FanDuel - WFBC

March 22, 2005

Bonds May Miss 2005 Season: It could be a result of his knee surgery: "Right now I'm just going to try to rehab myself to get back to, I don't know, hopefully next season, hopefully the middle of the season. I don't know. Right now I'm just going to take things slow." Or it could be the media's fault: "You wanted me to jump off a bridge, I finally did," Bonds said. "You finally brought me and my family down. ... So now go pick a different person." I, for one, will miss this travelling circus sideshow.

posted by NoMich to baseball at 02:46 PM - 83 comments

"You wanted me to jump off a bridge, I finally did," Bonds said. He's so stupid if he jumped off of a bridge he'd go up. Damn you media, now look what you have done.

posted by chris2sy at 03:09 PM on March 22

Did I miss something, or did the media hit him in the knee this year?

posted by volfire at 03:14 PM on March 22

Poor Barry. Poor, poor Barry.

posted by 86 at 03:20 PM on March 22

Damn it! Where is the little violin emoticon when you need it?

posted by lilnemo at 03:24 PM on March 22

If he skips the whole season, I don't think he'll come back.

posted by kirkaracha at 03:35 PM on March 22

He is pretty damn old. Even with today's superior conditioning regimen, knee surgery will hinder his ability to swat the long ones. Of course, all he needs to do is keep playing, year after year, and hit 20 homers each time. Eventually he'll get to Hank Aaron's record.

posted by NoMich at 03:38 PM on March 22

kirk, i'm thinking the same thing. i have a hunch that he'll shut-up, drop out of sight (he's hoping), and in doing so not break his uncle's record(s). So in his mind everything would be cool; he can have his HR record pie (with a side of BALCO), but not eclipse his (supposedly) clean superstar uncle. But I like puck, so what do I know.

posted by garfield at 03:45 PM on March 22

Last September, the Giants dropped a provision that would have allowed them to void Bonds' $18 million salary in 2006 if he failed to reach 500 plate appearances this year or 1,500 combined from 2003 to 2005, including at least 400 this year. His poor, poor family.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 03:46 PM on March 22

I'm sure the steroids will help him heal quick. Yes, you can jump off a bridge Bonds. Take that twat McGwire with you too...

posted by Drood at 03:49 PM on March 22

That sucks. Bonds was finally going to make an appearance here in Minnesota and now he has to miss it. Oh well, I won't miss him that much.

posted by emoeby at 04:00 PM on March 22

Damn handy timing this. I read this as: "I'ma lay low 'til this steroids thing blows over. I'll test the waters in 6 mos and see if I am 'ready to play' or need more 'rehab'. As and added bonus I have a built-in excuse for my impending weight loss." Perhaps I am too cynical and reading between too many lines, but the timing is a little too convenient for my liking. I say there is no way he retires without at least catching Ruth, even if he sits the whole year.

posted by pivo at 04:01 PM on March 22

6 months should probably be something like 3-ish there.

posted by pivo at 04:04 PM on March 22

but not eclipse his (supposedly) clean superstar uncle. hank aaron isn't related to bonds. i think you're thinking of mays, who is his godfather. heard a giants beat writer (i think?) on the radio. he said that most of his peers felt that bonds is more concerned in passing up ruth than breaking aaron's record. he wasn't too clear on why though.

posted by goddam at 04:06 PM on March 22

I heard he also walked outside and there was a bag of sugar half stuck out of his car's gas tank opening, the contents emptied into the tank, and a note that said only: "courtesy of the media." He's gonna stick around to pass Ruth and Aaron I would think. How bad could his knee be?

posted by chris2sy at 04:07 PM on March 22

he wasn't too clear on why though. But you do know why, right?

posted by pivo at 04:11 PM on March 22

Whitey?

posted by chris2sy at 04:18 PM on March 22

I love watching Bonds play. It is exciting every time he comes to the plate. If that is steroid induced, and steroid use is rampant, then why is he the only one with all the walks? I am probably alone in thinking that the steroid controversy has been a bit overdone. They weren't cheating. It was legal in baseball. Now, it isn't. So what is the point of trying to make all the stars confess? I would miss Bonds if he doesn't play. Go Bonds!!

