FanDuel - WFBC

October 28, 2013

Red Sox Even World Series at 2: Left fielder Jonny Gomes, a late lineup addition, hit a three-run homer off reliever Seth Maness in a 4-2 Boston Red Sox win over the St. Louis Cardinals, evening the World Series at two games apiece. "If I'm fortunate enough to get a mistake, the bat's going to come through the zone hot and it worked out," Gomes said.

posted by rcade to baseball at 10:28 AM - 40 comments

Jesus... even if the Cardinals go on to win this series, I almost think David Ortiz is the MVP regardless. 2 for 2 today so far (and almost had a GS in game 1), had a HR in game 2, and his slash lines are now .700/.714/.1400. It probably won't happen (uh, because the Sox will win of course and he'll be the MVP on the winning team!) but there is precedent for an MVP on a losing team.

It'd be really nice if someone not named Ortiz would show up at the plate for the Sox, because the Cardinals are rightly scared of him (giving him the IBB treatment like Barry Bonds got), but there's such a drop-off in the other 8 slots in the order, it's depressing to look at:


J Ellsbury CF 2 0 0 0 0 0 .214 .267 .214
D Nava RF 2 0 0 0 0 0 .250 .250 .375
D Pedroia 2B 2 0 0 0 0 2 .231 .286 .308
D Ortiz 1B 2 0 2 0 0 0 .700 .714 1.400
J Gomes LF 1 0 0 0 1 0 .000 .100 .000
X Bogaerts 3B 1 0 0 0 1 0 .182 .231 .364
S Drew SS 1 0 0 0 0 0 .100 .100 .100
D Ross C 1 0 0 0 0 1 .200 .200 .200
C Buchholz P 1 0 0 0 0 1 .000 .000 .000

posted by hincandenza at 09:54 PM on October 27

Goddammit. Bases loaded, two outs, and the PH doesn't even take a single pitch? Assholes.

Unless Clay already said he was done, i don't like that PH move at all; the 25% greater chance of getting a hit isn't worth the bullpen going 5+ tonight after last night. With no outs or 1 out, maybe, but 2 outs?

posted by hincandenza at 09:58 PM on October 27

I don't care that this isn't a game thread... I think I splooged myself after that Gomes HR.

posted by hincandenza at 10:48 PM on October 27

I wonder if there have ever been back to back World Series games that have ended without a traditional put out. An obstruction call and a pickoff - crazy series!

posted by dfleming at 07:22 AM on October 28

World Series amusement: FOX managed to miss the pickoff throw because its cameras were focused on a young blonde female Cardinals fan in the stands; the KMOX commentator (and Tim McCarver) questioned why Napoli was holding Wong at first base, only to eat their words.

posted by etagloh at 09:26 AM on October 28

That is the best pickoff I've ever not seen. Or wish I'd seen. Or seen on replay.

But really, what the hell is the runner doing? With one of the best hitters in the game at the plate stealing a base shouldn't even be a thought. I suppose he was cheating to get a jump in the event of a hit ... poor decision, worse execution.

posted by cixelsyd at 09:42 AM on October 28

because its cameras were focused on a young blonde female Cardinals fan in the stands

The Heidi game in miniature.

posted by beaverboard at 09:56 AM on October 28

The thing that I love about the World Series above other championship series is that, save travel days, the teams play every day. Just fun to watch a series go back and forth and know that they'll be back at it the next night, with last night's narrative (crazy obstruction call!) quickly being replaced by tonight's (pick off to end the game!).

posted by holden at 10:57 AM on October 28

After the last two games, it's time to list all the other unusual methods remaining to end a game:
(snagged from another forum with a couple additions)

  • Caught stealing

  • Double play with tying run on base

  • Triple play

  • Walk off fielder's choice

  • Walk off error

  • Winning run walked in

  • Winning run balked in

  • Walkoff fan interference

  • Last out for batting out of order

  • Baserunner hit by batted ball

  • Batter/runner hit by batted ball

  • Catcher's interference with bases loaded

  • Wild pitch on intentional walk

  • Tying run scores, ruled out, for last out of game, on appeal at third base

  • Fielder throws a glove at ball, advancing winning run from first

  • Batter/runner who hit game winning HR passes another baserunner

  • Fielder catches fair/foul ball & goes out of play (into the stands or dugout), winning run advances home on umpire ruling

  • Swinging strikeout of final batter, passed ball, winning run scores from third

posted by grum@work at 11:01 AM on October 28

posted by grum@work at 11:08 AM on October 28

Caught stealing
Amazing!

