FanDuel - WFBC

December 09, 2011

SportsFilter: The Friday Huddle:

A place to discuss the sports stories that aren't making news, share links that aren't quite front-page material, and diagram plays on your hand. Remember to count to five Mississippi before commenting in anger.

posted by huddle to general at 06:00 AM - 37 comments

From the involuntary double take department:

Kansas has hired Charlie Weis.

That's what one headline simply said last night. So my first thought was: "Gee, as a coordinator, maybe he should stay put in one place for a while".

Then I found out that he had been hired as the HEAD COACH. Oh.

No lack of quizzical worldwide reaction on this one.

Weis is sure he's a college guy, not an NFL guy?

He hated being in Kansas City but is sure he'll like being in Kansas?

KU likes the idea of possibly going from one disaster to another?

KU feels better having a big man run the show?

KU felt outclassed and left behind when New Mexico hired Bob Davie and is scrambling to play catch up in the Hire a Lackluster Former Notre Dame Coach Sweepstakes?

Does this mean that Fresno State is going to try to lure Willingham out of retirement?

Akron has some thinking to do. Gerry Faust still lives in the area.

posted by beaverboard at 07:46 AM on December 09

LSU cheerleader wears helmet cam so you can see things from her perspective.

I feel pretty.

posted by rcade at 08:30 AM on December 09

The future of football. (press CC to turn on the subtitles if, for some bizarre reason, you don't speak Viking.)

This idea is also roughly the only thing that would get me to watch basketball. Or golf.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:58 AM on December 09

GODDAMMIT, Kansas. I went to USC and Michigan, and you have to hire Weis into the Big 12 so I can't see either of my teams tune up on him every year?

posted by Etrigan at 11:23 AM on December 09

Another brutal cheap shot from James Harrison last night.

posted by rcade at 12:07 PM on December 09

LSU cheerleader wears helmet

Just to be clear, we're not allowed to refer to the fleeting leg views as cam shots, is that correct?

posted by beaverboard at 12:43 PM on December 09

The Carolina Hurricanes somehow dump Tomas Kaberle onto the Canadiens for that Spacek dude that's been kicking around since the '90s.

posted by NoMich at 01:04 PM on December 09

Leafs and Raptors sold to Rogers and BCE. Does Rogers own everything sports-related in Canada?

It was the Teachers' Pension Fund that sold the teams. Does that mean the Leafs players no longer have to wear dunce caps while in the penalty box?

posted by Howard_T at 02:09 PM on December 09

...for that Spacek dude that's been kicking around since the '90s.

That's nothing.

I was stunned to find out that this guy and this guy were still playing in the NHL. I thought the announcers were confusing a similar sounding name (called the "Bob Cole syndrome").

posted by grum@work at 02:52 PM on December 09

Does Rogers own everything sports-related in Canada?

In the Toronto area? All that's left are the Toronto Argonauts (CFL) and the Toronto Rock (NLL), and it's only a matter of time that MLSE purchases the Rock (they use the same arena as the Raptors and Leafs).

The Argos will probably be picked up by BCE (since the CFL is a big TSN staple, and TSN is (80%) owned by BCE).

posted by grum@work at 02:59 PM on December 09

BCE also has an interest (twitter consensus seems to be about 18%) in the Montreal Canadiens.
The Montreal arena is Centre Bell, the Vancouver Canucks play in Rogers Arena.

posted by tommytrump at 03:08 PM on December 09

An open lettter from new Dallas Stars owner Tom Gaglardi to fans

posted by tommytrump at 03:12 PM on December 09

Another brutal cheap shot from James Harrison last night.

When I saw the play live (before the replays), I didn't see the helmet to helmet contact - and I got up to do something and missed the replays - so I didn't understand what the personal foul call was all about. Watching it again in slow motion now - holy cats - that was a cheap shot. Fine? Suspension?

posted by Joey Michaels at 03:27 PM on December 09

holy cats - that was a cheap shot. Fine? Suspension?

