FanDuel - WFBC

August 10, 2005

Owens leaves after verbal spat with Reid: BETHLEHEM, Pa. -- Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens exchanged words with head coach Andy Reid at a team meeting Wednesday and was asked to leave, according to news reports. Owens then got his belongings and cleared out of Eagles training camp at Lehigh University, according to two television reports. He was expected to return to his home in New Jersey, ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reports. Earlier Wednesday, he had missed practice for the fifth time in six days because of a left groin injury. Owens worked out with the team's assistant trainer for about 20 minutes on a separate playing field from his teammates, catching balls from a machine and doing some light running. He did not speak to reporters or acknowledge the fans who chanted his name. The All-Pro receiver sat out practices last Friday and Saturday. He returned Sunday for both the morning and afternoon sessions, but hasn't practiced since. Owens is unhappy the Eagles have refused to redo his contract as he enters the second season of a seven-year, $48.97 million deal. Last season, Owens had 77 receptions for 1,200 yards and a franchise-record 14 touchdowns receptions before severely injuring his ankle late in the season. He missed the final two regular-season games and the first two playoff games before returning for the Super Bowl, in which he had nine receptions for 122 yards. When asked about Owens leaving camp, his agent Drew Rosenhaus said it was a matter between Owens and Reid. Rosenhaus declined to talk about it further.

posted by dbt302 to football at 03:28 PM - 104 comments

I just want to know how much more are the Eagles going to put up with. It is time for these franchises to stop kissing the butts of these overpaid cry babies. Terrell Owens is nothing more than a supreme distraction. He signed a contract last year that pays him almost $7 million a year for 7 years after he was kicked out by the 49ers because they were tired of his crap. I would think that eventually your talent would not be able to overshadow the fact that your are more hassle than your worth. I guess as long as there is the Oakland Raiders every trouble maker will have a fall back job (i.e. Randy Moss)

posted by mcstan13 at 03:38 PM on August 10

Wanna punish him ? send him back to SF.

posted by evil empire at 03:53 PM on August 10

I just want to know how much more are the Eagles going to put up with. From the looks of it, not much.

posted by cl at 03:55 PM on August 10

They were near their end when he finally reported to camp last week. (Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick.)

posted by chicobangs at 03:57 PM on August 10

The time atheletes stop trying to renegotiate contracts will be when the fans stop paying to see them perform. I personally will not attend any future professional sporting events unless I receive tickets for free. These guys and gals are spoiled beyond comprehension and the owners are greedy. Lets boycott professional sports. It is time for the fans to strike!

posted by panteeze at 04:04 PM on August 10

I honestly think that the Eagles should release him. His contract is so big that no team will touch it. The longer he stays in camp, the more trouble he will cause. Get rid of the problem now.

posted by dbt302 at 04:09 PM on August 10

I bet i could post a bigger paragraph on my next FPP!!

posted by StarFucker at 04:11 PM on August 10

but what do they do about wide receivers? he's got them in a bad position right now

posted by gr8czrsgost at 04:13 PM on August 10

Sorry about the long paragraph. It was my first posting. I'll get better.

posted by dbt302 at 04:13 PM on August 10

The problem is you always have one owner who will sign these big babies. So therefore the others are afraid of telling them to take a hike for fear of facing them later. Wtih TO it was a 7 year contract. He doesn't like the pay let him sit home and not get paid until the contract runs out

posted by scottypup at 04:15 PM on August 10

Exactly gr8. The Eagles aren't going to be winning any Super Bowls without him. Pinkston's injury was addition by subtraction but without TO, they're left with Greg Lewis and maybe Reggie Brown? Not a comfortable situation...

posted by cl at 04:18 PM on August 10

UH OH...T.O. AINT GITTIN HIS WAY. BOO-FRICKIN HOO..........

posted by tuffy_earl at 04:44 PM on August 10

Sorry about the long paragraph. It was my first posting. I'll get better. Thanks. Great story. I can't believe T.O.'s worn out his welcome in Philly so fast. What a head case. I don't know what Nicolette Sheridan sees in him.

posted by rcade at 04:44 PM on August 10

I honestly think that the Eagles should release him. His contract is so big that no team will touch it. Bzzzzt. Wrong. I'll bet 80% of the league would sign him right now, distractions and all. His contract is small considering his production.

