banged up. His hip is hurt. His side is hurt. His ankle is hurt. No problem. He plays anyway. He plays amazingly well. He starts 61 consecutive regular-season games, the longest current streak among NFL quarterbacks. In the course of doing so, he earns one of football's highest accolades: "He plays with pain." Now you understood more fully how that streak occurred. The most notable instance of Favre's playing hurt was November 12 against the Bears. He had suffered a severe sprain in his left ankle the previous Sunday in a loss to the Vikings. His backup, Ty Detmer, had been lost for the season later in the same game. The third quarterback, T.J. Rubley, had proved completely unreliable. First place in the division was at stake. A Bears-Packers game is an upper Midwestern mini-Super Bowl. It was Favre or defeat. Favre was listed as questionable, but his left ankle was hideously swollen and discolored. It looked useless for even limping. On one leg, Favre completed 25 of 33 pass attempts for 336 yards and five touchdowns, with no interceptions, as the Packers won, 35-28. If you didn't know before that day, you knew then that this was a man who carried with him an indomitable will. You didn't know then that will was receiving a regular pharmaceutical assist. But maybe this was nothing more than the quarterback carrying out the extreme demands of his profession. In the days after Favre's announcement, however, information trickled out, indicating that not only his vocation, but his lifestyle, had contributed to substance-abuse problems. Does this make him a cheater? Does it make him a scumbag? He is approaching records (besides the ones he has already broken). Where is the moral outrage? Where is his * next to his Superbowl win? This point isn't about race, so some of you (you know who you are), please don't turn it into that just because I'm the one pointing this out. The point is, virtually every pro athlete, whether it be the bad teammate, worthless asshole Bonds, or the great warrior, Mr. all American, greatest teammate ever Farve, attempts to gain whatever advantage he can. Legal or otherwise. It's part of sports and it's time people just learn to accept it.

posted by Bishop at 03:20 PM on January 12

By the way, just what role was it you were thinking I should model? From the new members page: We trust the members of the community to treat others with the respect you would afford yourself. Can't a guy give his opinion without snide comments?

posted by danjel at 03:25 PM on January 12

So...lbb is the bad role model and not BB? This is so confusing.

posted by forrestv at 03:35 PM on January 12

I prefer the parmesan oregano rolls myself.

posted by MrFrisby at 03:42 PM on January 12

Why, yes, forrestv, I am the bad role model. And I'm Spartacus, too.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:36 PM on January 12

I'm Spartacus.

posted by SummersEve at 04:40 PM on January 12

but he w/out roids is better than EVERYbody that most of you will ever meet. George Brett?

posted by tselson at 04:53 PM on January 12

If some regular joe with a construction worker salary was paying child support and alimony and was suddenly put out of his job, don't you think he might seek legal recourse to make sure he isn't bled dry while receiving no income? First, he IS making an income unless all his money is in a mattress. Second it is called responsibility as a father (I won't say parent) to ensure the well being of the child. Third, he is no "AVERAGE JOE" nor was he earning a construction worker salary prior to the strike, or during the strike with his endorsements and PR engagements. Lastly, barry bonds would have only been "bled dry" if he went to the Mike Tyson school of investment. He is an irresponsible self centered loser.

posted by Tokens0605 at 05:37 PM on January 12

to lil_brown bat I would copy and italicize your comments, but hey they were all good, and why make everyone re-read the whole thing. But a really great thread.

posted by Tokens0605 at 05:50 PM on January 12

Nevermind that the actual court ruling was correct in this case. I'm sure it was, OJ.

