FanDuel - WFBC

October 08, 2006

Hit-happy Mets pepper Dodgers into submission: and Tiger pitching downs Yankees (Manager Joe Torre rumored not to survive collapse.)

posted by justgary to baseball at 02:52 AM - 73 comments

YES!!!

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:09 AM on October 08

I predict a Mets-Detroit series

posted by Senior33 at 08:38 AM on October 08

No yankees once again. Can't really have a reaction anymore. It seems to be the norm for them now. Because of my age they have never really been the "Evil Empire" Since I was born the Yankees have won the world series 5 times. They have finished with a losing record 3 times. 5 series titles is a lot but with how much people hate them I would expect a lot more. I am not a Yankees fan though. I am a Cubs fan and I would love for us to have just one of those titles. But it isn't happening anytime soon. Go Athletics!

posted by kidrayter2005 at 09:19 AM on October 08

I swore off being a Dodgers fan when Murdock and company bought the team. When Newcorp sold the team I quietly watched from the edge of the virtual field at the team I loved as a child. But I am still angry with baseball in general, so I fight watching. That being said, I was a bit confused when the Dodgers traded LoDuca. Looks like he and other former Dodgers like Shawn Green are doing well in New York. Bully for them. Congrats to the Mets. I, like many others, didn't think they could do it without their star pitchers, but they look good. Apologies to all my friends here who love the Yankees, but I am always happy when fresh blood wins. Being originally from Pittsburgh, I guess I am hoping Jim Leyland brings the championship to Detroit. ummm, sorry to babble. Still working on my first cup of coffee along with some yummy apple-rhubard pie with vanilla ice cream.

posted by scully at 09:24 AM on October 08

Ijust the read the article on "Tigers pitching downs Yankees" Johnny Damon was quoted as saying "I still think we are the better team" Well Johnny, maybe in your mind you are the better team,but what i don't think that he realizes is this team is not as good as he thinks. Any team can be beaten on any given day in baseball,or in any other sport, as a matter of fact. What it comes down to is the Tigers are the better team today. They beat the mighty Yankees at their own game: Pitching. Detroit out pitched them, and I think outplayed them in every aspect of the game. The Yankees pitching is OLD,and I don't think the Yankees are going to go anywhere unless they fix their pitching staff Randy Johnson 1st must go. And while I'm on the defense side of the game, When your options are either Giambi or Sheffield to play 1st base,then you know you have age problems. I feel for all the Yankee fans out there who share their thoughts on Sports Filter. I REALLY DO Being a Red Sox fan, I know how you feel .....Believe me!!!

posted by Ghastly1 at 09:51 AM on October 08

Hoo boy. Somebody's got some 'splainin' to do. I feel for all the Yankee fans out there who share their thoughts on Sports Filter. I REALLY DO This from the hater who crowed repeatedly about how he loves the look on Jeter's face (whatever "look" that is; I doubt you could describe it or even know what it is) when the Yankees lose? Sure you do.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:16 AM on October 08

Who's sad to see the Yankees go? How could anyone not an actual Yankee fan feel the least bit sorry for Yankee fans? And how could Yankee fans not expect/anticipate that reaction? Hey, if $200 million buys you Jaret Wright on elimination day...

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:23 AM on October 08

LBB: Would you like being called a Yankee homer -- a person whose love of the team overrides the critical portion of your brain? If the answer is no, stop throwing around the term "hater" so often, like you have a window into somebody else's soul.

posted by rcade at 10:30 AM on October 08

How could anyone not an actual Yankee fan feel the least bit sorry for Yankee fans? Well, I don't feel sorry for the Yankee fans yet, but if they blow this team up and deal away ARod in some misguided belief that he's the root of all evil on the Yankees, then I'll feel sorry for the knowledgeable ones that have to watch such a shortsighted event occur.

posted by grum@work at 10:49 AM on October 08

As a avid Indians fan I have but one thought on this......Good nite Yanks and send Joe Torre to Cleveland.!