posted by dusted at 05:15 PM on August 10

This idiot has much growin up to do. Unfortunately, when it happens, he may not have a teams jersey to wear.

posted by melcarek69 at 05:19 PM on August 10

He's a cancer, plain and simple. Poor, poor T.O. shows up to camp, won't talk to anybody, including his quarterback, sulks around like a little 4-year old, then when he finally DOES open his big mouth, he gets into it with the coach. I wish the NFL would start distancing themselves from players like this with horrible character traits. Let him go live on the median income level of the city of Philadelphia and see how he enjoys it. Live on $500.00 a week, T.O., even though I don't know where you'd even make that amount legitimately with his job skills. Good contract stance. Both he and his genius agent should be pretty happy.

posted by dyams at 05:31 PM on August 10

Couldn't happen to a better bunch of A-holes than the iggles fans. Let's hear how loud you morons can cheer the next time someone is laid out on the field with a broken neck. Next you'll be booing Santa Claus...wait...you already did that...next you'll be booing a Hall of Fame baseball player who gave his heart and soul to the Phillies...oh wait...you did that too. Next you'll be... T.O. is exactly what every philly fan deserves...an asshole's asshole.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 05:53 PM on August 10

I'm with Panteeze. I've been talking about a fan strike since the first baseball b.s. all those years ago. Everybody applauds and oohs and ahhs these yoyo's big money, but I can't even afford to take my four sons to a ballgame because of it. When will someone remind them that they get PAID to PLAY in the PARK all DAY, then get to take half the year off. We fans are suckers; too loyal, too delusional, thinking it is still somehow made up of the dreams of our youth. We'll never let them down the way they've let us down.

posted by shmoobocko at 06:23 PM on August 10

And oh yeah... F.O. , "T.O." !!!!!!!

posted by shmoobocko at 06:24 PM on August 10

T.O. is a disgrace to the NFL,Himself and his race......

posted by maclmn at 07:01 PM on August 10

Wow...talk about the farmer's tan calling the neck red.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:07 PM on August 10

This thread really took a turn, didn't it. Okay. One, leave the racist bullshit out of this discussion, please. If Owens was white (or Asian, or Latino, or Martian), his tantrums would be no less wrong. Ditto for Andy Reid's skin color, or that of anyone else who's been on either side of this kind of discussion, whenever it's happened, in any sport. And two, turn the fucking capslock off. This isn't Yahoogroups, fergodsake. Sportsfilter is a place to actually discuss these stories and issues, not taunt and scream your jingoistic shit. The season hasn't started yet, so yelling at people only makes you look like an asshole. Stop and count to ten, for pete's sake.

posted by chicobangs at 07:17 PM on August 10

Ok, TO is wrong wrong wrong. He obviously has alot of growing up to do, and the fact that a man(or someone who is supoposed to be a man) would act like that is disgusting. However, It would be disgusting if it was a janitor, or a cop, or a laborer. The amount of his paycheck doesnt matter. He's still a dick. AND Texan??? I kinda think you and T.O. would get along really well on a personal level.

posted by MNJ1193 at 07:19 PM on August 10

Amen Chicobangs .... also calling someone gay just shows a lack of maturity and limited mentality .

posted by evil empire at 07:23 PM on August 10

This Guy Is Not Worth The Time,He's A Distraction To The Team,The Eagles Don't This.Make A Trade,Get Rid Of Him.He Is A Great Player,And He Makes The Team Better.But He Is Too Much A Distraction.

posted by felville at 07:33 PM on August 10

Yes, Owens is being a baby, and yes, he's been getting away with it his whole life because of his prodigious talent. And yes, Philly fans have a truly awful reputation which has been hard earned over decades of ugliness. And yes, the Eagles are arbitrarily choosing now to cut him off until he grows up a little bit, if he ever does. But the team did make that deal for him a year ago, poaching him from the Ravens under shady circumstances, and they knew the package for which they paid through the nose when they took him on in the first place. They knew this day was coming. They were just hoping to squeeze out a Lombardi trophy or two before this happened. Oh well. I have little or no sympathy for the Eagles, T.O., or even the fans. It's Andy Reid who has to deal with this crap and keep the camp and the team moving forward. I'm not the president of his fan club, but they couldn't pay me enough to have Andy Reid's job today.

