FanDuel - WFBC

November 29, 2011

Warner to Tebow: A Little Less Jesus, Please: The last NFL quarterback famous for his professions of Christian faith, former Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner, would like to see Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow cut down the number of references to Jesus Christ. "I'd tell him, 'Put down the boldness in regards to the words, and keep living the way you're living,'" Warner said. "The greatest impact you can have on people is never what you say, but how you live. When you speak and represent the person of Jesus Christ in all actions of your life, people are drawn to that. You set the standard with your actions. The words can come after."

posted by rcade to football at 09:59 AM - 62 comments

Amen Brother!!

Ok seriously though, he is right. The way Tebow has to work the words "My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into at least every other sentence akes his "devotion" seem either phony or cult-like or both. The last time I heard him answer how he felt about winning the game he came across as a caracature. And when Kurt Warner is telling you to tone down the religion - thats something.

posted by G_Web at 11:42 AM on November 29

And Tim, if you're still saving yourself for marriage, make sure to get you a Brenda. It'll be worth the wait.

posted by beaverboard at 11:57 AM on November 29

If SpoFi keeps up this level of Tebow coverage, the Goldman family is gonna go after his momma's piano.

posted by beaverboard at 11:59 AM on November 29

Dear John Elway,
Go Fuck yourself.
Sincerely Tim

posted by Debo270 at 12:51 PM on November 29

Tebow isn't the only one to voice his love for Jesus, but he is definitely the loudest. Aside from Warner, Deion Sanders had a pretty obnoxious phase with it too; but like Warner, he did learn to tone it down.

As for Tebow comparing his love for Jesus to that of a man loving his wife; here's the key difference: Tell your wife you love her, not a national TV audience.

posted by Tinman at 12:53 PM on November 29

While it is rare to see anyone these days that has the guts to share religious views with anyone, especially athletes, and I appreciate his fresh outlook, I have to agree Tim is a little much. It is almost to the point that he is putting on his own show. Like he is thinking"a camera may be on me, I should look like I am deep in meditation," The truth is he should be looking at pictures of coverage with his Offensive Coordinator. That being said, him at 5-1 is a miracle, maybe it is working, or he is just praying to not be benched.

posted by Debo270 at 12:53 PM on November 29

And when Kurt Warner is telling you to tone down the religion - thats something.

Amen. I didn't know until this story that Warner had any misgivings about how often and loudly he proclaimed his religious faith during his career.

It will be interesting to see if Tebow changes his approach. I'm betting he continues to press it.

posted by rcade at 12:59 PM on November 29

I don't see TimmyT giving a shit what others think of his comments. In my experience ppl with that level of devotion to their god don't even realize others my be offended. Even when told they are being offensive.

posted by Folkways at 01:53 PM on November 29

Enough of the Tebow threads already.

Sad there isn't anything else noteworthy in sports to discuss. What will it take - somebody starting rumours of Brett Farve signing with the Bears or ESPN planning to air "The Decision: A Year Later" ?

On a side note .. John Elway is a freakishly scary looking ?man (? intended). Has he become a client of Michael Jackson / Jerry Jones plastic surgeon ?

posted by cixelsyd at 02:16 PM on November 29

...somebody starting rumours of Brett Farve signing with the Bears

Wait! I thought the Texans were interested in Favre's service.

posted by BornIcon at 02:25 PM on November 29

...somebody starting rumours of Brett Farve signing with the Bears

I heard he was trying to be the HC of the Jaguars...

(we should create a SpoFi theme of trying to pin rumors of Brett Favre in every possible job opening.

posted by Bonkers at 03:09 PM on November 29

I wish people would stop telling Tebow how to express his religious views.

Favre was in the running for the Caps job.

posted by bperk at 03:43 PM on November 29

I'm not sure I'd call Tebow's ostentatious shows of faith offensive, but (and I've mentioned this before) I think he inadvertently ends up ascribing God with petty motives. To whit, unless my understanding of Christianity is completely wrong, God doesn't step in and intervene in sporting events. He gives you the basic skills you need to be a decent athlete, but you're never going to be an exceptional one if you don't exercise your (God given) free will and work your ass off.