You must be one of those anti-Steeler biased referees. You're always picking on poor, poor James.

posted by tahoemoj at 03:40 PM on December 09

Time for Harrison to get a 3 or 4 game suspension and a fine. When he returns if he still refuses to cut the cheap crap give him a longer suspension.

That hit was a deliberate attempt to injure, nothing less. If they let him carry on he'll eventually end someone's career or worse.

posted by cixelsyd at 04:31 PM on December 09

Can someone explain to me how that was a cheap shot? I thought a qb out of the pocket was considered a running back (especially that particular play as i still believe he was across the LOS when he threw it). So if he WAS a runner at that point, there is no helmet to helmet penalty against a runner(as the announcer pointed out in an earlier helmet to helmet hit against mendenhall), and it certainly wasn't late.

And if that is the case, how was his hit any more an "deliberate attempt to injure" then the hit mendenhall got at the goalline?

posted by bdaddy at 05:24 PM on December 09

Can someone explain to me how that was a cheap shot?

Is that a serious question?

Have a look at the video. The ball is gone, Harrison has his head up and sees that the ball is gone, and he deliberately targets the QB's head with his helmet.

posted by cixelsyd at 06:26 PM on December 09

Yes it was a serious question...read my post. He's a RUNNER in that situation. And your perception about seeing the ball gone and targeting the head on a bang-bang play seems misguided. Football happens much faster than that. Not to mention your taught from age 5 to lower your head and it's all rather instinctive. My 7 year old lowers his head to hit.

But back to my question, if him leading with the crown of his helmet on a RUNNER is a penalty, where's all the uproar on the mendenhall hit where he got lit up by a LB with an identical head first launch. Was the browns LB deliberately trying to hurt Mendenhall?

posted by bdaddy at 10:06 PM on December 09

Not to mention your taught from age 5 to lower your head and it's all rather instinctive. My 7 year old lowers his head to hit.

If your child lowers his head to hit people, unless he's playing with much smaller kids, he shouldn't hit them in the head when they are standing up.

posted by grum@work at 10:18 PM on December 09

Watch the video. Harrison knew McCoy had thrown the ball before he readied himself to lower the boom.

Even if McCoy was considered a runner, that doesn't make it a clean shot for Harrison to target his head with his helmet. Harrison does that crap far too often for anyone to legitimately claim it's accidental. It's not an attempt to tackle. It's an attempt to injure, and if the league doesn't suspend him it's not taking the concussion/CTE problem seriously enough.

My 7 year old lowers his head to hit.

He needs to be taught the proper safe technique. "It is imperative that you teach your children to tackle with their heads elevated to prevent potentially serious injuries from occurring."

posted by rcade at 10:21 PM on December 09

I watched it live and watched it dozens of times since...he hits him just after he lets go of the ball. There was nothing LATE about it and if he hadn't have hit him H2H then there wouldn't have been a flag. And I can't imagine he "target his helmet"..at least not consciously. It amazes me that people think that these guys have time to process all that stuff in fractions of seconds. So in that time frame you think his mind reasons "oh, he got rid of the ball..but who cares I'm hitting him anyways..and let me aim for his head to really lay into him". Did you guys play the game? That's not how I remember it working...for me it was "ball, load, hit"...all instinctive. I've delivered my share of de-cleating hits in my time and I never, ever remember consciously thinking about aiming for a helmet or thinking about how I'm going to deliberately hurt this guy, etc..there is just no time for any of that. It's "ball, load,hit". The fact that his "load,hit" ends up on the guys helmet is from years of instinctive playing..not from "yea, let me hurt this guy". I can't imagine if someone even had that mentality (to intentionally injure) how in the game they would have time to process those thoughts on plays like that.

Even if McCoy was considered a runner, that doesn't make it a clean shot for Harrison to target his head with his helmet.