posted by brownindian at 11:23 AM on October 08

Well, I don't feel sorry for the Yankee fans yet, but if they blow this team up and deal away ARod in some misguided belief that he's the root of all evil on the Yankees, then I'll feel sorry for the knowledgeable ones that have to watch such a shortsighted event occur. Agreed - they need more pitchiing depth, but they don't build 'em better than this. This is a frightening and amazing team. I like watching them, I really do - it's surgical at times and they can be equally straight devestating. But if A Rod, in any way, can be dealt for starting pitching, that's the deal I do. The NY-A Rod relationship has been virtually killed - fairly or not. It seems mericful at this point (and they'll eat a huge piece of the deal - if it happens, which it as probably may not). Also, Sheffield can probably go. Also, I don't think I'd fire Joe Torre is he was paying me cash to do it while punching me in the face.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:37 AM on October 08

Well, I don't feel sorry for the Yankee fans yet, but if they blow this team up and deal away ARod in some misguided belief that he's the root of all evil on the Yankees I think the Tigers would gladly take A-Rod, if I managed a team I know I'd want to pick him up.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:16 PM on October 08

As a Rangers fan, I wouldn't want A-Rod back. He takes away too much of your payroll flexibility for what he gives, and he's playoff poison.

posted by rcade at 12:18 PM on October 08

If George's ax falls on Torre's neck, I hope Joe goes fishin' with the grandkids, he has nothing left to prove, and he will leave the team better than how he found it.

posted by mjkredliner at 01:04 PM on October 08

and he's playoff poison. He's been playoff poison for the Yankees. Personally, I think that is more to blame on the enviornment than on A-Rod himself.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:37 PM on October 08

You know the reason I said that I feel sorry for Yankees fans out there is because I know a few Yankees fans personally that are friends of mine. So I guess there are a few people that write in this space can't take just having a little good fun ripping on a team that someone else likes. Any how, by what I've been seeing on the sports ticker is that Joe Torre is expected to be fired at some point today. Good manager about to get fired because Georges multi-million boys of summer couldn't the job done. Again Yea,I have said in the past that I love the looks of Jeter, A-Rod,and afew others on their faces after a loss,because I think they're cocky. But I'd take them on my team any day of the week

posted by Ghastly1 at 02:11 PM on October 08

If George's ax falls on Torre's neck, I hope Joe goes fishin' with the grandkids, he has nothing left to prove, and he will leave the team better than how he found it. I feel the same way, and I think that's exactly what he'd do. Torre's a class act all around, and being away from the circus he's had to deal with for 11 years would have to be a weight off him. I've never really felt, though, that Torre has ever been the greatest manager from a game-strategy standpoint. He's been given some great talent, obviously, but sometimes tends to forget about his team doing some of the little things that help win tough games. His refusal to move runners over, like in the second playoff game against Detroit, with men on first and second and no outs, is classic Torre. That's just one example (one that happens quite frequently). That being said, Steinbrenner has always loved Pinella and wanted a chance to bring him back in. I think he wants to try bringing some fire back into the team. They definitely looked flat the last three games, so I can't blame him.

posted by dyams at 02:17 PM on October 08

Do you really think that Pinella is the answer? I got to admit that Torre looked like a piece of wood sitting in that dugout. Pinella has definetly got some fire in him, as he has shown in the past. Maybe thats what these Yankees need is someone who isn't afraid to ruffle a few feathers in the club house,and get the most out of some of these over paid players.

posted by Ghastly1 at 03:04 PM on October 08

Exhibit Next in the case proving that $10 million well spent on a pitching staff will beat $200 million worth of offense, no matter how well that $200 mil is spent. As a lifelong baseball-fan-then-Yankee-fan, I am usually able to cobble some degree of grace in defeat and appreciation for the achievement on the other end. But this one hurts wicked bad. Like '95 bad. Maybe worse. This one brings the same potentially painful winds of change. I'd like to see them ditch the Unit, Sheffield, A-Rod, Giambi, Pavano, and Farnsworth. But I can easily see my worst case scenario developing in which all those players stay and they dump Posada, Bernie, Mussina, and Melky. And Torre. Ugh. I have a pretty firm idea in my head of what the Yankees are actually going to do (something in between these two scenarios). I'll spare you that, but suffice'ta say it just ain't gonna be fun. Congrats to the Tigers. I am happy for Leyland and for those players and fans who have handled themselves with class. I hope the A's give you a better fight than this sorry gang did, and I wish you good luck. As for the Mets, what can I say except that I have been proven horribly dead wrong in my analysis of every single team and player in this post-season (except for A-Rod -- how many more bad post-seasons does this guy have to have before his apologists concede that he's a horrible fit for the Yankees?). The Twins-Dodgers tandem that I seriously predicted would be in the World Series finished 0-6 in the post-season. Not a single GAME. I underestimated the Mets big-time, and my hat is off to them. (I'm glad I'm not a gambling man, because I would have lost a ton of moolah betting on a Maddux-Trachsel matchup.)