Double play with tying run on base
Amazing!

Triple play
Amazing!

Walk off fielder's choice
I think this would be good, I'm assuming they went for the double play and didn't get it.

Walk off error
This would suck.

Winning run walked in
The most anticlimactic way to end a game.

Winning run balked in
Do not want.

Walkoff fan interference
Oh my.

Last out for batting out of order
When is the last time this has happened?

Baserunner hit by batted ball
I would rather not see this.

Batter/runner hit by batted ball
This would take some effort

Catcher's interference with bases loaded
I hate all of the Buckner-type moments.

Wild pitch on intentional walk
It seems like this one could happen. Hate.

Tying run scores, ruled out, for last out of game, on appeal at third base
Either the umpire or the runner gets roasted by fans. Hate

Fielder throws a glove at ball, advancing winning run from first
Dammit, Prince!

Batter/runner who hit game winning HR passes another baserunner
In the hypothetical, this is pretty amusing.

Fielder catches fair/foul ball & goes out of play (into the stands or dugout), winning run advances home on umpire ruling
I think the rule would be changed.

Swinging strikeout of final batter, passed ball, winning run scores from third
Pretty interesting. I'm on board.

posted by tron7 at 11:33 AM on October 28

Caught stealing
Amazing!

It's already happened!

To a hall of fame player!

To end game 7 and the series!

Against the Cardinals!

posted by grum@work at 12:16 PM on October 28

We need to break out Unassisted Triple Play as a separate or sub-possibility there because they are awesome.

posted by yerfatma at 12:16 PM on October 28

It's already happened!

Last night's play would be listed as CS, correct?

Also, that's pretty crazy. Did not know that.

posted by tron7 at 12:37 PM on October 28

Last night's play would be listed as CS, correct?

Nope. It's listed as a pick-off. The distinction is if the runner is caught during the attempt to steal the next base.

posted by grum@work at 12:51 PM on October 28

The strike zone is just a joke in this series, either way; the low or outside strike just comes and goes at the whim of an apparently insane umpire, mutating from inning to inning. We demand robot umpires!

Also shitting the bed at their jobs: Fox's production crew, with their timely camera work, lingering crowd shots, extensive in-game interviews, and disappearing/reappearing pitch counter and PitchFX guide. The last is especially funny, when McCarver is saying "just did get a piece of the plate" when the replay and PitchFX show the ball about 8" outside.

The Red Sox are in decent shape being tied 2-2 with a best of 3 finishing in Fenway... but they could have won this series already barring two bad defensive plays. And maybe if someone other than Papi was getting hits.

In any case, I don't know if my heart can take any more of these close games and wild finishes. It's a goddamned emotional rollercoaster!

posted by hincandenza at 12:54 PM on October 28

Maybe one or two more:

Homerun ball hits roof/speakers/catwalks in play, is caught to end game.

Umpire interference in the infield, allowing a runner to advance home.

posted by dfleming at 12:55 PM on October 28

Strange series. 2-2, yet if either team had pulled off a couple of plays, or avoided a few mistakes, a sweep by either team would be possible (or at least holding a commanding 3-1 lead).

As a Red Sox fan, I was happy with the pick-off, of course. But I kind of feel ripped off. In game 3, even though there seemed to be no other way to call the obstruction play, I felt like the game ended in an awful way. Not joy, not disappointment, just empty and confused. In this game, I was really looking forward to Uehara vs. Beltran. Fandom aside, great baseball. And yet it didn't happen. I could easily see Uehara striking Beltran out. And I could easily see Beltran hitting a 2 run homer to tie it. We'll never know.

I still feel the Cardinals are in the better position, but I'm happy the Red Sox didn't let game 3 linger and just roll over. I probably should have known better.

posted by justgary at 01:01 PM on October 28

The strike zone is just a joke in this series, either way

I thought last night was way better than Saturday night, but that might be damning with faint praise.

posted by yerfatma at 01:09 PM on October 28

I would like to Mention an unusual end game scenario my friend proposed that I call The Spaceman's Revenge: last out is a strike-out on three straight eephus pitches.

posted by Joey Michaels at 01:17 PM on October 28

The last is especially funny, when McCarver is saying "just did get a piece of the plate" when the replay and PitchFX show the ball about 8" outside.

