Yankee Hating: It's not just for Boston anymore.

i was wondering when you were going to post this.

posted by goddam at 11:38 PM - reply - flag:

oh! all the pressure to keep up the Yankee Red Sox rivalry! ;) i thought it was kind of interesting, especially since the site is trying to spin it a little further than Boston and a little more than the trite, bored "Yankees Suck!" stuff. Admission of a nerd: i've got more up my sleeve. i'm officially a SpoFi geek. i bookmark stuff for later postings and then try to sew it up with other backup, supplementary links to round it off into a decent post. i've got folders on my browser for this stuff alone. which reminds me, i have a link to check on to see if the site (future link) developed.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:48 PM - reply - flag:

wow, you're a gigantic dork! It's amazing how quickly he went Anti-Yankee after originally wanting to be traded to New York. I wish I could believe that there were people in the rivalry that cared that much, but seeing stuff like that (and on the flipside, ARod and his Boston allegience untill being traded to NY) makes me skeptical. One day I want to see someone from either side, after five years elsewhere, come up for free agency, and turn a team down just because they were once hated rivals. Like a former Sox player saying "oh hell no" to George. Do you think there are any guys that would actually do that?

posted by Bernreuther at 12:19 AM - reply - flag:

Unfortunately, you get thrown out of Safeco Field for wearing stuff like this. I wish I were making that up. Our team may be 6-13, but it's a civil, family-friendly 6-13! Sheesh.

posted by jeffmshaw at 12:25 AM - reply - flag:

Funny stuff, but I would never wear one. The only reason I want the yankees to lose is because the red sox have to go through them. Besides, I enjoy wearing my boston hat too much. One day I want to see someone from either side, after five years elsewhere, come up for free agency, and turn a team down just because they were once hated rivals. I think too much money is involved now. So when a yankee or red sox player leaves the team, its often the other that can pay them the most. Plus, once a player leaves, he often has sour feelings (ex. clemens leaving boston). I do think that while on each team some of the hatred is real. It would be hard to play for either team and not be caught up in the fans passion.

posted by justgary at 12:39 AM - reply - flag:

There's a spot on YES where Derek Jeter claims to love playing on the road "where they're hating us and booing us." The Bums are used to it by now, bfd.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:19 AM - reply - flag:

re: Schilling. Once he signed to the Red Sox, he had the obligatory press conference and he was asked what he thought of the Yankees, to which he replied, "I guess I hate the Yankees now". ARod did the same thing at his press conference when asked about Boston. I don't think it's like the days of past. Eckersley, and sometimes Rice, often talk about how in the 70s, the players really actually truly hated each other (and often pummeled each other) and nowadays, some of them (Yankees/Red Sox) are friends. Manny and Enrique Wilson are fully-disclosed pals. Nomar doesn't hate Jeter. I do sort of think Pedro hates Posada, especially after that Game 3 head-pointing, posada-talking-about-pedro's- mom stuff. And I wouldn't doubt that some of the Yankees hate Pedro and/or Manny after last year. I like that. I like that they hate each other as much as we hate the other team. One of my least favorite things is when Nomar is on 2nd and he's all giggly with Jeter. But let's face it. The quickest way to endear yourself to your new team is to come out and say "I hate the enemy now". Wild cheers, we instantly love Curt Schilling. With Schilling though, I think he uses it to drive him. Just from the sort of things he's said, he's a fierce competitor. He's even said that if Pedro goes out there and has a fantastic game, he's going to try to out-do Pedro and he's going to use Pedro as a motivator, a competitor in a way. He's got a close personal alliance with the fans (closer than just about any athlete I can think of, off the top of my head) and he knows the fans hate the Yankees. Plus, don't forget, Schilling met the Yankees in the World Series a couple years ago. I am sure he'd be friendly to anyone from NYY who approached him, I just think Schilling is kind of old school in the way he approaches things like that. I like it.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:20 AM - reply - flag:

Agreed. I'm sure he wouldn't wish anything bad on the Yankee members individually, but as a team he's hoping they get crushed. As am I. PS: I'm not a hat guy. When are the t-shirts arriving? ;)

posted by sixpacker at 06:47 AM - reply - flag:

