Tigers' Verlander, Marlins' Ramirez are top rookies.: No surprise in either case really.
posted by commander cody to baseball at 01:03 AM - 17 comments
Rah! Rah! Go Verlander and Tige......oppps.....sorry. (ahem) I mean go someone...some non-specified team member...of some non-specified team....of some non-specified sport....that won't offend anyone who is a fan of any other...um...non-specified team....so as not to be a cheerleader....or anything. Congratulations to both gentlemen. ;-)
posted by commander cody at 01:07 AM on November 14
Ramirez must be looking pretty good to the Bosox right about now, he and Uggla are a solid middle for the Marlins to build around, and they have some good young arms too. Great season for Verlander as well.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:21 AM on November 14
Wow, I sure am glad the Sox traded Ramirez away...that Josh Beckett, he more than makes up for it! /sarcasm, mixed with crippling sadness
posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:27 AM on November 14
Ramirez had 51 steals and 17 HRs. He's absolutely solid as far as an IF. The thing is... the Red Sox would never have let him steal that many bases. The team just doesn't run at all. If he was in BOS and had even half as many steals, I'd be damn surprised. Until about August, I really thought Papelbon had it locked up for the AL.
posted by jerseygirl at 08:20 AM on November 14
I could have sworn Zimmerman from the National's would have taken the NL ROY. He had a hell of a year. Ramirez will be fun to watch for plenty of years to come. As for Verlander, I hope we get at least 3 or 4 more years like this. I can't see his arm handling much more after that.
posted by sublime4390116 at 08:30 AM on November 14
Boston's just not big enough for two guys named Ramirez. Seriously, both ROYs are good choices and the Marlins made themselves a great deal getting the guy. He could be a mainstay in their infield for some time (if ownership ever decides to play it that way). Florida also seems to have found young arms to adequately replace Beckett. I agree with sublime, though, when he's concerned for Verlander long-term. It just doesn't seem starters coming up these days are built for long, healthy careers. The days of Clemens, Seaver, Ryan, Carlton, etc. coming around seem to be a thing of the past.
posted by dyams at 09:29 AM on November 14
I think it's interesting to think that the NL's best rookies are all position guys, and the AL's were all pitchers. I'd rather have the AL crop. What's also interesting is that the 2nd and 3rd guys on the AL list are probably the two best rookies, period- but were slowed by injuries. Until about August, I really thought Papelbon had it locked up for the AL. Funny, I thought the same thing - but only until about half-way through July. By then, Liriano wasn't just the best pitching rookie in the AL - he was the best starter in either league. Now he's done until 2008. Huge blow to the Twins. Irreplaceable. I though Zimmerman was going to win it in the NL- but any of those guys is a good choice. Ramirez was a stat monster. Florida is stacked. C'mon fire sale... Jays need some help. Hey - Boston seems to have gotten to Matazuka (or something like that). They'll break the bank to ensure he's in a Sox uniform come March. That should please y'all Sons of Sam Horn. He's not a Yankee, at least (this alone should guarantee that Zito will be).
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:06 AM on November 14
I foresee a healthy new Matsuzaka thread once the press conference happens tonight and the gag order is removed. Until then I am going to reserve my comments on that... You have to hand it to the Marlins. Although they consistently unload every good player they have, they always get value back and end up harvesting the rewards. The team's been ridiculously competitive over its short history, given its paltry payroll and inability to re-sign their stars. It's still hard for me to believe that the penny-pinching Marlins have won two World Series titles. Obviously they must have some excellent talent evaluators working overtime down there. Whenever they decide to deal Dontrelle Willis, no doubt they'll end up with a couple of future All-Stars in the swap.