posted by chicobangs at 07:33 PM on August 10

lluca brazii, I think you're just on the wrong sports site. There's lots of others out there. Why don't you just tell us all to, I don't know, suck a cock or something, and then you can leave having won the argument. That'll save us all -- you, Texan, me, dbt302 (who started this thread), and the people who want to actually break down what Owens' departure from camp actually means to the Eagles and the rest of their division this year -- a ton of grief.

posted by chicobangs at 07:55 PM on August 10

posted by oliver_crunk at 08:02 PM on August 10

lluca brazii, the Godfather character is actually spelled "Luca Brasi."

posted by dusted at 08:14 PM on August 10

your right lluca , this is my first post you moron . if you click on the id's you will see how much we have all participated , hmm your id was made today . ive added 9 links and 133 comments in less than 2 weeks being on here . the more you post the more stupid you sound .

posted by evil empire at 08:15 PM on August 10

nice wig oliver, i need one in blue and silver. lluca put that macho east coast bull shit to the side and see the big picture. Terrell Owens is the best receiver right now. He can make or break a team. The Eagles could not have gone to the Super Bowl without him. He is not getting paid like the best in the NFL. This is a business before it's a sport, unfortunately, and the man deserves to be paid whatever he wants. Andy Reid is at fault. His ego is as big as his ass.

posted by gbottlerocket at 08:18 PM on August 10

also scroll up , i was second to post in this thread .

posted by evil empire at 08:18 PM on August 10

what the hell

posted by gbottlerocket at 08:20 PM on August 10

I'll bet 80% of the league would sign him right now Chico, don't get pissed at me now; I just have to say this. With Plexiglass gone and H.J. Heinz Ward holding out, I'll bet the Steelers will sign him.

posted by tommysands at 08:33 PM on August 10

Hey, cut Owens some slack. He couldn't possibly be a bigger loudmouth blowhard dick than some of the nitwits who've posted comments in this thread. (and I'll bet you he knows where the spacebar and caps lock keys are, too)

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:39 PM on August 10

Oh, you could very easily be right, tommy. Pittsburgh might have a look, maybe Atlanta, maybe Dallas, maybe Seattle, I'm sure there are others. There's no doubt that there will be a few teams that could make the Eagles a trade offer. But T.O. has pulled discontent stunts enough times now that it's going to be an issue with any team he winds up with, including if he stays with the Eagles. He's not as much of a half-assed crybaby as Randy Moss, but he's edging that way. Which is sad.

posted by chicobangs at 08:43 PM on August 10

Texan wants to discuss what TO's departure means to the Eagles and the division? I thought he was just trying to drive up membership at SpoFi with the likes of Mr. lluca brazii.

posted by cl at 08:44 PM on August 10

posted by oliver_crunk at 08:46 PM on August 10

I rather take my chances on billy mcmullen,greg lewis,and rookie reggie brown,I know there not terrell owens,but at least they are not distraction to this team,and mcnabb has done well without a dominant receiver to throw the ball too.

posted by felville at 09:03 PM on August 10

/fellates random member -- if you know what I mean

posted by yerfatma at 10:00 PM on August 10

Take that member out of your mouth! You don't know where it's been!

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:10 PM on August 10

Don't you know that old chestnut? "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than take the member out of your mouth and remove all doubt." Apparently some of our new entrants are unfamiliar.

posted by yerfatma at 10:18 PM on August 10

I must say, I haven't heard the expression "sissy-fied" since I last saw Blazing Saddles. "What in the Wide World of Sports is a-goin' on around here???"

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:26 PM on August 10

Baby, please! I'm not from Havana.

posted by yerfatma at 11:04 PM on August 10

I still say that whether it comes form McNabb's fist or a chunky soup can, T.O. needs his ass kicked. No one wants to hear his crap anymore, or deal with it.

posted by tina at 11:10 PM on August 10

Since when did this site become a place to attack the opinions of other people? Remember these three facts about professional sports: 1. ALL pro atheletes are over paid to play a game. 2. Superfans are usally broke from spending all their money on wigs and face paint. 3. Does it really make a difference to your lifestyle, if your team is 16-0 or 0-16. Everybody needs to lighten up. PS I really do love football, despite the crybabies who play.

posted by tb_mitchell at 07:38 AM on August 11

Since when did this site become a place to attack the opinions of other people? Since never. However, it has always been a place to ridicule people who post along the lines of "YR TEAM SUX MY TEAM ROOLZ LOL!!!1!1!"