posted by BullpenPro at 03:29 PM on October 08

I hate the mets.

posted by jakeamo15 at 03:44 PM on October 08

If I were Steinbrenner... Part of the problem with reshuffling the team again and again is that they are unable to play as a cohesive unit. The Yankees are not a bad team by any standard. They are, however, something of a demoralized team. How can you be the best team in baseball and still come across as so glum? Watching them play the Tigers, it was obvious that the Tigers were going to win the series. The Tigers played like they wanted it badly, while the Yankees played like they were trying to avoid injury - except for Jetter who continues to play with his whole heart and soul. They are one of the best teams in baseball and they seem to be regarded, even in their own city, as losers. What the hell does that do to your psyche? No wonder A-Rod cracks in October. I am no big fan of the Yankees, but they can easily win the WS next year without making any drastic changes. Firing Torre, who has ever been a model of professionalism, class and calm, would be a boneheaded move on Steinbrenner's part. In my opinion, of course.

posted by Joey Michaels at 03:48 PM on October 08

I HATE THE METS!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE NOTHING BUT A BOUGHT TEAM!! Thus proving the validity of your last statement in this comment, I suppose....

posted by mjkredliner at 04:16 PM on October 08

You've been holding that one for a while, MJK. Nice work.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 06:13 PM on October 08

Seems like I have have had two stories (and only two) to be subject to on ESPN: TO's return to Philly, and now A Rods' 1-14 stretch during the series with Detroit, and that he will get the boot by the Boss durning the winter. I wish ESPN could just report the news. I don't want to hear your opinions ... just facts. Alex will remain a Yankee and post incredible numbers. TO's return was a very predictable non-event ... yet this is all I have heard when I cycled through ESPN through ESPN 8, the Ocho, for the past three days. Give me some scores, you idiots, then shut up.

posted by smithnyiu at 07:03 PM on October 08

I'm working while watching tonight, so I'll be in the SpoFi Campfire for this game.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 08:03 PM on October 08

Forget about the Yankees. Their time has come & gone, so stop looking at the past. The present IS the New York Mets. I have been a Mets fan for as long as I can remember and being the "other" New York team really adds salt to the wounds. Now that the mighty Yankees have fallen, it's time that the new generation carries the torch. Just because the Yankees payroll is about the same as A-Rod's contract does not gaurantee a World Series ring. I personally am a fan of A-Rod and hate that he's percieved to be the main reason why the Yankees failed again. From my estimation, A-Rod has never been treated with the respect that he deserved as soon as he put on those pinstripes. He was asked to switch positions, put out into #6 in the batting order and then 8th. I'm sorry but that's no way to treat a guy that one day may very well be the future Home Run king as well as a Hall of Famer. But the moment that the Yankees failed, he's made to be the scapegoat. Does he pitch, catch or even manage the club? No. He was one of the greatest shortstops to ever play the position but is now a second-rate 3rd baseman just so he can play with the Yankees. I know that Jeter is the SS with the Yankees but com'on! This is A-Rod we're talking about. Anywhere else this guy goes, other SS would gladly switch positions to have this guy play that position. I'm not saying that Jeter should've switched positions, but people do not see the sacrafice this guy has done in order to play in New York, they just see his contract. Check it, the only reason Cal Ripken switch to 3rd late in his career was because he no longer had the speed or skill to continue playing SS. A-Rod is in no way past his prime and I can honestly say, I don't even think he's hit his prime as of yet. His post-season numbers may not scream as loud as his regular season stats, but he's not alone in that ballclub. Up and down that lineup, you have current or former All-Stars, but there's only one name that people say when they failed, A-Rod. So for all you Yankees fans out there, I feel for you, I really do.....ok, not really. I am enjoying the fact the the Mets came out the playoff gate as hot as the moment the season started even without our two starters, Pedro & El Duque. This is our year and our time and we sure as hell are proud of our team. Unlike our cross-town rivals, when we lose, we lose as a team but when we win, like when we win the World Series, we'll win it as a team.