I'm willing to call this "artistic license" by McCarver when a pitch he didn't think was in the zone was called a strike and he has to call it as the ump called it.

Are we placing bets on which of the items on the grum list will happen? I'd like to take Fielder catches fair/foul ball & goes out of play (into the stands or dugout), winning run advances home on umpire ruling, but not until they go back to Fenway.

posted by bender at 01:34 PM on October 28

Can I add my scenario to the strange ending pool?

I would have to say this falls into the "Would Suck" category, but we need an option for "Player forgets to touch home base after hitting a home run".

If we were being extra nasty, this could happen during extra innings on a walk-off homer.

posted by jeremias at 02:50 PM on October 28

Oh - bunt foul on the third strike. Followed by your forced retirement.

posted by dfleming at 03:09 PM on October 28

I would have to say this falls into the "Would Suck" category, but we need an option for "Player forgets to touch home base after hitting a home run".

grumble grumble Matt Holliday 2007 grumble grumble

posted by LionIndex at 03:39 PM on October 28

The strike zone is just a joke in this series, either way; the low or outside strike just comes and goes at the whim of an apparently insane umpire, mutating from inning to inning. We demand robot umpires!

Here's the pitch-by-pitch data from last night. The inside strike to lefties is where it's most marginal, but that map looks better than the outside strikes that appeared dodgy on the Fox tracker.

posted by etagloh at 03:44 PM on October 28

I think the not-touching-home-plate thing on a walk-off would be the worst, since it'd be a ticky tack foul with no real purpose; if the obstruction was controversial, calling a player out for missing a plate no fielder could even tag him at would be Joycean in its idiocy.

On the other hand, such a play couldn't ever be a loss, since the hitter would be at worst the winning run- if he missed home plate, then all preceding runs scored anyway (unless it was a solo shot), to either tie or go ahead before the hitter crossed the plate. Now, something like "2 run homerun in the bottom of the 9th, down 5-4, but the runners pass each other and end up both out", that'd be particularly egregious. Which means I should go place that long-odds bet right now...

There was a case of a Mets player, I believe Robin Ventura, hitting a grand slam homerun to end an NLCS game in extra innings, but he never touched 2nd in the celebration so it technically ended up being counted as a 1-run RBI single.

posted by hincandenza at 03:50 PM on October 28

...would be Joycean in its idiocy.

Love it. Stealing it.

posted by tron7 at 03:54 PM on October 28

On the other hand, such a play couldn't ever be a loss, since the hitter would be at worst the winning run- if he missed home plate, then all preceding runs scored anyway (unless it was a solo shot), to either tie or go ahead before the hitter crossed the plate.

It could. If it was, say, 6-4 in the bottom of the 9th with 2 out and 1 on, the batter would be the game-tying run, and his out would end the game rather than tie it.

posted by bender at 04:00 PM on October 28

Homerun ball hits roof/speakers/catwalks in play, is caught to end game.

Only applicable in Phoenix, Miami, Milwaukee, Seattle, Toronto, and Tampa Bay.

posted by grum@work at 04:26 PM on October 28

There was a case of a Mets player, I believe Robin Ventura, hitting a grand slam homerun to end an NLCS game in extra innings, but he never touched 2nd in the celebration so it technically ended up being counted as a 1-run RBI single.

Yup.
The bases-load, fence-clearing, 1-run single.

You can see him briefly signal to his teammates not to come out to greet him..but it's too late. If I remember correctly, he was pretty pissed later on when he found out it only counted as a single.

posted by grum@work at 04:30 PM on October 28

We forgot one scenario: Game-ending out when a base runner is called out for interference with a fielder attempting to make a play. As a corollary, runner from first called out on the front end of a double play interferes with the relay throw to first by taking out the thrower when he (the runner) goes well out of the base path to take out the thrower. In that case the double play is granted.

Plays involving awarded bases, other than bases-on-balls, fan interference, or ground rule hits ( bounding ball over fence, balls striking catwalks, etc.) are rare enough during the regular season, but in this series have been game-winners twice. While pick-off plays are common, last night's play has to take on the aspects or real rarity. The ever-erudite and omniscient Mr. McCarver and his sock puppet Mr. Buck totally missed the ned for Napoli to hold Wong close to the base. Boston's speedsters, Ellsbury and Victorino, and to some extent Nava, will always attempt to go first to third on an outfield single, and on an extra-base hit will frequently attempt to score. I'm sure Napoli and Farrell were thinking along these lines. In a 2-run game, you don't want to allow it to become a one-run game with the tying run in scoring position. Keep the runners as far back as possible.