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:57 AM on August 11

I agree with chico. Everyone knew what TO was about and the Eagles still wanted him. TO took a contract that has less guaranteed money than the free agent market would dictate because of the mess he was in. Now, one year later, he is mad about it. Still, so long as he is still able to perform at a high level, teams will want him.

posted by bperk at 08:23 AM on August 11

Remember these three facts about professional sports: 1. ALL pro atheletes are over paid to play a game. Prove, or provide source for, this fact.

posted by yerfatma at 08:33 AM on August 11

I agree that 80% of the teams would take him in a heartbeat. I'm a Jets fan, and I'd love to see them do something like trade John Abraham for him. This, of course, won't happen because they threw a ton of money into Coles's signing bonus. Realistically, though, which teams are in a position where they actually could make a move for T.O. now, never mind his baggage? The obvious one, Oakland, is out of the running...

posted by ajaffe at 08:36 AM on August 11

Yeah this is getting a little ridiculous. T.O. needs to understand on some level that his job is playing - the rest of this crap is just uneccessary. He should've stayed at home until he got his new contract - because now he's completely retardified training camp. That said - I expect he'll be back in a week, apologize in some half-assed way and the Iggles will win 11-13 games this year.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:39 AM on August 11

Ok, my mistake verfatma! You may be right, it may not be a proven "fact" that pro atheletes are over paid, but just the "fact" that they make more than the military personnel, police officers and others that defend the freedom under which they are allowed to play pro sports, makes me a little irritated. They should just play the game, entertain the fans, and keep their mouths shut.

posted by tb_mitchell at 08:50 AM on August 11

He will be back , play this season out but as for apologizing , that'll never happen . He will make it seem like he did what he wanted to do under his terms and that HE is in complete control . And he will go on with this illusion that he is the baddest , most important man on earth . Without the NFL he's just another unemployable ex-pro athlete . I'd doubt even ESPN would hire him as an analyst .

posted by evil empire at 08:52 AM on August 11

Ok, my mistake verfatma! You may be right, it may not be a proven "fact" that pro atheletes are over paid, but just the "fact" that they make more than the military personnel, police officers and others that defend the freedom under which they are allowed to play pro sports, makes me a little irritated. tb, you're ranting. A "professional athlete" is one who's paid to play, and there are a great many below the radar scope who aren't paid very much at all. To give you an example, when Sue Bird was drafted by the WNBA in 2002, she was offered $57,500. That was exceptional, well above the veteran league minimum of $40,000. The league minimum for players with 0-3 years experience is $30,600 and the veteran minimum is now $43,700. There are a lot of cops making much more than that; there are cops in Boston pulling in $200,000. And the same goes everywhere, even in the "big three" men's pro sports in the US, where most of the players, going by the numbers, are just getting by. So please, let's inject a little sense and sanity into this "pro athletes are spoiled overpaid babies" bullshit. A very few of them are; they're the tip of the iceberg, the little bit that's above the water.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:03 AM on August 11

fatma said: Prove, or provide source for, this fact. tb responded: Ok, my mistake verfatma! You may be right, it may not be a proven "fact" that pro atheletes are over paid, but... Great challenge and great response. That's what these boards should be about; not ad hominem attacks. Chico, did I make you run to your Funk and Wagnalls on that one?

posted by tommysands at 09:14 AM on August 11

lil brown bat, I applaud your knowledge of the veterans that make league minimum to stay in the game. I also know of players, both great and small, who have taken pay cuts to remain on "their" team. These players keep me watching sports, not the "look at me, I'm bigger than life" players. Just one man's opinion. Can we be friends? :)

posted by tb_mitchell at 09:39 AM on August 11

Damn...did I stir something up with some wanna-be gambino? It's a shame I missed it...I like going toe-to-toe with the intellectual (wise-guy?)-types.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 10:07 AM on August 11

Maybe the Ravens want T.O.