posted by BornIcon at 08:33 AM on October 09

As long as you're not biased by the fact you like the team.

posted by yerfatma at 08:48 AM on October 09

That gave me a headache on so many different levels.

posted by jerseygirl at 08:53 AM on October 09

Wow. Paragraphs are your friends, Bornicon. Torre has no gift for tactics, but the Yankees never really needed him to have it. For a long time, Torre relied on Zimmer for tactical advice, but more often then not, ignored it. Type-A, tactical managers (like Billy Martin and Buck Showalter) don't last long in New York. Managing the Yankees is about providing a cushion from the boss, soothing egos, and generally maintaining a positive and productive environment. Over-managing (which is what Showalter did) tends to put you on the fast track to getting a pink slip, particularly when you lose. Also, today's multi-millionaire coddled ballplayer doesn't cotton to well to hardnosed managers, and they tend to voice their displeasure in the willing press all too often, which causes clubhouse dissension. Torre's genius was more in the clubhouse than on the field. For more than a decade, Torre has held together several very, very talented groups of highly paid young men, while consistently delivering results in the win column and making it to the post season. Yeah, it probably is time for him to move on, but for the past ten years, I fail to think of one other person who could have done half as well in NY as Joe.

posted by psmealey at 10:05 AM on October 09

Listen, Joe Torre is not the blame for the Yankees fall from grace. He did everything he could have done to try to make this version of the Yankees succeed, it just hasn't worked out the way everyone thought it would. Having the top payroll in the entire league does not equate success. They had a good 12 years with Joe at the helm, and your right psmealey, I don't think anyone else could have done what Joe Torre has done, but it's just time to move on to different direction. PS. Being a Mets fan since birth and being only 9 when they won it all in 86', I can vent all I want this year. Unlike Yankees fan, I can actually appreciate having a great season- Win or Lose

posted by BornIcon at 10:38 AM on October 09

Having the top payroll in the entire league does not equate success. I just want to note this down as the most astute and perceptive piece of original insight that SportsFilter has ever, ever seen. Congratulations and thank you, BornIcon -- no one ever said that before, but now that you have, I feel an epiphany coming on. I'm a changed bat. PS. Being a Mets fan since birth and being only 9 when they won it all in 86', I can vent all I want this year. You can gas all you want any year no matter whose logo is on your replica jersey. But -- suggestion only -- you might not want to get into a competition over whose team left them crying in the postseason more times; you won't win that one by a long shot.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:48 AM on October 09

Having the top payroll in the entire league does not equate success. I just want to note this down as the most astute and perceptive piece of original insight that SportsFilter has ever, ever seen. Congratulations and thank you, BornIcon -- no one ever said that before, but now that you have, I feel an epiphany coming on. I'm a changed bat. Seems a bit harsh.

posted by tron7 at 11:17 AM on October 09

Actually , the Braves and Yankees probably HAVE left their fans crying more often than any other teams during the playoffs. I guess the flipside is failing to appreciate how many times they got there.

posted by louisville_slugger at 11:47 AM on October 09

You think it was the most perceptive piece of original insight the Internet has ever, ever seen?

posted by yerfatma at 11:47 AM on October 09

You think it was the most perceptive piece of original insight the Internet has ever, ever seen? I wouldn't go that far.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:52 AM on October 09

His refusal to move runners over, like in the second playoff game against Detroit, with men on first and second and no outs, is classic Torre. Well, when your lineup is built like the Yankees, it doesn't make sense to waste outs on a sacrifice bunt. I assume you are talking about the 2nd inning of this game, where Cano came up to bat with Matsui and Posada on base. To have Cano bunt in this situation is ridiculous. He finished 3rd in the league in batting. He's almost as good as you can get in 2006 for getting a hit. Why would you want to take the bat away from him and force Damon (the next batter) to get a hit or a deep fly? They'd already tried the stupid sacrifice play the inning before when the #2 hitter in the league (Jeter) popped up a bunt with no outs and Damon on 1st. With the lineup the Yankees had, there should be only one time to bunt: 9th inning, tie game or down by 1 run, no outs and a runner on 2nd only. That's it. Every other time is pretty much going to be a waste of an amazing batting order.

