This is why the Yankees keep losing. : Its Stienbrenners own fault. He doesn't know anything about sports and should stop knocking his staff that does. They don't make the team, they inherit them. I have to side with Mel.
posted by nyfan to baseball at 05:04 PM - 73 comments
I love George but let the baseball people run the team and shut up until the end of the year. Public ridicule doesn't help these guys. Also I agree with Mel, not classy at all to not acknowledge your own manager for getting your team to the playoffs after a rash of injuries to the pitching staff. Just my opinion.
posted by fade2244 at 05:13 PM on October 12
No big fan of Steinbrenner, but the guy has a great record of putting together teams that win. I think he knows plenty about baseball. His management style is evil, but effective.
posted by Joey Michaels at 05:39 PM on October 12
No big fan of Steinbrenner, but the guy has a great record of putting together teams that win. I think he knows plenty about baseball. His management style is evil, but effective. Or he just has alot of money. I don't think you can buy a world series but i do think you can buy a playoff spot(unless your the mets). Hey Grum, you got any stats to correlate budget to playoff appearances?
posted by tron7 at 05:47 PM on October 12
Grum has stats to correlate anything to everything, and if you argue he has more.
posted by dusted at 05:52 PM on October 12
His middle name may be "stat", or possibly "correlate."
posted by tron7 at 06:07 PM on October 12
You mean "st@", or possibly "correl@e".
posted by DrJohnEvans at 06:22 PM on October 12
Seriously why not offer support to a guy that's led you the promised land multiple times? I know he's had great talent to work with but talent doesn't always get the job done. The fact that he managed to get a team with a entirely decimated pitching staff to the play offs should be commended. I love that George spends his money but he doesn't always spend it on the right people. LET BASEBALL PEOPLE MAKE BASEBALL DESCISIONS, YOU WON'T BE DISSIPOINTED WITH THIS GROUP!
posted by fade2244 at 06:31 PM on October 12
Steinbrenner pays tons of money out and does expect his baseball people to make sure the money's on the guys who will win it all. The guy's not happy right now because not making it out of the first round with the team he signs the checks for is failure. Steinbrenner is always one of the first, if not THE first, to call or give credit to the opposing team and manager. Every statement uttered in New York makes headlines. If Steinbrenner wouldn't have complimented the Angels people would be writing about him being a sore loser. Torre's not a moron. He knows who the owner is and what comes along with managing the Yankees. Like Kevin Kennedy just said, "With the Yankees, it's all about winning." That's it. This is professional sports, not little league.
posted by dyams at 07:12 PM on October 12
I hear ya dyams but this season was a little bit crazy or was i blinded by media coverage?
posted by fade2244 at 07:18 PM on October 12
Yup George and the Yankees will try to keep the spot light on them for the remainder of the playoffs. Yankee fans, you didnt make it this year get over it....
posted by daddisamm at 07:35 PM on October 12
this season was a little bit crazy or was i blinded by media coverage? The season WAS crazy, but extremely entertaining and exciting. Yankee fans, you didnt make it this year get over it.... I'm a Yankee fan and I am over it. I was over it 30 seconds after the final out against the Angels. The big question is what will you find to hate for the next six months?
posted by dyams at 07:42 PM on October 12
People who can't fight back.
posted by yerfatma at 07:46 PM on October 12
I just want to know why no one likes baseball as much as everyone seems to hate the yankees. I personally just want to watch a good baseball game. If my team is in it - great - if not I still like to watch a good game. I think you all have forgotten your true love for the sport with as much complaining you do about teams who aren't even in the playoffs. There are 2 really great games on tonight and one of those 4 teams is going to win it all in 2005. If your only in it for your team than shutup when your team is done. If you truely enjoy the game of baseball talk about the teams that are still in it.
posted by skydivemom at 07:55 PM on October 12
Here's my comment about the teams that are still in it. The White Sox just made a HUGE baserunning blunder (trying to score from third with no outs). Vlad missing two cutoff men ended up getting them the first out of the inning.
posted by dyams at 08:01 PM on October 12
He got greedy with the baserunning. He should have stayed on 3rd with no outs and could have easily scored on just about anything but an infield popup.
posted by skydivemom at 08:05 PM on October 12
dyams - I guess you and I are the only ones here who really love baseball cause everyone else seems to have shut up.
posted by skydivemom at 08:36 PM on October 12
I just can't watch and type at the same time.
posted by justgary at 08:41 PM on October 12
You seemed to be able to do that last night justgary! Just kidding with you.