posted by dyams at 10:08 AM on August 11

The best thing for the Eagles would be if Reggie Brown has a break out season and can both lower Owens value to the team and give them leeway to trade that cancer away next season.

posted by evil empire at 10:18 AM on August 11

CHICO.... "PITTSBURGH MIGHT HAVE A LOOK, MAYBE ATLANTA, MAYBE DALLAS, MAYBE SEATTLE" I DONT THINK T.O WOULD BE INTERESTED IN DALLAS NOR WOULD HE BE WELCOMED THERE. PITTSBURGH AINT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, MICHAEL VICK COULDN'T PLAY WITH T.O. BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH "SPOT LIGHT" PLAYERS. I SEE T.O. NEW ENGLAND BOUND IF HE CAN STAND THE COLD.

posted by tuffy_earl at 10:28 AM on August 11

Never underestimate Oakland! They would probably throw a party for him. Personaly, I could see that happening.

posted by tb_mitchell at 10:30 AM on August 11

PITTSBURGH AINT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY tuffy, I agree: Pittsburgh is cheap, cheap, cheap. Look what they're doing to Heinz Ward. However, the Steelers may be desperate with both Ward and Plexico gone. Who knows what they or TO might do.

posted by tommysands at 10:36 AM on August 11

Tuffy: What happened to you between your first comment here and the remaining ones? The first one was a well thought-out position explained well. The rest have all been caps-locks and full of piss. Get back on the meds please. I'll bet the Steelers will sign him. I'll pretend you were drinking when you wrote this. Why would they sign TO when they could shell out less money for Hines and get him in camp? Why would they sign TO when they could sign Hines and know the guy is gonna block, run and do everything possible to help his team win. Why would they sign TO who will do nothing but bitch when he doesn't get enough passes thrown to him in a system that is dedicated to the run? The Ravens or the Raiders are more likely to sign him. They like thugs. He'll fit in well with Ray "What Murder?" Lewis and Jamal "Coke Dealer" Lewis.

posted by scully at 10:57 AM on August 11

the "fact" that they make more than the military personnel, police officers and others that defend the freedom under which they are allowed to play pro sports, makes me a little irritated. Supply and Demand, explained.

posted by yerfatma at 11:01 AM on August 11

OK, I'LL TAKE CAPS OFF. My question is, can Oakland afford Moss and T.O.?

posted by tuffy_earl at 11:26 AM on August 11

verfatma, I appreciate your concern for my education, but I took economics in college. Besides, English Lit is where I had problems. And your point is noted. Now, about Oakland affording T.O. and Moss. They had Brown and Rice, I just don't remember, or don't care enough to research, what they were paid. I just think that would be a perfect place for a perfect loud mouth.

posted by tb_mitchell at 11:35 AM on August 11

texan came back looking for an arguement...maybe you'll find one when you go clothes shopping at walmart and switch the price tags.and if anyone is a "wannabe"..i think you "wannabe" in that country group garth brooks and dunn.stick to the topic you lowley cowboys fan.you're just mad that the eagles ended up with michael irving jr(t.o)and the worst part is,the cowgirls would take owens in a heartbeat(and ask him to wear #88)hows that for standing on the dallas star at midfield. p.s.please win atleast 7 games this year. you should try out for the new reality show "fantasy island" you could play retardo mentalblock

posted by lluca brazii at 12:24 PM on August 11

and talk about hypo-critical..wasnt to long ago that michael irvin was in the headlines for selling coke/smacking his wife around/neglecting his child support.WITH THAT SAID. from here on out, no dallas fan can comment on this subject.i mean compare t.o. to irvin.A t.o. is better stat wise and is a all around better receiver.B. when you think of what t.o. is doing (being a baby asking for money)and acting like a child in camp is no way as bad as selling crack and getting arrested (3 times)for soliciting prostitution/drugs/and domestic abuse.thats why irvin got what he got in the end of his career.its called karma. what goes around comes around.and you dallas fans LOVED HIM.says alot about your character as a team...T.O asks for money and argues with the coach and he is suspended.IRVING sells and buys crack(like leon lett)and pimps women and you guys embrace him like hes your own family.heres to ya dallas for not thinking "crack is wack"whats next..."bobbie brown to buy the cowboys"?see ya at the bottom at the nfc again this year.while we win it again...with or without irving jr.,,,E.A.G.L.E.S...WANNA BE THAT ....WILLIE NELSON

posted by lluca brazii at 12:38 PM on August 11

Why on earth would Oakland need TO? They have Randy Moss, Jerry Porter, and a couple of really good #3 receivers, I agree Oakland does have a history of taking difficult players (See Romanowski, Moss, Sapp, et al), but at this point in time even if they could squeeze the money out of the cap, they don't have any need for a wide receiver.

