What Makes a Good SportsFilter Post: Rather than letting the discussion take place in the Warriors/Mavs topic, I'm moving it here.
posted by rcade to navel gazing at 10:12 AM - 73 comments
From terrapin: telamarketersbeware: perhaps you didn't see my link to the Guidelines in your last (deleted) thread that was a link to a Yahoo article, but here is the relevant section:
* SportsFilter is not the place to get your daily, mundane sporting news. SportsFilter was not designed to replace ESPN or Yahoo! Sports. SportsFilter was created to find, or filter, the best sports related sites and writing on the internet and share them with the community.
* SportsFilter is not a fan board. If your idea of discussion is "yankees suck, red sox rule," SportsFilter is not for you. Fandom is encouraged (we're all fans here), but this is not a place to see who can yell go birds!!1! louder and more often than anyone else.
posted by rcade at 10:13 AM on April 23
TelamarketersBeware: You need to put more effort into your front-page posts (and select a username that isn't misspelled). I added some material to the Mavs/Warriors post to salvage it.
You guys know that i have never had any writing experiance like this in my 15-year life and i wanted to try it out. I'm sorry for all the violations i have comitted. Thanks for editing my post rcade, but what was wrong with my last post about the NBA coaches?
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:18 AM on April 23
You guys know that i have never had any writing experiance like this in my 15-year life Huh? How would we know that?
posted by jerseygirl at 10:22 AM on April 23
See? i have no writing experiance.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:23 AM on April 23
So, kid, how much writing have you done?
posted by Fat Buddha at 10:25 AM on April 23
All of my public writing has been done here.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:30 AM on April 23
One issue I have right now is the criticism of the name. It may be mispelled, but so is mine. Unlike other nicknames we have criticized in the past, I do not believe that TelamarketersBeware is really offensive. TB, the real issue here is that the front page is for unique or important articles that won't be found simply by looking at the box scores in a newspaper. I can get the Detroit News and know that the Warriors beat the Mavs. Sportsfilter is not a place for game by game recaps. Now if the Warriors are to advance to the second round of the playoffs that is a good time for an FPP. Here are a few good FPP's made by members of this site.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:41 AM on April 23
Huh? Which part is blatantly wrong in your name? Ying? Yang? Mafia?
posted by jerseygirl at 10:51 AM on April 23
I agree with Ying Yang Mafia about the name misspelling, and I am sorry I pointed it out in the Bull's Homer thread (even if I did so in small type). However, I would still like to suggest that TelamarketersBeware use a spell checking application (newest version of Firefox is great for this as it underlines suspect words in red!).
posted by scully at 10:55 AM on April 23
jerseygirl: The correct term is "Yin and Yang" with no gee in the first word.
posted by scully at 10:56 AM on April 23
You guys know that i have never had any writing experiance like this in my 15-year life and i wanted to try it out. I'm sorry for all the violations i have comitted. Good try, kid. If you put in the effort this site is one of the few worth it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:59 AM on April 23
I posed this question in another LR thread, but this seems a more appropriate place for the discussion so I feel obliged to repeat it here (I'm not trying to spray my point all over the place, but simply find a good place to continue the discussion). Using the criteria and explanations that TBeware is being given here, why would this thread (game recap via mlb.com), this thread (via Yahoo news), this thread (game recap via mlb.com), this thread (AP via ESPN), this thread (AP via Yahoo), or really even this thread (mlb.com page with other links) get green lights without the same scrutiny? I'm seriously not trying to be difficult, but if I'm in TBeware's shoes I would be very confused as to why I'm getting called to the shed here. Heck, even in my shoes it's a little confusing. And my shoes have wicked cool wheels in the heels. Which part is blatantly wrong in your name? I missed it, too, jg. I thought he was referring to the more entertaining "Wing Wang" spelling.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:02 AM on April 23
Which part is blatantly wrong in your name? I thought he was a fan of the Ying Yang Twins.
posted by bperk at 11:14 AM on April 23
Thanks for editing my post rcade, but what was wrong with my last post about the NBA coaches? I didn't think there was enough meat to it. Sports Illustrated runs lists all the time, and most of the time there's no hook -- they just seem to think readers love lists. As for your name, unless it's a play on words to spell it "Telamarketers", it just opens you up to more criticism here. If it's a spelling goof, it would be best to correct it. Unlike other nicknames we have criticized in the past, I do not believe that TelamarketersBeware is really offensive. Offensive usernames like redsoxrgay are less likely to be allowed these days. I think we changed that one, if I'm not mistaken. Sousepaw: I think there's a difference between a game recap and other news links -- recaps need to show more reason to be linked since there's nothing inherently newsworthy in one game's result. I tried to show him with the second link on the Mavs/Warriors post what he could do better. I could've done the same to some of the others you linked. Perhaps we should have some sites we won't accept as the only link in a single-link post, like espn.com.
