FanDuel - WFBC

January 04, 2006

Booo!: Discuss. Thoughtfully, please.

posted by garfield to hockey at 05:04 PM - 82 comments

There has been alot of talk about the boo birds. I think it is important to point out the distinction between America (the country, the policies) and Americans (the people). And I think the booing purely relates to the former, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the latter.

posted by garfield at 05:21 PM on January 04

Anyone else find this really shallow? OTOH, I heartily endorse booing the U.S. team, and perhaps throwing softwood lumber at them.

posted by wfrazerjr at 05:22 PM on January 04

Well, the USA was favoured to win the whole thing. They edged Finland, tied with Switzerland and got stomped by Russia. Maybe it was frustration. Meh. They had the Canadian flag upside down in Atlanta in 92. And what's his face with the bow tie on CNN or something recently said that Canada was America's retarded cousin. The free trade agreement includes disrespect.

posted by gspm at 05:58 PM on January 04

I thought the Muir piece was pretty good, especially given that he's a Canadian in the deep south. garfield, Candians boo the Americans for lots of reasons, politics & policies being just two of them. Hockey is just a hotter ticket for Candians than most things, so this brings out the inner Don Cherry in everyone. As both a Canadian and an American, I like the booing. It does mean respect. There aren't any death threats or slashed tires on the buses going on here. (Are there?) It's just screaming from the seats, and it's part of why a border town like Vancouver was chosen to host this thing.

posted by chicobangs at 06:07 PM on January 04

I think it is important to point out the distinction between America (the country, the policies) and Americans (the people). And I think the booing purely relates to the former, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the latter. There is no distinction in my view. You can't boo America without booing its people since we ultimately make the policies.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 06:15 PM on January 04

I don't know. Of course you can boo just the hockey team and separate it from the government. Most people I imagine are doing primarily just that. You'll get some virulent anti-American yahoos, but this is a junior hockey tournament, and I'd like to think that the Canadian fans are booing the Americans as much out of fun as anything else. This is the only chance many of these people will ever get to cheer against something so loudly. This isn't ancient Rome, or Philadelphia, where open hatred of sports figures is something you learn along with training wheels and the birds & the bees and how Saturday Night Live was once good but now will always and forever suck. Many of these people will never boo anything in public again, and they know it. Hence the gusto they're doing this with now.

posted by chicobangs at 06:35 PM on January 04

There is no distinction in my view. You can't boo America without booing its people since we ultimately make the policies. STL, if you can tell me how you think the majority of Americans are affecting any policy of the Bush administration, I'll be glad to listen.

posted by wfrazerjr at 06:38 PM on January 04

STL, if you can tell me how you think the majority of Americans are affecting any policy of the Bush administration, I'll be glad to listen. It's very simple. We voted him into office. In doing so we voted in any and all of his policies where he can get the majority support of congress. That's the way this republic works because it would be impractical/impossible for the people to vote on every policy or law. I suffered through eight years of Bill Clinton and disagreed with most of his policies. But when he spoke he spoke for the American people of which I am one.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 07:25 PM on January 04

I understand that there was booing before the US-Canada game; but the Jack Johnson incident at the end of that game certainly inflamed the fans. From the angles they showed the replay, that looked like the worst of cheap shots.

posted by Amateur at 07:32 PM on January 04

Well anyway, that's almost certainly not the case here. I think this is just a case of the long-inferior next-door neighbour, with whom there's been a long mostly-friendly rivalry, who's finally become an equal in something the Canadians hold kind of dear. If there are brawls in the parking lots, or cars being torched, that's another story, but lustily booing your close and equal adversary is the oldest tradition in spectator sports. Frankly, I'd be shocked if it didn't happen, regardless of what non-sports-related world events are going on out there.

posted by chicobangs at 07:44 PM on January 04

You can't boo America without booing its people since we ultimately make the policies.

