FanDuel - WFBC

November 06, 2005

Trash May Be Linked To Vikings Boat Party: It's a good thing these pro football players are paid so well, because it obviously costs a lot to throw a party of this magnitude. Listen to newscast link, and it sounds as if a few prostitutes couldn't make the trip to this party because of a similar football party going on in Atlanta.

posted by dyams to football at 07:31 AM - 60 comments

Slow football year in Minnesota, huh?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:34 AM on November 06

Slow year in Minnesota media too. They're following players around and sniffing through their garbage? "5 EYEWITNESS NEWS obtained exclusive access to the trash - and the information it revealed." Exclusive access? Get away from this dumpster, Channel 2! Those used condoms are ours!

posted by rcade at 08:40 AM on November 06

So the Minnesota media is supposed to only walk up to Bryant McKinnie, ask him about this situation, hear him say, "It never happened. I wasn't there. I don't know what you're talking about"? They uncovered evidence that points to the lies they (players involved) made about the "party" and that's ridiculous lengths for a journalist to take? If this was taking place with the Patriots or Colts, would it still be seen as "slow"? Maybe it's only seen as that because the Vikings suck. When the discipline comes down about everything, maybe then it won't be so "slow."

posted by dyams at 09:19 AM on November 06

This story was idiotic when initially reported. Nothing's changed,.

posted by YukonGold at 09:23 AM on November 06

The media can do what it likes, but making the story about their own dumpster diving just demonstrates the lengths to which they will stoop. If I'm a journalist abandoning any pretense of dignity in pursuit of a news story, I would use the names found in the trash and run a story with interviews of those people. I wouldn't inventory the garbage and declare an exclusive. After all, what new information did it produce? The players hired high-priced escorts from Atlanta and they do it every year for rookies. The headline shows they weren't even sure it was related to the party: "Trash may be linked to Vikings boat party" (emphasis mine).

posted by rcade at 10:10 AM on November 06

What UConnGold said. It seems to me that what constitutes "ridiculous lengths" depends greatly on the significance of the story in the first place. These lengths are ridiculous.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:12 AM on November 06

What's up with football players. Are they so ugly that they can't get free groupies - like baseball and hockey players?

posted by drevl at 10:22 AM on November 06

This story was idiotic when initially reported. Nothing's changed. So, you think the Vikings should get a pass on hiring and using prostitutes, illegal drugs and possibly harrassing the staff of the cruise boat because they're the Vikings, or becauseno one should be investigated for such activities? And when the franchise asks for public money to build a new stadium, you think this isn't germane to the public debate in the scope of the kind of employees the city would be partially underwriting?

posted by wfrazerjr at 10:26 AM on November 06

Individuals in the public eye getting away with solicitation of prostitutes and performing sex acts in front of unwilling employees of a charter boat? I was under the impression this could be seen as illegal. No problem (or story) there. I'm sure everyone would feel the same if your own daughter worked on a boat all year then came home saying she had to unwillingly endure an orgy during one of her shifts. Most of you would probably only ask her if she got any autographs. It just goes to show what society has been conditioned to blindly accept as justifiable behavior by high-paid, privileged athletes. Very sad.

posted by dyams at 10:27 AM on November 06

I find the whole situation including most of the comments here, disgusting!

posted by daddisamm at 10:51 AM on November 06

Its actually pretty simple here,Moss is gone now so they need to find other outlets to spend there time on,unfortinately its the whole team now instead of just one player.Stuff like this goes on all the time in every sport but it is not usally seen because of the media centering there attention on the mouthy and obnoxious players. Now if Moss was still in Minnesota do you think we would be hearing and reading bout this.......I would have to say no,what we would be hearing is Moss this and Moss that. I dont think this story is ridiculous,I think it is great that stuff like this has come to life,now people can see what things are really bout. I played college ball for 3 years and the stuff I seen at a college level was unreal.I can just imagine what goes on in the pros where it is pretty much a free for all. Many people have tried to show the dark side to sports but unfortinately they were shortly forgotten and its a shame.

