FanDuel - WFBC

August 31, 2011

Dan Pastorini: 'F--- Drew Brees': Retired NFL quarterback Dan Pastorini is angry about how ex-players fared in the NFL labor settlement and angry about comments Drew Brees made in 2009. "Fuck Drew Brees," said the 62-year-old. "I'm going to get an extra $1,000 a month. Big fucking deal. I think it's a travesty the way they treat the older players. ... By the time they get to a new CBA after 10 years, they won't have to worry about us pre-93er's. It's sad, but it's their M.O. They want to wait for us to die." A 2009 comment by Brees evidently hit close to home for the twice-bankrupt, once-divorced Pastorini: "There's some guys out there that have made bad business decisions," Brees said. "They took their pensions early because they never went out and got a job. They've had a couple divorces and they're making payments to this place and that place. And that's why they don't have money. And they're coming to us to basically say, 'Please make up for my bad judgment.'"

posted by rcade to football at 07:06 PM - 26 comments

There's some guys out there that have made bad business decisions," Brees said. "They took their pensions early because they never went out and got a job. They've had a couple divorces and they're making payments to this place and that place. And that's why they don't have money. And they're coming to us to basically say, 'Please make up for my bad judgment.'"

I don't see Mr. Pastorini's name mentioned in Mr. Brees quote, if he is being quoted acurately. But if the shoe fits, wear it. And I will take that $1,000 a month Pastorini is going to get if he thinks it isn't worth his time.

Upshaw was able to leave his wife $15,000,000.oo because of his salery as prez of the players union. Or at least it was a big factor in the amount. sheesh

I feel for the guys like Pastorini, but the choices you made after football are your own.

posted by steelergirl at 07:37 PM on August 31

Upshaw was able to leave his wife $15,000,000.oo because of his salery as prez of the players union.

Uhm, I don't necessarily agree with Mr. Pastorini's position, but I think you missed a point there: Upshaw made that money by selling out NFL players.

Pastorini is worried that he's going to be suffering from the dementia-like condition if he lives long enough.

Pastorini sounds like a moron trying to get his name in the paper. Congrats. Based on his bio, it sounds like the shoe fits pretty well. Married and divorced a Playboy playmate, raced dragsters. Poor bastard.

posted by yerfatma at 08:02 PM on August 31

That was a really stupid quote by Brees. The former players built this league, sacrificed their health, and were paid a pittance by today's standards. Since the ex-players weren't at the table, who really expected them to get a good deal?

posted by bperk at 08:51 PM on August 31

I'm pretty sure Drew Brees wasn't involved in the negotiation of prior CBAs. Sure sounds like a well established modus operandi to me. For whatever reason Brees seems to be the recipient of this guy's general rage.

It seems that in the US there is a general problem with retirees not being well represented in negotiations where they have a stake in the outcome. Maybe guys like Pastorini should be thinking about how to change that rather than what names to call strangers.

posted by feloniousmonk at 10:20 PM on August 31

Ma, I agree with you about Upshaw selling out the players. I think old "Dante" is just jealous of any former player who is/was better off than him.

bperk Pastorini was drafted third behind Heisman trophy winner Jim Plunkett and Archie Manning. I don't think either one of them has filed bankruptcy, and they both have been married to the same women for a long time. I don't hear either one of them crying the blues about money either.

Maybe guys like Pastorini should be thinking about how to change that rather than what names to call strangers.

True, feloniousmonk but that would be the mature thing to do.

posted by steelergirl at 10:45 PM on August 31

Let's put it this way: if Pastorini's generation had been made up entirely of players who, after retirement, invested their money in dull, diversified index funds and ignored the dubious advances of business and romantic partners, there's no way that the same infrastructure would exist either to shape the current CBAs, or to guide someone like Brees as soon as he entered the draft on how not to fuck himself over with all the money he'd get. That exists because of the travails of the generation who played at a time when big TV money started to enter the frame.

Yes, the choices you make after you retire are your own, but the context for those choices is now very well defined, and the repercussions of those choices visible through the lives of those who made them a few decades ago. It's very easy in hindsight to say "be careful making business deals and dating models", so while I don't particularly feel like defending Pastorini whole-heartedly, I think Brees' original comment showed a lack of awareness of the privilege that comes from knowing others' mistakes.

I don't hear either one of them crying the blues about money either.