To whit, Tebow doesn't win games because of divine inspiration or because God is more on his side than anybody else's. What is troublesome about his constant statements of devotion (which are not atypical for his particular sect of James Dobson driven Christianity) is that he leaves one with the impression that he believes God chose him for this special mission of (spreading Jesus' message through) winning football games. I don't know that Tebow believes that, but there's a reason Mathew 6:6 was placed in the Bible.

tl;dr - His sort of display comes across as "I am more Christian than you." Maybe not deliberate, but annoying and laced with a little hubris.

posted by Joey Michaels at 03:50 PM on November 29

Tune in next week for: Starr to Tebow: A Little Less Jesus Please. The week after that: Moon to Tebow: A Little Less Jesus Please. The week after that: Losman to Tebow: A Little Less Jesus Please. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Enough. The guy is quarterback of a team that is winning games, while bigger names like Philip Rivers lead their team to losses and a coaching change (seriously, WHY is Norv Turner still a NFL coach?)

posted by dyams at 04:30 PM on November 29

I don't know that Tebow believes that, but there's a reason Mathew 6:6 was placed in the Bible.

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

To whit, unless my understanding of Christianity is completely wrong, God doesn't step in and intervene in sporting events.

God certainly can though, and God does create circumstances to test us, according to Christianity.

posted by bperk at 04:51 PM on November 29

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

oh man... now we're quoting scripture to make a point in the sporting world?

posted by myshtigo at 05:00 PM on November 29

oh man... now we're quoting scripture to make a point in the sporting world?

For what it's worth, I quit doing that the same time I retired my rainbow afro wig. I do miss those great seats, though.

posted by tahoemoj at 05:04 PM on November 29

Rollen Stewart, is that you? Great documentary, by the way.

posted by NoMich at 05:23 PM on November 29

To whit, unless my understanding of Christianity is completely wrong, God doesn't step in and intervene in sporting events.

Unless you're into predestination. Some forms of which would say that everything happens through God's will, football games included.

Tune in next week for: Starr to Tebow: A Little Less Jesus Please. The week after that: Moon to Tebow: A Little Less Jesus Please

I know he's not a quarterback but I feel like the ghost of Reggie White should be the next to tell Tebow to tone it down.

posted by tron7 at 05:52 PM on November 29

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Yeah, but what he's doing doesn't really qualify as preaching, does it? He's name dropping - or advertising, maybe.

In a way, it would be like if he made a point of mentioning Nike in every interview. He wouldn't necessarily be saying anything to persuade anyone to buy Nike beyond saying the company name.

Its a kind of religious product placement and its not effective preaching. Far from making converts, as this and a million other discussions illustrate, it is actively turning people off.

Unless you're into predestination. Some forms of which would say that everything happens through God's will, football games included.

..and...

God certainly can though, and God does create circumstances to test us, according to Christianity.

Two thoughts from two different people that obviously conflict with each other.

My thought about predestination vis a vis anything we do in life is that it suggests we don't actually have to do anything. We'll succeed or fail regardless of whether we put out any effort. Say what you like about Tebow's ability, but he's a better QB than almost everyone in the world. If he didn't work his ass off to get there, he wouldn't be able to do his part in God's plan. Maybe it was his destiny to both be given the natural gifts necessary to be a good QB and the drive to work for it, but if he just stopped working at it tomorrow and said "its my destiny," he'd be out of the league pretty quickly.

To whit, you can't just expect The Plan to take care of you. You have to make some effort or its not going to happen. Predestination absolves you of any personal responsibility - "Well, the Eagles lost again, but let's not blame Andy Reid - that loss is what God wanted."

As for the "test" business, that concept has always irked me vis a vis sports because of the stereotype that players immediately thank God when they win, but don't acknowledge him when they lose. In my opinion, what you should be thanking God for is the test itself, not the outcome. The reward, to whit, is not what happens on Earth. You can win a game and, through your reaction to that victory, lose favor in the eyes of the Lord, you know?