posted by rcade at 11:17 AM on April 23
You're right Crafty - a few of those shouldn't rate, either. Specifically the baseball ones. However - Yankees/Red Sox is far too popular to constantly fight against, it would seem. There is a bias in the community. Four homers in a row I think is interesting enough. A thread for every game? - Sons of Sam Horn, please. Fired coach post prompts the discussion towards who one would think is next to be fired, so that's not too bad, but was essentially ignored. The Urlacher post I think is assuredly good fodder for discussion. I don't think we try to officially suggest that you CAN'T link to ESPN, Yahoo or others - you just should be trying to find better links - but if the news item isn't particularly special and you have some confidence that the discussion will be, then I think a little slack is warranted.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:19 AM on April 23
Yea i was just wondering. Because the post about the top 10 college coaches made it through and it was a list.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 11:23 AM on April 23
Crafty: I was about to agree with you, but I think there is a difference. Many of those links you provided point out something (somewhat) unusual in sports and not just a game report. A player getting fines, players admitting marijuana use, a team going back-to-back-to-back-to-back, a no-hitter, etc. (A-Rod's walk-off is a little suspect though). TMBeware's posts were links to results from first round playoff games. At least that is my take.
posted by scully at 11:26 AM on April 23
Banning AP stories on ESPN or Yahoo wouldn't be so bad. But what about columns or investigative pieces exclusive to those sites? Perhaps ban any single link post with (AP) in the opening line?
posted by SummersEve at 11:28 AM on April 23
I thought he was a fan of the Ying Yang Twins. Same.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:29 AM on April 23
This may be out of the topic, but has anyone ever tried the link "Free NBA Jerseys" under "Ads by Google" in the top right corner of this page?
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 11:36 AM on April 23
Wait, you're 15? Insert obligatory "Why aren't you in school?" comment here.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:40 AM on April 23
I'm homeschooled. It's a miserable, long, and boring experiance.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 11:44 AM on April 23
Sports Illustrated runs lists all the time, and most of the time there's no hook -- they just seem to think readers love lists. But I do! /slinks back into shadows.
posted by grum@work at 11:50 AM on April 23
Yea i like lists to.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 11:56 AM on April 23
It's a miserable, long, and boring experiance. Although, that's not much different than high school really.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:56 AM on April 23
TMBeware: Okay, you've misspelled "experience" three times now, so I must say something. Please ask your teacher to get you a dictionary or learn to use a spell-checker. Please? I'm begging you! :)
posted by scully at 12:04 PM on April 23
The real problem is not the use of certain content providers, but the use of wire stories from the Associated Press, Reuters and others, which are almost always watered-down versions of a local news story. Usually, these have some indication of their nature from the beginning: "AP Sports Writer", "NEW YORK (AP)", etc. Yahoo! and ESPN carry a lot of wire stories, but so do local papers. So it isn't simply a matter of saying "No Yahoo" or "No ESPN", because there are some investigative stories and original columns from those sources that far surpass the quality of wire stories, even when those wire stories are carried in local papers. It's a lot easier to just say "don't use ESPN" than to explain the concept of a wire story, but unfortunately a lot of members tend to look past this simplification as well. The idea behind SportsFilter - finding links to truly well-written stories, and then discussing those stories in a thoughtful manner, whether they be breaking news or analysis - is distinct from the idea behind almost every other sports board out there, which is just to say the hell with quality writing, let's drop the gloves and bare-knuckle box each other into submission (or boredom). I'm not sure that there's any magical warning or guideline that can educate new members to this concept, but in my short time here I've seen many joinees get progressively enlightened as to what we're all about through the assistance of veteran community members. Essentially, if we hold our new members to a high standard and back each other up in doing so, the group of quality SpoFi users will grow and the ability of the community to self-police links and comments will increase, which in my mind is a better way to do it than some kind of ESPN-block or something like that.
posted by Venicemenace at 12:10 PM on April 23
Here's a list for you, TMB. In your defense, the words you're misspelling are on there so you're not alone.
posted by SummersEve at 12:15 PM on April 23
SpoFi: We'll homeschool ya right good!
posted by smithers at 12:33 PM on April 23
I'm homeschooled. It's a miserable, long, and boring experiance. Dude, you need to fire your teacher. Seriously, welcome to SportsFilter and even though I've ragged on you in other threads, I think you're doing a really good thing at your age. Just leave yourself open to positive critiques and you'll do fine.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 12:54 PM on April 23
I guess we should give TMBeware a break. I'm sure his spelling is good enough to get him into a second-tier school like Duke ;)
posted by scully at 01:12 PM on April 23
More than a year ago I ran an analysis of the links provided within FPP's on SpoFi. (I do plan to share it but I did this as part of another project which has yet to be completed.) Relevant to this discussion: for the sample I considered, the most popular source was ESPN (867 links, 19% of the total) and the second most popular source was Yahoo! (328 links). So I don't think that we should get all down on ESPN and Yahoo! Those two sources together make up more than 25% of the links on the front page.
posted by Amateur at 01:33 PM on April 23
I would rather go to VT than Duke. Love there basketball team, hate there school. Can we post links from NBA.com?