That's a bit too neat: one went into coaching (and his kids aren't doing too badly), the other into broadcasting, so they never really left the game. The roster for both is a lot smaller, though.

posted by etagloh at 11:40 PM on August 31

Brees has a reputation for being smart, but he didn't help it by getting into a fight with bitter ex-players who squandered their money. It's just not a fight he's going to look good having, especially when some of those exes are battling expensive health problems.

posted by rcade at 12:28 AM on September 01

Yes, the choices you make after you retire are your own, but the context for those choices is now very well defined, and the repercussions of those choices visible through the lives of those who made them a few decades ago. It's very easy in hindsight to say "be careful making business deals and dating models", so while I don't particularly feel like defending Pastorini whole-heartedly, I think Brees' original comment showed a lack of awareness of the privilege that comes from knowing others' mistakes.

I can't really agree with this. Certainly Brees may have benefited from graphic examples of what not to do, but do people really always need a graphic example to avoid a mistake? When I see a rake lying on the ground, I can figure out all by myself that stepping on it is not a smart move -- I don't need to watch someone else do it.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:54 AM on September 01

F@CK Dan Pastorini. He made and squandered more money than most of us will see in a lifetime. Am I to feel sorry for him that he doesn't have the common sense or self preservation instincts that are inate in the common three toed sloth?

Say what you want; I think he's just a whiny bitch.

posted by Tinman at 10:24 AM on September 01

When I see a rake lying on the ground, I can figure out all by myself that stepping on it is not a smart move -- I don't need to watch someone else do it.

posted by grum@work at 10:59 AM on September 01

Tinman - right on.

Pastorini is a jerk for saying that and signaling out Brees. Sure players made a lot less in his day, but he fails to mention he was still rich by the standard of the day and had every opportunity to parlay his football earnings into a lucrative and comfortable life. Instead he wasted a lot by any standard. He made top NFL money for most of his career and then in 1986 Pastorini was awarded $450K by the court to settle a contract dispute with the Raiders.


So if you invested $450K in 1986 (what were home prices then, the stock market, the cost of living?) Do the math that money would have produced a very comfortable retirement let alone all the money he squandered while playing and after. He is a cry baby and frankly if he were playing today he would probably be in the same situation, but instead of squandering a few million he would have squandered a few tens of millions. While I recognize there are tremendous risks for playing football and tremendous rewards, I hate it when players act like they are victims. They choose and actively pursue their careers of their own free and almost all have the services of agents, lawyers, a training and medical staff, and financial advisers. If their own bad judgement makes for a hardship later on, they only have themselves to blame.

posted by Atheist at 11:31 AM on September 01

So do lottery winners owe previous lottery winners money for coming before them?

Pastorini spent his money racing dragsters, marrying playboy playmates, and even NOW has multiple businesses. http://www.dpqualityfoods.com/

We should all be so unlucky.

We should help him pay for his mistakes, like drunk driving. Without a license. In his Mercedes.

Upon his release he went directly to a golf tournament. http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/04-27-10-dan-pastorini-plays-through-dwi-cant-keep-oiler-from-charity-golf-tournament/

In 1977, he had to pay out 1.5 Million for killing two people in a speedboat crash. How much would that be worth today? I'm sure those relatives would rather have their loved ones back.

Pastorini was also involved in sports handicapping aka. bookmaking.

According to the second information, the gambling charges stem from Wire Wagering Act violations dealing with sports bets placed by undercover IRS-CID agents over the phone and Internet in Wisconsin with Gold Medal Sports in Curacao. The money laundering charges stem from twenty-one identified wire transfers or check disbursements, made in excess of $10,000, with Gold Medal betting funds. The identified money laundering transactions total in excess of $3,200,000 over a three-year time span.

The final set of charges in the second information relate to mail fraud counts. According to the information, Pede and D'Ambrosia's company, Sports Spectrum, solicited customers through false advertising to call one of four sports handicapper services (Jeff Allen Sports, Mike Wynn Sports, Razor Sharp Sports, and Dan Pastorini Sports) for the purpose of receiving "guaranteed" winning picks on upcoming sporting events. Once a customer called one of the four handicapper services, phone salesmen or "touters" would make and use false pretenses, statements and representations in an attempt to sell weekly or monthly "winning" pick packages to the customer.

2009: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/03/16/453392.html

Pastorini is entering his Lambo in Sebring.

F--k Dan Pastorini. Christ, what an a-hole. He still has a better life than most of us. He's looking for a handout. If I'm lucky, I might earn $1.5 Million in my lifetime... He has literally pi$$ed away more money than I'll ever see. And what has he done with that money? Helped people? Made anyone's life better other than his own?

Dan Pastorini has been a black eye on the face of the sport... The only mitigating factor is that he wasn't good enough to get mentioned often.

The funniest thing about this is that Brees didn't mention anyone by name... Pastorini is just upset that the generic description fit him to a tee. Dude is an embarrassment. Pete Rose has a cleaner image.

posted by LostInDaJungle at 12:16 PM on September 01

If their own bad judgement makes for a hardship later on, they only have themselves to blame.