Anyhow, it is pointless for me (or, really, anyone) to try and dictate how Tebow chooses to express his devotion to Jesus. Every sect of Christianity has its own views on what is and is not appropriate - indeed, I've heard pastors of the same sect argue about what is appropriate, all arguing with evangelical certainty that they're right and their colleague is wrong.

Indeed, it was wrong of me to even ascribe a definition of what makes a good Christian in my previous post - there's so many different flavors of Christianity that my saying "Christians should be like this" is absurd.

My tl;dr here is "Tebow should be the best person he can be based on however he defines 'best person.'"

I guess at least he's trying to be a good person, even if I (and Kurt Warner) disagree with him a bit about the whats and wherefores. I don't even have a completely solid idea of what make a good person - its all contextual to me.

I'm looking forward to Denver playing New England, by the way. If Denver wins, that will be proof to me that there is no God.

posted by Joey Michaels at 06:36 PM on November 29

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matthew 19:21 - Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

posted by Adept at 06:50 PM on November 29

Matthew 6:5-6 - And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret....

Sorry, Matthew is one of my favorites. Maybe because it's my name, or maybe its because it's the one most often ignored by proponents of Prosperity Theology bullshit.

posted by Adept at 06:52 PM on November 29

Well played, Adept.

posted by Joey Michaels at 07:01 PM on November 29

While it is rare to see anyone these days that has the guts to share religious views with anyone...

Apparently, you don't have a Facebook account...

posted by MeatSaber at 07:02 PM on November 29

I think it's funny how this fluff piece is posted to SpoFi as if it were news, on top of the Jake Plummer story from last week.

As long as "suck my dick" is an acceptable reply to Tebow's critics, which to me so far seems to be the case, I don't think I need to be updated every time an ex-quarterback rises to the occasion of having an opinion about something that is none of their business.

Unless of course, you have an agenda which includes sympathizing with anyone who criticizes Christians for expressing their personal religious beliefs in a way that you find sophomoric.

But thanks for the update.

posted by phaedon at 07:49 PM on November 29

And one more thing - if you're going to quote well-put scripture to discredit Tebow for praying in public, I'm all for building a knee-cushion-fitted outhouse on the sidelines to let him do his thing.

Also, are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

posted by phaedon at 08:02 PM on November 29

Actually, based on last week's Broncos/Chargers game, a little outhouse on the sidelines might not be a bad idea.

posted by Joey Michaels at 08:12 PM on November 29

There's no arguing that Tebow's non ending references to Jesus Christ comes across as annoying at the very least - especially to those who love the game but don't share his faith. However, some variety of football god seems to be helping out since his known abilities come no where near the results. It remains to be seen how the Broncos fare against the Saints, Steelers, Patriots and Co. Should they prevail, it will be time to sit up and take serious notice.

posted by EEEEE at 08:23 PM on November 29

There's no arguing that Tebow's non ending references to Jesus Christ comes across as annoying at the very least - especially to those who love the game but don't share his faith. However, some variety of football god seems to be helping out since his known abilities come no where near the results. It remains to be seen how the Broncos fare against the Saints, Steelers, Patriots and Co. Should they prevail, it will be time to sit up and take serious notice.

posted by EEEEE at 08:23 PM on November 29

And one more thing - if you're going to quote well-put scripture to discredit Tebow for praying in public, I'm all for building a knee-cushion-fitted outhouse on the sidelines to let him do his thing.

What's so harsh about requiring him to do his praying on his own time?

If I were the owner of a sports franchise, I would not tolerate preaching, praying, testifying or talking in tongues on the premises. That view will no doubt seem outrageous to the evangelical Christians out there, which ought to tell you something about just how much of a pass evangelical Christians are granted, all the while regarding themselves as exceptionally persecuted and put-upon.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:26 PM on November 29

And one more thing - if you're going to quote well-put scripture to discredit Tebow for praying in public, I'm all for building a knee-cushion-fitted outhouse on the sidelines to let him do his thing.