The funny thing is, when Schilling was spotted wearing that hat, a lot of people thought it was a real Yankee cap and called into Boston sports radio to complain about it. From the other side, the whole phenomenon is at best confounding and at worst irritating. Sox hating just isn't the cottage industry for Yankees fans that Yankee hating is for Boston fans. I was always of the opinion that Sox bashing was mostly retalitory. That is, the hatred of the Yankees (and their fans) on the side of the Bostonians was so strong that we were forced to respond in kind. Plus, don't forget, Schilling met the Yankees in the World Series a couple years ago. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. He and Randy Johnson murdered the Yankee lineup. You don't hate what you can beat. You usually don't give it a second thought. This is why Schilling's antics smack to me of pure pandering to the various yahoos that populate the Boston sports landscape. Heck, how many endorsement deals does he have already? He knows how much money it's worth to be a popular figure around here.

posted by Jugwine at 08:14 AM - reply - flag:

One day I want to see someone from either side, after five years elsewhere, come up for free agency, and turn a team down just because they were once hated rivals. isn't that what pettitte did?

posted by goddam at 08:15 AM - reply - flag:

oh, and what jugwine said.

posted by goddam at 08:17 AM - reply - flag:

Well, Pettitte was only 1 month or so removed, but yeah, kind of like that. If his Astro contract ran out and the Sox tried to sign him and he said that, or if 45-year old Tim Wakefield, having been shipped back to the NL for a few years, was offered a deal by the Yankees and told them to shove it up their asses, that kind of response would impress me.

posted by Bernreuther at 08:33 AM - reply - flag:

What's wrong with yahoo-pandering?

posted by sixpacker at 08:36 AM - reply - flag:

Nothing, if you're a yahoo. ;) Seriously, though, all I mean is that you shouldn't confuse actual feelings of "hate" with a calculated attempt to manipulate fans into increasing your own popularity and therefore your endorsement dollars.

posted by Jugwine at 08:46 AM - reply - flag:

Understood. I hadn't thought about it that way. If he is doing it just to increase his own popularity, then I've lost some respect for him. My original thought was that he was just doing it to play along... for the fun of it. I could still be right, but now I'm not so sure.

posted by sixpacker at 09:14 AM - reply - flag:

There's no Blue Jays version. That sucks.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:18 AM - reply - flag:

The funny thing is, when Schilling was spotted wearing that hat, a lot of people thought it was a real Yankee cap and called into Boston sports radio to complain about it. Because it looks just like the Yankee logo and we've never seen it before. It's new. I was always of the opinion that Sox bashing was mostly retalitory. Like you said, you don't hate what you can beat. If the threat wasn't there, the fans wouldn't care what we were shouting about the Yankees. As much as they hate to admit it, NYY fans care/worry about the Red Sox. It's on nyyfans.com. It's in the stands at BOTH parks. This rivalry: it's a two way street. In my travels, I've seen "Boston Red SUX" t-shirts, I've seen 1918 t-shirts. Seriously, though, all I mean is that you shouldn't confuse actual feelings of "hate" with a calculated attempt to manipulate fans into increasing your own popularity and therefore your endorsement dollars. I don't think Schilling (or even ARod conversely) are out to manipulate anyone by saying "I hate the [rivals] now" You're over-stating it. You're over complicating it. Fan cameraderie. That's all it is. NY fans want their team to want to kick Boston's ass and vice versa. It's important to the fans, but it's not manipulative. As far as Schilling's endorsement deals: It's odd to see an actual Red Sox player in a commercial, I'll give you that. Jeter and Steinbrenner can shake their asses in a conga-line all over Visa. Giambi romps around doucing himself with deodorant and hawking Nike in Yankee pinstripes. But one Red Sox player, Schilling, starts endorsing Dunkin Donuts and Ford (I don't even know if they are even national spots. I am under the impression they are Boston area/regional commercial runs), and all of the sudden, he's selling out, he's using a statement of "I hate the Yankees" in manipulation of the masses in order to increase endorsement dollars. Really? I actually think being very verbal about hating the Yankees (or any team with a large following) can hurt you. You alienate a particular market (see Affleck, Ben while promoting Jersey Girl told Katie Couric he didn't want Yankee fans to see his movie. Bad move.) Just for my own edification since I haven't seen it in your profile or directly stated: Jugwine: new Yankee fan?