posted by bperk at 04:25 PM on March 22

Bonds says it's cause Babe hit lefty.

posted by mbd1 at 04:30 PM on March 22

In that press conference, he sounded like one of my tenants when they can't pay the rent.

posted by rocketman at 04:54 PM on March 22

Okay, then, this brings up a curious question of ethics: What if Bonds decided he wanted to pass the Babe but not Hank? He realized at some point that he wasn't going to be able to stop before 755 unless something drastic happened, and now he's developed (between the scandal and the knee) a convenient out for his career. He can limp out for a month or two (and maybe limp home next year), pass the Babe, get to 720 or so, and limp off into the sunset, the main record untarnished, whitey knocked down a notch, and many fewer questions about his accomplishments than if he'd made it to 756. I'm not saying he engineered this whole thing, but that would be one way of taking advantage of the situation as it stands. What do you think about this possibility?

posted by chicobangs at 06:49 PM on March 22

i certainly feel that bonds's comments and his "playing" of the whole situation is extremely convenient, to say the least, and if he does return to play and suprass babe ruth's record, that is where he'll stop, with the top 2 record holders NOT being white-this isn't a racist comment on my part, but rather a racial motivation , as i see it, on bonds part...

posted by jamiez67 at 07:13 PM on March 22

Of course creams and clear lotions aside, who say's he can even hit a home run anymore? I'm think'in were in for a massive shrink'in?

posted by volfire at 07:20 PM on March 22

God damn it, I wasted a first-round pick on this bastard! You get your ass back on the field right now and continue slathering your entire body with the cream!!!

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:05 PM on March 22

I believe that Bonds has shown his true colors. Cheat, Lie then get away to let things cool off. I believe that this is the only way he feels that he can get away with his lame excuses and his cheating. BASEBALL WILL BE FAR BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM PLAYING STLHAMMER

posted by STLHAMMER at 08:17 PM on March 22

TRUST ME, I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING </Sledgehammer>

posted by yerfatma at 09:34 PM on March 22

I beleive that Bonds is a great ball player, no question about it. Although, caught up in a scandal, it is one he chose. Barry, remember, no matter how good you are, you are still responsible for your actions and comments. Don't say stupid things and you won't get ridiculed for it.

posted by sempd5 at 09:40 PM on March 22

Even though Barry Bonds is hurt and he's getting older, a big reason why he might not play at all this season is definitely because of the media. He can play through pain, as he has proven numerous times in the past. Every time Bonds was hurt, the media said that the pain was no problem for him. Bonds wanted to live up to the media's expectations, so he always tried as much as he could to play while he was hurt. And when he couldn't play, the media always bothered him and always asked him when he would come back to play. When Barry Bonds started to reach the home run record, the media always had a set number for him to reach by the end of each season. If Barry reached the set number that season, the media had an even higher number set the next season. If he didn't reach the set number, the media would say that there's something wrong with him. It's a "no win" situation. And the reason why Barry Bonds always tried to do what the media wanted him to do, was because the media has such a strong influence on the fans of baseball. And Bonds has always tried to do want the fans would love to see him do.

posted by Pickles84 at 11:33 PM on March 22

God damn it, I wasted a first-round pick on this bastard! You get your ass back on the field right now and continue slathering your entire body with the cream!!! The first thing I did was go check to see who drafted him and where, then giggle my ass off at you, Fraze. *Lifts a beer* Here's to you, Mr. Bad Luck In Fantasy Baseball Man!

posted by dusted at 12:15 AM on March 23

I personally think that Mr. Bonds is going to have more that the media to worry about. I think he may have a little legal problem coming his way. I certainly wont miss his on the ball field. I'd laugh if the Giants ran away with the Division without SIR BARRY!

posted by daddisamm at 12:42 AM on March 23

Ummm.... what legal problems could Barry possibly face? Unless you're allowed to prosecute someone for something that has _become_ illegal, he's in the clear, right? Or, am I missing something? Barry is not the most personable guy in the world, but if you're going to persecute him, McGwire should be in your sights, as well...

posted by slackerman at 01:12 AM on March 23

i have a hunch that he'll shut-up, drop out of sight I don't think we will be that lucky. I see Bonds publicly whining about how he's been "brought down" by the media until the day he dies.