Also, are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

Of course not. Everyone knows Jesus Christ can't hit a 1 iron.

posted by jm_mosier at 08:36 PM on November 29

If I were the owner of a sports franchise, I would not tolerate preaching, praying, testifying or talking in tongues on the premises.

Let me give you an interesting anecdote. When I was in college, the school I attended had to deal with an interesting new problem: a growing minority of observant Muslim women who wanted to exercise in the school's co-ed facilities, but did not want to be seen wearing revealing attire in the presence of men.

So, said school decided to block out "women only" hours at the gym on a handful of mornings and afternoons. To some this policy appeared to institutionalize misguided, albeit well-intentioned, sexism. You can imagine the small uproar this caused on campus. At the end of the day, not that many hours nor that many facilities were set aside for this purpose.

But for what its worth, without taking sides, I find it's very hard to know when to say how much religious observance is too much. Are Tebow's expressions of faith really too much? Is women-only exercising too much?

People are trying to sneak in this "please keep your views in your bedroom" idea specifically when it comes to Tebow and it's kind of weird. I hope the criticism he's getting from other players is because he kind of sounds like a tool and not much else. Otherwise, how do you justify asking Tebow to tone it down but concurrently develop new systems of rules at public institutions that essentially condone faith-based discrimination?

If you were the president of the university, I'd be surprised in today's political climate to find you not bending over backwards to tolerate freedom of religious expression in its many forms, as opposed to a complete ban on religious dialogue and/or action as you suggested.

Except for some reason, when it comes to evangelical Christianity. It's pretty trendy to dump on the them. I'm not trying to buy into the persecution complex per se, but I would like to see some kind of standard of what is socially acceptable when it comes to religious practice clearly expressed and evenly applied.

posted by phaedon at 09:19 PM on November 29

I actually *don't* care. I think it's tacky, but I don't necessarily think insincere. I do think if someone is going to pull out gospel to act like that sort of ostentatious preening is somehow the mission statement of Christianity, or anything like preaching the gospel, that person needs to be set straight.

posted by Adept at 09:27 PM on November 29

I think it's funny how this fluff piece is posted to SpoFi as if it were news, on top of the Jake Plummer story from last week.

I would've left the subject alone after Plummer, but when Warner weighed in I thought it was surprising. When he was a big-time QB, his religiosity hit the same nerve that Tebow's playing like a banjo today.

As I've said, I like the guy. He's a local hero. But he's actively trying to convert people, which would naturally piss off people of other faiths and people of no faith at all.

"If you have Jesus Christ in your heart, you are going to spend eternity in Heaven. If you don't, you're going to spend eternity in Hell." -- actual Tebow quote

posted by rcade at 10:26 PM on November 29

"If you have Jesus Christ in your heart, you are going to spend eternity in Heaven. If you don't, you're going to spend eternity in Hell." -- actual Tebow quote

That's a fundamental tenet of Christianity. The only way to God is through Jesus. I guess people don't usually state it so baldly, but it is what it is.

posted by bperk at 11:14 PM on November 29

Of course, "our religion is the only way to heaven/paradise/Valhalla/etc" is a fundamental tenet of nearly every religion. There's about 20 major religions, so discounting the smaller religions and various subgroups of religions, you got to figure there's only a 5% chance that any given "only way to heaven" is the correct way.

posted by Joey Michaels at 11:40 PM on November 29

ESPN:

On the night before he delivered the Denver Broncos to their fourth straight win, Tim Tebow was asked by coach John Fox to address his teammates. According to the Denver Post, Tebow turned to the Bible, quoting Proverbs 27:17: "Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

Tebow's motivational message worked. The Broncos put together their third fourth-quarter comeback since Tebow took over for starter Kyle Orton, rallying past rival San Diego for a 16-13 overtime win.

"He said iron sharpens iron and men sharpen other men. And I think that's totally true," rookie linebacker Von Miller told The Post. "He gave us a great speech. We came out (for the game) fired up. And that was a wrap."

posted by phaedon at 01:07 AM on November 30

There's about 20 major religions

Let's promote another four to "major" status and have a tournament. You could seed Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism to try and set up some interesting semi-finals. A few weeks after the final, you could have an All Star game where there best performing priests, imams, rabbis and so on could go head-to-head with Christopher Hitchens.