posted by Deuce at 11:05 AM on November 06

Most of you would probably only ask her if she got any autographs. This is a perfect illustration of the weakness of both the article and your argument. Not once, not ever, not anywhere did the article talk about the issue of harassment of "unwilling employees of a charter boat". It talked about dumpster-diving for "evidence" of a wild party at which football players may have had a different kind of hired help. What evidence there is that such hired help was on board, would also seem to indicate that said hired help knew exactly what they'd be getting into and were in full agreement with it. The situation of possible harassment of boat employees is a separate one that was never addressed in this article; nor, by implication, was it in any way the focus of the "investigation" that is the article's subject. Now, I'm no fan of sexual harassment, and I have a more stringent view than most on what constitutes stepping over the line in this regard. But as someone who's very much opposed to sexual harassment, I don't think that you do the cause any good by conflating it with a consensual situation. If you, wfrazerjr, daddisamm or 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS want to raise a stink about harassment, then you're going to have to do a much more diligent job of separating out the harassment from the wild party. If it's the wild party per se that you want to object to, or the solicitation of prostitutes, then do that. I'm not a major fan of people who solicit prostitutes either, since I tend to think that prostitution is not a career that's usually freely chosen from a reasonable set of options. On the other hand, I don't think that working at Wal-Mart is, either, so I think I'd have to stay off the bandwagon of those who condemn prostitution but still shop at Wal-Mart.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:23 AM on November 06

If this was taking place with the Patriots or Colts, would it still be seen as "slow"? The reason that this is not happening in New England or Indy is because these teams employ higher class citizens. (Or they have a better team of people covering it up.) Also Robert Kraft privately financed one of the best and most state of the art type staduims. Maybe if the owner/s of the Vikings were as business savvy as Kraft is, he would not have to ask for public funding. if your own daughter worked on a boat all year then came home saying she had to unwillingly endure an orgy during one of her shifts Would I be pissed if my daughter had to be subjected to such ignorance? Yes. I think it is horrible, but probably more common than everyone thinks. In all, I think it was bad judgement. Other than that, I think that everyone should get over it and let the team be. Deal with it when it does come time for publicly funding a new staduim and let the owner/s privately fund it. And about the football players not being able to use groupies, would you really want those idiots following you around afterwards? At least they used proffessionals.

posted by grabofsky74 at 11:26 AM on November 06

Pull up the link, look to the right side of the screen, click the item that says "Boat Crew Member Propositioned, Says Aunt" and then watch the video. Also, as mentioned earlier, prostitution is still illegal, no matter the other career "options" a person has.

posted by dyams at 11:30 AM on November 06

The workers told Hennepin County sheriff's deputies they had to step over and around players and naked women engaged in sex acts on the floor, said their attorney, Stephen Doyle of Wayzata. You do that at your job, lbb? If you're a young woman and a football player is getting a blowjob or fucking in clear view and you can't leave the boat, what else would you call it?

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:34 AM on November 06

Well said wfrazerjr........

posted by daddisamm at 11:46 AM on November 06

bravo, wfrazerjr. Hey lbb, before you go off on a tyrade, do a little checking first.

posted by grabofsky74 at 11:57 AM on November 06

You do that at your job, lbb? If you're a young woman and a football player is getting a blowjob or fucking in clear view and you can't leave the boat, what else would you call it? Are you being intentionally obtuse, wfjr? Go back and read what I wrote about sexual harassment; now, paraphrase it back to me. Of course that situation constitutes harassment of some kind, sexual harassment by most definitions (note that there is no uniform legal definition in the United States; I can give you plenty of chapter and verse on that if you really want it). But that situation was never mentioned, suggested, or alluded to in the article in the link. There is nothing to indicate that the author(s) of the article had any interest whatsoever in dealing with the issue of sexual harassment. They just went dumpster-diving for naughty bits. The article mentioned finding women's names and doing some EYEWITNESS NEWS investigation of prostitutes with a national clientele. It said nothing whatsoever about the issue of sexual harassment of employees. Then tell me exactly what your agenda is here. Is it to get rid of all naughtiness? To stop sexual harassment? To stop prostitution or solicitation of same? Tell me just how you think you can pursue your varied agendas if you stick all the issues into one big stewpot and stir with a canoe paddle. 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS comes off looking like a bunch of dimwits in this article. If you want to pursue the noble goal of eliminating sexual harassment, I am suggesting that you would do best to avoid the appearance of a dimwit and take on a strategy that's a little more sophisticated than dumpster-diving for naughty things. And while you're at it, you might want to consider not alienating people who are on the same side as you. Make sense?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:15 PM on November 06

But that situation was never mentioned, suggested, or alluded to in the article in the link. LBB, did you even bother to watch the news clip I mentioned above (that's included in the same link). If you did, you'd probably stop saying the news people involved didn't address it in their story.

