Gearing up for Fenway: Even us AL West fans love this rivalry.
posted by mjkredliner to baseball at 11:17 AM - 39 comments
posted by jerseygirl at 11:35 AM on May 30
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Yanks fans are definitely higher than murderers on the list of most hated in Boston. And going old school is weak...
posted by MW12 at 11:50 AM on May 30
The guy kind of sounds like a douche even before he mentions his allegiance. As for:
"When I tell a Bostonian that Iím a Yanks fan, a look crosses their face like someone took a shit in their shoe. Iíve literally had girls in bars turn around and walk away."
posted by yerfatma at 11:58 AM on May 30
It is like the Broadway Show that most have seen or heard about, it is anywhere in the American League, "DANM YANKEES."
posted by coach at 12:24 PM on May 30
"Even us AL West fans love this rivalry."
posted by whymy at 12:55 PM on May 30
Sorry whymy, I was referring to the redliner household.
posted by mjkredliner at 12:59 PM on May 30
One of the interesting things about living in the Hartford, CT area (canned laughter)is that it is, in essence, the front line of the battle between Red Sox and Yankee fans. Neither fan is on decidely "enemy turf," and you cannot exist as one without tolerance of the other. My girlfriend works for a company of five people -- three Yankee fans and two Sox fans. No matter where you work, eat, recreate, you are in a mixed bag. It's like a whole population of Seinfelds and Newmans. When the two teams play each other, the next day one side smiles and raises an eye brow while the other grits their collective teeth, but there is no wild rejoicing or unfettered beer-crying like there is in Boston and New York, because the other side is always watching you. As for the article, I respect anyone who can openly root for their team in the opposite city. And the advice is fairly sound, particularly about the caps (during the 1996 WS, my dad was in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium -- he reported that some guy "lost" his Braves cap, and it was eventually set on fire). And, although I haven't crossed that line myself, I know plenty of manly men who wear Jeter shirts. There really isn't anything wrong with that.
posted by BullpenPro at 01:18 PM on May 30
And, although I haven't crossed that line myself, I know plenty of manly men who wear Jeter shirts. Liar. You're wearing one right now, aren't ya?!
posted by grum@work at 01:26 PM on May 30
I know plenty of manly men who wear Jeter shirts. And belly shirts to boot, one imagines.
posted by yerfatma at 01:38 PM on May 30
Hartford is the front line of the battle indeed... While there last fall at the convention center downtown there was a shooting in broad daylight right out front. And I don't know if the victim was wearing a Jeter jersey but to quote Chris Rock, "Now I'm not saying he should have killed (him)- but I understand."
posted by MW12 at 01:45 PM on May 30
Good column, but it both of those teams disappeared tomorrow MLB would be better off. The Red Sox broke their curse, thank god, and I hope not to hear from them again for another 100 years. For me they're no more than the people who helped destroy the Expos. Since Steiny has owned the team the Yankees have represented all that is wrong with the business of baseball. Hopefully, the future of MLB is with owners like Arturo Moreno. With any luck we'll have a couple of decades of no team from the AL East making it past the first round of the playoffs. The Rays are already doing their part.
posted by ?! at 01:50 PM on May 30
For me they're no more than the people who helped destroy the Expos. Did the Red Sox invade Montreal and punch Jeff Loria in the balls telling him not to sign FAs like Vlad and to trade the team away?
posted by jerseygirl at 02:10 PM on May 30
I wonder who has been punching the Ranger's front office in the balls all these years?
posted by mjkredliner at 02:35 PM on May 30
Ah, jgirl - you had me at "Punch Jeffrey Loria in the balls."
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:00 PM on May 30
When the Yanks do something good, donít jump up and down. Unless youíre a girl with big jubblies, which I decidedly am not. You can clap and cheer, just donít overdo it. Thats was the funniest part of the whole article. Although this article was funny, the guy made lots of good points about the rivalry. I enjoyed reading it- and can't wait for the Yanks vs. Bosox.
posted by redsoxrgay at 03:00 PM on May 30
posted by yerfatma at 03:03 PM on May 30
No, jerseygirl, the "Red Sox" didn't. But John Henry colluded with the other owners of MLB to screw the Expos fans. Of course, screwing the Marlins fans was only a bonus. I believe you know enough about MLB to know Loria, et al., never intended to do anything other than get the Expos franchise out of Montreal. But, in true American spirit, let's celebrate the Big Guys and cheer on the Yankees and Red Sox. I live for that!
posted by ?! at 06:11 PM on May 30
But, in true American spirit, let's celebrate the Big Guys and cheer on the Yankees and Red Sox. I live for that! See! That's the spirit! Yippee! Yay America!
posted by jerseygirl at 06:54 PM on May 30
"The Red Sox broke their curse, thank god, and I hope not to hear from them again for another 100 years.