You have a very different vision of America than I do.

posted by DudeDykstra at 07:59 PM on January 04

I say let them boo, after all we boo each other all the time. How many baseball games have you seen where the crowd booed somebody. Sometimes even someone on their own team. Obviously something we are doing is getting their attention or they wouldn't even give us the time of day.

posted by skydivemom at 08:00 PM on January 04

It's irrelevant. You're not supposed to boo athletes in 2006.

posted by yerfatma at 08:03 PM on January 04

THIS JUST OUT: WASHINGTON,D.C.(AP)- Sadaam Hussein may have hidden his Weapons of Mass Destruction in undisclosed areas of Canada -- with that country's knowledge -- according to a high-ranking source and American hockey fan in the White House. As a result, the Joint Chiefs of Staff are planning a possible invasion of, what Vice President Dick Cheney called, "those evil-doing Canuck bastards north of the border."

posted by rockamora at 08:58 PM on January 04

chefwest, that is a very nice post, you should be extremely proud of yourself.

posted by tselson at 10:20 PM on January 04

I heard two slurs against Americans today in Toronto, one from my boss and one from a client. The first was in reference to someone from the UK, "at least she isn't American". The second was referencing "asshole Americans" which are apparantly a general point of contention. My girlfriend is American, and she hears slurs against the American people in general, having nothing to do with the government, Bush, Iraq or lumber, every day, in lectures at UofT, on TV, and in casual conversation. It's just as shallow and offensive as talking about how much one hates Indians, or Pakistanis, or Africans or anybody else. This guy may think that the booing is about hockey, but that would mean ignoring the casual and socially acceptable level that anti-Americanism has reached in Canada among many people. Oh, and chefwest: Read this - it'll blow your mind. Imagine! Hockey without ice!

posted by loquax at 12:11 AM on January 05

Top 10 examples of chefwest's "Culture in Canada" 10.A beer, a barstool and a black-and-white TV. 9. Dildo ice-carving. 8. In-depth study of the socio-economic and world foreign policy principles of Avril Lavigne 7. Bareass ice hockey 6. Feasting on a gourmet all-you-can-eat Canadien buffet of boiled reindeer, squirrel fricassee, baked skunk and sweet pickled beaver. 5. Booing those f@#king Americans "a-boot 10 times a day, eh?" 4. Having long intellectual discussions about the efects on the national psyche concerning Molson versus Labatt's. 3. "My name is chefwest, and I am an American-hating Canadian!" 2. Breathlessly awaiting the annual "Naked Mounties" calender edition. And the No.1 example of chefwest's "Culture in Canada": 1. Soft wood

posted by rockamora at 01:12 AM on January 05

Ugh - being insulted by a guy from Pittsburgh. Now that hurts. Ah - everyone taking the time to blow this out of proportion. Since when were the 'mericans so sensitive about what us dumb-ass Canucks think? So we booed the shit out of your hockey team - tell me you're not used to being booed internationally. Hell, it used to be a source of pride. Tell me you haven't lustily booed your opponents when it was politically, or emotionally expidient. And finally - Did any of you watch any of these World Juniors? From what I gather, it's just to the right of the Firefighter's Challenge in most of the US. Yes, there are plenty of American-hating Canucks. It's an important part of the Canadian identity for some. There are also plenty of Americans who don't know the first thing about their great neighbour and it irks us to no end. I think that most of us can put on the ol' rationality caps and get over it.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:01 AM on January 05

They boo us and cheer for our adversaries because they fear us. The same reason I boo the Flyers and Rangers. And by the way, it's just a hockey game.

posted by njsk8r20 at 08:14 AM on January 05

Am I the only one not shocked that there is booing going on at a sporting event? If Canadians, the originators of hockey, feel so threatened by my team they need to boo, I'm a little flattered. As far as Anti-American sentiment, I share some of it, I am disguted by some of it, but it is a fact of life that is not going to change. Everyone hates a bully which we are some times forced to become be it for good or for bad. I love some of the Candaian culture, Cerebus, Neil Young, You Can't Do That On Television, Alan Thicke, all at different times were big parts of my life. Chewfest, you sound so angry. Please calm down, take some thorazine, smoke some grass, get laid, whatever, all that rage is wreaking havok on the ol' ticker.

posted by HATER 187 at 08:37 AM on January 05

OTOH, I heartily endorse booing the U.S. team, and perhaps throwing softwood lumber at them. I believe they mostly use those composite sticks now. Sorry, fraze. I understand that there was booing before the US-Canada game; but the Jack Johnson incident at the end of that game certainly inflamed the fans. I only caught the last ten minutes or so of the game, so I can't say much about the pre-game booing, but that incident was pretty awful. The only time I've found really widespread booing not distasteful was the awarding of the Player of the Game award to Johnson.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:00 AM on January 05