posted by patrickje at 12:47 PM on August 11

Excellent. Keep typing, luca. You're proving my point with every key you touch. You might try a little research (I know...it's a foreign concept for an iggles "fan") right here on SpoFi before you take another shot at stereotyping. This is just too easy...like fish in a barrel.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 12:47 PM on August 11

OMG totally if irvin can get away with several counts of possesion and leon lett spends an in ordinate amount of time in a federal bunkhouse because of his ambition to be the best and most overweight drug dealer of all time than t.o. should be able to rake his team over the coals for several weeks into the regular season AND still be able to abuse women, children, and small animals.just so long as his sentence is concurrent with preseason schedule.so as to expedite his return in week five. where he will dominate from then on.i don't have the numbers DIRECTLY in front of me but I am pretty sure that he may be able to kill, and ritualistically cannibalize the entire practice squad and still be up for consideration for the HOF.give or take.but you know, he'd still be saint compared to irvin or lett.i mean, come on .dealing drugs is evil. ahem. sorry. Unlike several newer members, I am intrigued by your CAPS LOCK restraint mr. "brasii". However, personal attacks, straw men, circular reasoning, incoherent slander, bad grammar, and incomprehensible use of punctuation are discouraged. -MANAGEMENT

posted by lilnemo at 01:12 PM on August 11

Patrickje (if it was my comment to which you were referring), I wasn't suggesting the Raiders were a good fit for T.O. football-wise, only in the sense of them being the go-to team in terms of "problem" players. I'd still love to see the Jets make a play for him...

posted by ajaffe at 01:40 PM on August 11

Excellent counterpoint Texan. You've again proved my point that you have absolutely nothing to say. And i dont think that i am able to "stereotype" my own race. I was merely stating that its funny to hear a cowgirls fan be critical of a player like T.O., when they had so much "love" for a drugdealing pimp like irvin. This is not a stereotype, its a fact. Now nemo, i was not excusing T.O's behavior. I was pointing out that compared to irvin, the guy is a saint. I did not know you were going to "grade" my post. I certainly didnt mean to offend you with bad grammer or punctuation, however you must remember,the previous was intended for a cowgirls fan. So i wanted to keep it on "his level". Now, to keep you busy, i have included only 2 gramatical errors and 2 mispelled words in this post. Happy grading. he'd still be saint compared HE'D STILL BE "A" SAINT COMPARED..1 WRONG OMG totally if irvin can get away with several counts of possesion and leon lett spends an in ordinate amount of time in a federal bunkhouse because of his ambition to be the best and most overweight drug dealer of all time than t.o. should be able to rake his team over the coals for several weeks into the regular season AND still be able to abuse women, children, and small animals. RUNON SENTENCE...WE'LL COUNT THIS AS 2 WRONG This site is full of hippo-crites

posted by lluca brazii at 04:22 PM on August 11

Apparently you don't know what a parody is either.

posted by lilnemo at 04:30 PM on August 11

I wasn't suggesting the Raiders were a good fit for T.O. football-wise, only in the sense of them being the go-to team in terms of "problem" players. The only "problem" Raiders players have had in recent years is their ability to play good football.

posted by dyams at 04:49 PM on August 11

Stereotype: 1 : a plate cast from a printing surface 2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment. I was merely stating that its funny to hear a cowgirls fan be critical of a player like T.O., when they had so much "love" for a drugdealing pimp like irvin. The referring link dismissed any notion that you hit the target with your attempt at a rebuttal. Fucking Mensa candidate, this one. I think I'm done here.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 04:50 PM on August 11

Hey, that first paragraph is not a bad response, lluca. Logical, on-point and sharp... now you're getting into the spirit of SpoFi. It's a total red herring, but I agree with you about Owens vs. Irvin. One is has been annoying, the other has been a criminal. In no way does that excuse Owens, but yeah, a little perspective would be nice. He hasn't hurt anyone with his stupid pranks.