posted by grum@work at 12:26 PM on October 09

waste of an amazing batting order. Describe the 2006 Yankees in six words or less. Unlike Yankees fan, I can actually appreciate having a great season God, I envy you. We Yankee fans will just never be good fans like you. Shoot, we don't even really like baseball, to be honest with you. We're just in it for the parades. Who doesn't love a good parade. Ah, but if you lose, there's no parade. And then the whole season is just a waste. No, no. I don't want your sympathy, or even marginal consideration in the wake of defeat. In fact, it is our birthright to be taunted, kicked and spat upon every time the team we root for loses. I mean, if we didn't like having that knife twisted in us ad nauseum with every shocking, disheartening defeat we'd just pick a different team, right? Yeah. We love that almost as much as we love a good parade. Hurt me, you truer, more deserving fans. Ah. Truth is you can't hurt us more than getting totally shut down by Kenny Freakin' Rogers hurt. We are now sentenced to six months of baseball fibromyalgia with that lingering memory. If you're going to spend sympathy this October, and the homeless aren't really in season (winter), try the Blue Jays fans. As a Yankee fan of the '80s, I know what it is to watch your former players spread all over the post-season. Seriously, the Jays fans were all I could think about last night when I watched Carpenter and Woody Williams matched up. Imagine what a rotation of those two guys with Halliday would do in a short series. Would have saved them from five years of the A.J. Burnett Show. Throw in Delgado, Shawn Green, Josh Barfield (you have to take him because, you know, he's a legacy)... am I missing anybody? It's as bad if not worse than watching Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte pitch the Astros into the World Series, I would imagine.

posted by BullpenPro at 02:15 PM on October 09

i *heart* bullpen.

posted by goddam at 02:24 PM on October 09

This Jays fan is just thankful that the trigger was never pulled on the 1999-era Halladay-Carpenter-Wells for Pedro Astacio trade. I'll take my victories where I can get 'em.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 02:30 PM on October 09

Now, goddam, are you just looking at things in the stadium and saying that you love them?

posted by chicobangs at 02:47 PM on October 09

six months of baseball fibromyalgia Is that anything like Reggae Mylitis?

posted by yerfatma at 02:49 PM on October 09

i *heart* bullpen. Me too.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:03 PM on October 09

Grum, good answer about that particular criticism. Jon Heyman's piece on CNNSI today comes the closest to nailing why Torre needs to go, and how the Yankees should approach the next few months. Plain and simple, this team needs an attitude change. No, Torre does not run, hit, pitch, or field, but the great pile of talent that he has on the field, the one that has no problem winning 95 games in the regular season, has completely rolled over in the playoffs the last 3 years, and 4 of the last 5. They just quit. No heart at all. I knew that game 4 was over the minute Monroe hit that home run. It was only the 2nd inning, but I knew it was over because every Yankee gave up right then. You could see it in their faces and in how they played the rest of the way. The same thing happened last year against some no-name pitcher with the Angels, and the year before for four agonizing games against the Sox. This is a leadership thing, and regardless of how well Torre handles the media, and the boss, and the egos (which I think is all a bunch of bull anyway - the egos of Jeter and ARod are a huge issue right now and have been all along), he isn't bringing anything to the table to get these guys fired up, or pissed off, or excited. He's had 11 great years, but it's time to go. I'm not sold on Lou yet, but I think it's got to be someone else. Maybe Girardi would be the guy. He's a Torre disciple but he also did tell his owner to F off, so that could be a great combination of calm and fire. We'll see.

posted by Bernreuther at 03:05 PM on October 09

Now, goddam, are you just looking at things in the stadium and saying that you love them? ya got me chico. i was giving myself an out in case bpp goes and says something silly in the future. my spacebar really broke today. it's a pain in the ass pasting spaces after every word.

posted by goddam at 03:05 PM on October 09

Conditional love is the truthiest kind because you have to earn it. Kind of like managing the Yankees, I guess. goddam: paste in a whole bunch of spaces at the beginning, then use the right arrow as your spacebar. Might be easier.