posted by Tokens0605 at 05:53 PM on January 12

I'd think that was incorrect. I don't have his financials in front of me (and given the allegations of tax evasion, I don't suppose they'd do much good), but I'm guessing Barry Bonds was still earning income from investments, autograph signings and the like. To think the strike cut him off totally and completely unable to meet financial obligations to his children is a bit far-fetched. Third, he is no "AVERAGE JOE" nor was he earning a construction worker salary prior to the strike, or during the strike with his endorsements and PR engagements. Well, if you honestly believe that he makes $9,000,000 a year in autograph signings, then maybe he was petitioning to have it cut in half. Otherwise, I'm betting his income shrunk FAR below a level Considering the hate-on that the media (and the fans outside of SF) seem to have for Barry Bonds, I doubt he was rolling in dough from product endorsements while the league was on strike. Second it is called responsibility as a father (I won't say parent) to ensure the well being of the child. Well, if he was paying a share of child support in proportion to his salary at the time, I'm betting that his child wasn't suffering at the time. Unless, of course, the mother of that child was spending the money unwisely, in which case I really don't think that's Mr. Bonds' fault. But I understand your position: Barry Bonds doesn't deserve the same legal coverage that other people get, so because he's rich, those laws shouldn't apply to him. Sports figures/people in the past were just as venal as people today, but we didn't know about it, because the media was less invasive/they hid it better/we didn't have all these tests for drugs/people weren't so friggin' uptight about whether a sports figure cursed or went with a hooker or took a drink on their off time. This is the answer for 90% of the cases. Mickey Mantle's drinking and extra-marital affairs, Joe DiMaggio striking Marilyn Monroe (according to his biographer)...imagine how the media would have handled it nowadays.

posted by grum@work at 09:02 PM on January 12

Bishop, While I understand the point you're trying to make, you can't seriously be comparing Brett Favre to Barry Bonds. Point of fact: Favre acknowledged and got treatment for his alcohol and painkiller addictions and, this was by the way, was early in his career (1996). There has been NO EVIDENCE since that time to suggest that Favre has ever taken any performance enhancing drugs or, reverted back to the use Vicodin or any other prescription type painkillers. Like the rest of us, despite his enormous skills, there has been a drop-off in Brett's performance as he's gotten older. Barry Bonds however, illogically became almost super-human at the tender young age of 39. Brett Favre blamed HIS OWN lifestyle, not his teammates or anyone else. Barry Bonds would have us believe that if he's caught in something, it's somebody else’s (or everybody else’s) fault and not his own. I guess Mr. Bonds would like the fans and public in general to swallow his lame excuses the way he apparently indiscriminately swallows pills!

posted by R_A_Mason at 09:57 AM on January 13

There has been NO EVIDENCE since that time to suggest that Favre has ever taken any performance enhancing drugs or, reverted back to the use Vicodin or any other prescription type painkillers I'm pretty sure taking the painkillers and allowing him to play in games while injured would be considered a "performance enhancer". Without painkillers = 0 yards passing (doesn't play) With painkillers = 200 yards passing (does play) Barry Bonds would have us believe that if he's caught in something, it's somebody else’s (or everybody else’s) fault and not his own. I'm guessing you didn't read the link that danjel posted.

posted by grum@work at 01:10 PM on January 13

Well, if you honestly believe that he makes $9,000,000 a year in autograph signings, then maybe he was petitioning to have it cut in half. Otherwise, I'm betting his income shrunk FAR below a level I don't know where the rest of your comment went, Grum., but I think I get the drift. I'm not saying he was earning $9M during the strike season. Let's say he earned 20%, or $1.8M, from endorsements, appearances and investments. I'm betting it's more than that, but it's a fair figure. How much do you think he pays in support a month? Do you think it's so much he couldn't dole out half of his reduced monthly income -- $75K -- and cover it, while still living comfortably. And if he couldn't ... whose fault is that?

posted by wfrazerjr at 02:43 PM on January 13

From the new members page: We trust the members of the community to treat others with the respect you would afford yourself. Danjel, I'm pretty sure new members are held to that standard, while old members have more leeway. Make of that what you will.

posted by wfrazerjr at 02:45 PM on January 13

How much do you think he pays in support a month? Do you think it's so much he couldn't dole out half of his reduced monthly income -- $75K -- and cover it, while still living comfortably. And if he couldn't ... whose fault is that? This article indicates that the family support payments were $15k/month, and were reduced to $7.5k/month during the strike. Yes, that seems like a small amount to squabble about and he looks like a bit of a dickhead, considering he had received over $3million of his 1994 salary at the time of the strike. However, he should still have the right to seek legal recourse just like any other person. I just took offense to the idea that Bonds was evil because he used the legal system the way other people do.

posted by grum@work at 03:15 PM on January 13

However, he should still have the right to seek legal recourse just like any other person. I just took offense to the idea that Bonds was evil because he used the legal system the way other people do. I don't think Bonds's attempt to get his payments lowered automatically makes him a dickhead. I also agree that people have a right to use the legal system. However, I also think the fact a man who must be worth about a bazillion dollars is trying to cut his payments to his freaking kids because he has $3M instead of $9M cements his status, though.

posted by wfrazerjr at 04:31 PM on January 13

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