Despite article after article of football players making bad decision because their brains have been completely turned to mush, people still want to ignore all the evidence of the physical and mental toll of football. How you think someone could support themselves and their family off of $450,000 I can't imagine? Do they not have taxes or lawyers in that fantasy world you live in?

posted by bperk at 12:22 PM on September 01

Do they not have taxes or lawyers in that fantasy world you live in?

Wait, so it's lawyers and taxes that caused Pastorini to piss away every penny he made? Atheist wasn't saying that $450K would support the man and his family for life; he was saying that $450K, wisely invested almost thirty years ago, earning compound interest, could provide a pretty nice little nest egg. Instead, $450K, spent buying and playing with fast cars and women, doesn't go very far. Especially when you marry and divorce said women.

posted by tahoemoj at 01:01 PM on September 01

Atheist wasn't saying that $450K would support the man and his family for life; he was saying that $450K, wisely invested almost thirty years ago, earning compound interest, could provide a pretty nice little nest egg.

And, I'm saying it was never $450,000. Lawyers and taxes would take that $450,000 and make it quite less than $450,000 in the real world.

posted by bperk at 01:12 PM on September 01

I was only saying he received a lump sum judgement from the Raiders in 1986 for $450K. That is no where near what he made in his career. I am merely pointing out that this guy has nothing to complain about except his own decisions, and that $450K in 1986 isn't the measly $450K that it is today. The fact that he referred to a $1000 per month extra in his pension as "big fucking deal" just shows that because of football, he has an extremely distorted idea of the average persons retirement situation probably due to the fact the NFL players make a ton of money and have great benefits. His complaints are ridiculous and do nothing in the way of gaining sympathy from a public that already sees players as making way too much money.

He did accomplish making himself look like an ass.

posted by Atheist at 01:47 PM on September 01

The fact that he referred to a $1000 per month extra in his pension as "big fucking deal" just shows that because of football, he has an extremely distorted idea of the average persons retirement situation probably due to the fact the NFL players make a ton of money and have great benefits. His complaints are ridiculous and do nothing in the way of gaining sympathy from a public that already sees players as making way too much money.

He wasn't comparing himself to the average person and why should he? He and the other former players helped build the NFL into a multi-billion dollar organization and the thanks they got was many of them being left nearly crippled. It's true that $12,000 a year (before taxes) is a big deal to a lot of people, but for someone with medical problems, it is chump change. I think it is a perfectly valid criticism that the CBA did little for such players considering the amount of money that was on the table, regardless of whether he made bad decisions (and who hasn't?). And, really, do you think it is fine for Drew Brees, someone who has made more in one year than Pastorini made in his career, to criticize the former players?

posted by bperk at 02:18 PM on September 01

And, really, do you think it is fine for Drew Brees, someone who has made more in one year than Pastorini made in his career, to criticize the former players?

Yes. Because Pastorini seems like the exact kind of asshole no one should be helping out. It's not like this is Art Donovan or Jim Otto. This is some dude who made a million bucks playing football. Is he injured in some way? The only thing mentioned in the article is that he thinks he might be suffering from a disease that's been in the news a lot recently. I bet Brees and the other current players are probably sick of hearing from guys like this trying to ride the coat-tails of actually injured, actually poor former players. Guys like Pastorini fuck things up for everyone else.

posted by yerfatma at 02:23 PM on September 01

do people really always need a graphic example to avoid a mistake?

There's a famous George Best line: "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." But Best was just the most prominent of a generation of players, after the abolition of the maximum wage in 1961, who got more money than they knew what to do with at a young age and ended up with a lot of hangers-on. The clich of the retired footballer with a pub and a drinking problem wasn't far from the truth.

Modern footballers still have their hangers-on and their kiss-and-tell scandals and nightclub incidents, but there's also an infrastructure in place to try and keep them from pissing away the money they earn -- as well as a post-retirement environment that provides much greater opportunity to stay close to the game through coaching or punditry. (Consider Paul Mariner and Steve Nicol's post-playing careers.)

So while I'm not excusing Pastorini of personal responsibility for his current situation, I do think that, whether they like it or not, Brees and the current generation of players are beneficiaries of the equivalent generation to Best's in the NFL -- and to some extent, beneficiaries of the "bad judgement" of those players.

(Pastorini was drafted exactly 30 years before Brees; exactly 30 years before Pastorini, this was the NFL draft.)

posted by etagloh at 02:26 PM on September 01

Despite article after article of football players making bad decision because their brains have been completely turned to mush, people still want to ignore all the evidence of the physical and mental toll of football.