posted by dyams at 12:40 PM on November 06

LBB, did you even bother to watch the news clip I mentioned above (that's included in the same link). If you did, you'd probably stop saying the news people involved didn't address it in their story. It's not in the link, dyams. It's not part of that article. If you wanted to talk about it, why didn't you link to it in the first place? If you wanted to talk about sexual harassment, how come you didn't mention it in your FPP, just talked about prostitution? And how come you keep refusing to address my point that there are two separate issues here, even though both allegedly happened at the same party -- and that conflating those issues makes it more difficult to deal coherently with either?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:26 PM on November 06

I create the original post "Trash May Be Linked To Vikings Boat Party" and, by clicking on that link, right there on that very page, part of that link, part of that story, right in plain site, about 3/4 of an inch from the story, is the "Boat Crew Member Propositioned, Says Aunt" link, that, when accessed, tells of a employee being exposed to the specific behavior that constitutes sexual harrassment. Do I have to create a response or link to every single element of this stupid party that was wrong or illegal? Do I need to make another link and post regarding why they may utilize hollowed-out cigars? There are many wrong, disgusting components to this story, and your original post saying, "Slow football year in Minnesota, huh?" shows you only want to brush aside and trivialize this behavior, no matter what angle anyone who posts wishes to take.

posted by dyams at 01:40 PM on November 06

does anyone really give a flying fuck about the vikings or thier romps with hookers on a private boat, lets get over it and move on.

posted by Coach_B at 02:53 PM on November 06

Also I would like to add that as a die hard Eagles fan I hope they put T.O. on the bench and leave him thier for the next five years of his more than adequate contract. I was pissed when they got him and I can not wait for him to be history.

posted by Coach_B at 02:58 PM on November 06

I would ask: why so many of you are pissed that such a party went down? I mean, you all sound so personally offended - and sheltered. There is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing spectacular, special or terrifying about any of this. No one was shot, no one was raped, hell, no one even seems to have fallen out of the boat. The owner's exercised their right to not have these customers return and the police made no arrests. So move the fuck along - this deserves nothing but trivializing. You guys are imagining the worst case scenarios based on the reporting of a bunch of people who not only dumpster-dive to find naughty-bits, but publically celebrate the activity as some kind of badge of jounalistic honor. For the love of Pete - you're willing to put your trust into that? Bunch of millionaires hired some hookers and went boating. If you think that's special in any way, you need to get out more. dyams - out with it - what is so bad about this? You clearly have some kind of axe to grind - whether it be the spoiled nature of athletes (and remember kids - these are the same guys praying on the field before the game), the hypocrisy of the system, or the fact that some people don't share your hang ups, I'm interested.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:18 PM on November 06

Forget it. It's all fine. Let's get back to 350 posts about T.O. saying stupid shit. They're athletes, let'em fuck whoever they want, wherever they want, in front of whomever they want, and smoke and ingest every known chemical they can get their hands on. I guess if you have the expectation that laws be followed, you lead a sheltered life. Don't even bother with the next "Mike Tyson Accused of Rape" or "Female Accuses Kobe Bryant of Rape" story. They're athletes. Laws and decency don't apply. Stupid story. I stand corrected. And Coach B, maybe you could tell by the link's title what it was about. If you don't like it, don't read it (or, maybe, learn to read).

posted by dyams at 06:51 PM on November 06

Here's my take. Was it dumb to engage in this type of activity in public? Yes. Should the crew of the boat and the general population be disgusted and/or outraged at that conduct? Yes. Should anyone care that pro athletes or anyone for that matter may or may not have engaged in consensual sex with a "ladies of the evening"? Not in the slightest. For all the bible thumpers and/or the law and order crowd here's my advice, get over it. The sooner the government and for that matter everyone else stops dealing with what consenting adults do with their bodies we'll all be better off.

posted by Fade222 at 07:14 PM on November 06

I don't think anyone is seeking to trivialize the allegations that sex acts were committed on that boat in view of its crew, or that drugs might have been used. What's being trivialized is the TV station that found a news story in an inventory of one athlete's trash. Do I have to create a response or link to every single element of this stupid party that was wrong or illegal? No, but if you feel like the story's important, I think the story about the propositioned crew member's a better one than the dumpster diving. That's a minor nit, though. One of the nice things about arguments like this is we get into the wider issue.