You could have it every four years to coincide with the US elections and the Olympics, with the world shifting to the same hymn sheet at the end of the process. Imagine where we could go if we all pulled in the same direction (even if it was the wrong one)!

posted by JJ at 05:02 AM on November 30

That, JJ, is something I can get behind 105%.

posted by Joey Michaels at 05:10 AM on November 30

(And it's God who can't hit a 1-iron. Jesus can't hit a 7-iron.)

posted by JJ at 05:17 AM on November 30

Except for some reason, when it comes to evangelical Christianity. It's pretty trendy to dump on the them.

I could not possibly disagree with you more. Evangelical Christians are in the position of people who have by far the lion's share of the pie, who are more widely tolerated and indulged in the United States in their religious displays than any other religion, and who are wailing and gnashing their teeth anytime they are asked to rein back their ostentatious dominance of the public arena in the slightest degree. It's insult on top of injury.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:59 AM on November 30

Hear hear.

posted by JJ at 12:33 PM on November 30

Instead of a four yearly tournament, my idea would be to put all the fundies from the major religions on a remote atoll in the Pacific, arm them, and leave them there.

More like Survivor than the Olympics.

Apart from being rollicking good TV, whatever happens, it would be a good outcome.

posted by owlhouse at 09:48 PM on November 30

Only if it was the atoll the French like to use for their nuclear testing.

posted by JJ at 04:55 AM on December 01

I love your idea, owlhouse. It's always the fundamentalists that mess it up for everybody.

posted by bperk at 06:17 AM on December 01

But you'd only get about 2-3 weekly segments out of that. To help extend the show to a full season's worth of episodes, you'd have to start them out with ploughshares, which they would then have to beat into swords.

posted by beaverboard at 08:01 AM on December 01

Why restrict yourself to major religions? Throw 'em all in.

Also, make 'em eat bugs. Bug-eating is required for all reality TV shows.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:50 PM on December 01

As an atheist, I find it all very intrusive. If Tebow wants to have a TV show like Joel Osteen then fantastic, those who are interested can watch it and those who aren't can choose not to. As a football fan, when I tune into a game or a post game show, I want to hear about and see football, not be preached to or have someone's brand of religion jammed down my throat. Tebow's tendency to deliver the Jesus juice, to those of us expecting football when we tune into football is intrusive, pushy and inconsiderate. It trivializes his own beliefs by assuming god really cares more about Tebow winning than much more serious world issues he seems to be ignoring.

Also can anybody explain to me how god could love all people but yet favor some so much? I mean Tebow thanks god because he and the Broncos beat San Diego, should the San Diego players be blaming god because obviously Jesus is on Tebows side and Norv Turner's not so much?

posted by Atheist at 04:40 PM on December 01

Well, Norv's problem is easily explained. God helps those who help themselves.

posted by beaverboard at 06:08 PM on December 01

Also can anybody explain to me how god could love all people but yet favor some so much?

Oh, you just had to go and open the prosperity gospel can o' worms...

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:48 PM on December 01

I mean Tebow thanks god because he and the Broncos beat San Diego

Yeah, no, he doesn't. Why don't you just watch an interview or read an article. You're putting words in his mouth.

It trivializes his own beliefs by assuming god really cares more about Tebow winning than much more serious world issues he seems to be ignoring.

You really haven't taken the time to not assume you know what you are talking about without looking into it at all have you?

posted by tselson at 12:01 AM on December 02

I'll save you some time. He's pretty consistent on comments like these.

He doesn't thank God for winning.

TEBOW: You know, I think He honestly does care about how we play on the field, more than anything more than win or lose our hearts on the field. On the field I'm trying to play for the glory of God but then also I'm trying to give everything I have and win and compete. And so I think more than just winning or losing, I think He cares about where our hearts are when we're playing.