posted by mayerkyl at 06:49 AM on March 23

Ummm.... what legal problems could Barry possibly face? if what his ex-mistress testified to is true, he could be investigated for money laundering or tax evasion. plus if it is ever proved that he lied in his grand jury testimony, he could be nailed on perjury.

posted by goddam at 07:24 AM on March 23

Ummm.... what legal problems could Barry possibly face? if what his ex-mistress testified to is true, he could be investigated for money laundering or tax evasion. plus if it is ever proved that he lied in his grand jury testimony, he could be nailed on perjury. posted by goddam at 7:24 AM CST on March 23 Exactly my point--You know I am tired of people saying he took steroids when they wernt against the rules of MLB. It was and is agaisnt the law to take Steroids w/o a perscription.............

posted by daddisamm at 07:44 AM on March 23

Bonds also faces legal problems if he lied to the grand jury. Even though Barry Bonds is hurt and he's getting older, a big reason why he might not play at all this season is definitely because of the media. I can't believe anyone buys into Bonds' pity party. When has he ever sought media approval?

posted by rcade at 08:08 AM on March 23

Bonds is reaping that which he has sewn. The man NEVER did ANYTHING to try to present himself as a likeable human being. He has a personality problem, he's a liar and a cheat. There's no reason to feel any sympathy for Barry. BTW, did anyone notice that Barry's son, sitting next to him at yesterday's interview, was wearing a Barry Sanders jersey? Symbolism for an early Barrry exit? Hmmm.

posted by mayerkyl at 08:36 AM on March 23

bperk> It was legal in baseball. Wrong. Baseball did not have a policy, but that does not mean they were legal. Steroids in AMERICA are ILLEGAL unless PRESCRIBED BY A DOCTOR. Crucial difference.

posted by the red terror at 09:29 AM on March 23

Pickles84>"Even though Barry Bonds is hurt and he's getting older, a big reason why he might not play at all this season is definitely because of the media." What a load of codswallop. "Bonds wanted to live up to the media's expectations, so he always tried as much as he could to play while he was hurt." Horse kak. Bonds has always hated the media. He doesn't care about the media. Bonds played to his own expectations. "And when he couldn't play, the media always bothered him and always asked him when he would come back to play. When Barry Bonds started to reach the home run record, the media always had a set number for him to reach by the end of each season. If Barry reached the set number that season, the media had an even higher number set the next season. If he didn't reach the set number, the media would say that there's something wrong with him. It's a "no win" situation. And the reason why Barry Bonds always tried to do what the media wanted him to do, was because the media has such a strong influence on the fans of baseball. And Bonds has always tried to do want the fans would love to see him do." This is utter nonsense. Bonds played for Bonds. He has never given a damn about media or fans. But that's beside the point. You are trying to put a crowbar in the medias hand and say they knee-capped Barry Bonds. If Bonds is a man, he can take responsibility for his own actions and not require fanboy apologists to invent distortions to protect him. Jack Johnson, Jackie Robinson and Muhammad Ali never whined like Bonds, and they had a far tougher ride.

posted by the red terror at 09:37 AM on March 23

Okay. One thing: "Because he's a hateful jackass" is not an excuse for excommunication. Until he compares poorly to Ty Cobb, that argument holds no water with me whatsoever. Regardless of what he did or how it panned out, and beyond what his actions may or may not do to the record books and his legacy, Barry has made a point of always, always being his own man. I don't think he hates the media or white folks or anyone all that much. He just isn't great with people. He knows how to do one thing, and he does it very, very well, maybe better than anyone ever did. The steroids issue speaks to Barry working on his own excellence, and he's never backed down from that point. I actually find myself respecting him.

posted by chicobangs at 10:15 AM on March 23

"The steroids issue speaks to Barry working on his own excellence..." Also speaks to cheating.

posted by the red terror at 10:37 AM on March 23

As if steroid use indicates dedication, please.

posted by mayerkyl at 10:43 AM on March 23

He knows how to do one thing, and he does it very, very well, maybe better than anyone ever did. Cheat?