No.1 example of ...."Culture in Canada": Three little words: Degrassi Junior High. And for the last time - we've apologized for Alan Thicke, it won't happen again, just let it go. And for the record - Avril Lavigne's popularity is entirely YOUR fault, USA. That and Alanis. We got rid of 'em - you took 'em and lamentably ignored the Tragically Hip. Damn right you deserve to be booed. (Oday otnay entionmay elineCay ionneDay) Okay?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:03 AM on January 05

It's very simple. We voted (Bush) into office. Someone hasn't been paying attention, has he?

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:06 AM on January 05

"My girlfriend is American, and she hears slurs against the American people in general, having nothing to do with the government, Bush, Iraq or lumber, every day, in lectures at UofT, on TV, and in casual conversation." It happens, and it's unfortunate when a big rich powerful nation and her people are victims of hurtful words. But many Americans have behavioral characteristics that come from that big rich power -- real or perceived. Watch an American television show like The Amazing Race, you'll see impatient gameshow contestants and film crews trampling foreign lands and peoples as if they are exotic soundstages and extras. An American viewer doesn't see anything wrong with this, to them it's an entitlement, it's not really worthy of questioning, and hey, it looks like fun! So too goes unquestioned the conquistador mentality of the American government which is always eager to extend charity to anyone that lives above an oil reserve. For most of the world, there appears to be a huge imbalance in their relationship with the United States. It would be denial to pretend this isn't widely felt. But most Canadians like-and-love American culture and have a good friendship with American people.

posted by the red terror at 09:25 AM on January 05

>>And finally - Did any of you watch any of these World Juniors? From what I gather, it's just to the right of the Firefighter's Challenge in most of the US.>> Well, I did. But that's only because I pay for the Center Ice cable package which is the only place it's broadcast in the US. And they only show the American games. Which is unfortunate. I'm from Minnesota. We worship hockey the same way Canadians do. But I realize the rest of my country doesn't. Which makes me sad. I spent last night watching Team USA in the under 17 gold medal game against Quebec while my husband was more interested in the USC-Texas football game. So, I guess I get where this guy is coming from, and I get the booing after the cheap shot Jack Johnson inflicted which deeply embarassed me, but it might behoove the Canadians to know that not all states in the US are as hockey-illiterate as they believe us to be, and, umm..also? The majority of people in this country did not vote for Bush, and are certainly not repsonisble for his foreign policy decisions and what any of that has to do with hockey is beyond me.

posted by criedel at 10:11 AM on January 05

With all of our faults in tow, America has emerged as the world's super power. While most of the "sophisticated" countries in the world despise us for this, secretly they must be thankful. And for those who are not, please step up to the plate with your own defense budget because some of us are tired of paying for it. Until then, keep booing and bitching, we're used to it. Just stay out of the way while we expend our resources and blood trying to make a safer world for you to live in. As Americans, it's just not in us to beg our enemies not to hurt us.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 10:38 AM on January 05

oh please, take the selfless generosity out of your tone.

posted by garfield at 10:46 AM on January 05

The majority of people in this country did not vote for Bush, and are certainly not repsonisble for his foreign policy decisions and what any of that has to do with hockey is beyond me. The majority of people voting did vote for Bush giving him a margin of victory of about 3 million. It was in all the papers. Further, if you are an American you are responsible for "his" policies whether you like them or not. If you don't like them you can change things with your vote. Of course you have to get a majority to agree with you.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 10:51 AM on January 05

The majority of Americans didn't even vote, and Bush did not win the popular vote. He won because the electoral college is an antiquated system. And, no, I am not responsible for Bush or his policies as I did not vote for him, nor have I ever supported anything this moron and his oil buddies have ever done or anything he stands for and I have actively worked to campaign against everything he stands for. Regardless, you are quite incorrect in saying that the majority of Americans voted for him. And it has nothing to do with hockey.

posted by criedel at 10:55 AM on January 05

Is it really any different than the way the US treated the Russian team in the 1980 olympics?

posted by njsk8r20 at 11:11 AM on January 05

So... wait. Should I have been begging the US junior team to not beat my team in the tourney? 'Cause I didn't, and they didn't.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:12 AM on January 05