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 01:40 PM on April 23
Amateur: Yes, but I think it is important to distinguish between AP/service links and articles, features, etc. A story by Bill Simmons about picking an EPL team on ESPN is not the same as a box score link. Are you able to check the difference in your analysis?
posted by scully at 01:46 PM on April 23
The issue is less the source and more the quality. Is it insightful? Well written? Will it inspire thought provoking conversation? Is it deeper analysis than just a game summary? Post it. (There - location, their - possessive, they're they are. Their school.
posted by apoch at 01:46 PM on April 23
Love there basketball team, hate there school. Okay, I have to leave now before I pull out what little is left of my hair
posted by scully at 01:47 PM on April 23
Love their basketball team, hate their school. Maybe you can buy Briteny Spears hair.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 01:52 PM on April 23
posted by jerseygirl at 02:00 PM on April 23
This is a joke, right?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:16 PM on April 23
Britney Spears's hair
posted by jmd82 at 02:21 PM on April 23
No one is getting to the real issue here. Dude is totally hedging on my turf. We're gonna rain on you, Warriors! In all seriousness, the Posting Guidelines make it pretty clear what is acceptable:
A good link is sports-related, newsworthy and encourages discussion among the community. Links should be about something new -- such as a breaking news story, an interesting commentary, or a noteworthy sports site. The more specific the link the better. Linking to a preview of the Super Bowl is OK. Linking to an article on how the field conditions might affect play is better. The way you describe a link has a direct impact on the way it will be discussed by members.
posted by lilnemo at 02:41 PM on April 23
Crafty, it wasn't like I was salivating over posting something direct from mlb.com. Before I posted it, I read five different stories, and the meat wasn't there, or they turned out to be roundup stories, which I am loathe to post here. Plus, the Red Sox making four consecutive trips to TaterTown for the first time in their history, in (like it or not) the biggest regular-season stage MLB has to offer does not belong in a comparison with a recap of a first-round NBA playoff game that may or may not mean anything in a week. I give a damn about my FPPs, and try to make sure there's some quality to them. And I can spell, and could when I was 15 years old, too, so I don't think I deserve to be held up as some sort of example of what not to do. And, it's "Britney Spears' hair."
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:56 PM on April 23
And, it's "Britney Spears' hair." Depends on who you ask.
posted by bperk at 04:04 PM on April 23
posted by lilnemo at 04:23 PM on April 23
TBH, I was just trying to point out that the hard-and-fast rules being laid out to TBeware aren't all that hard or fast, that FPPs are really looked upon with more of the art/pornography discernment. "Don't use AP stories," "Don't use Yahoo or ESPN," and the like don't work because some of those stories are better than others or at least engender good discussion. "Don't use game recaps" (like yours) obviously isn't strict policy, either, as some recaps clearly offer more than others. I posted the thread about the four consecutive homers last year, but I got kind of lucky and found a Dodgers blog that I thought had a pretty good take on the game. If you couldn't find anything better than the MLB recap, I believe you, and would rather see that than nothing on it. I only used it to illustrate how the instructions being given to TBeware might be confusing on a glance through the front page. It wasn't with the intent of holding you up as an example of what not to do. I could spell when I was 15, too. I just can't now. And I have no opinion on the hair of Britney Spears.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 05:24 PM on April 23
I think Venicemenace hit the nail on the head with his view of wire/AP articles being the problem, not necessarily espn. It can be tough on new members because there are times things slip by that shouldn't, so it can be confusing to understand what's a good post and what's not. I'm a big fan of lillnemo's playoff style posting. We'll eventually have a flaggin system that would help shape the site. That should help.
posted by justgary at 06:38 PM on April 23
TelamarketersBeware, I can see that you are quite sincere in your desire to participate in the SpoFi community. The errors you are committing are those of eagerness, and are not the malicious, mean spirited posts we see too often from those new to the site. I hope you stay around, because I can see you becoming one of the better contributors in time. I too have a couple of suggestions to improve your writing. The first echo a couple that have already been given. That is, use a dictionary and a thesaurus when you need to. There are a number of on-line resources available. Second, buy a copy of "The Elements of Style" by Strunk and White. This is a writer's bible, and it will give you the foundation you need for basic writing. Finally, edit your writing, then go back and edit it again. Do your composing off line, then copy and paste the result. Remember that good writing is not easy. Some author once said that it required the "firm application of the seat of the pants to the seat of the chair". Work at your writing. Accept criticism with the understanding that it is offered to help, not run you down. Above all, do not get discouraged. On edit, I find that I sound rather presumptious. My apologies to all the veteran SpoFiers for my temerity, but I felt I should add to the discussion.