posted by dusted at 04:50 PM on August 11

Irvin didn't get a free pass from Dallas fans. I was a Cowboys season ticket holder when he got in the worst of his troubles. Fans and the local media were incredibly negative -- when he came back, boos outnumbered cheers 10-to-1 during his intro. As for Irvin vs. Owens, my gut take is that T.O. is better, but the numbers are a lot closer than people might think. The only stat where T.O. stands over Irvin is touchdowns. Irvin also had something T.O. will never have: leadership skills. Irvin was a playmaker who set the tone for the Cowboys' swagger during the Jimmy Johnson years, and I think his mentality was a perfect fit for the psychology that Jimmy laid on that team. No one hated to lose more than Irvin.

posted by rcade at 06:07 PM on August 11

Hey Texan, I hate to fan the flames here, but let's not forget how this one started: "Couldn't happen to a better bunch of A-holes than the iggles fans. [...] T.O. is exactly what every philly fan deserves...an asshole's asshole."

posted by cl at 09:23 PM on August 11

Thank you 2 very much. Finally someone is paying attention. Maybe I was a little aggressive towards mr irvin. However if your not a philly or dallas fan, then you will not understand the hatred.That being said, i can even say after our treatment of irvin maybe texans comments are warranted.But that doesnt mean im stereotyping him. If you havnt heard him testify in church about his antics (i have)back when he was a young player. Then you cant know the entire story about how he was. The medias version and his testimony in church after he became repentent are 2 different things.Maybe i shouldnt have crossed the line with a person who has admitted guilt and asked for forgivness, but the azzholes azzhole comment sent me over the edge.After seeing the interviews today i think T.O. needs to be sat down for however long it takes.But my comments about michael irvin were directly related to things he has admitted to in a public forum, and were in no way motivated by predjudice.I will say this texan, none of your reponses thus far have anything to do with who has been the better team in the past few years,i can only assume that you're feeling what we felt in the 90's and its just a bitter pill to swallow.Now, back to being an eagles fan.DEAL WITH IT YOU COWGIRL SISSY.(STEREOTYPE ME AS AN AZZHOLE, IM GOING TO ACT LIKE ONE)E.A.G.L.E.S...ALL THE WAY WITH OR WITHOUT T.O.

posted by lluca brazii at 09:59 PM on August 11

Dusted, to address the red herring comment. I found it utterly ridiculous for a dallas fan to say that the eagles got what they deserve signing a player like owens(reffering to owens and the eagles fans as azzholes)So i figured i would remind him about how dallas handled irvin.T.o. is being an azzhole right now.Just for that reason on philly.com 73% of fans have said he needs to be traded.what irvin did and what he was arrested for i think is far worse than anything T.O has done,but dallas managment or fans did not deam it tradable behavior, they gave the guy an extention.So if we're azzholes for signing an azzhole, are dallas fans a bunch of cracksmoking wife abusers?The eagles sent this guy home for mere imature behavior. Irvin gets arrested and gets a new contract.I just dont think any dallas fans should comment on the issue in the manner in which texan did.its the pot calling the kettle black

posted by lluca brazii at 10:23 PM on August 11

Hey Texan, I hate to fan the flames here, but let's not forget how this one started: And your point is?

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 10:30 PM on August 11

Someone needs a TO. A Time Out. Admin, we need a clean up in isle 4914, please.

posted by scully at 06:54 AM on August 12

Just an FYI: you're free to spell "ass" correctly here (i.e., with two dollar signs).

posted by yerfatma at 06:56 AM on August 12

As for the TO & Irvin debate, Irvin was very much aided by a coach who allowed for his star players to act a bit like primadonnas. Jimmy has said many times that he would cut other players for behavior that he would allow from his stars. Reid doesn't seem to be a coach like that.

posted by bperk at 08:06 AM on August 12

(i.e., with two dollar signs). OK, fatma, at the risk of sounding stupid, again, I'll bite. What's the two $ signs? And also, Just an FYI, got ya: you're free to spell FYI with a "a". Ha, -:)

posted by tommysands at 08:19 AM on August 12

Just an FYI: you're free to spell "ass" correctly here (i.e., with two dollar signs). Wow ... is it coincidental that Deion used to sign his last name that way ($ander$)?