The majority of Americans didn't even vote, and Bush did not win the popular vote. He won because the electoral college is an antiquated system. Read my post. "The majority of people voting..." And you say Bush did not win the popular vote? Your facts please. And, no, I am not responsible for Bush or his policies as I did not vote for him, Just as Bush is your President, like it or not, so are his policies, like 'em or not. Sorry to have to tell you this.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 11:17 AM on January 05

Let's see Canada have a football team and play against us! I think it will be the opposite scenario of the canada vs. USA hockey games. It will be us booing the f**k out of them while kicking their butts!

posted by D-train at 11:21 AM on January 05

The majority of Americans didn't even vote, and Bush did not win the popular vote. 60% of eligible voters voted, the highest turnout since 1968. Bush won the popular vote 60,693,381 to 57,355,978.

posted by tselson at 11:36 AM on January 05

Does the "D" in D-train stand for "derail"?

posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:37 AM on January 05

And for those who are not, please step up to the plate with your own defense budget because some of us are tired of paying for it. No you're not. It fuels a significant portion of your economy. The USA is the bestest war-profiteering nation in history. Not only that, but it also helps secure the domination you're so proud of, since you're quickly losing ground to the Chinese, Indians and a unifed Europe in terms of marketplace size. "Why We Fight" - a really good documentary on the subject is worth a peek.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:50 AM on January 05

No you're not. It fuels a significant portion of your economy. The USA is the bestest war-profiteering nation in history. Horseshit, Weedy. Taking a buncha stuff halfway around the world and blowing it up profits a few and impoverishes the many. Don't you dare tell me I'm getting paid out of all this.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:58 AM on January 05

>>Just as Bush is your President, like it or not, so are his policies, like 'em or not. Sorry to have to tell you this.>> I'm avoiding the popular vote issue, and the massive voter fraud in Ohio, but I must actually say that Bush is not now, nor ever will be my president, and every day that he holds that office he makes me ashamed to be an American. So you can keep asserting it if you like, but it's not true. I do not personally believe his presidency is valid. Back to hockey, the Canadians are entitled to boo anyone they like. And, hey, they won, we took a cheap shot, we probably deserve it.

posted by criedel at 12:01 PM on January 05

Is it an indication of how much we all "secretly" love US foreign policy that so many posts on a SPORTS website turn into political arguments about it? Just stay out of the way while we expend our resources and blood trying to make a safer world for you to live in. I promised myself when I read this that I wouldn't dignify it with a response, but I can't help myself. Have I mentioned before how badly someone needs to invent the online equivalent of a kick in the teeth? STLCardinalfan, yours is not the only country expending resources and blood, and if you still believe what is going on in Iraq and elsewhere has either made anyone safer or was ever even about that in the first instance, you really ought to seek some sort of professional psychological help. The only reason your country has emerged as "the world's super power" is that it is the only one left on earth being ruled by an idiot who thinks a global super power is the way forward for the planet as a whole. Amazingly, I find myself agreeing with the Daily Mirror's sentiments, expressed on the front page the day after Bush got re-elected. Be proud of the country in which you live, by all means, but don't let that pride blind you to its myriad faults or the fact that the rest of the world exists in its own right and not only in relation to you. *and calm* Didn't I do well not to call him a jingoistic, flag-waving, ignorant fuckwit? I think I did well to restrain myself.

posted by JJ at 12:01 PM on January 05

Very good, JJ. You'd make an excellent hockey fan. <canadian> "So, I dunno if I egree with all dat dere he dun said, eh?" </canadian>

posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:08 PM on January 05

and the massive voter fraud in Ohio, You have no proof. In fact, it has been proven to the contrary just as in Florida. But don't let that get in the way of your ignorant comments. ashamed to be an American. I have also endured Presidents with whom I disagreed. I fought in a war under one of them. Never, however, would I or will I make the statement you just have.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 12:22 PM on January 05