posted by Howard_T at 07:00 PM on April 23
Some author once said that it required the "firm application of the seat of the pants to the seat of the chair". I live with a novelist. She often speaks to groups of aspiring writers. Her take is: "There are three rules for good writing. Unfortunately no-one knows what they are."
posted by owlhouse at 07:07 PM on April 23
I agree with Venice too. That's why I said what he said 32 minutes earlier. Or three days ago. My fragile ego needs stroking. Please tell me I'm beautiful.
posted by SummersEve at 07:28 PM on April 23
You smell like a field of daisies, SE.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:42 PM on April 23
What summerseve said.
posted by justgary at 10:22 PM on April 23
On edit, I find that I sound rather presumptious. My apologies to all the veteran SpoFiers for my temerity, but I felt I should add to the discussion. That would be "presumptuous", as long as we're all being editors here.
posted by jm_mosier at 06:23 AM on April 24
Never in the field of the written word have so many stones been thrown by so many occupants of so many glass houses. Apparently, it's "Britney Spears's hair", according to William Strunk, Jr., the US Government Printing Office and the Oxford University Press. Unless of course you consider "Britney Spears" an "ancient proper name". It's no wonder TB has trouble. I have to say in his defence (or "his defense" if we're trying to keep the lad on the US straight and narrow and not pollute him with trans-Atlantic ancient English like what we talk in the UK, innit?) that he has shown great maturity in this thread. I don't know many 15 year olds, but I was one once and I'm fairly sure that listening to and taking on board criticism wasn't my strongest suit. As has been mentioned before, TB, stick it out. It's worth it in the end. [Oh, and paging Amateur for the Landis thread]
posted by JJ at 08:32 AM on April 24
OK, I'm going. In response to the earlier question -- I can't really tell anything about link quality without checking all of the 1000+ links by hand, and most of them don't exist any more. My point was that we shouldn't make blanket statements about ESPN or Yahoo links when we all do it. Others have said the same thing here a few times.
posted by Amateur at 08:51 PM on April 24
"Britney Spears's hair" Y'mean like "Britney Spears's hair's all gone. I seen all the pichers on the gossup sites, even the R-rated won's. My super visor made me kwit lookin at 'em."?
posted by tahoemoj at 03:36 AM on April 25
I thought they would like auction her hair or sumthing like that.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 09:04 AM on April 25
I fear for your generation.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:21 AM on April 25
something* Sorry online game moment.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:31 AM on April 25
That would be "presumptuous" On further edit, I find that my "i" key is far too close to my "u" key. My bust. I should read my own stuff more closely. Thanks, jm.
posted by Howard_T at 10:58 AM on April 25
I fear for your generation. Yeah it's going to be rough once social security and medicare runs out. But we'll manage. I hope.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:25 PM on April 25
No worries, Yang. I have a supply of catfood and my ice floe all picked out.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:27 PM on April 25
You're assuming there'll still be ice.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:29 AM on April 26
Talk of global warming always reminds me of this. Is that weird?
posted by SummersEve at 06:26 AM on April 26
You're assuming there'll still be ice. Damn! Time for plan C.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:14 AM on April 26
OOps. The wiki is already being spammed... I just edited out some male enhancement-related spam.... unless yerfatma meant that to be there.
posted by scully at 08:04 AM on April 26
Oops. Wrong thread. Moved to Sportsfilter book thread.
posted by scully at 08:08 AM on April 26
Male enhancement-related spam. I wonder if Hormel Foods ever considered how incredibly profitable that could be.
posted by SummersEve at 08:12 AM on April 26
Wow i misspell a word and now the topic is male enhancement-related spam and global warming crap. I am truly amazing
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:04 AM on April 26
I am truly amazing I'll agree with you there, although I guarantee, not in the way you're thinking.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:25 AM on April 26
Sorry online game moment. TMBeware: That's another point from The Guidelines you seem to be missing—or not reading at all: * Keep the spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes to a minimum. Over use of caps, exclamation points, italics, bold, and aol-speak are discouraged. Take pride in what you are writing. Where AOL-speak also equals gamer speak. Please stop digging a deeper hole. People in this thread, for the most part, are trying to be supportive and encouraging. Continuing to ignore the Guidelines and tips being give to you will not help you if you plan to be a part of this long-standing community.
posted by scully at 12:18 PM on April 26
Terrapin. When i say that it means i didn't notice until sombody brought it up. Sorry, accident.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 12:29 PM on April 26
I wonder if Hormel Foods ever considered how incredibly profitable that could be. My meatloaf lunch almost came out of my nose, SE.
posted by scully at 12:38 PM on April 26
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