posted by rcade at 07:23 PM on November 06

Yes - but laws and decency are two very different things. And I think it's patently unfair and absolutely interesting that you would associate the Tyson and Bryant rape cases with this - when such a comparison is terribly irresponsible. Your reactions, and that of a lot of others who seem to wish that people act to the standards that you set, as opposed to the law, make this story far from stupid. If you're offended, that's one thing. I've got nothing against you having a personal abhorence to this kind of activity - myself, I'm not really interested in hooker boat parties either, or watching my coworkers slam hookers on the deck of a private party, but I don't see a lot wrong with it. Certainly not a great deal of illegal activity that's anyone else's business. So far there might be some evidence of pot being smoked - but I fail to see where you can make the leap to 'smoke and ingest every known chemical that they can get their hands on.' It seems you've decided these people are all criminals and the rest of the universe should catch up to this absolute truth. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. Especially when the dumpster-diving Minnesotan media is involved. Besides, the biggest crime here may have been the selection of the charter. Though I would agree that these guys are likely not the most ideal folks to invite over to a party.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:50 PM on November 06

My point is that this kind of behavior is nothing new. If any of you have been involved in a sport and been a member of a high level team you will know that this shit happens all the time. This is not by any means an isolated incident. The big crime here is the stupidity of the Vikings to get caught doing it and the clubs front office's inability to cover it up. I know this sounds horrible and unethical and I hate to burst all of the bubbles of you sports fans who think this shit does not happen every day but it does. Hookers and drugs are common place in all pro sports. Finally for dyams, I in no way personally attacked you so your little comment about my reading ability was uncalled for. That being said I do not hold grudges or take other peoples stupidity personally so you are forgiven.

posted by Coach_B at 09:36 PM on November 06

If any of you have been involved in a sport and been a member of a high level team you will know that this shit happens all the time. That does it, I gotta take up pro curling STAT.

posted by dusted at 09:55 PM on November 06

If any of you have been involved in a sport and been a member of a high level team you will know that this shit happens all the time. And Coach B would know.

posted by tron7 at 11:46 PM on November 06

Just because "this shit happens all of the time" doesnt make it any less terrible. I have no illusions of the behavior of pro athletes. Heck you dont have to be a pro athlete or rich to be a sexual deviant. It personally makes me ill. All behavior, of this type does. is screw up people's lives. IIt really doesnt make a difference if you have a sex party on a boat or in private, its still wrong. Is anything good coming out of this adventure? No-nothing good comes from deviant sexual behavior. Before some of you go there, I am not being holier than thou here. I have done things that I aint proud of. But that between me and the man upstairs. Other Christians have made similar mistakes and they have paid a high price after the fact.. Deviant sexual shouldnt be glorified, celebrated or tolerates. People needs to wise up and realize that it only causes more problems. So have fun trivializing this "Party" and other behavior like it. Its kind of fun following the discussion, in a sad sort of way.

posted by daddisamm at 12:30 AM on November 07

Just because "this shit happens all of the time" doesnt make it any less terrible. But what "it" are you talking about, daddisamm? If you want to solve a problem, you have to identify it and deal with it uniquely, not just rail about "all that bad stuff". Why is that so hard to understand? Heck you dont have to be a pro athlete or rich to be a sexual deviant. It personally makes me ill. All behavior, of this type does. is screw up people's lives. Again, what are you talking about? "Sexual deviant" is a phrase that has been used to refer to everything from people who deviate from some arbitrary, absolute moral standards; to those who are outside the statistical norm; to those whose practices are harmful to others; and to those who perform a sex act that is against the law. What is your definition, and why should anybody else care?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:58 AM on November 07

God's rules for sex.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:40 AM on November 07

I lenjoyed the journalist's attempt to appear naive about what ganga looks like. "...No one has been able to confirm for us the origin, nature, or use of the dank green vegetation found within hollowed-out cigars. Judy, back to you in the studio."

posted by garfield at 08:54 AM on November 07

God's rules for sex. I don't know, does it mean God is voyeuristic or like he joins in...because either way its kind of weird.