O'REILLY: So you don't say before the game with the Dallas Cowboys, "Hey, God, let me win by at least 10 points here to..."

TEBOW: To cover the spread. [Laughs]

He understands that what he does on the football field is secondary to what he does off of it.

And I believe more than just a platform, it is a responsibility and obligation to be a great role model, to set a great example because it is one thing to score touchdowns, win trophies and championships.

But at the end of the day that doesn't matter. But if you can affect people, if you can change people's lives, if you can be a good role model, someone that a mom or dad can look to their son and say that's how you need to handle it.

He's not ignoring anything either.

when I tune into a game or a post game show, I want to hear about and see football, not be preached to or have someone's brand of religion jammed down my throat.

You want him to shut up? Great. Just don't use a brush that's too broad in your characterizing him. As is said here all the time if you don't like it you don't have to read it or in this case watch it. Right? Haven't I learned that here? I believe I have.

posted by tselson at 12:41 AM on December 02

Hear hear.

posted by phaedon at 02:22 AM on December 02

"if you can be a good role model, someone that a mom or dad can look to their son ..."

I know you can take a tiny piece of any conversation and turn it into anything you want, but this phrase is probably the poster-child for my personal Tebow "dilemma". On one hand, I think he's completely genuine about wanting to be a good role model, and that's refreshing in today's sports society. But, I think the theme of his "critics" in this thread is that some of his methods come across as fairly hard-sells that it's somehow your fault if you don't completely join him (I guess that's probably a core tenet of "missionaryism"). On the other hand, he's pretty spot-on with the statement above ... I WOULD be thrilled to have my son have the heart, compassion, general values that he seems to genuinely carry. Granted, I'd probably suggest to my kid that he tone down the religious rhetoric a bit, but I'd otherwise be pretty stinkin' proud of him.

posted by littleLebowski at 09:07 AM on December 02

"You want him to shut up? Great. Just don't use a brush that's too broad in your characterizing him. As is said here all the time if you don't like it you don't have to read it or in this case watch it. Right? Haven't I learned that here? I believe I have."

I think your statement "I don't have to watch it" applies only if we are talking about the Tim Tebow show. My problem with what he does, and I am not saying I have a problem with him or his values, is just this: if you go to a church you expect to be preached to and you can choose to go or not, if you go to a Disney Movie you have a right and expectation you will not see porn, if I tune into a football game or post game show, I have a right not to be ambushed with a speech about Jesus' love.

I do like Tebow and as a person he seems genuine and with a heart and attitude that is in the right place. That is the Tebow dilemma for me. I like him. In a world where so many athletes act conceited, entitled, arrogant, etc, what's not to like about a kid who is respectful, humble, considerate, and genuinely interested in being a good role model. If he could only ease off on the proselytizing....

Also I never meant to quote Tim Tebow or imply he said god cares about winning specifically. My point was whether he means to or not, the thanking of Jesus for everything seems to me to imply that he believes Jesus is responsible for his success and therefore cares in some way about it. In sports, one athletes success almost always results in their opponents failure. Thanking god for helping you succeed in sports is in a way also crediting him with your opponents failure, that comes across to me as if a person believes god is on their side. Many a war is waged and justified in the minds of the combatants, because they believe god is on their side.
Victory is the validation of that belief in the winner's eyes.

posted by Atheist at 12:03 PM on December 02

Imagine how things would be if it was a Muslim athlete and he was praising Mohammed as often as Tebow has been praising Jesus.

posted by grum@work at 04:45 PM on December 02

Evangelical Christians are in the position of people who have by far the lion's share of the pie, who are more widely tolerated and indulged in the United States in their religious displays than any other religion, and who are wailing and gnashing their teeth anytime they are asked to rein back their ostentatious dominance of the public arena in the slightest degree. It's insult on top of injury.