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:25 AM on August 12

you're free to spell FYI with a "a" Yeah, I guess we need an editorial guide for that sort of stuff. I think I always use "an" before an acronym. Never consulted Strun & White on that one. Of course, either way I'm not "spelling it" with a or n. The a$$ thing was a reference to the more common variation on "ass" for messageboards that filter out profanity.

posted by yerfatma at 09:49 AM on August 12

Strunk. Damnit.

posted by yerfatma at 09:49 AM on August 12

The a$$ thing was a reference to the more common variation on "ass" $hank$, fatma.

posted by tommysands at 11:00 AM on August 12

The greatest scene from The Godfather was when Luca Brasi goes to see Sollozzo and Tattaglia pretending that he was not happy with the Corleone family and wanted to join up with them . Being a phony he was quickly outed and found himself with a knife stabbed through his hand into a table and strangled from behind to the point where his fat tongue writhed out of his mouth as he gasped for a breath of air . It looked so realisic . For some reason I feel like watching that movie again .

posted by evil empire at 11:08 AM on August 12

"it's called parody" I think the word you are looking for Tex is parity. But thanks for the laugh.

posted by scully at 11:09 AM on August 12

Ah yes...my bad. I guess the coffee hadn't quite kicked in.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 11:25 AM on August 12

The personal attacks need to stop, folks. I've deleted several from the last round. If you want to argue the relative merits of Owens, Irvin, and their respective teams, great. If you want to argue the respective merits of each other, give it a rest.

posted by rcade at 11:41 AM on August 12

Yeah, I guess we need an editorial guide for that sort of stuff. I think I always use "an" before an acronym. The rules for the use of articles in abbreviations and acronyms is pretty much the same rule as for normal words. The sound is usually what counts. If the word starts with "F", the sound is really "eff" so you use "an" (e.g., an FBI agent). For words that start with a vowel, such as USA or UN, you base it on the sound "you", so it begins with "a" (e.g., a UN representative).

posted by bperk at 11:53 AM on August 12

As long as you're vindicating me, you're 100% right.

posted by yerfatma at 12:46 PM on August 12

I don't know fatma. Sounds like perki just made that up.

posted by tommysands at 02:07 PM on August 12

Google's failing me, but you can find some major newspapers' copywriter guidelines online to compare his standard too. Also, who would make that up to impress? Seems like a tough way to meet girls.

posted by yerfatma at 02:49 PM on August 12

I can't believe you are making me prove it! Here's the link. I couldn't find the Chicago Manual of Style online. Use the appropriate article (a, an, or the) with abbreviations and acronyms when you would use that article in speech. In general, if an acronym (like NASA or NATO) is pronounced as a word rather than as a series of letters (the AFL-CIO), you do not need an article when the acronym is used as a noun. The choice between using a or an with an acronym or abbreviation is governed by how the acronym or abbreviation is typically spoken.

posted by bperk at 03:44 PM on August 12

I can't believe you are making me prove it! I didn't doubt you for an minute, perki. Thanks for a interesting link. BTW, since the Style Guide is from Colorodo, one can't be too careful...

posted by tommysands at 06:24 PM on August 12

The Ravens or the Raiders are more likely to sign him. They like thugs. He'll fit in well with Ray "What Murder?" Lewis and Jamal "Coke Dealer" Lewis. Hey terp, I thought youns were a Ravens homer. Why youns sayin bad things about them?

posted by tommysands at 06:52 AM on August 13

tommysands: Did you look at my profile? I am a University of Maryland grad, but a life-long Steelers fan. I couldn't stand the Ravens when they were in Cleveland and I can't stand them now ;) Although I must admit I dislike them less now that Art Modell is out of the picture. And even if I was a homer, I wouldn't support the Ravens. I'd still be mourning the loss of the Colts.

posted by scully at 10:26 AM on August 13

but a life-long Steelers fan Hey, terp, you're now my friend for life and maybe beyond.

posted by tommysands at 12:01 PM on August 13

If you didn't notice, Texan apologized. It's over, man, move on.

posted by dusted at 12:34 AM on August 15

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