>>I have also endured Presidents with whom I disagreed. I fought in a war under one of them. Never, however, would I or will I make the statement you just have.>> If you actually care about this country you might think about the fact that our current corrupt administration started a war without justification that has killed thousands of your countrymen needlessly, and, I don't know, that goes on beyond me just disagreeing with him and right into angry and ashamed. I love my country. This president is doing his best to destroy it, however. It angers me deeply, and I'm not afraid to express that fact. It's sort of part of that whole thing our country was founded on? Can you be so willfully blind to what's going on? Never mind. Thousands of people in the sticks voted for this man because they were all scared of terrorism and gay marriage. Like those are vital issues in rural anywhere. And now I am done on this issue because arguing with folks whose heads are in the sand does no one any good.

posted by criedel at 12:47 PM on January 05

Horseshit, Weedy. While I am at times stunningly full of shit, the weapons business in the US is a multi-billion dollar cash cow. The USA sells more weapons than any other nation - and not just to Israel. What? You thought only people in Montana bought them? It produces hundreds of thousands of jobs (millions really - 2.5 million in the American Armed Forces), GM, Honeywell, General Dynamics, the stock market - I mean, the list goes on. So, indirectly, yes - you are benefiting from the misery. C'mon, lbb, you are aware of the Military Industiral Complex and it's impact. If it makes you feel better, the Canadian telecom industry doesn't just sell phones. And we manufactured a popular flamethrower in WW2.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:07 PM on January 05

started a war without justification The justification was there. Your disagreeing with it doesn't make it go away. I love my country. This president is doing his best to destroy it I would never acuse even our worst Presidents of this. You need help if you really believe any President is guilty of trying to destroy this country. Thousands of people in the sticks voted for this man... All of us hicks and dummies. You know, the ones with whom you disagree. all scared of terrorism Bravely said.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 01:07 PM on January 05

So you don't think they've made a wrong step? What about Plame? Isn't that treason? I mean, you're a military guy. You do see the benefit of terrorism, right? Or, at least the benefit of keeping everyone frightened of it? Did they lie about the justification for going to war? Does that matter? I don't hate the US at all - I just don't like the neo-con movement. I hope it's a blip on the radar.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:19 PM on January 05

The majority of Americans didn't even vote, and Bush did not win the popular vote. He won because the electoral college is an antiquated system. STLCardinalfan is quite right. Kerry lost by over 3 million votes. It WAS in all the papers.

posted by drevl at 01:20 PM on January 05

>>All of us hicks and dummies.>> Hey, we agree on something! We can all get along!

posted by criedel at 01:23 PM on January 05

Americans, collectively, are responsible for our President (not his policies since it is a republic, not a democracy), but each American, individually, is certainly not. The justification for the Iraq was that there were weapons of mass destruction, which have been found conclusively to not exist and was based on faulty intelligence. How can that be anything but without justification? You punch someone in the mouth because you thought he stole your lollipop, but you find out later that he didn't. You were completely unjustified in punching him. As for hockey, I think it is like Amateur Night at the Apollo. You can boo adults all you want, but you never boo the kids.

posted by bperk at 01:27 PM on January 05

It produces hundreds of thousands of jobs (millions really - 2.5 million in the American Armed Forces), GM, Honeywell, General Dynamics, the stock market - I mean, the list goes on. So, indirectly, yes - you are benefiting from the misery. C'mon, lbb, you are aware of the Military Industiral Complex and it's impact. Yes, Weedy, I'm aware of the Military Industrial Complex and its impact...more than you are, I'd say, based on what you're writing. I'm aware of the so-called "jobs created" by war. Tell me something, what are those people doing when there's not a war on? Are they in stasis in a warehouse somewhere? Tell me another thing, how much of the Halliburton money do you think is "trickling down" to the average American? How does all this war money benefit programs like LIHEAP? Oh, forget it, you don't even know what I'm talking about. And don't you dare tell me I'm benefiting from the misery; you know nothing whatsoever about my sources of income, preacher. Go boo a junior hockey team and feel holier than thou, but don't preach to me.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:31 PM on January 05

Did they lie about the justification for going to war? Does that matter? No, as a matter of fact they didn't. Did they proceed based on the best information available? Yes. Was it the same information that other countries also had. Yes. Did the Clinton administration also believe they had WMD. Yes. Was it the only reason for going to war. No. What about Plame? Do you have any facts? Her status was common knowledge and even bragged about by her husband. You do see the benefit of terrorism, right? Or, at least the benefit of keeping everyone frightened of it? You speak as though it doesn't exist. Of course if it does, it kinda blows away your arguments, doesn't it.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 01:39 PM on January 05