posted by skydivemom at 08:49 PM on October 12
Washburn should have been pulled one batter ago.
posted by skydivemom at 08:55 PM on October 12
I'm a Yankee fan and I am over it. I was over it 30 seconds after the final out against the Angels. The big question is what will you find to hate for the next six months? I dont hate the Yankees, I just get tired of hearing about them all of the time..
posted by daddisamm at 08:56 PM on October 12
So if you dont love the Yankess, you dont love baseball? wow
posted by daddisamm at 08:58 PM on October 12
Where did you read that. I like the cubs and my AL team is the red sox. I don't like the yankees but I never said you have to love the yankees to like baseball. I just said... I just want to know why no one likes baseball as much as everyone seems to hate the yankees. I personally just want to watch a good baseball game. Where you were reading I have no idea. Good gravy he got me talking about the yankees again. I am going back to the game tonight with the teams that might actually win the World Series.
posted by skydivemom at 09:04 PM on October 12
If your only in it for your team than shutup when your team is done. If you truely enjoy the game of baseball talk about the teams that are still in it. nyfan posted about a longtime Yankee coach leaving. granted, it's not the most interesting link ever posted here, but it's hardly a violation of the posting guidelines. there was a post about a week ago regarding the Tigers' managerial changes. since they didn't even make the post-season, is that wrong too? if the subject of thread doesn't interest you, you are under no obligation to read it. but please don't tell the rest of us to shut up. on preview: So if you dont love the Yankess, you dont love baseball? daddisamm, i don't think anyone here said that. if you don't like hearing about the Yankees or Red Sox, why do you consistently take part in those discussions, if only to say how much hate hearing about them all the time.
posted by goddam at 09:07 PM on October 12
dyams - I guess you and I are the only ones here who really love baseball cause everyone else seems to have shut up. The thread wasn't about baseball, or love of baseball, or who really loves baseball; it was about the comments of Mel Stottlemyre, who oughta know, regarding how Joe Torre was treated by George Steinbrenner. In that context, all the "I hate the yankees" "why do you hate the yankees?" "why do you hate people who hate the yankees" comments are a non sequitur, and while I do have thoughts about the original subject of the thread, this digression of yours has, IMO, been done to death. Therefore, I wouldn't read too much into the absence of responses to your challenge.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:11 PM on October 12
You are absolutely right - I have no right to tell anyone to shutup. It is an open forum where anyone can post about whatever they want and I am free to read it or not. For that I apologize. I just love baseball and would like to talk about the postseason that is going on.
posted by skydivemom at 09:12 PM on October 12
fair enough. in the past there have been game threads for the playoffs. maybe we should start doing that again.
posted by goddam at 09:18 PM on October 12
That would be nice. After all our common thread no matter who we route for should be the love of baseball and what better baseball is there then playoff baseball!
posted by skydivemom at 09:24 PM on October 12
I think red sox fans and yankee fans should come together and support a new super team, since everyone hates us anyway ;) The new team would have a ton of fans, and every other fan would despise the new redkees. (and if you put the yankees and sox staff together you'd have a half decent staff) (I stole this idea from jerseygirl) (and with double the fans, imagine the riots we could have...) (and we could lose in the playoffs with a 350,000 dollar payroll)
posted by justgary at 09:27 PM on October 12
Did you forget some zero's in there gary?
posted by jojomfd1 at 09:31 PM on October 12
,000 (thanks...I got confused with the royals payroll.)
posted by justgary at 09:51 PM on October 12
Anybody watching this series? The White Sox just won the game on a major umpire screw-up. Insane.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 10:03 PM on October 12
I can't believe it.
posted by skydivemom at 10:09 PM on October 12
Yea! This game should be in the 10th right now. Umpires screwed up big time! Great pitching tonite, awful way to end it.
posted by skydivedad at 10:09 PM on October 12
posted by justgary at 10:18 PM on October 12
I smell conspiracy by tv advertising to get one more game - just kidding.
posted by skydivemom at 10:23 PM on October 12
Bad call made horrible by the outcome.
posted by dusted at 10:37 PM on October 12
All I know is that now, without the Yankees, I'm interested in the World Series even though my own teams are way out already. The Yankees are whiner bitches. Good for Mel for speaking out against what a self centered prick Steinbrenner is. I'm no Joe Torre fan but to publicly smack him down like that is incredibly lame.
posted by fenriq at 10:58 PM on October 12
I was j/k there gary, but good joke on the back end of that one!