Then you still haven't really answered my question. Why is it a clean shot for the H2H de-cleater of Mendenhall at the goal line? Gocong LAUNCHED himself, leading with his helmet, directly at Mendenhall's helmet. Nobody's saying that was a "premeditated, deliberate attempt to injure". If Colt truly was a "runner", how is Harrison's tackle any different than Gocongs?

posted by bdaddy at 11:46 PM on December 09

If your child lowers his head to hit people, unless he's playing with much smaller kids, he shouldn't hit them in the head when they are standing up.

Well we have different impressions of what "lower your head" means. I'm not talking about looking face down at the ground or bending over at the waist. If I'm standing straight up and duck my head like I'm about to hit somebody (what I call duck my head anyways) it only shrinks my height about 4-5 inches. My eyes stay up, my waist barely bends..only thing that happens is my shoulders haunch and my head lowers. Basically EXACTLY what Harrison did there.

Heck, look at that picture rcade posted about "safe technique"..that form right there would catch most running backs right in the chinstrap (and helmet to helmet if they happened to duck, which is what they instinctively do too)

posted by bdaddy at 11:51 PM on December 09

funny I was trying to find that Gocal hit to link to and found this article which says "Linebacker Chris Gocong set the tone with a wicked helmet-to-helmet hit on running back Rashard Mendenhall, a maneuver that's legal when applied to ball carriers. "

posted by bdaddy at 11:59 PM on December 09

He's a RUNNER in that situation.

He'd released the ball downfield; how is he a RUNNER?

posted by tahoemoj at 12:38 AM on December 10

I watched it live and watched it dozens of times since...he hits him just after he lets go of the ball. There was nothing LATE about it

Take off your Steelers Zubaz and have another look ignoring the uniforms and the names on them. It couldn't be any more clear cut, it's late and a deliberate intent to injure.

A successful deliberate attempt to injure, McCoy has been diagnosed with a concussion.

posted by cixelsyd at 12:57 AM on December 10

I'd feel the same if it was a Raven or Cowboy.

If you watch it in slowmotion, he's released the ball. Watch it in realtime. In fact, pause it while the ball is still in colt's hand and you see harrison already in his launch stance. It wasn't late..the penalty wasn't a "late hit". It was unnecessary roughness for the H2H (which I'm arguing would be legal since he's a runner in that instance, as he's in the process of the hit when he gets rid of the ball.).

He doesn't take 2 steps after the ball's out of his hand (the old measure for late hit in the pocket). He takes 1. He's in the process of the hit when the runner (already past the line of scrimmage, by the way)' flings the ball out.

posted by bdaddy at 10:54 AM on December 10

Did you guys play the game? That's not how I remember it working...for me it was "ball, load, hit"...all instinctive. I've delivered my share of de-cleating hits in my time and I never, ever remember consciously thinking about aiming for a helmet or thinking about how I'm going to deliberately hurt this guy, etc..there is just no time for any of that.

I presume you are not in the one-in-a-quarter-million or so of Americans who is good enough to play in the NFL. Do you think it's possible that Harrison and the very few people good enough to play at that level are sufficiently better than you that they are good enough to process that quickly? If not, then why does the NFL -- made up of a lot of people as good as Harrison historically -- believe that it is possible?

posted by Etrigan at 11:00 AM on December 10

It also seems that almost every other player in the league has learned to control this primal instinct to spear the opposition. In essence, your defense of Harrison is that he is not as physically capable as the rest of the defensive players in the NFL of controlling his body. This isn't the first incident on Harrison's record. In fact, I think the proper word for him is "recidivist". If this happened once, or even twice, it may be written off to mistake. At this point, I think you need to recognize that the player you support on the team you love, while a talented player, is a dirty player. He tries to hurt people. In this case, he was successful.

posted by tahoemoj at 11:25 AM on December 10

(especially that particular play as i still believe he was across the LOS when he threw it)

(already past the line of scrimmage, by the way)

I have to wonder if you've watched the play as many times as you claim. McCoy was two full yards from being considered past the line of scrimmage when he released the ball. LOS is the 39, he releases the ball at the 40 with his left arm at about the 41. His entire body would have to be past the 39 for them to call that, when in fact no part of his body is within a yard of it.

posted by cl at 12:47 PM on December 10

I watched it live and watched it dozens of times since...