Since Steiny has owned the team the Yankees have represented all that is wrong with the business of baseball.
But, in true American spirit, let's celebrate the Big Guys and cheer on the Yankees and Red Sox. I live for that!"
posted by zippinglou at 06:56 PM on May 30
Man, it is really difficult to make sarcasm work well around here. ?!, your beef with All Things AL East is noted. I think this rivalry is the best in Sport (although UT- OU is a fine one, too!). I surely hope I can catch a game at Fenway and Yankee Stadium someday.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:31 AM on May 31
mjkredliner: You are correct that sarcasm is difficult. And here I thought it was obvious. zippinglou: I thought it was an American tradition to root for the "little guy." That's a huge clue to the sarcasm in my final sentence. The "I live for that" itself was dripping in sarcasm, but I'll assume you missed the Sportsfilter podcast. I believe jerseygirl just ignored my intent on purpose. A bit of sarcasm of her own. The Yankees and Red Sox is a good rivalry for that mass market of Newbostyork (and the snowbirds in Tampa.) The media likes it also. But I don't believe those teams are good for baseball. This, however, isn't the thread to put forth that argument. And I hope you get to catch games at both parks also. (But I'll blaspheme and tell you they aren't as special as their fans tell you ad nauseum. But that's true of most "homers.")
posted by ?! at 09:22 PM on May 31
But that's true of most "homers." uh, isn't that the point of being a fan? you know, to root for your home team? anyway, most "homers" i know are sick of the hype too.
posted by goddam at 10:29 PM on May 31
goddam, you're right. (I just had to write that.) I was using "homers" specifically about their odd love and reverence for their home stadium. You know how Cubs fans can be for example. It's ivy over a brick wall for god's sake. And most don't even know it was planted by the guy who later owned the White Sox. For me, rooting for your team is another, and better understood, matter.
posted by ?! at 08:51 AM on June 01
You mean like the Save Fenway freaks who, when asked where the Sox would play if it took 12-18 months to renovate Fenway, responded with "Couldn't they take a year off?"
posted by yerfatma at 09:12 AM on June 01
That doesn't make sense. Because you appreciate the historical ballpark your home team plays in, you're a "homer" ?
posted by jerseygirl at 09:27 AM on June 01
I was using "homers" specifically about their odd love and reverence for their home stadium ok, i get it now. sure, there are people who go a little overboard, but there's nothing wrong with having pride in your hometown ballpark.
posted by goddam at 09:34 AM on June 01
Baseball ain't near as much fun if tradition isn't held in high regard, and Fenway, Yankee Stadium, and Wrigley absolutely reek of it. (Speaking as someone who only wishes to experience it, of course) Ameriquest Field is nice and all, but not trodden upon by the legends and ghosts of the aforementioned venues. Nothin' like baseball to make me wax poetic, sniff, sniff.
posted by mjkredliner at 10:40 AM on June 01
I agree with mjkredliner -- naturally, the special quality of parks like Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Wrigley, old Tiger Stadium, etc. comes a great deal from the history within. Camden Yards in Baltimore and PNC in Pittsburgh are arguably quite a bit nicer than any of the those older parks as simple structures. If you aren't willing to bring the historical context with you to the ballpark, you are going to miss out on what makes these ballparks special.
posted by BullpenPro at 11:53 AM on June 01
Sure, but those places only have historical context because of what happened inside their walls. I think Fenway is a wonderful place in the abstract, John Updikian-hazy memory of The Great Past, but it's not more important than the game of baseball or even the Red Sox.
posted by yerfatma at 12:46 PM on June 01
Sure, but those places only have historical context because of what happened inside their walls. Exactly. I don't have to root for the Red Sox to enjoy (and respect)(and wallow in like a pig, which, given the chance to visit Fenway, I might just do!) their grand tradition and history, stadium included. I don't think anyone suggested The Stage was bigger than The Play.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:58 PM on June 01
yerfatma got it jerseygirl. mjkredliner: I say there are fans who believe there is something special about the bricks, seats, etc of Fenway, Yankee Stadium, and Wrigley Field. They'll treat the Green Monster with a Wailing Wall reverence without the knowledge of why it is there or even that it wasn't always green. Now we have architects who install a hill in the outfield because an old park had one and they want an "old feel quirk" to their park. I love baseball history -- down to the brick and mortar aspect. I even convinced my wife to pick me up a brick from this park when it was demolished. I'm just bored with fans loving something merely because it is old. There is no mystical reason why Fenway exists but Crosley, Cominsky, and Ebbets are gone. And, of course, I'm sure no one on Sportsfilter is the kind of homer I've been discussing.