posted by jerseygirl at 09:58 AM - reply - flag:

I hate both teams and their fans. This may come as a surprise to MLB, ESPN, Fox, and a lot of people on the upper east coast but there is baseball outside of that rivalry (as far as I'm concerned, if the pitcher doesn't bat it's not real baseball anyway). I'm pulling for Baltimore because I figure it will piss the most people off.

posted by mick at 10:10 AM - reply - flag:

if the pitcher doesn't bat it's not real baseball anyway I gotta agree with that, as an outsider. especially for a game so steeped in tradition and symmetry.

posted by garfield at 10:13 AM - reply - flag:

This may come as a surprise to ... a lot of people on the upper east coast but there is baseball outside of that rivalry i hate that general assumption about east coast fans.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:22 AM - reply - flag:

[rhythmic finger snapping] "When you're a Jet, you're ALWAYS a Jet ..." Sing it with me now!

posted by jeffmshaw at 10:32 AM - reply - flag:

What do you mean by "new"? Who are you as a supporter of the opposition to judge my fitness as a fan? Goodness knows, anyone who follows them after '96 I must be a bandwagon jumper. I grew up hating Roger Clemens and Wade Boggs only to see them in Pinstripes, is that "good enough"? How many Billy Martin firings did I have to have lived through to be a "real fan"? Half my family is from or lives in the Bronx, as did I during a pair of championship seasons, but what difference does that make? I'm a displaced Yankee fan so I must be "new" and therefore a "poser" or a "frontrunner" or whatever other epithet you'd like to use. It's in the stands at BOTH parks Yes, it's in the stands at Yankee stadium, and yes Yankee fans want their team to beat the Red Sox more than they want them to beat, say, the Devil Rays, but Devil Rays fans simply don't come to the Bronx with their "Yankees Suck" gear and their chants and whatnot. When Yankee fans in the Stadium chant "1918" it's because they want the Sox fans two rows ahead of them to shut up. Granted, I've never been to a Yankees/Sox game at Fenway, so I can't comment on what it it's like then, but I have been to more Yankee games than I can care to count and at exactly none of them when the Sox were out of town did the "Boston Sucks" chant break out. Nor did they sell "Boston Sucks" T-shirts outside the stadium during those days. Heck, I've seen Sox fans wear their Yankees Suck garb in Sox/A's games in Oakland -- that doesn't make any sense! Maybe my memory is clouded by time, but while I was living in the City, I can't remember ever seeing a "Boston/Nomar/Pedro Sucks" shirt for sale at an actual store. But it's a five minute walk to the mall from where I sit to get any sort of anti-yankee paraphenalia I'd want. Wearing a Boston hat in NY wouldn't cause anyone to bat an eye if you're below 161st street. However, around here I can't even shovel my driveway in my Yankee knit cap without getting a comment. See, you can't judge the rivalry just on how fans act when the teams play each other. You have to look at the whole picture just to see how lopsided the obsession is.

posted by Jugwine at 10:36 AM - reply - flag:

I'm an AL fan, but I can't stand the fact that the pitchers don't bat. It's always struck me as being kind of cowardly.

posted by sixpacker at 10:40 AM - reply - flag:

Well, jeebus. First off, let's get this out of the way, don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call you any names. Stick with the facts, son. Don't start weaving a creative story out of something I didn't say in the first place. Nothing was implied by it at all. I wasn't judging you for chrissakes. In the scheme of things regarding following this team, I'd be considered a new Red Sox fan too: I was an embryo, fetus, infant and toddler (in that order, phew) in the mid to late 70s when it was rough, too young to fully appreciate the 1986 suffering and of course, there was that high school bout with basketball I had during the early to mid 90s. I think I'm actually kind of fun with the Yankee fans I know in person in the area. I can take the teasing and prodding, and I can also give it. I'm not a Yankees suck chanter or shirt wearer. Although I did buy a Clemens Suck sticker after a particularly fantastic Clemens outing at Fenway once. And I'm not painting you with this brush, so chill, but I also find I know a hell of a lot more about their team than the Yankee fans I know personally. But go on and presume I just called you and all of your NY ancestors into question and also called you names. Enjoy. I've got a lunch date and I'm tired of talking.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:08 AM - reply - flag:

I apologize if I took offense too quickly. I tend to have a hair trigger on that sort of thing because I've had that argument too many times and I've had to defend myself as a Yankee fan in the Boston area against those sorts of charges more often than I'd like -- particularly from people who proclaim that anyone outside of NY who is a Yankee fan is shameless bandwagon-jumper. I think it also comes from having to bottle it up on occasion because I don't want to disagree with the guy who's cutting my hair when he talks about how this is going to be "the year" (for example). Anyway, please disregard the rant directed towards you and chalk it up to an unfortunate miscommunication. I also find I know a hell of a lot more about their team than the Yankee fans I know personally. And I find I know a heck of a lot more about the Sox than many of their fans. It's always funny when I end up telling them who pitched yesterday or that so-and-so was put on the DL.

posted by Jugwine at 11:35 AM - reply - flag:

shameless bandwagon-jumper

posted by yerfatma at 11:45 AM - reply - flag:

Looks like this could be the year for the Brewers. *whistles*

posted by rocketman at 11:57 AM - reply - flag:

Okay! (okay) Blue Jays! (blue jays) Let's (let's) Play! (play) Ball!

posted by grum@work at 12:20 PM - reply - flag:

Are (these) the echoes in that empty cavern of a once-proud stadium?

posted by yerfatma at 02:21 PM - reply - flag:

Ouch. So true. Actually, that's how the song goes. There is a repeat of each word by the crowd after the voice in the song sings it. It's quite humourous to see 15,000-25,000 people all standing up doing organized stretching while belting out the lyrics. (See point 18.)

posted by grum@work at 03:15 PM - reply - flag:

Unfortunately, you get thrown out of Safeco Field for wearing stuff like this. I wish I were making that up. jeffmshaw, I have never been to a game in Seattle, but I will always remember a story about a Seahawks-Lions game that 2 of my friends went to at the Kingdome. They were amazed at how civil the crowd was until a Lions fan directly behind them stood and shouted "Run you motherfucker, run!" when Barry was handed the ball. He said the fans (mostly parents and children) were mortfied and most of them looked directly at their section in disgust.

posted by usfbull at 04:16 PM - reply - flag:

Wow! That's a great story, usfbull, and I can totally see it happening. You also get thrown out of Safeco for wearing shirts with any profanity on them, even "The Best Damn Sports Show Period" gear.

posted by jeffmshaw at 04:37 PM - reply - flag:

i found the seattle fans to be rather timid as well. i went to a yankee-mariner game at the kingdome in '98. i was walking up to my second-from-the-last-row seat just as tino hit a home run. i fully expected to be pelted with insults and possibly food items (i was wearing my yanks road jersey and hat) but all i got was one "boo yankees" whispered at me. in '00 i was at a game in safeco (think the A's were in town). 4 or 5 "mom-like" women sat down next to me and warned me that they could get pretty rowdy during the game. well, a mariner hit a home run and these women got rowdy alright. they broke into a kind of golf-clap and said "yeah" a few times.

posted by goddam at 04:47 PM - reply - flag:

Hahaha. Can we talk about west coast sports fans? I've only got one data point, but it is a beaut: going to see a Bruins-Sharks game at the SJ Arena with an expat Boston fan. We got Bruins away jerseys for the occasion, fully expecting to get spit on, punched out, and thrown in jail. Instead, well... A woman who yelled, "Boo! Hiss!" at us from a car window -- with a big sappy oh-isn't-this-good-fun smile, mind you -- was rendered speechless by the response ("Fuck you!" "You suck!") None of the Sharks logo-wearing minions inside the arena understood why there were so many people there in ECAC and Big East jerseys When I actually spilled my beer on the logo-wearing droid in front of me (an accident, honest to god...I'd paid for it, after all), rather than punching me in the head, he smiled and said, "Oh, that happens all the time! It's because these seats are practically on top of each other, blah blah blah..." And that is quite possibly why the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry assumes an importance that many westcoastians just don't get. Don't worry about it, just tell yourselves that it's got nothing to do with the game -- it's just part of its pageantry.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:24 PM - reply - flag:

You ever wear a dodger cap to Pac Bell, or a Giant cap to Chavez Ravine? ...the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry assumes an importance that many westcoastians just don't get... I beg to differ.

posted by lilnemo at 09:47 PM - reply - flag:

Yeah. Having lived in NoCal and Boston, it's not that west coasters don't get it. It's that hockey isn't very important in NoCal. Now... I will say that sports occupies a far more important position in civic life in Boston than it does in San Francisco. In general, Boston fans are more fanatical. But the most fanatical NoCal sports fans match the craziest Bostonians.

posted by Bryant at 10:29 PM - reply - flag:

agreed bryant.

posted by lilnemo at 01:46 AM - reply - flag:

I took one hell of a beating when I wore a Yankee hat to Jason Giambi's first games back in Oakland... especially the wednesday night game (game 2). Oakland does Dollar Wednesdays, which is dollar tickets and dollar hot dogs, and that's when the Raider fans come out. It got really rowdy, really loud, and I got a lot of free popcorn. I found a seat in front of a pretty funny guy though, after I was a good sport about him booing loudly directly in my ear we ended up betting, and I came out ahead 3 beers. But those Oakland fans, even on the tuesday night, can get plenty rowdy and passionate. Lots of Yankees Suck/Jeter Swallows shirts, swearing, food throwing, fake money throwing. And that drum. Damn that drum. At least the annoying "(dum da dum dum da dum) Tejada!" chant is dead. Against non prime opponents that park is only half full, but they do have some excellent fans.

posted by Bernreuther at 09:49 AM - reply - flag:

My question is this: should the Red Sox go to and win the World Series this year, would the Yankees fans be the bigger man and say "Way to go"? Because we already know how the Sox fans respond to NYY championships. I'd be intrigued to see what kind of a favor is returned.

posted by rocketman at 09:53 AM - reply - flag:

if this is "the year" i'd be intrigued to watch if boston fans burn their city down.

posted by goddam at 10:01 AM - reply - flag:

woosh. this is going to be a long one. My question is this: should the Red Sox go to and win the World Series this year, would the Yankees fans be the bigger man and say "Way to go"? Some would. Some wouldn't. We all know, as with any fan base, there are the knuckleheaded jerks and the decent fans in every bunch. If the Red Sox won, I can see it divided: Some would applaud, and some would turn around and taunt with "NOW YOU HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER 86 YEARS!" Don't think it [post WS win bashing] would affect me, although I'd like to be in the position to experience it :) Because we already know how the Sox fans respond to NYY championships. This past season it was different. The fan base really truly honest to god felt "that should have been us in the WS this year" so when they Yankees didn't sweep in and win the WS, it was a bit of schadenfreude, because again, "should've been us there". It wasn't like some years in the past where Boston didn't make it to post-season, or was knocked out in the ALCS. But you know, for the good Yankee fans, I was happy for them, despite my own personal shock dismay and sadness. Their team got to the Series again -- a delight we Bostonians haven't known for years. if this is "the year" i'd be intrigued to watch if boston fans burn their city down. Literally, no. Figuratively, yes. And may I add: sadly. It's the closest to an apocalypse that this city would know. Anything that happened after either Superbowl victory would look like a picnic. The parade would be days long and millions deep. 5 days after the win, we'd be doing funeral processions. There are so many older folks who have said, "I just want to see them win once and then I can die". I'll tell you what. For the last couple years, I save vacation time for October and November, just in case. If that's not hope and belief, I don't know what is.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:22 AM - reply - flag:

i'm not sure i would say "way to go", but i wouldn't be an ass about it either. i guess it would depend on boston's reaction. i know all fans would applaud their victory but you'd probably get the knuckleheads that would revel more in the yankees loss (and yes, i know it works both ways). that's how things seem to be going lately. there's a "your town sucks, our scene rules" attitude. it's not enough anymore to cheer for your team without also denegrating the opposing city, team, and players. alex at bronx banter has a pretty good take on the whole thing (and says it much better than i can).

posted by goddam at 10:51 AM - reply - flag:

Bernreuther, the drummer boys are gone, sadly. The game just isn't the same without them.

posted by dusted at 10:52 AM - reply - flag:

Sunday, April 25, 2004

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