posted by chris2sy at 09:03 AM on November 07

I don't find it that weird. It's no more arbitrary than any number of prescribed/proscribed human behaviors. Sure, it doesn't make sense -- no anal sex because it's got a greater risk of disease transmission, but you're not concerned that you might find some other ways to swap viruses over the course of, say, 40 years of unprotected sex? And it does, I think, represent a cherrypicking approach to scripture. But weird? I'd say it's typical.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:07 AM on November 07

lbb, we've been talking about this for almost a month now through a pair of FPPs. You commented three time in the original post. Here's something from the original story: "Now they're still 40 minutes out, and they're getting frightened," Doyle said. "Some of the Vikings are yelling at the waiters and waitresses and wanting drinks faster and trying to take over parts of the bar, trying to pour their own drinks. It's just really bizarre, bad, terrible behavior. "Like I said, these kids are petrified. They're afraid for their own safety. There are people doing sexual acts with toys in the middle of the floor. They're on a boat here, having to walk around and serve a drink, afraid to stop serving drinks because they're afraid that people will hurt them. It's just really unacceptable what they did the arrogance and the rudeness and all of those things combined. "They get them into the dock and eventually get off the boat. We're talking about a scene with used condoms on the boats laying around, handy wipes used by the women laying around, drinks thrown and poured in places. It's amazing." If you can't remember from one story to the next, I'm sorry, but this aspect of it has been there from the start. What evidence there is that such hired help was on board, would also seem to indicate that said hired help knew exactly what they'd be getting into and were in full agreement with it. Could you tell me where the hell you drew this information from? Are you talking about the prostitutes? Because I'm talking about the crew of the goddamned boat! If you want the prostitution and the drug use separated from the sexual harrassment, fine, separate it. Here -- I'll do it for you: So, you think the Vikings should get a pass on hiring and using prostitutes, illegal drugs and possibly harrassing the staff of the cruise boat because they're the Vikings, or because no one should be investigated for such activities? Are you being intentionally obtuse, wfjr? Just answer the question! Is it okay for people to be fucking on the floor under your feet while you're trying to work? Now, I'm no fan of sexual harassment, and I have a more stringent view than most on what constitutes stepping over the line in this regard. No, apparently you don't.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:49 AM on November 07

Just answer the question! Pot, kettle, black! Why didn't you answer either of the two questions that I asked you? What is your agenda: to rail against prostitution, or to rail against sexual harassment? And why do you expect everyone to feel the same way about both of those two things? Could you tell me where the hell you drew this information from? Are you talking about the prostitutes? Because I'm talking about the crew of the goddamned boat! Yes, wfjr, obviously I was talking about the prostitutes. But I don't blame you for being confused; that's what will happen if you compose an out-of-context pastiche that's cut-and-pasted from several different posts. Try to just straight-up address the post next time; it'll be a lot simpler that way. Now, I'm no fan of sexual harassment, and I have a more stringent view than most on what constitutes stepping over the line in this regard. No, apparently you don't. How would you know? You haven't asked me what I think about it; you've told me. You're both arrogant and wrong.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:14 PM on November 07

I'll answer something I missed in Weedy's post earlier. I would ask: why so many of you are pissed that such a party went down? There is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing spectacular, special or terrifying about any of this. No one was shot, no one was raped, hell, no one even seems to have fallen out of the boat. Bunch of millionaires hired some hookers and went boating. If you think that's special in any way, you need to get out more. NOW HEAR THIS ... NOW HEAR THIS ... I don't care about the use of prostitutes and/or illegal drugs by the Vikings in and of itself. I do care about: *the crew of the boat being forced to be an unwitting part of it *these being employees of an industry likely to ask for government handouts at some point and being passed off as A-1 citizens and beacons for the community *the media being skewered for following this story That's it. Nothing else. Any more questions about my agenda?

posted by wfrazerjr at 01:17 PM on November 07

[The players are] being passed off as A-1 citizens and beacons for the community When did that happen?

posted by cl at 01:27 PM on November 07

How come when all that crazy stuff happened when I was Bartending, noone went through those people's trash?? First of all: I agree, some guys went and partied. Who cares. Girls got paid to have sex. Big Deal. Now for those who like to claim that these people were trapped in a seabound orgy... First of all, there were crew/staff areas. You say "F this", you go back in the Kitchen, Storage Area, Employee break room... You're not forced to walk through an orgy. "Oh, I might lose my crappy $1 more than minimum job, best to just walk through it." If you're selling out your standards for (pitiful) money, the hookers should be looking down at you. Where was the "Manager" or Captain of this boat....? If what the players were doing was so unacceptible and unexpected, why didn't someone stop the cruise? Sorry, The people who rented the boat knew just what they rented it for, there were at least "Strippers" going to be present, and they knew that. I'd be willing to betb that they've done this for years (as alluded to in the article) and that this is no different than last year's party. Quite frankly, If I had a couple of Million bucks, I'd think there was something wrong with a world where I couldn't use that money to buy sex from a super-model or a skank.