Let them boo. Quebec Nordiques (1972?-1996) Killed in an Avalanche Winnipeg Jets (1979?-1996) Killed by a pack of Coyotes May they rest in peace.

posted by tselson at 01:44 PM on January 05

Americans, collectively, are responsible for our President (not his policies since it is a republic, not a democracy), but each American, individually, is certainly not. Indeed this is a republic which is why you are bound to those policies, like them or not. We do not have the option to project our own policies simply because we disagree. We abide by the policies until they are changed, voted out or both. The justification for the Iraq was that there were weapons of mass destruction, which have been found conclusively to not exist and was based on faulty intelligence. If you believe WMD was the only reason for the war you're not keeping up. There were numerous reasons, not the least of which was the belief that WMD existed. And this seemed very plausible based on all the information available including the fact that Saddam demonstrated their use on at least two occasions. conclusively to not exist You sound as if to say they never existed. What happened to them?

posted by STLCardinalfan at 01:55 PM on January 05

This is a sports site. Everybody, on all sides of this, please, grind your political axes somewhere else. Perfectly interesting conversations about sports are being ruined by this shit. Take it to Metafilter, fergodsake.

posted by chicobangs at 02:05 PM on January 05

I agree. STLCardinalfan, you should really look into MetaFilter. You'd have a real fun time there.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 02:10 PM on January 05

Oh lbb, I'm hardly preaching. And my ignorance (which you've so keenly exposed) is based mostly on my education in Political Science. I spent five years getting ignorant in American Foreign Policy. Time wasted, obviously. But I was just conversing on it in general terms. And in general terms, if you live in the USA, pay taxes and buy stuff - you benefit. I don't see how one can separate themselves from that reality. I don't feel holier than thou, though. I'll leave the self righteous indignation to those who are far more used to basking in its warming embrace. And there's always a war on, always one being prepared for, armed for, etc. Naw, you're right - I can't have the smallest idea of what I'm talking about. It's completely beyond a simple minded fool like me.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:33 PM on January 05

Naw, you're right - I can't have the smallest idea of what I'm talking about. It's completely beyond a simple minded fool like me. There's theory and there's practice, Weedy. You've got the theory, I've got the practice. I look around my community and see lots of people who can't heat their homes more than 50 degrees -- that's fahrenheit -- with the price of home heating oil what it is. Talk about "benefit" in "general terms" is just so much hot air here, and it adds insult to the injury that communities like mine have suffered as a result of the war. 'sides, what does this have to do with booing at a hockey game? Do you think the fans are booing the Military Industrial Complex? Do you think any of them have a political bone in their bodies? Or is it -- my opinion -- just another version of a cross-town sports rivalry?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:03 PM on January 05

Discuss. Thoughtfully, please. Garfield's original instructions for this thread. Just thought I'd toss 'em out there. Thanks for the post, garfield.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:09 PM on January 05

I immediately regretted posting that. Just not the place and in far to simplifed a version. Besides, it is awfully hard to see a benefit in the towns you're talking about it. Benefit truly is the wrong word. And you're right - it has little to do with booing at a hockey game which I feel is more about an inferiority/superiority complex than anything else. Or, as you say, a cross-town sporting rivarly. Got caught up in the mix, here. I feel so noob.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:10 PM on January 05

can't heat their homes more than 50 degrees -- that's fahrenheit Jesus, I hope so. I know Weedy's Canadian and thus not too bright, but Kelvin and Celsius seem unlikely options in that lexical parse tree.

posted by yerfatma at 03:26 PM on January 05

Or is it -- my opinion -- just another version of a cross-town sports rivalry? I really think that is all it is, a sporting rivalry. Booing a rival team is part of the fun of going to a game. I myself hate baseball but had the time of my life when I went to Baltimore and a friend took me to watch the Orioles play the Yankees. The crowd gave the yanks an earful everytime they came back to the dugout. I couldn't help it and had join in myself.

posted by njsk8r20 at 03:36 PM on January 05

Got caught up in the mix, here. I feel so noob. You and me both, brother. The more I think about it, the more I like the "cross-town sports rivalry" analogy (which often has an element of inferiority/superiority complex to it). Not that I was at these games, but it kinda seems like that. I keep thinking about a local basketball rivalry, where Team A was always the scrawny underdog and got beat up on by Team B and Team C. Now Team A's looking a lot stronger, beat up on Team B pretty hard and is challenging Team C, and the fan noise has gotten louder and uglier.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:36 PM on January 05