posted by jojomfd1 at 11:34 PM on October 12
great news!! maybe some of these smaller market teams like PITTSBURG,KANSAS CITY will have some breathing room and finally have a chance, instead of the team falling apart year after year. YANKEE fans dont reserve it anyways...its easy to jump on the high road to success! most of them dont know a thing about the game in the first place. its easy to be a yankee fan. lets hope this choke of 2005 is the final downfall of the PIGS. i can see it now..the so-called boss is going to loose his mind and he will slowly rip apart his beloved ballclub. maybe baseball will be baseball again instead of MONEY,MONEY,MONEY!! and these other clubs will shine again on day. SSSEEE YEEAAH YANKEES!
posted by no band waggon at 07:46 AM on October 13
i'm over it i was over it back at the begining of the yearwhen george's hasbeens and antques began thier DL parade!!!!!!
posted by FrankySP at 07:56 AM on October 13
Gardenhire Scocia and all the other farmers are playing by the skin of thier teeth like if they didn't have thunder sticks and hankys where they be the assholes this is to the biggest pig of them all no bal---oops bandwagon
posted by FrankySP at 08:01 AM on October 13
Uh, as far as I'm concerned - the Yankees ARE winning.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:13 AM on October 13
This just goes to show that money doesn't buy champioships. While yes the Yankees continue to make the playoffs year after year, so do the Braves and they don't spend half the money. It is great that the Yankees have an All-Star at every position, the only problem is, half of them are eligible for Social Security. Maybe Cashman should start searching for players who WEREN'T alive when the Beatles were big.
posted by mcstan13 at 08:19 AM on October 13
I think EVERYBODY here missed an obvious point. Besides money, talent, good managers and coaches, ANY championship team must have great chemistry. Great chemistry leads to magical moments in the playoffs, and ultimately championships. Prime example - the 2004 Red Sox. I think the last Yankee team that had this was the 2001 team that lost to Arizona. (So why did they lose? That's the 200 million dollar question I guess?) The past few years, all the hired guns coming in, the vets getting older, and tons of injuries, have killed any chance at good team chemistry these Yankess may have had. Even Bill Gates couln't buy good team chemistry - it's like catching lightning in a bottle.
posted by frank924 at 09:28 AM on October 13
YANKEES HAD TO REALIZE WITH BALTIMORE OUT THEIR CHANCES HAD TO BE DIMINISHED FOR MAKING ANY RUN AT THE RING THIS YEAR. IM GLAD FOR TORRE EVEN THOUGH IM A RED HAT GUY. STEINBRENNER MIGHT JUST BE DUMB ENUFF TO DITCH HIM IF THEY HAD NOT GOTTEN INTO THE PLAYOFFS. I THINK HES A GOOD MANAGER AND DIDNT HAVE ANY FAULT IN EVERY PICK UP THEY MADE TURNIN TO CRAP. A CURSE? MAYBE IT HAS BEEN REVERSED. ASK AROD.
posted by CLEANER at 09:49 AM on October 13
I know you're super psyched to make your point, but you left your caps lock on, sport. Help me, help you.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:56 AM on October 13
" I congratulate the Angels and their manager for the great job they've done". This is the statement causing all the noise! Haven't I heard this same sentence (just change the team name) every year of my life - in baseball, football, basketball? How much more graciously can a person address the team that defeated them? The president will probably get on the phone and "Congratulate the (Cardinals, Astros, White Sox, Angels) and their manager on the great job they've done" once the World Series is over. BIG FREAKING DEAL.
posted by drevl at 09:57 AM on October 13
torre should be manager of the year after leading these shlubs into the post season. I fail to see how this is his or Mel's fault. I love the yanks but i can't stand george and his ridiculous finger pointing. A-rod was a choke artisit and we knew it. Mussina's game has been all fucked since a preseason exhibiton game in japan two years ago! this team is ridiculous and it's only getting worse. I will always root for them but I for one would not mind a re building period.
posted by HATER 187 at 10:49 AM on October 13
Send 'em all down to Columbus! (no, I'm not really kidding)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:53 AM on October 13
I wish the Tigers could "keep losing" the way the Yankees are.
posted by mayerkyl at 11:09 AM on October 13
Great chemistry leads to magical moments in the playoffs, and ultimately championships. Prime example - the 2004 Red Sox. I think the last Yankee team that had this was the 2001 team that lost to Arizona. (So why did they lose? That's the 200 million dollar question I guess?) i couldn't agree with you more, and i like the yankees. money doesn't buy chemistry. i think this is what mel was suggesting in his comments. its not torres fault, or his, or cashmans...its the boss himselfs fault. besides being old, every player is capable of being the leader, the marquee man. there are no role players....i miss the little known but equally important people from back then like paul oneill and scott brosius and such...they werent household names until they started winning. I will always root for them but I for one would not mind a re building period. realistically, i wouldnt either.