I am heartily in favor of changing the name "World Series" to "Weird Series". It would be appropriate. What are they going to do for an encore?

posted by Howard_T at 04:49 PM on October 28

If I remember correctly, he was pretty pissed later on when he found out it only counted as a single.

Not as pissed as some Vegas sports books that supposedly started to pay out the "over" bets (over/under for the game was 7.5 runs) only to find out that the game actually officially ended 4-3, and not 7-3.

posted by holden at 04:58 PM on October 28

bender: It could. If it was, say, 6-4 in the bottom of the 9th with 2 out and 1 on, the batter would be the game-tying run, and his out would end the game rather than tie it.
Ah, but the condition was specifically a "walk-off homer" negated by not touching the plate. If it was a walk-off, then by definition the batter was at least the go-ahead/winning run, which means any runs that scored ahead of him either tied it up or won it already without him; at worst, his missing the plate would leave the game tied, at best it'd by like Robin Ventura where he missed out on the HR and got only a triple, but the game was already won before he would have touched home anyway (i.e, 6-4 with the bases loaded).
Howard_T: The ever-erudite and omniscient Mr. McCarver and his sock puppet Mr. Buck totally missed the ne[e]d for Napoli to hold Wong close to the base.
Agreed. I didn't think holding him was egregious at all (Pedroia was deep enough to get the right-side single that Napoli would have theoretically been preventing if he was in position), but Buck/McCarver as well as the St. Louis radio team thought it was laughable... for about 20 seconds. While it's true the lead runner doesn't "matter", it's also true that a) Napoli shouild be on the line anyway in a no-doubles defense (game 2 turns out differently if Middlebrooks was following that advice over at 3rd, and thus taking away the Holliday 2-run double), and that b) as you point out, keeping the runner from getting that extra base or going for home on a clean single in the gap could prove huge in a 2-run game. Letting one run creep in, even with two outs, means a play at the plate and Beltran advancing to 2nd or further on the throw, and suddenly St. Louis is only one hit from a tie game- or more. Holding him means either a play at either 2nd or 1st, or at worst on a hit simply runners at 1st and 2nd.

posted by hincandenza at 05:03 PM on October 28

his sock puppet Mr. Buck

I've always felt that Joe Buck and Christopher Kimball could switch places and no one would notice.

What are they going to do for an encore?

Just so a guy doesn't parachute onto the field prior to Game Six.

(Well, a Fleggaard skydiver would be OK).

posted by beaverboard at 05:13 PM on October 28

Homerun ball hits roof/speakers/catwalks in play, is caught to end game.

Only applicable in Phoenix, Miami, Milwaukee, Seattle, Toronto, and Tampa Bay.

Looks like that scenario will never happen in a World Series.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 11:58 PM on October 28

Ooh, ooh. Just one more scenario, I think this one would be pretty amazing, honestly.

Game ends on hidden ball trick.

Like this. Oh and with Matt Carpenter of St. Louis as the victim, no less.

posted by jeremias at 07:31 AM on October 29

I think your best chance at ending on a Hidden Ball Trick, at least for a while, ended when Mike Lowell retired. Much like Koji Uehara, Lowell was one of those acquisitions you note, but don't think much of until you see him on the field. Lowell was a joy to watch play third and all the more so for the enjoyment he got out of his job. That was never more evident than the fact he tried the hidden ball trick pretty much every time he could. I was always waiting for some less-than-friendly opponent to lose his cool and scream.

posted by yerfatma at 08:59 AM on October 29

Chris Maloney the Cards first base coach needs some grandchildren to go along with all the stories he's gathering to tell them. Or not.

The pickoff blond must feel like she's been inserted into a parallel Zapruder reality by now. By the time she stops moving and begins to squint slightly in frame # 224, Wong is already out.

posted by beaverboard at 09:03 AM on October 29

He and Brian Butterfield can get together. Nothing quite says "Proud graduate of the Wendell Kim school of third base coaches" like sending a 40+ catcher on anything less than a ball that gets stuck in the padding in a gap at a larger stadium.

posted by yerfatma at 10:01 AM on October 29

What are they going to do for an encore?

How about a tidy 2:52, well-executed, well-pitched, nail-biting, ball game? Last night's Game 5 affair was baseball nearly at its best.

posted by Howard_T at 05:08 PM on October 29

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