I like Canada quite a bit, but the only time I've ever enjoyed a baseball game was when I had a few too many at a Twins game and started yelling, "Fifty-four forty or fight!" at the Blue Jays' base coach. Nationality can be just another handy angle from which to heckle, without meaning anything deeper.

posted by cobra! at 04:15 PM on January 05

I like Canada quite a bit, but the only time I've ever enjoyed a baseball game was when I had a few too many at a Twins game and started yelling, "Fifty-four forty or fight!" at the Blue Jays' base coach. That's too funny. Did he have the least idea what you were talking about?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:38 PM on January 05

I don't think so... it was a sparsely-attended game, though, so I know he heard me. If nothing else, the little kids sitting a few seats down enjoyed yelling it with me. You can learn lots of history from drunken baseball fans, it turns out.

posted by cobra! at 04:50 PM on January 05

wow, this thread turned idiotic. Next time fans at a baseball, basketball, or football game boo the opposing team, I'll be sure to look at it from the social-political point of view about the relations between the citizens of those two cities. Christ, next time there's a game on Canadian ice, I'll try to remember that I HAVE to cheer for the US and not for any other team because I am obligated to. Forget about cheering for the under dog! The Americans deserve our cheer!!

posted by mkn at 07:55 PM on January 05

Good god, another thread about politics. Okay, how many times has STLCardinalFan posted and whose feelings has he hurt?

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:24 PM on January 05

Okay, how many times has STLCardinalFan posted and whose feelings has he hurt? 9-0

posted by STLCardinalfan at 09:57 AM on January 06

I like Canada quite a bit, but the only time I've ever enjoyed a baseball game was when I had a few too many at a Twins game and started yelling, "Fifty-four forty or fight!" at the Blue Jays' base coach. lol. I've heard that too at Twins games. I forgot all about that.

posted by tron7 at 10:00 AM on January 06

How Did the U.S. Government Annihilate $1 Trillion of American Wealth? "Our leaders not only annihilated a large portion of Iraq, the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi economy, but they also annihilated American wealth to a surprisingly large degree." ... "What needs to be understood, emphasized, and underscored, what needs to be seen as clearly as possible, are the reality and the mind-boggling size of the wealth destruction that our leaders have caused Americans to bear. It is not believable that most Americans, presented with a choice between spending one trillion dollars or achieving the current status in Iraq, would have chosen to spend that sum. One trillion dollars is 100 million $10,000 bills. It is not believable that 100,000,000 families would have willingly given up $10,000 each for the results so far achieved by the Iraq War. I wonder if 10 million or even 1 million families would have given up half that amount."

posted by the red terror at 10:39 AM on January 06

posted by the red terror at 10:39 AM CST on January 6 I vote biggest trolling post of the year thus far.

posted by tron7 at 11:02 AM on January 06

Tron> How is it that my post is at all a "troll," let alone the "biggest of the year"? A troll is a deliberate inflammatory comment. Some posters above are getting into the "military industrial complex" discussions, and someone even trots out the old, "yoo should get down on yer knees and thank 'merica fer proppin' up the military and savin' yer asses" canard. I merely posted a commentary from an economist that refutes the cliche that war is good for the economy, when in fact it is a massive and wasteful extravagance that nations generally can't afford (which is why wars should be fought as last resorts, not first-strike options). That's not trolling. That's a shared opinion. And let's be thankful the internet still allows such freedom.

posted by the red terror at 01:54 PM on January 06

Maybe troll was the wrong word but to quote the great chicobangs. This is a sports site. Everybody, on all sides of this, please, grind your political axes somewhere else. Perfectly interesting conversations about sports are being ruined by this shit. Take it to Metafilter, fergodsake.

posted by tron7 at 02:26 PM on January 06

A troll is a deliberate inflammatory comment. Yuh-huh. And you dropping that in a thread that's theoretically about sports . . . how's that not a troll again?

posted by yerfatma at 02:29 PM on January 06

Fer cryin' out loud, the thread had already metastasized well before I commented. And you dropping a post about trolling in a thread that's theoretically about sports . . . how's that not a troll again? Pot. Meet. Kettle.