posted by nyfan at 11:15 AM on October 13
torre should be manager of the year after leading these shlubs into the post season. "Shlubs" are you kidding me!!! These "shlubs" make more money in a year than the GNP of some small countries. Most of them are All-Stars. Give me a break.
posted by mcstan13 at 11:16 AM on October 13
Mel himself said he decided back in May (when the Yanks were 8 games under 500) to retire at the end of this season. This is before his starters went on the DL. It's before George made the statement that this posting is about. Hey, if a guy wants to retire, let him retire in peace. Bye bye, Mel. Too bad you had to leave with a pocket full of sour grapes. As for Torre, he's been managing the same team for 10 years. Considering his boss is Big Bad George, he has tough skin. He can take anything the Boss throws at him. He doesn't need our pity, or Mel's pity, or Zimmer's pity. He'll continue to cash in his multi-million dollar paycheck until he decides to retire. He's one of the oldest (if not the oldest) manager in the majors, so his retirement won't come as a shock - no matter when it comes.
posted by drevl at 11:24 AM on October 13
there still shlubs if they can't get the fucking job done and they did not. You get overpaid to play baseball well and you can't even do that when it counts (A-Rod) or win some games in the post season (mussina) With the yanks payroll making the playoffs should not be a question. I still love the core of this team (jeter,matsui,rivera) but there are some huge holes that need to be filled. center field, middle relieve, starting pitching. some changes need to be made in bx and i dont think torre or mel are the problems
posted by HATER 187 at 11:43 AM on October 13
Hope you guys get rid of that A-Rod schlub, whether he wins the MVP or not. What a season-killer he is.
posted by yerfatma at 12:16 PM on October 13
money doesn't buy chemistry you're right. winning breeds chemistry (not the other way around). in the beginning of the season when they were losing a lot, you're right, there was no chemistry. but once they got on a roll, it was there. you could see it on the field and in the dug out. you could hear it in the post-game interviews. people are reading way too much into the statement by George. he's congratulated opposing managers before. and as far as Mel leaving, i'm not broken up about it. he had a good run, but i think it's time to get someone else in there. word is that Kerrigan could be the replacement. he came on board in the second half as an advisor. coincidently, Randy got his groove back not long after he arrived. whether he had anything to do with it, who knows. but i like the idea of getting someone new in there. now, if Cashman leaves, that could be a problem. he's one of the few, if not only, guys that have been able to manage George. the likely replacement would be Oppenheimer, who is one of George's Tampa guys. that may or may not be a good thing (either he'll actually get to have some control over operations or he'll just be a yes-man). he was in charge of the amateur draft this year though, and that turned out better than it has in a couple of years, so you never know.
posted by goddam at 12:18 PM on October 13
Grum has stats to correlate anything to everything, and if you argue he has more. His middle name may be "stat", or possibly "correlate." Man, step away from the computer for a night and you all turn on me like jackals! Just for that, I'm taking my calculator and going home! Hrmph!
posted by grum@work at 12:22 PM on October 13
Hope you guys get rid of that A-Rod schlub, whether he wins the MVP or not. What a season-killer he is. ;-) hell, get rid of Mastui and Sheff too. they didn't shit in the ALDS either.
posted by goddam at 12:22 PM on October 13
they didnt shit at all during the alds. that is alot of incontinence.
posted by HATER 187 at 12:37 PM on October 13
That was more of a compliment then a slight, grum. I bow before your statistical prowess.
posted by tron7 at 12:53 PM on October 13
that is alot of incontinence. doh! they didn't "do" shit.