posted by rcade at 10:52 AM on March 23

I don't think he hates the media or white folks or anyone all that much. He just isn't great with people. He knows how to do one thing, and he does it very, very well, maybe better than anyone ever did. The steroids issue speaks to Barry working on his own excellence, and he's never backed down from that point. Why then has Bonds always raised the "race card" when talking about Ruth and his record? There are a bunch of quotes out there where Bond's basically says that Ruth was a fluke and wouldnt have held the record if Blacks had been allowed in the MLB. There were indeed some great ball players in the Negro leagues and its a shame that they werent a part of MLB and maye there would have been a challenger to Ruth's record and others. You cant change the past. To me, when Hank broke the Babe's record, it showed the world the legacy of the great Negro league players. No Bonds, brings the bad press on himself--period. There is a real "hatred" in alot of what he says to the press.

posted by daddisamm at 11:18 AM on March 23

There are a bunch of quotes out there where Bond's basically says that Ruth was a fluke and wouldnt have held the record if Blacks had been allowed in the MLB. There were indeed some great ball players in the Negro leagues and its a shame that they werent a part of MLB and maye there would have been a challenger to Ruth's record and others. You cant change the past. You can't change the past, but you can add an asterisk to Ruth's records. Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants to all the Bonds haters?

posted by dusted at 11:48 AM on March 23

This is an important point: It wasn't cheating when he did it. There were no rules against steroid use in MLB until very recently. None. If Bonds (or McGwire, or anyone else) juiced themselves in the past, it was specifically to gain an edge they felt they needed, and which wasn't mandated against anywhere in the rulebook.

posted by chicobangs at 12:07 PM on March 23

(Not saying it wasn't ethical, I'm saying it wasn't cheating.)

posted by chicobangs at 12:09 PM on March 23

Dusted> When Ruth set his records, MLB had a color barrier. This is not Ruth's disgrace. This was a disgrace of MLB, they are the ones who should be pinged with the asterisk, not Ruth. Conversely, what Bonds does, he brings upon himself.

posted by the red terror at 12:10 PM on March 23

Well - this could be it. All the other politiking aside, that's three knee surgeries in the last year and he's 40 year's old. He may never come back at 100%, and I have serious doubts about him being able to play in the NL without the DH if he does. Too bad, if he needs to retire as a Giant then he may have to do it sooner than expected. Remeber, at that age skills don't just gradually diminish - they tend to just disappear. Though this is Bonds we're talking about - he has shown the tendency to do the fantastic both when expected too, and when not.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:15 PM on March 23

This is an important point: It wasn't cheating when he did it. There were no rules against steroid use in MLB until very recently. None. MLB might not have had rules about steroids until recently, but the federal government did. Steroids are illegal in the United States unless prescribed by a doctor.

posted by the red terror at 12:20 PM on March 23

Steroids are illegal in the USA. No written rule banning steroids in MLB. MLB in USA. Case closed.

posted by garfield at 12:43 PM on March 23

Oh, okay. end of thread.

posted by chicobangs at 12:58 PM on March 23

chico, come on ?! The absence of a 'rule' does not make steroid use legal, which is the root of all 'no MLB rule banning steroids' arguments. The law of the land still applies, no matter how badly MLB wish it weren't the case.

posted by garfield at 01:11 PM on March 23

Case closed is so STLHAMMER.

posted by dusted at 01:17 PM on March 23

there's also no specific rule banning marijuana but it's still not allowed in baseball. that's because it's considered an illicit drug (like cocaine, lsd, etc.). and that's what steroids were considered until recently, an illicit drug. they don't test for illicit drugs and mlb only takes action if a player is arrested and convicted, pleads guilty or no contest.

posted by goddam at 01:27 PM on March 23

So then send Bonds to prison. garfield, my problem is that you're getting civic laws and baseball rules mixed up. There's no rule in baseball that says no freebasing, so if someone's freebasing in the dugout, they may get arrested and put in jail, but there's no way to penalize them in baseball (except maybe for conduct detrimental to the team of some such). Steroids were not covered under the rubric of baseball's rules, so the fact that Bonds & McGwire & Sosa & Giambi & Caminiti & the professor & mary ann all took them doesn't necessarily mean anything in the context of baseball. Now, if the drugs they took were illegal, then these people should be charged, and if guilty, convicted and prosecuted. But that's no business of baseball, where no rules regarding steroids existed.