posted by the red terror at 02:36 PM on January 06

Re: to quote the great chicobangs. "This is a sports site. Everybody, on all sides of this, please, grind your political axes somewhere else. Perfectly interesting conversations about sports are being ruined by this shit." Everything is political. Your preference to root for Rangers or Celtic -- political. The price you have to pay for season tickets in a stadium that has already been financed by public tax dollars -- political. Cuba being barred from competing in the World Baseball Classic -- political. As soon as you even discuss anything outside of actual events that transpired on the field of play, you have entered into the world of politics. Politics is about making choices. When you talk about Bud Selig or Gary Bettman -- indeed, any sports administration official, or any social and/or cultural connection to power -- you are embroiled in politics, whether you like it or not. I don't want to impose my political views on anybody, but I fail to see the advantage of sticking my head in the dirt and pretending it doesn't exist all around us, either. What mystifies me is why so many supposedly free & independent thinkers believe otherwise, and expect everyone else to shut up for their censorious benefit. And as far as "perfectly interesting conversations about sports being ruined" by politics, that's nonsense. Conversations about sports that are ruined are more often spoiled by ad hominem attacks and puerile posters behaving like infants in a sandbox than they ever are about politics or religion. Internet users and newspaper readers always have an available option to ignore reading material that doesn't interest them. That's as simple as politics gets. Even pet dogs and cats understand this -- if they don't like something, they don't feel obliged to stick it out, they simply retreat and do something else or take a nap. People should follow suit. If a cat with a comparative human IQ of 20 can understand this, surely kids with a reading grade level of three should be equally capable.

posted by the red terror at 02:57 PM on January 06

Don't take it so personal. And how does "deliberate inflammatory" apply to my comment?

posted by yerfatma at 03:39 PM on January 06

red terror, you're not wrong, but there is a point where you leave the sports world behind and get into the same crap you can see anywhere else. A rooting preference or a stadium financing issue is still a sporting issue. What happened between Castro & JFK & Krushchev in 1961, or the current U.S. government policy about corporate welfare or anything else, or what's happening on the ground in Baghdad (unless it's a soccer tournament or something similar), is not, especially when you shoehorn it into a discussion about something else altogether. My problem with this political threadjacking is that you're killing what were still perfectly good, living conversations. We were actually talking about something else before you barged in and started trolling. I even agree with most of your points, but -- this thread was about the fans at the World Junior Hockey Championships. There may be issues around that, but these ain't them. You helped to kill a perfectly interesting discussion that was about (again) the fans at the World Junior Hockey Championships, which wasn't over. Now it is, because you've spent all morning grinding an axe that has no place on a site that's at least primarily about sports. Even pet dogs and cats understand this -- there's a place for shitting, and a place for eating. You're getting them mixed up, and from what you've said, you're apparently doing it on purpose. And that, even a stupid naive indoor declawed inbred idiot lapdog like me knows, is trolling. Cut it out.

posted by chicobangs at 03:53 PM on January 06

Does the "D" in D-train stand for "derail"?- No it's a nickname I got because I run right over people in football. My name's Denny, and so my friends nicknamed me that because i'm like a train running over people.

posted by D-train at 05:22 PM on January 06

Booo! : Discuss. Thoughtfully, please. posted by garfield to Hockey at 5:04 PM CST (78 comments total) There has been alot of talk about the boo birds. I think it is important to point out the distinction between America (the country, the policies) and Americans (the people). And I think the booing purely relates to the former, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the latter. posted by garfield at 5:21 PM CST on January 4 This is how this thread started.

posted by STLCardinalfan at 06:11 PM on January 06

I wonder if President Bush plays golf inside the White House..... /goes back to wandering aimlessly around his house.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:02 PM on January 06

We were actually talking about something else before you barged in and started trolling. chico, did someone poke you in the eye with a stick and blind you, or are you just selectivelyignoring all of STLCardinalfan's remarks and jumping on red terror? Some were making an attempt to actually talk about something else; others had long since gone where red terror only followed.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:42 PM on January 06

Acquired in the off-season, Joe Tasca of team OffWingOpinion puts some points on the board.

posted by garfield at 10:42 AM on January 07

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