January 09, 2012

Alain Vigneault is desperately concerned about the health of Brad Marchand: but the Bruins would prefer he quiet down. Vigneault was a regular winner of the Lady Byng Trophy during his playing days, who has a tremendous memory for dirty hits like low checks. Something like that could be used to try to injure Marchand in a game.

posted by yerfatma to hockey at 01:39 PM - 28 comments

(I used up all my unbiased editorial voice in the last post.)

posted by yerfatma at 01:40 PM on January 09

I'm a Canucks fan who is getting increasingly embarrassed at the myopic view and blatant bias shown by Vancouver fans and media. Saturday's Stanley Cup rematch was a fantastic hockey game, the kind that makes you lament that these teams won't play each other again this season.

Instead, the local focus is on how conspiracy theories abound because Marchand is unlikely to get a major suspension and Lucic's game misconduct for "leaving the bench" was rescinded. Has it really come to this, that we can't have intelligent, balanced discussions on notable and interesting points in a game, without digging in and taking sides?

Marchand is one of those guys you hate to play against and love to have on your team. He probably crosses the line too often and he would do well to lose the cheap stuff. The hit in question was bad but not criminal, and it was surely not 'self defense', as he claimed. If he gets any suspension at all, I think it will be for two games at most -- and Canuck fans will be up in arms. *sigh*

posted by geneparmesan at 02:36 PM on January 09

Thanks for that perspective. As a Bruins fan, I'm hard-pressed to tell if they're really a dirty team or what. Honestly, I think it's hard to determine what constitutes a "dirty" hockey team: if you stare hard enough at another team while they play a 7 game series against your team, I think you're going to come away with the impression the other team is "dirty". No doubt Marchand plays at the edge, but I don't think the team itself is any better or worse than average. They happen to be a team of large guys who hit. When you're middle of the standings, that's "scrappy" and "old-time hockey". When you are at the top of the table, it's being a bully, I guess.

posted by yerfatma at 02:44 PM on January 09

Hockey fan here, not a Canucks or Bruins fan ...

That Marchand hit was a successful intent to injure and more of the typical gutless crap that hockey fans have come to expect from Marchand. A suspension is in order, but the NHL treats profitable US based teams differently than the rest and I don't imagine that is going to change.

No fan of Lucic's hit and hide style either, but I think the referees got that call wrong. It was during a change and the Canucks had 3 men on 1 Bruin.

posted by cixelsyd at 03:44 PM on January 09

No fan of Lucic's hit and hide style either

I must have missed something.

posted by yerfatma at 04:16 PM on January 09

M. Vigneault might want to consider all of the evidence before making judgement. The videos in this link show there is another side to the story. It would be a good idea for Brendan Shanahan to place a call to Vancouver and tell Vigneault to knock it off before he feels lighter in the wallet. The news is that Salo will sit tonight, but I expect a miraculous recovery as soon as Marchand's fate is determined. Salo can't be all that badly off when he hurls his stick in anger and skates quickly off the ice showing no signs of dizziness. Embellishing an injury is something that has been done n the NHL since it was founded.

posted by Howard_T at 04:32 PM on January 09

Embellishing an injury

Bruins fan, correct? The opponent landed on his head and has concussion symptoms ... Would think after losing Savard you'd have a different opinion about sideshow clowns attacking the skilled players people pay money to see play.

Look, if anyone from the Canucks had weasled Seguin or one of the other stand up skilled Bruins I'd have the same opinion of that player. When guys like Cooke, Lucic, Carcillo or any of those other hit from behind cowards goon someone I also have the same opinion.

Your link is interesting ... footage showing Marchand punching Salo twice in the back of the head (never would he ever attempt anything face to face) before gooning him. Oh yeah, followed by hiding behind Chara as quickly as he could.

posted by cixelsyd at 06:05 PM on January 09

Sami Salo would injure himself attempting to embellish an injury

posted by geneparmesan at 06:14 PM on January 09

5 Games

posted by tommytrump at 06:30 PM on January 09

Clearly it's a low hit and the suspension isn't out of line given Marchand's history. The big question is will the NHL be consistent about this (as seen from the Globe link of 2 Vancouver players using the same low check against the Bruins last year). All for cracking down on injury-increasing hits - nobody wants to see a player land like Salo did - but consistency has always been the NHL's problem.

posted by kokaku at 08:07 PM on January 09

Marchand always has been a weasel and always will be. When I saw the Bruins play in Columbus this season Marchand took out Nikita Nikitin with a knee on knee hit. No call was made for a penalty, no suspension was given, no retaliation was had. One of these days Marchand is going to cross the line against the wrong team, and someone is going to get their revenge. It reminds me of the incident where Ulf Samuelsson (the dirtiest player of his era by far) was tied up with Tie Domi and Domi sucker punched him and knocked him out cold. The same thing is going to happen to Marchand eventually.

In any case, his suspension was well deserved.

posted by insomnyuk at 08:38 PM on January 09

Why is there so much problem with the definition of clipping? Marchand's hit on Salo was classic clipping, drops his righ shoulder into Salo's knees and he was punished for this by Shanahan as illustrated in his explanation video.