posted by Venicemenace at 10:33 AM on November 14
I think Ramirez was the right choice in the NL, but was surprised Zimmerman didn't get it. He just had big numbers (for a rookie) in the areas (20 HR/116 RBI) that voters seem to care about. Liriano had an amazing year by any measure, even with the time missed and starting in the bullpen. I think you could actually make a plausible argument for him to be ROY in the AL. I think opting for surgery out at this point, though, actually may be a good thing for Liriano and the Twins. If he, like many other recent Tommy John patients, comes back with an even stronger elbow (more durable, not necessarily leading to faster pitches), he can still be a very dominating pitcher for a number of years for the Twins. Had he decided to not elect for surgery (as was discussed at some point -- simply resting and rehabbing the ligament strain), there would always be uncertainty and trips to the DL and the potential for this surgery in the future. At least the Twins know what they have going forward.
posted by holden at 11:41 AM on November 14
You've got to be happy for ramirez. I'm sure he felt pretty unwanted after leaving boston, and I'm happy he's been a success. That said, it'll be interesting to see what beckett does this season after a year to adjust. If he pitches up to his talent, I'll still like the trade.
posted by justgary at 02:29 PM on November 14
I think you could actually make a plausible argument for him to be ROY in the AL. Possibly, but both Paplebon and Verlander had a bigger impact on their team. Had Liriano pitched the whole season, I think he would have won. However, pitching for a chunk of a season on a team that failed to make the playoffs basically removes him from contention, especially when Verlander was one of the best pitchers on the ALCS winner.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:33 PM on November 14
However, pitching for a chunk of a season on a team that failed to make the playoffs basically removes him from contention I agree with the picks, but rookie of the year is simply the best season by a rookie. It doesn't matter if he was on a first or last place team (I mean, you can add it, but it's not part of the award). It isn't the mvp. And I'm pretty sure the voting is done before the playoffs. At any rate, the playoffs shouldn't be considered as that gives an unfair advantage to some players for simply being lucky enough to be on a playoff team. So Jeter could hit 5 ws home runs, and Verlander could win all 4 games, and it shouldn't make a difference. The ws and playoffs have their own awards for excellence.
posted by justgary at 02:58 PM on November 14
Verlander, Weaver and Liriano were all excellent choices. Verlander stumbled at the end of the season, Liriano got injured, and Weaver probably need 3 or 4 more starts. If everyone had finished the season healthy, I think Liriano wins it walking away. Johjima, Markakis and Papelbon also had great seasons. In any other season, Johjima or Markakis have a legitimate shot at the ROY award. Papelbon only pitched 68 innings. It's really hard to give the award to someone who contributes so little to the team success. It would be like giving the ROY award to a really good pinch-hitter. I thought Zimmerman was going to get the NL ROY, based on his excellent hitting and amazing defence. Ramirez certainly raked the ball (for his position), but according to some experts and some statistical analysis, he's the worst fielding SS in the NL. And I'm pretty sure the voting is done before the playoffs. All the voting for the major awards (ROY, Manager, MVP, Cy Young) is done before the playoffs.
posted by grum@work at 04:49 PM on November 14
And I'm pretty sure the voting is done before the playoffs. If it wasn't I think I'd reconsider voting for Verlander. He was horrid in the playoffs, and he didn't come close to getting the job done.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:59 PM on November 14
You think a closer contributes very little to the team success, grum?
posted by jerseygirl at 05:39 PM on November 14
Papelbon only pitched 68 innings. It's really hard to give the award to someone who contributes so little to the team success. It would be like giving the ROY award to a really good pinch-hitter. But those were 68 highly leveraged innings. Even with missing the end of the season due to injury, Papelbon put up a higher WARP (wins above replacement player -- a Baseball Prospectus stat-head measure of value) than Verlander, Liriano or Weaver. Of course, that's just one measure of value -- all three of the others had a higher VORP (value over replacement player -- another BP measure of value) than Papelbon. Regardless of how you assign value, a sub-1.00 ERA and almost 10 K/9 in those highly leveraged innings is pretty impressive. In most years, that probably would have been enough, even in so few innings. However, I think Verlander and Liriano should have finished ahead of Papelbon this year.
posted by holden at 08:38 PM on November 14
I'm sure he felt pretty unwanted after leaving boston Being traded for a recent World Series MVP makes you feel unwanted? You'd think it would enlighten him as to his value as a prospect.
posted by Venicemenace at 06:47 AM on November 15
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