posted by goddam at 12:59 PM on October 13
i noticed listening to the radio here in NYC on THE FAN...all the yankee fans blaming everybody..and saying 'BASEBALL IS OVER FOR ME THIS YEAR NOW'..saying they wont watch the ALCS and NLCS and the WORLD SERIES for that matter.. just goes to show, if yankee fans cant get their way they pout like little children.. those fans will never change...not real baseball fans. i do respect a yankee fan who were around in the lets say 50s and 60s and so on..but todays fan, dont know a thing about the game, and feel like the will be out of place if they are not yankee fans..like yuppies. perfect example..they leave yankee stadium if the yankees are loosing during the 6th or 7th inning and the place empties out just cause the dont get their way. or they are on the cell phone waving to the cameras "look at me..im a yankee fan see!" ..now us REAL baseball fans can enjoy this post season for 2005...let the yankee fans sulk..as usual. good we can do without you
posted by no band waggon at 01:49 PM on October 13
doh...do....shit...what are you getting at there, goddam?:-)
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 02:41 PM on October 13
no band waggon, just what do you do with yourself when you're not taking your canoe paddle and stirring shit? What a tool.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:06 PM on October 13
i do respect a yankee fan who were around in the lets say 50s and 60s Yeah, those johnny-come-lately punks who've only been rooting for the Yanks for twenty or thirty years really piss me off too. Friggin' wagoneers. Or is it 'waggoneers?'
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:13 PM on October 13
Has everyone forgotten that Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, and Jaret Wright were all diabled during the year and that Cashman, Torre, and Stottlemeyer got excellent results from Wang, Chacon, and Small? Finding them and those three to perform as they did was a managerial marvel. Cashman, Torre and Stottlemeyeer should be commended for their performances. The Yankees lost because they obviously didn't want it bad enough. George has to realize that his future lies with youth. I've been a fan since Mickey Owens deropped a third strike in 1941 and remember that Di Maggio, Mantle, Tresh, Jeter,Posada and dozens of others were brought up through the farm system. In fact, it was said that the 1939 Newark Bears could have won the American League pennant. Go easy on the coaches, people.
posted by ancientfan at 04:55 PM on October 13
it seems like hating the yankees is en vouge, funny thing for someone named no ban wagon to do
posted by HATER 187 at 04:58 PM on October 13
George needs to realize that just having a 'Hall of Fame' team doesn't mean that the rest of the league will lay down and give them the series. Has he ever heard of team chemistry???
posted by megyed at 05:13 PM on October 13
ancientfan, you almost got me laughing if only you'd ordered the replacement pitchers better. It should have been Chacon('s), Small, Wang. The Yankees shouldn't have traded Soriano away but I'm glad they did. I'm glad everytime they trade youth for another aging all-star and overpay him too. megyed, to George team chemistry is making sure everyone's got enough steroids in 'em.
posted by fenriq at 05:21 PM on October 13
The Yankees shouldn't have traded Soriano away but I'm glad they did. I'm glad everytime they trade youth for another aging all-star and overpay him too. How does trading the then 27 year old Soriano for the then 29 year old ARod equate to trading youth for an aging all-star?
posted by drevl at 06:48 PM on October 13
What's with all this "chemistry" stuff? If the Yanks and Bosox don't have good chemestry (and obviously by reference, all the other teams do have it) then why is it the Yanks and Bosox made it to the playoffs and most of the "good chemistry" teams have been playing golf the past couple of weeks. Anyone out there old enough to remember the World Champion A's of 72, 73 and 74. Talk about a team with no chemistry. Fist fights used to break out in the locker room. Manager Dick Williams got the heave-ho after winning back to back world series. Where were the "good chemistry" teams while this was going on? And the 1977 Yankees with Munson and Jackson and Billy Martin constantly fighting. Didn't stop them from winning the world series. Don't get me wrong, it's nice when the boys play well together. Giving 100% all the time is the winning formula. Playing kissey-poo is fine, but doesn't win games. Also, noone has yet actually said which Yankees don't get along with which other Yankees. With all his problems, Giambi would seem a likely candidate. However, by all accounts that I've read his fellow Yanks have supported his comeback.
posted by drevl at 07:24 PM on October 13
Sometimes people forget that there is another reason to sign 'over-paid, over-aged all-stars.' Its called attendance. A number of years ago, it was popular wisdom to say that the Yankees would NEVER draw 3m fans because of their crappy stadium location, blah, blah, blah. The last few years, attendance has been over 4m, and forget about the attendance figures at other stadiums when the Yanks come to town. A million extra fans, $80 bucks a seat plus concessions, an extra $100m a year, plus YES network revenue. Steinbrenner, what an idiot.
posted by sfts2 at 12:48 PM on October 14
OK, chemistry may not be THAT important, but with the entire team on edge, because they dont know what he'll do next, it makes it a little difficult for them to concentrate on the game. In their minds they are probably thinking, "if I go hitless in 2 games he might trade me, or release me" so they force it, and that is when the strikeouts rise for the hitters, and the pitchers start to 'aim' the ball, and give up homers and walks.
posted by megyed at 04:27 PM on October 17
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