posted by chicobangs at 02:30 PM on March 23

(Also, Blue Jays & Expos much, Mr. MLB=USA?)

posted by chicobangs at 02:42 PM on March 23

chico: I'm pretty sure that baseball has a subtance abuse policy that would cover dugout freebasing. At least, I'm pretty sure they do.

posted by NoMich at 03:08 PM on March 23

chico, I understand the black and white of the situation, but since steroids is a 'grey' issue from the get-go, black and white 'MLB rules vs. tort' distinctions don't really hold water. In other words, I'm not so much mixed up, as willfully blurring the line. Let me illustrate the 'grey' nature of the issue. Baseball's past interests(legacy, stats, etc) lie in not punishing Bonds, McGwire, etc. And yet baseball's future interests (fans know he wasn't playing fair, and 'integrity' is vital to any major sport's marketability) lie in punishing Bonds, McGwire, etc. So baseball is left wanting to punish Bonds with a rule they didn't have on the books to protect players like Bonds. they may get arrested and put in jail, but there's no way to penalize them in baseball (except maybe for conduct detrimental to the team of some such). and yet said player would undoubtedly be suspended, despite there not being a specific rule banning freebasing (great choice, btw). my point being the letter of the law is imperfect (and incomplete), but law enforcement of any denomination will find a way to punish. the professor & mary ann all took them doesn't necessarily mean anything in the context of baseball necessarily, no. but practically, ya darn tootin' it means something. (Also, Blue Jays & Expos much, Mr. MLB=USA?) Expos not so much. Ya caught me. i figured i'd scale my argument to America b/c of certain recent U.S. government action.

posted by garfield at 03:21 PM on March 23

...said player would undoubtedly be suspended... You know, I'd believe that if I could name anyone that was given any more than a slap on the wrist by baseball for a drug infraction. (Steve Howe and Darryl Strawberry are exhibits A and B, but there are many others.) The letter of the law is all that matters to the law. If it's vague, then it gets interpreted, and reason and logic barely touch the edges of the discussion. That's where lawyers get really rich. The fact that it was a grey issue for so long is what's brought the sport to this point, where the last decade's worth of glory is now called into question and the government is involved in a situation in which it had no place. Nobody wanted this. At least, no one in baseball. Your point about the past and future interests of baseball being at odds is important and valid, but the line between the law and the rules of the game are thick and clear, the same way there's a thick line between the constitution and Newton's laws of gravity and inertia. They occupy two different and not-always-overlapping spaces. And the Expos may be in the past, but McGwire and Bonds were hitting juiced homers in Montreal too. And Canseco's moon shot at Skydome in the ALCS seems almost quaint, eh?

posted by chicobangs at 04:01 PM on March 23

i hope that he misses the season. he doesn't deserve Babe Ruth's record. i hope that he never comes back. if he wasn't on steriods he would suck. He and other steriod users make the game of Baseball look bad and bud selig is the worst commishiner ever. McGwire was on steriods too. the all time season home run record should still be Roger Maris's. everyone acts like they it isn't odvious that all these people are on steriods. somebody should do something about it. Jose Canseco is doing the right thing for the ame of baseball!

posted by bombersslugger at 04:08 PM on March 23

Illeagal drugs of all kinds should be banned from all Pro sports-Test the athletes early and often. It should be a no tolerence policy. ----I am so tired of all of this quibbling about laws and rules and etc. Bottom line is if you are taking an illeagal drug you are breaking the law. In sticking to the law, the sports leagues should not tolerate ANY illeagal drugs- from spot to cocaine, speeds, roids, hormones, etc etc. etc.... Until we get to that point, in all sports, anything that is done is only a band-aid.....

posted by daddisamm at 04:18 PM on March 23

he doesn't deserve Babe Ruth's record. and which record would that be? the one that hank aaron already broke?

posted by goddam at 04:41 PM on March 23

If Bonds has "juiced up" over the years, then I would consider his "passing" Ruth's homer number, a fluke...He still deserves to be in the HALL OF Fame.. but given the current develoments, stopping before he passes the Babe would be a way to repect Ruth's achievement. If Bonds was to go on and break Aarons records that would be a big fat lie!!! So Barry quit while you are behind! Retire Barry, thats your best choice!