posted by LostInDaJungle at 01:36 PM on November 07

LBB, I'm still kind of shocked you would compare people who work at Wal-Mart with prostitutes. What are you saying, that the old lady who smiles and says "welcome to Wal-Mart" used to turn tricks until she got to old? That in order to maintain her heroin addiction, the cashier applied at Wal-Mart the same day she went downtown to find a pimp? I think there is a sense of hopelessness associated with your typical prostitute, to compare hard working people trying to earn an honest paycheck with criminals is uncalled for. Perhaps my sense of humor just took the day off? Hey when are we going to start arguing that all those white folks in Minnesota are just trying to get some rich black guys in trouble?

posted by tselson at 01:39 PM on November 07

Nice work with the Hold Steady lyrics!

posted by emoeby at 02:39 PM on November 07

Yes! An obscure The Hold Steady reference.

posted by tron7 at 03:28 PM on November 07

Unfortunately, once a band gets name-checked on Lost it's probably too late for obscure references.

posted by yerfatma at 05:37 PM on November 07

LBB, I'm still kind of shocked you would compare people who work at Wal-Mart with prostitutes. I didn't. What I said was as follows: I'm not a major fan of people who solicit prostitutes either, since I tend to think that prostitution is not a career that's usually freely chosen from a reasonable set of options. On the other hand, I don't think that working at Wal-Mart is, either, so I think I'd have to stay off the bandwagon of those who condemn prostitution but still shop at Wal-Mart. In other words, I compared the two situations as examples of employment where there is likely to be a little (or a lot) of exploitation going on. Make sense now?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:42 PM on November 07

NOW HEAR THIS ... NOW HEAR THIS ... I don't care about the use of prostitutes and/or illegal drugs by the Vikings in and of itself. I do care about: *the crew of the boat being forced to be an unwitting part of it I think I have already made it more than sufficiently clear that I agree with you on this. *these being employees of an industry likely to ask for government handouts at some point and being passed off as A-1 citizens and beacons for the community This is confusing too many issues for me. A nuclear power plant is "likely to ask for government handouts at some point", too, but that doesn't entitle me to scrutinize the private behavior of every janitor up at Vermont Yankee. As for "A-1 citizens and beacons of the community", that's in the eye of the beholder. Caveat emptor: if you put 'em on a pedestal (I don't), when AFAIK they never asked to be, you're liable for your own disappointment. *the media being skewered for following this story By a buncha SpoFites? So what? I don't see where they're being "skewered" by anyone that matters, and I reserve my right to skewer 'em. I've worked in a newsroom and I won't pretend to respect a member of the media who, in my opinion, is just plain being lazy, trying to manufacture scandal or controversy rather than doing the work it takes to come up with a real story.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:48 PM on November 07

I think there is a sense of hopelessness associated with your typical prostitute, to compare hard working people trying to earn an honest paycheck with criminals is uncalled for. Unfortunately, "hopelessness" and "hard working people" are not mutually exclusive. For a lighter view, check these out.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 07:28 PM on November 07

Great link Texan. Oh God how I do hate Wal Mart.

posted by Fade222 at 08:30 PM on November 07

Again, what are you talking about? "Sexual deviant" is a phrase that has been used to refer to everything from people who deviate from some arbitrary, absolute moral standards; to those who are outside the statistical norm; to those whose practices are harmful to others; and to those who perform a sex act that is against the law. What is your definition, and why should anybody else care? Well lbb-i dont expect anybody to care. I am just stating how I feel. For somebody who doesnt care how I feel, you went out your way to may sure that I know.. You knew what I meant by using the term "deviant sexual behavior." It doesnt shock me to hear that you use to work in a "newsroom". You are really good a twisting a person's words around.

posted by daddisamm at 02:33 AM on November 08

It doesnt shock me to hear that you use to work in a "newsroom". You are really good a twisting a person's words around. Just stop. The quotes around "newsroom", the suggestion every media outlet is in the business of spinning peoples' words, etc. That's not an argument, it's an admission.

posted by yerfatma at 06:17 AM on November 08

That's right, l_b_b is part of the liberal media elite, and in her spare time, she pulls the wings off of angels.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:45 AM on November 08