posted by BullpenPro at 03:27 PM on October 09

that was an Anchorman quip from chico that went over everyone's head. You people need to watch more tv.

posted by jerseygirl at 03:37 PM on October 09

the great pile of talent that he has on the field, the one that has no problem winning 95 games in the regular season, has completely rolled over in the playoffs the last 3 years, and 4 of the last 5. They just quit. No heart at all. There's a simple reason for that, if you'll allow me: no David Cone, Paul O'Neill, no Joe Girardi, no Roger Clemens, no Andy Pettitte. They just don't have any sergeants that will get in the other guys' faces and will them not to quit. I thought Jeter was this kind of player back in the day, but I think he needs the same bolstering everyone else does.

posted by psmealey at 04:02 PM on October 09

It's as bad if not worse than watching Roger Clemens Clemens was a Blue Jay before he was a Yankee, so it's still a bit painful to see him performing so well (although, not as well as when he was a Blue Jay, possibly his best two consecutive years in his career).

posted by grum@work at 06:06 PM on October 09

I know what it is to watch your former players spread all over the post-season. You mean like: Milton Bradley, Scott Sauerbeck, Sean Casey, Jaret Wright, Kenny Lofton, Guillermo Mota(stretch), Ronnie Belliard, Dave Roberts, Brian Giles, Josh Bard, and Russell Branyan. We Indians fans know that feeling also. That list is just from this post season.

posted by jojomfd1 at 09:28 PM on October 09

Brian Giles But you just HAD to have Ricardo Rincon!

posted by grum@work at 10:48 PM on October 09

No, not really. That was another one of those things that pissed me off.

posted by jojomfd1 at 11:59 PM on October 09

Any time you decide you want Jaret Wright back...

posted by BullpenPro at 08:33 AM on October 10

I just want to note this down as the most astute and perceptive piece of original insight that SportsFilter has ever, ever seen. Congratulations and thank you, BornIcon -- no one ever said that before, but now that you have, I feel an epiphany coming on. I'm a changed bat Thanx lil_brown_bat, but I sense a bit of sarcasm from u when all u ever really do is comment on what other people have to say. Come up with ur conclusions on subjects otherwise, ur just here for comic relief and ur really not that funny. Sorry...someone had to tell u.

posted by BornIcon at 08:47 AM on October 10

Yeah, LBB. Why don't you come back when you're better able to regurgitate stuff you heard on the FAN using AOL-speak.

posted by BullpenPro at 09:16 AM on October 10

t0rr3 === luz3r. LOL!!!!!1!

posted by yerfatma at 09:29 AM on October 10

Okay, BornIcon, I'll give you this much: you were only one of many who regurgitated a tired old truism (the business about how a big payroll doesn't buy you championships), and you didn't deserve the sarcasm any more than the rest of them. However, the plural "you" did deserve it: just as you're not the only person who uttered the line about big payrolls, so were you not the only person in my mind when I commented on the unoriginality of this sentiment. There is no good reason why tired old truisms should have unassailable sacred status, or be treated as if they represent original thought, and this one was overdue to be run through. If it stings more than you like, well...what can I say? Reading regurgitated tired old truisms makes me more nauseous than I like, so maybe we should just call it even and move on? Oh, and as for my conclusions on the subject of the Yankees' 2006 post-season performance? Posted above. One sentence plus one interjection. At this time I decline to join in the premature analysis-fest.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:09 AM on October 10

the business about how a big payroll doesn't buy you championships The Irony: if the Yankees DID win the World Series, these very same people would say they bought the championship.

posted by BullpenPro at 10:29 AM on October 10

Actually, the "tired old truism" that as you so eloquently put it, that I 'regurgitated' is fact. Everyone and their mother thought the Yankees were on there way to another World Series with the talent (and $$) that went into building the 2006 Yankees. If it stings more than you like, well...what can I say? You have got to be kidding, right? This here is nothing more than a few people whose opinions really don't matter (except to ourselves) but feel as if their voices need to be heard, regardless if you agree or not. I personally enjoy having the freedom to express my thoughts on this site and having people agree or disagree with what I have to say. So for you to assume that your comments 'sting' is not only tooting your own horn like if you said something meaningful but also juvenile. I don't mind having an intellectual conversation but it just seems to me when the subject is about sports, everyone is right and no one is wrong. Stings? I have to agree with that BullpenPro cause that's exactly what would've been said.