posted by daddisamm at 06:02 PM on March 23

I'm not sure that the drugs that Barry and company were taking were illegal at that time they took them. Not FDA-approved, does _not_ mean illegal! There are tons of "designer" drugs available on the sports medicine market. It's the reason that companies like Balco exist. The perjury thing is also pretty weak. It will be a his word against ex-girl's word type of thing. This is California....and, if Robert Blake can get off, so can Barry! Everyone talks about Barry's breaking the home run record as being the ultimate achievement in his career. I tend to think that what he did last season was _much_ more impressive. Setting single season records for: OBP, OPS, BB, and IBB. Plus, he was the oldest player to ever win a batting title.... and yet, it seemed that people were more interested in Ichiro's accomplishment. See "The Incomparable Barry Bonds" for further details on this statistically amazing season. One for the records, for sure! Noone can convince me that watching Barry swing a bat is anything less than witnessing a work of art. It's not just the power that is impressive, but the timing and speed. Poetry in motion. Regardless of what you think of the man, if you've seen him play, there will not be another like him for some time to come... if ever.

posted by slackerman at 01:28 AM on March 24

Just a minor note -- while possession of drugs is illegal, no one goes to jail for past use of an illegal drug. So Bonds use of drugs in the past is pretty much a nonissue in the eyes of the law. So all you Barry haters, you will have to find another way to bring him down. By the way, if that weren't the case, then I want our last two Presidents thrown in jail for their past drug use.

posted by bperk at 07:49 AM on March 24

Agreed, watching Barry Bonds swing a bat is a work of art -- in precisely the same way that the Ultimate Warrior's ring entrance was a "work of art," in the same way that Rick Rude's ring introduction was a "work of art," in the same way that Ben Johnson's glowing eyes were "works of art." Barry Bonds was - is - and will hereafter always be known as an anabolic cheat. It is not Bonds-hating to say that. It is simply conventional wisdom.

posted by the red terror at 08:34 AM on March 24

From what I have seen, His ex-mistress, may not be the only pergury wittness. It typically takes more that one to prove that someone lied. We dont know exactly what was siad to the Grand Jury. They are supposedly talking "deal" with his Trainer. For me its hard to call a possible purjury case against Bonds "weak" without seeing it first. One doesnt get thrown in jail for past drug use-that is true-My point is that rules should be in place that would ban anybody for life if they tested positive for any illeagal drugs. period

posted by daddisamm at 09:26 AM on March 24

I wont miss Barry when he is gone--Somebody will fill the void that he will leave!

posted by daddisamm at 09:29 AM on March 24

Sports Illustrated's Tim Layden writes: "Despite what [Bonds] says, media has lionized the slugger."

posted by the red terror at 09:52 AM on March 24

BTW-many have said that steroids doesnt help hand -eye -coridnation--well that may be true--human growth hormon (not being tested for) does impove vision to the level of the new surguries------People who use human growth hormone for long periods of time me need "some help" HMMMM Lets see, I wonder if Palmero will let Barry to some Viagra comercial to make up for income loss!

posted by daddisamm at 10:22 AM on March 24

BTW-many have said that steroids doesnt help hand -eye -coridnation--well that may be true--human growth hormon (not being tested for) does impove vision to the level of the new surguries------People who use human growth hormone for long periods of time me need "some help" HMMMM Lets see, I wonder if Palmero will let Barry to some Viagra comercial to make up for income loss!

posted by daddisamm at 10:22 AM on March 24

My guess is that Barry will make out okay. Whatever he did and regardless of the ethics involved, no one will ever accuse Barry Bonds of being stupid or naive, and certainly he's not exactly blowing his paychecks on hookers and blow.

posted by chicobangs at 11:14 AM on March 24

no he was just keeping a mistress--good investment

posted by daddisamm at 01:45 PM on March 24

A mistress is a massive improvement over hookers. With a mistress, provided you fork over the denero, you get the safety from an assumed STD with a hooker. You also benefit from her knowing what you like and how you like it. Blow, well, that's a different animal.