There's no way you've watched the play dozens of times. The line of scrimmage is marked by a blue line and McCoy is more than a yard away from it when he throws the ball.

posted by rcade at 02:54 PM on December 10

I don't at all have a dog in this fight, but it certainly looks to me like the QB has tucked the ball under his arm and then at the very last minute he pulls it back and tosses the pass. I've seen a lot of quarterbacks scramble and I don't recall them tucking the ball until it is clear they are going to run.

My question is, does that make any difference - tuck or no tuck? I get the ball wasn't in his hand at the time he was hit, so late, but then when Harrison is lining him up the ball is in the tuck and not in a throwing position. His decision to suddenly untuck and throw is not that common from the football I have seen and maybe it somehow fooled Harrison too.

Anyway, the overall concern is the massive helmet to helmet hit which should never be tolerated under any circumstances and warrants a suspension, late or not.

posted by rumple at 03:17 PM on December 10

If Harrison thought McCoy was a runner, why was he trying to knock his head off instead of tackling him? Nobody tackles a runner that way. His arms don't even try to wrap him up. Harrison's move is how a defensive player looks when he's trying to remove a passing quarterback's head from his shoulders.

posted by rcade at 03:59 PM on December 10

That's a good question, but it's one that could be asked on 10 plays a game when the first tackler on the ball carrier (especially WR, or punt returns) comes in with no use of arms and just tries to lay his shoulder in hard. It's almost a cliche of old fart commentary that tacklers these days aren't using their arms, wrapping up the ball carrier, "football fundamentals", etc.

If Harrison hits McCoy in the chest, not wrapping him up at all, but knocking him on his ass nonetheless, then it is not some kind of remarkable, unusual "not using his arms" tackle - it's something you see multiple times every game.

posted by rumple at 04:24 PM on December 10

already past the line of scrimmage, by the way

posted by Mr Bismarck at 07:46 PM on December 10

Why is it a clean shot for the H2H de-cleater of Mendenhall at the goal line? Gocong LAUNCHED himself, leading with his helmet, directly at Mendenhall's helmet. Nobody's saying that was a "premeditated, deliberate attempt to injure". If Colt truly was a "runner", how is Harrison's tackle any different than Gocongs?

Haven't seen it but you are talking about a a situation where everyone is diving in and a running back who has the ball. Colt was not truly a runner and this was in the open field. It was a cheap shot plain and simple.

Not to mention your taught from age 5 to lower your head and it's all rather instinctive. My 7 year old lowers his head to hit.

You're nuts.

Well we have different impressions of what "lower your head" means. I'm not talking about looking face down at the ground or bending over at the waist. If I'm standing straight up and duck my head like I'm about to hit somebody (what I call duck my head anyways) it only shrinks my height about 4-5 inches. My eyes stay up, my waist barely bends..only thing that happens is my shoulders haunch and my head lowers. Basically EXACTLY what Harrison did there


You better be clear on how you define lowering your head to him (your 7 year old), because I don't know what the heck you are talking about. We'd run steps if we lowered are head and this was still back in the day when we weren't allowed to drink water for more than three seconds during two a days. Nobody is taught to lower their frickin' head when making a tackle.

posted by tselson at 10:15 PM on December 10

Nice capture, MrB - has to be at least 3 yards seperation between the players and Harrison has his head up and is clearly able to see the pass being thrown.

Guilty as charged, sentencing (hopefully) to follow.

posted by cixelsyd at 01:27 AM on December 11

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