If you want to make a general argument that hits to the head make former NFL players incapable of making good decisions, that needs another thread, and a link to supporting evidence. This thread is about one individual's statements, and if you want to bring up the "brains have been completely turned to mush" argument here, you really need to point to some evidence that this is the case for this individual.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:04 PM on September 01

While I recognize the contribution the players of old made to the sport of football, I don't think it is fair to say they built the league into the mega billion dollar business it is today. I am not trying to deny their talent, but they were guys who were good at football. Good enough for some visionary businessmen to pay for their services. Something most of them did for love of the game even if they did not get paid. It is the league of owners who have built their businesses over generations to make the league and its revenue what it is today. What the players can take credit for, is that they have organized and created a situation in which they now share in that revenue and they deserve to. NFL football did not happen because there were guys who were great football players and liked to play football. It happened because business men decided to try to build a league and market it to the public and they did a great job. All a bunch of good football players can give you is a good game. Good businessmen created a league that offers talent a showcase and the opportunity to make money. I will think differently when NFL players union tries to take care of players of old who only played college ball or USFL ball because in truth those players also paved the way for players today. The fact that other leagues with very talented players did not succeed is a testament to what the business & ownership side of the NFL has created for itself and the players. It was people like Art Rooney, Lamar Hunt, Al Davis, Pete Rosell etc who are really responsible for what we have now. Whether or not Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, Dan Pastorini or any other individual ever played or not, would have little effect on what we have now. It is the game that allows greatness to shine, the talents of the players did not create the game.

It is because of the guys who invested in and developed the league that a guy who is big, fast and skilled can make millions playing football, not the other way around. Without the record business, Elvis would have just been a talented kid with a guitar that few people would have known about.

Players deserve to make all they can. Individual players are short term and make a very short term contribution to the scenario. That is why they deserve to be paid extravagantly while they play. Keeping a business model viable and growing for generations, through economic cycles is really what is the success of the NFL. That is why I tend to side with ownership. The truth is most NFL team owners are successful in business without football regardless of what they choose to do. There is always a lot of money to be made by smart businessmen. On the other hand without the NFL, running a 4.3 forty, having good hands, and bench pressing 400 lbs would have little market value. The players should be thanking the NFL and its business model not acting like they are the sole reason for its success.

posted by Atheist at 03:59 PM on September 01

Despite article after article of football players making bad decision because their brains have been completely turned to mush, people still want to ignore all the evidence of the physical and mental toll of football.

A lot of young players make terrible financial decisions in pro sports before they've had time to develop mushy brains. Pastorini's been making bad decisions his entire adult life.

I'm in agreement that we should pay attention to the evidence of the physical damage football can do. I just don't know if I'd include this as part of it.

posted by rcade at 04:17 PM on September 01

This thread is about one individual's statements, and if you want to bring up the "brains have been completely turned to mush" argument here, you really need to point to some evidence that this is the case for this individual.

Bullshit. I don't have to ignore all the evidence of what chronic traumatic encephalopathy looks like in players while they are still alive to believe that it contributes to former players making bad decisions. I didn't say Pastorini had it anyway. Brees made a general statement about former players making bad decisions, so all the recent evidence about the brains of former players and the behavior caused by the damage is relevant.

I bet Brees and the other current players are probably sick of hearing from guys like this trying to ride the coat-tails of actually injured, actually poor former players. Guys like Pastorini fuck things up for everyone else.

Really? Pastorini is the reason the CBA didn't include medical expenses for former players in the CBA? You can believe that if you want to. Pastorini is an easy target, but the CBA speaks volumes. They made the health benefits more generous for the current players, but didn't extend that generosity to most of the former players (check out the neuro-cognitive disability benefit which will allow players to collect the benefit without proving it was caused by football - how great - but only for players since 1994).

posted by bperk at 04:40 PM on September 01

It was people like Art Rooney, Lamar Hunt, Al Davis, Pete Rosell etc who are really responsible for what we have now.

Or perhaps Roone Arledge, but spare me from bowing and scraping at the feet of the holy sainted owners.

posted by etagloh at 04:45 PM on September 01

Bullshit. I don't have to ignore all the evidence of what chronic traumatic encephalopathy looks like in players while they are still alive to believe that it contributes to former players making bad decisions. didn't say Pastorini had it anyway. Brees made a general statement about former players making bad decisions, so all the recent evidence about the brains of former players and the behavior caused by the damage is relevant.

Mm, that's somewhat fair, I guess, but I still think your logic is faulty. Chronic traumatic encephalopathy leads to diminished mental capacity which would sure seem likely to lead to bad decisions, but you can't look at a former football player who made a bunch of bad decisions (either a particular case or in general) and automatically conclude that that's how they got there. There are many paths that lead to the same end.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:59 PM on September 01

I think he's just pissed because I was a kid, I called him Dan Interceptorini.

posted by wfrazerjr at 06:03 PM on September 01

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