posted by garfield at 02:17 PM on March 24

Perhaps someone can help me get a handle on this steroids thing, and how it provides an unfair advantage over the players of yesteryear. Don't bigger gloves, better equipment, better nutrition and workout regimens, eye surgery, etc., etc. also assist today's players? If it's a legal issue, then why almost no mention of the use of amphetamines? They are actually excluded from MLBs new "get tough" drug policy. The use of "bennies" has been described as rampant for more than forty years. I realize they aren't used to build muscle, but if they don't enhance performance, why have so many used them for so long? I've read in a couple of places that Cal Ripken used them. If true, doesn't that taint his consecutive games played record? Apparently, nobody has any idea what players were or were not using in the 20s. They weren't using steroids, but there were plenty of drugs around that might have provided a boost. Or, what if a player (Babe Ruth) had a beer or a shot of liquor to help him relax or mitigate a hangover. That, too, would be a PED. And illegal. At the time. Maybe we should asterisk the Babe's stats. I wonder what Honus Wagner was up to. Hmmm...

posted by D-Jack at 06:18 PM on March 24

Yes. The Bigger Gloves Senate Committee is meeting next week to get to the bottom of that scandal.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:20 PM on March 24

Lighten up, Doc. My post, for the most part, was a joke; much like last week's committee meeting. I would like to know your thoughts on amphetamines, though.

posted by D-Jack at 07:37 AM on March 25

nobody has any idea what players were or were not using in the 20s I've read in a couple of places that Babe Ruth injected crushed bull testicles.

posted by rocketman at 08:14 AM on March 25

nobody has any idea what players were or were not using in the 20s Probably because they were unsuccessful, and like a lot of failed ideas, were quickly dropped and forgotten. It's just like betting schemes that don't work -- at first people get excited about them because of the fantastical promise, but once people get the idea they're wasting their time flushing money down the toilet, they turn their backs on it. If there is a proven method that successfully gives athletes an edge over nother athletes -- be it in the 1920s or the 1990s -- athletes and their trainers would know about it.

posted by the red terror at 10:41 AM on March 25

I would like to know your thoughts on amphetamines, though Well, that was also something that I thought of in regard to Bunning's remarks that day. Considering the use of "greenies" as depicted in the Jim Bouton book Ball Four (other people seem to be thinking along these lines, as demonstrated on the Bouton website's questions of the week of late), there are probably some comparisons, or maybe you can think of that kind of drug use a precursor to other "performance enhancers." The first guy I remember looking at and wondering if he was on steroids was not in the nineties but was Brian Downing of the California Angels, I don't know that he was, but I remember thinking that at the time.

posted by chris2sy at 10:52 AM on March 25

Regarding "greenies", Jim Bouton describes them as "performance enablers"; not performance enhancers. It seems to me that if the use of a drug enables one to play better than he would have otherwise, that drug must be a PED. If the use of steroids is cheating, the use of greenies must be, also. Both are illegal without a prescription. Both can negatively impact ones health. I actually have less disdain for the steroid user, since he still has to hit the weights to gain any benefit. Even then, there's no guarantee he'll get the desired effect. (see Jeremy Giambi) The other guy just pops a few pills and...voila! I guess most people just want to give the greats of yesteryear a pass on the morals thing. And thirty or forty years from now, that generation will probably extend the same courtesy to the players of today. Hell, steroids might even be legal before then.

posted by D-Jack at 11:57 PM on March 25

The other guy just pops a few pills and...voila! and voila what? he's awake? i'm not a fan of "greenies" or some of the other more dubious uppers and would like to see them banned from the game. but to say they are worse in the cheating sense than steroids because you don't have to work out to achieve the desired results of the drug is ridiculous.

posted by goddam at 12:44 AM on March 26

and voila what? he's awake? Not just awake, but more alert. So maybe he hits the pitch he would have missed. Or hits it more squarely. BTW-I didn't say greenies are worse; only that I have less disdain for the cheater who still has to put in the work.

posted by D-Jack at 11:24 AM on March 26

Oh the deeper we get into this, 'roids, greenies, Sudafed, really strong coffee mixed with coke, different surgeries that make you throw harder, the more some will believe that everyone's a cheater; ergo no one is. So draw the line somewhere, but it's not like these things are all the same.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:46 AM on March 26

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