posted by ?! at 09:07 PM on June 01
?! The fans you refer to, obviously, are delusional and somewhat obsessed. However, (and I hate to say this word, but, for lack of a better one,here goes!) there is a certain aura ( (There, I said it. Not too painful, either) to certain places or venues of historical interest (ie: The Alamo, Gettysburg, Little Big Horn, The Cotton Bowl (site of many a different type of massacre, har har) Colonial Country Club etc., etc.) that cannot be experienced without actually having been there, at least in my experience. And, maybe, I am a fruitcake that gets carried away about such things, but I do, so there, nannienanniebooboo. And, I like the current trends in stadium architecture, myself. The only thing that I despise is the naming of them after corporate enterprise. (I ask you, which sounds better? The Ballpark at Arlington, or Ameriquest Bank Field? Mile High Stadium, or Invesco Field at Mile High? Candlestick Park, or (insert telecommunications giant here) Stadium? Certainly, the stadiums built in the last 15 years are a vast improvement over the concrete, multi purpose debacles known as Three Rivers, Riverfront, And Veterans (at least the names were classy). As for people loving things just because they are old, I reckon I will not have to worry about having to out bid you at the next antique auction I attend! :) And, I much prefer the Odyssey of Homer the Simpson over that of Homer the Greek.
posted by mjkredliner at 11:43 AM on June 02
I'm just bored with fans loving something merely because it is old. There is no mystical reason why Fenway exists but Crosley, Cominsky, and Ebbets are gone. Really? There are fans who say "I love fenway...it's just so old"? What makes fenway special, or wrigley, or yankee stadium, is the history that has gone on in those places. The fact that they are old just allows this to be true. You can build a wonderful ballpark. It won't have the history. There is something magical for most people returning to scenes of great moments, and not just in baseball. Has nothing to do with being a homer, and there's certainly nothing wrong with it.
posted by justgary at 12:53 PM on June 02
justgary: I have more experience with Cubs fans than Sox fans, but yes, there are fans who love Wrigley because "It's been here forever." It hasn't. And it really isn't that great a park. It has everything to do with being that kind of "homer." Tell you what. I'll grab that Cubs fan for you. We'll convince him that the Cubs and the White Sox are trading fields. 20 minutes later he'll be talking about how great "The Cell" plays. Transfer him and his family to Boston. Give him season tickets and suddenly Fenway will be the greatest field ever. "There is something magical for most people ...." Sure, I would have loved to see Willie Mays in the Polo Grounds. But if you rebuilt it brick by brick at the exact location I wouldn't give a darn. It's the thrill of seeing him in the field, not seeing the field. I guess I'm just not one of your majority. I never said anyone was right or wrong. We're all arguing opinions here. I'm not expecting to change any minds.
posted by ?! at 01:05 PM on June 02
Sure, I would have loved to see Willie Mays in the Polo Grounds. But if you rebuilt it brick by brick at the exact location I wouldn't give a darn. you'd also piss a lot people off. there are high rise apartments there now.
posted by goddam at 07:40 PM on June 02
Eminent domain is the answer. Let them move to Montrťal if they don't want to be moved for a baseball field.
posted by ?! at 10:29 PM on June 02
I never said anyone was right or wrong. We're all arguing opinions here. I'm not expecting to change any minds. I guess I just don't get what you're saying. People don't love fenway because it's old. They love it because of the history. Because it is old, there's a lot of history. If they build a new park in boston, people might say the park is great, the seats are comfortable, the hotdogs are great. They won't say the same things they said about fenway. I'm not trying to change your mind. Some people travel to see old, historic sites, some don't. Some people go back to see the house they grew up in, to others that's silly. But you've got a brick from a park that was tore down, yet don't understand someone getting exciting about going to fenway because of the history. The two don't seem to jive.
posted by justgary at 01:34 AM on June 04
It's the praying in the cathedreal of Fenway without the knowledge of the history of Fenway that irks me. (And again I'll mention I know more Wrigley "fans" than Fenway "fans.") I was talking about "fans" going to Fenway, not because they have knowledge of its history, but because they have heard its a "great old park." In other words, some people do love Fenway because it is old or, at least, they were told it's a great old park. I have the Parkway brick because my father stood at that wall and watched hundreds of games. Years later I even bounced a few doubles against it. I hated seeing them tear it down, precisely because I knew its history. justgary, to sum it up, I'm irked by those who love "the church," but are clueless about "the word."
posted by ?! at 12:50 PM on June 04
justgary, to sum it up, I'm irked by those who love "the church," but are clueless about "the word." Ahh, I got ya now. Thanks for the explanation.
posted by justgary at 01:37 PM on June 04
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