Both Hamhuis and Raymond in the videos in the Boston.com link hit above the knees and so were not assessed clipping penallties. If you want a Canucks example look at Ballard, who I believe was called for clipping on a hip check in the San Jose series last year. His penalty, unlike Marchand, was only a 2 min minor - any clipping penalty that results in an injury is an automatic 5 min major and is subject to post-game review.

I'm not sure if I agree with the policy (too much of the punishment is decided by how badly the victim got hurt - punish the action, not the outcome) but everything here is exactly in line with the NHL rulebook and Shanahan's attitude to repeat offenders.

(personal bias: Marchand's head-fake towards the puck before diving into Salo absolutely makes my blood boil. Faking a player into a position where they can't defend themselves from a marginal-at-best hit is the sort of crap that needs to be stamped out of the game yesterday. Marchand is down in the gutter with Matt Cooke and Ulf Samuelsson for me now)

posted by deflated at 08:38 PM on January 09

Oh yeah, and Boston fans are totally gutless, classless assholes. They cheered when Salo got hurt, they cheered when Mason Raymond's vertebrae was fractured by Johnny Boychuk. They are scum.

posted by insomnyuk at 08:40 PM on January 09

Sure thing. Because they knew Salo was hurt. And that's what they were cheering. Any time someone gets upended in a hockey game, the crowd rises to their feet. Look at the last two links in the post where Vancouver fans jump up after the same kind of hit. By your logic, they are also gutless, classless assholes. Is every fan Dr. Gregory House and they can diagnose an injury in mid-flight?

Based on your recent comments, maybe it's time to step back from sports for a while. Take a breath.

posted by yerfatma at 08:44 PM on January 09

Dude, the fans could see Mason Raymond lying on the ice, not moving. They cheered anyway. You can defend the Bruins all you want but that doesn't make it right.

posted by insomnyuk at 08:51 PM on January 09

I'm not trying to "make it right"; I just don't get the broad-brush thing for Northeastern fan bases due to the reaction of crowds at a game.

posted by yerfatma at 09:12 PM on January 09

This is the most bullshit front page post I've ever seen on SportsFilter. Get your own blog, for chrissakes.

posted by rumple at 09:36 PM on January 09

fatty, have a look at your headline and posts here, then review the video of the incident. Nobody's brushing anything except that it was a garbage hit with garbage response from the offender and some associated with the Bruins.

You cheer when an opponent gets injured by a cheap shot artist? That's sad.

posted by cixelsyd at 09:49 PM on January 09

This is the most bullshit front page post I've ever seen on SportsFilter.

I strongly disagree. I've written way more hommerific posts than this.

posted by yerfatma at 10:43 AM on January 10

Salo can't be all that badly off when he hurls his stick in anger and skates quickly off the ice showing no signs of dizziness.

Quickly? He slowly skated off the ice while hunched over.

posted by grum@work at 10:58 AM on January 10

You cheer when an opponent gets injured by a cheap shot artist? That's sad.

Can someone point to where I said I do that? Again, you're suggesting an amazing bit of medical insight on the behalf of Boston hockey fans.

posted by yerfatma at 11:14 AM on January 10

NHL's hit of the night highlight from 12/31/11.

posted by yerfatma at 06:56 PM on January 10

I finally watched the clip of what Marchand did. Back in my playing days, that was called "submarining" someone, and it was typically done by chickenshits who were afraid to take a hit. Rather than play the puck, because he saw movement out of the corner of his eye, Marchand gives up on the play and takes Salo out at the knees. It didn't even look like Salo was lining him up for a big hit; just gliding in to make a play. I'll reserve any judgement on Bruins fans, because it's difficult to tell sometimes what really happened in the context of a hit. Marchand though-chickenshit. Nice job on the suspension, Shanny (a man who never shied away from a hit).

posted by tahoemoj at 07:28 PM on January 10

And the NHL hit of the night from new years eve? That was a clean hip check on a puck carrier. You don't honestly believe that the two hits were the same, do you?

posted by tahoemoj at 07:29 PM on January 10

I can't tell, honestly. I can't skate to save my life, so I never played hockey. If you mean the difference between on a puck carrier v. not a puck carrier, sure.

posted by yerfatma at 09:11 PM on January 10

In my opinion, and I think most players would agree with me, the two were pretty different. When you're carrying the puck, you expect to get hit. In the former situation, the player with the puck tried to get around the defenseman, who stuck his hip out (low) and connected with the puck carrier's leg, sending him sprawling.

In Marchand's case, he was the player chasing, if not playing, the puck. Instead of continuing to play it, he quickly ducked took out the pursuing defenseman at the knees. Salo had his weight forward anticipating contact, which is why it sent him sprawling, hitting his head.

Again, I think Shanahan, as a former (stand-up type) player, made the right decision, and hopefully Salo recovers quickly.

posted by tahoemoj at 09:24 PM on January 10

I think Shanahan, as a former (stand-up type) player

Just for the record, Shanahan was suspended a few times himself as a player.

posted by grum@work at 11:10 PM on January 10

Shanahan was suspended a few times himself

He was suspended, he was a tough sob and sometimes tougher than rules allowed.

He was definitely a stand-up player, unlike Marchand whose entire game revolves around punching guys in the back of the head and hitting them low and from behind ... and only when he has a planned escape route or can hide behind Chara.

posted by cixelsyd at 11:19 PM on January 10

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