Boy that's not my experience. I have lived my entire life in liberal pluralistic metropolises (new word?) where displays of religious belief are generally well-received and protected feverishly, down to the bone as it were, unless they are derived from the Christian tradition, in which case they are viewed as overly-dominant, and therefore stripped away from whatever event or institution they have been historically associated with. This I feel is especially true at any institution of higher education I have had the pleasure of attending. I've met one person in my life who has openly identified themselves as adamantly Catholic. At the time we talked about what it meant to faithful amidst all the allegations of sexual abuse against the Church. I remember her being ashamed. Anyway, maybe this "ostentatious dominance" you refer to is more prevalent in Middle America.

Atheist, you use phrases like "ambushed" and "jammed down my throat" about somebody talking on a box in your living room about their religious beliefs and Tebow's doing neither of those things. It's possible your attitude is a little too unforgiving. It reminds of the way Chaz Bono was attacked by conservative groups for being allowed to dance on DWTS. Middle America doesn't want their children "ambushed" by a tranny. It's like come on, you're using loaded words to suggest this guy is an imminent psychological threat. It's a really easy way to shut down anyone who has opinions or lives a lifestyle you don't approve of.

But then again, I appreciate that in this "it's all about me" culture, people don't want to turn the tv and be exposed to something they know they don't want to see. This consumer-oriented culture we live in has affected people's ability to digest the voices of a diverse community. And TV enforces this by keeping this as milquetoast as possible. Which is what makes Tebow so annoying.

posted by phaedon at 06:16 PM on December 02

phaedon - I am perfectly willing to reassess my attitude but I don't consider anything I have said to be unforgiving. I am just stating what I find annoying and in some ways offensive, by Tebow's insistence on interjecting religion and his religious view in a place where it really doesn't belong. As for Chaz Bono on DWTS I can't comment because I don't watch that show but I would not have a problem with a transsexual dancing than anymore than I do with a Christian zealot playing football. My problem is not with the person, their beliefs or their lifestyle, my problem is having my football experience ruined by their out of place insistence on discussing it when they shouldn't.

I hope Tebow continues to be successful for the Broncos, and continues to play exciting football. I also hope the networks stop interviewing him if he insists on using the platform to spread the word. The same as I would object to someone turning the post game show into a political discussion. As much as I like one, that is not what I am interested in at that time.

posted by Atheist at 06:56 PM on December 02

I am just stating what I find annoying and in some ways offensive, by Tebow's insistence on interjecting religion and his religious view in a place where it really doesn't belong.

And yet you don't see the irony in you doing the same? You chose a username that makes quite the insistence of interjecting your beliefs in regards to religion on a sports site.

I am not saying I have a problem with him or his values, is just this: if you go to a church you expect to be preached to and you can choose to go or not, if you go to a Disney Movie you have a right and expectation you will not see porn, if I tune into a football game or post game show, I have a right not to be ambushed with a speech about Jesus' love.

I have made the same argument about tuning in to spofi and expecting to read about and discuss sports, not politics etc. The general response I get is that I don't have to come here or read the posts or articles etc. or that I should just enjoy the conversation that was spawned. That's where that snarky comment came from, atheist.

Other than that, my only issue with your posts and the point I was making was that you were not being accurate with your portrayal of Tebow.

My point was whether he means to or not, the thanking of Jesus for everything seems to me to imply that he believes Jesus is responsible for his success and therefore cares in some way about it.

You are not getting it. He thanks Jesus all the time because in Tebow's words, "he deserves it for what he did." He believes Jesus suffered and died on the cross for him. (from the Bayless interview) He is thanking Jesus for what Jesus did.

Now, when he says he is blessed, that means that God gave him the ability to destroy opposing defenses and win football games. It's code;)

posted by tselson at 11:39 PM on December 02

I have made the same argument about tuning in to spofi and expecting to read about and discuss sports, not politics etc. The general response I get is that I don't have to come here or read the posts or articles etc. or that I should just enjoy the conversation that was spawned.

The response you should get is that SportsFilter has always invited comment on the intersection of sports and the wider world. The injection of politics, religion and the like in a sports discussion is the norm here.

posted by rcade at 11:02 AM on December 03

Tebow lost all credibility as soon as he shilled for the notoriously bigoted Focus on the Family.

posted by kmzh at 04:54 PM on December 05

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