Actually, lbb, that clarification wasn't directed at you -- I just felt like yelling. Also, sorry for overstepping the bounds earlier. I don't know your complete views on sexual harassment, and it was presumptious of me to say what I said. As for the pedestal, I don't either, but it's generally the city government and the organization itself that says, "Lookit these fine boys! They're great for our city!" when a bond needs floating for a new facility. In my eyes, associating yourself with a group of people likely to fly in prostitutes for sex parties is a pretty bad idea. I don't see where they're being "skewered" by anyone that matters, and I reserve my right to skewer 'em. I didn't say you didn't have a right to skewer those who went dumpster-diving -- I said I think it's horseshit. I've worked in a newsroom and I won't pretend to respect a member of the media who, in my opinion, is just plain being lazy, trying to manufacture scandal or controversy rather than doing the work it takes to come up with a real story. You're a reporter and you get a phone call saying two Vikings possibly involved in a sex scandal and who have said nothing illegal or illicit took place are out dumping trash in a remote location, and you're not going to follow up on that? Hello! Where exactly is your journalist going to have a better opportunity to find out the truth? The Viking PR office? And if you're arguing that it's a non-story ... why? People may have broken the law, and then lied about it. That's not news?

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:46 AM on November 08

wfrazerjr, I may be in a tiny minority on this, but I take a dim view of "sex scandals" in general. Sexual harassment is one of the few exceptions; significant hypocrisy that harms other people is another, as when a politician goes on a fire-and-brimstone vice campaign but then is found sneaking around to peep shows or something. Otherwise, I find that too many of them involve situations where, as I see it, there are no victims -- or none that need to be publically identified. If someone cheats on their spouse, for instance, I don't think it's the public's business. Sure, it'll sell a lot of newspapers, or get a lot of viewers, or whatever...but if the public isn't harmed, I don't think the public needs to know. As for the stadium issue, I dunno if there is one with the Vikings. If someone tries to appeal for public money for a Vikings stadium on the grounds that they're wonderful upstanding citizens, I say let's burn that bridge when we come to it.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:08 AM on November 08

As for the stadium issue, I dunno if there is one with the Vikings. If someone tries to appeal for public money for a Vikings stadium on the grounds that they're wonderful upstanding citizens, I say let's burn that bridge when we come to it. That's actually the thing that makes Orgy 2005 interesting; the Vikes have been trying to wrangle a stadium out of the state for years, and Wylf's recent purchase of the team seemed to give them a little bit of momentum (there wasn't a lot of public excitement about helping Red McCombs out). When the orgy story broke, it scuttled any chance of a Vikings stadium in the near future, and probably delayed (if not killed) a Twins stadium as well. So wherever you stand on the morality of what went down on the boat (and on the ethics of publicly-financed stadiums), everyone involved in the cruise showed spectacularly poor business sense by not thinking about what exposure would do to their own bottom line.

posted by cobra! at 11:17 AM on November 08

if the public isn't harmed, I don't think the public needs to know. If the Vikings players involved rented this boat and specifically said there will be hookers and sexual acts taking place in full view of everyone, so anyone working this trip, do so with you eyes wide open, then fine. Otherwise, whether you consider it sexual harrassment (which has a lot of gray areas) or just plain indecent exposure, it's still a crime against the employees of this boat charter company. And, if I remember correctly, the trip was cut short when it got out-of-control. The problem, however, is I doubt the owner of the boat company was present on this trip, so it was up to the discretion of various employees about how to proceed when this began happening. Now, not knowing this particular employer or how he deals with employees, etc., I still think it would be pretty awkward for any individual to approach and confront a bunch of drunk, stoned pro football players regarding their behavior. So, if the Vikings (or any pro sports team) rents the back room of a restaurant for a party, it's to be assumed (and expected) that they'll be bringing in whores and whatever else, so it's up to the individuals who own the party venue to only employ individuals for this event who don't mind being exposed to it? It just sounds like the idiots should have gone to one of their big houses and held their party there. But that would require common sense.

posted by dyams at 11:26 AM on November 08

Unfortunately, once a band gets name-checked on Lost it's probably too late for obscure references. They were on Lost? Like the TV show? I never would have thought.

posted by tron7 at 12:55 PM on November 08

Hurley asked a girl if she wanted to go to a show with him.

posted by yerfatma at 01:42 PM on November 08

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