posted by BornIcon at 10:44 AM on October 10

lbb, you have been jest a mite touchy about your Yankees, though understandably so. Spring training is just around the corner...

posted by mjkredliner at 11:11 AM on October 10

Damn. I knew I should have gotten some popcorn for lunch.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:22 AM on October 10

All Yankee fans are a bit touchy this time of year and rightfully so. Knowing that they had a $200 million payroll and no championship to show for it, can bring out the worst in any fan. All I had to say was that the Yankees had a great year and were put in position to at least make it to the World Series and failed. No one thought that Detroit would make it past the mighty Yankees but look what happened. It's like a 'friend of mine' said about "tired old truism": When your at the top, the fall is a long way down. Damn. I knew I should have gotten some popcorn for lunch I guess T.O. WAS right; GET YOUR POPCORN READY

posted by BornIcon at 11:48 AM on October 10

BornIcon: Actually, the "tired old truism" that as you so eloquently put it, that I 'regurgitated' is fact. I know. That's what a truism is, more or less ("an undoubted or self-evident truth; especially one too obvious for mention" - Webster). Second time now: I never denied that it was fact...but it's also obvious, and has been said or referred to a bunch of times. It's also, IMO, simplistic: of course money doesn't buy a championship, but would anyone deny that it does ease the way through the vale of tears that is MLB? Would anyone deny that it expands a team's options? Simply repeating that money doesn't buy championships neither advances the discussion of what does get you a championship, nor does it lay any questions to rest. I'm okay if you don't see it that way, but not so okay if you insist on seeing my disdain for a cliche as some kind of personal attack. Second time now, it wasn't. On preview: It's like a 'friend of mine' said about "tired old truism": When your at the top, the fall is a long way down. So, who's this "friend of yours"?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:56 AM on October 10

Someone with the same damn homonym problem I have, apparently. I don't think it's me, though.

posted by yerfatma at 12:03 PM on October 10

I don't mind having an intellectual conversation but it just seems to me when the subject is about sports, everyone is right and no one is wrong. Yeah...can't we just get a wrong?

posted by BullpenPro at 12:04 PM on October 10

torre is staying. (via Peter Abraham)

posted by goddam at 12:24 PM on October 10

torre is staying. (via Peter Abraham) More here

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:34 PM on October 10

Good decision by the Yankee brass if this stands true come spring training. Torre isn't the problem and axing him would have been cutting off the nose to spite the face.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:53 PM on October 10

It's kind of an ugly nose though. And face, for that matter.

posted by yerfatma at 12:56 PM on October 10

Touche.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:05 PM on October 10

lil_brown_bat: See, this is the problem. People don't know when to let things go. I, in no way shape, form or fashion said that it was a 'personal attack'. It was more or less about you trying to belittle my opinion because of your 'disdain for a cliche' that I so happened to use to make my point. I have no problem whatsoever if you disagree with what I have to say. Actually, I encourage it so let bygones be bygones. By the way, I don't need Webster's definition of what truism means but thanks for the clarification for those that do not know what that word means. Very valuable info if that helps. Another thing friend, Pronunciation: 'frend Function: noun Etymology: Middle English frend, from Old English frEond; akin to Old High German friunt friend, Old English frEon to love, frEo free : one attached to another by affection or esteem : ACQUAINTANCE : one that is not hostile : one that is of the same nation, party, or group Does that help you any?

posted by BornIcon at 01:23 PM on October 10

People don't know when to let things go. You don't say? I've never noticed that before around here. Must've been a one-time deal.

posted by garfield at 02:04 PM on October 10

Does that help you any? Not really. I'm just getting more confused. You can chalk that up to whatever you want; I'm done here.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:16 PM on October 10

The new rumors are that Steinbrenner is going to keep Torre. As a baseball fan, I am glad to hear this because it is a sensible and wise decision. As a Red Sox fan, I fear another year of Torre's excellent leadership. Anyhow, good for Torre. He deserves to keep his job.

posted by Joey Michaels at 06:03 PM on October 10

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