irunfromclones’s profile

Venus defaulted to Serena minutes before their semifinal started.

Could it have simply been that the fans were upset about the default? Doesn't the default mean that Serena gets to the final without playing a match, and is therefore more rested?

Maybe the fans were more motivated by what they saw as collusion on the part of the sisters rather than race. Or maybe they felt cheated that the match didn't take place when they paid big bucks to see it.

It seems to me that Venus gave Serena an unfair advantage, they got properly boo'd for it, then threw out the race card to deflect further criticism.

posted at 12:38 PM CDT on July 17

If you prefer to see them as overly sensitive despite the evidence to the contrary, I think that says more about you than it does them.

Being a minority myself I think that I am pretty sensitive to racial behavior. I was just wondering if it was mere coincidence that the booing began at the point where the default occurred.

I don't think it says any more about me than that I don't always take things at face value or automatically accept everyone else's version of events. I like to look at the evidence and think for myself.

I don't believe that it is so far out of the realm of possibility that the fans might have been angry at what they perceived was an unfair advantage given from sibling to sibling, ot that they may have felt cheated out of a match after paying a pretty high price to see it. I also have a hard time believing that the majority of that crowd just happened to be so blatantly racist.

I do think that after having made their point the booing went on far longer than necessary. Of course, I would strenuously object to and condemn any racist comment made by any member of that crowd

posted at 4:31 PM CDT on July 17

It's pretty shitty that this thread has become a discussion on Richard Williams instead of on what the Williams's sisters have faced.

I think it's integral to the discussion of whether or not booing is considered racist soley on the fans being white and the athlete black, given the prior conduct, history, and attitude of someone closely related to the athlete.

Perhaps Serena didn't do anything wrong, but two days later or not, she still represented what fans evidently saw as being there through an unfair advantage or even a deliberate act. In short, cheating. Try taking the color out of the mix for a moment and look at the circumstances then.

If the Williams sisters and their father honestly feel that it was racially motivated and they no longer want to play that venue then they shouldn't be penalized for it.

posted at 6:00 PM CDT on July 17

lbb, bperk; please, I'm not trying to provoke you or minimize the seriousness of this issue. I was merely postulating a possible alternative.

Their decision is based on what happened.

Does anyone know for certain exactly what happened? Most sources say the crowd boo'd. Sources say it was Mr. Williams who stated that there were racial taunts, and given his background, I think its correct to question his veracity. I am in no way shape or form defending or condoning the actions of the fans if racial taunts or comments were made.

Perhaps I didn't state my thoughts correctly, but I wasn't intentionally playing word games.

posted at 7:37 PM CDT on July 17

lbb:

I don't recall ever saying that any source was unimpeachable. I do believe however that some sources are less believable than others.

Why is it easier to believe a known racist might have heard some racist taunts, rather than it might have been just paying customers expressing their feelings by booing someone they thought cheated?

posted at 1:29 AM CDT on July 21

Venus Williams and Davenport withdrew last week from the tournament in Carson, with both citing right knee injuries. USA Today

That's no comparison at all boknows. Those withdrawals took place before that tournament even began, while Venus withdrew minutes before the semi-final match began. These allegations could be nothing more than an attempt to deflect criticism and accusations of match fixing.

Why be so quick to believe a guy who sees racism in any criticism of his daughters? All I and some others are suggesting is that perhaps there is another reason they were boo'd.

So, a top seeded tennis player withdraws from a semi-final match with another top seeded player only minutes before it starts, and the other top seeded player just happens to be her sister. So instead of seeing a match they paid big bucks for, they get to go home and be OK with not getting what they paid for. When the final match does occur 2 days later with the sister and her opponent, they aren't allowed to let their displeasure at being deprived of a match under suspect conditions felt. Got it.

posted at 12:26 PM CDT on July 22

Booing is okay. Racial slurs are not

No arguement there. I guess it has to do with your own perceptions. I would never utter racial slurs myself and tend to believe most other people are like me. I know that there are elements in society that would, but people like that seem remote to me, well outside the norm.

I would just like to say how pleased I am that while this has been a spirited and even adversarial thread, no one has resorted to personal attacks or name calling. What the hell is wrong with you bozos?

posted at 1:25 PM CDT on July 22

on earth are you so dead certain that the two "theys" are the same?

I assume that you know that the "theys" I refer to were the crowds in attendance the day of the semi-final, and on the day of the finals match involving one of the players from the defaulted semi-final.

Why am I so dead certain that there were at least some of the same crowd in attendance for both? Unless you are willing to believe that at this tournament and no other, the crowd is suddenly a bunch of raving racists, what other explanation is there?

How many other tournaments have the Williams sisters pulled out of because of racial taunts? I just have a hard time believing that people in this particular venue for no particular reason suddenly went redneck on her. Why boo her and make alleged racist comments on this particular occasion and no other?

posted at 3:48 PM CDT on July 22

I think my responses would have satisfied anyone else. You seem bound and determined to believe based on hearsay evidence that racial taunts were used. All I and others did here was to suggest a possible alternative.

Given the circumstances, it does seem possible that at least some of the people who were there the day that Venus withdrew were also there the day that Serena played in the final. So yes, to me the "theys" are likely the same. People who usually pay for semi-final games will pay to be there at the finish.

The circumstances being what they are, what other possible reason would they have for just going off on Serena if it wasn't for the suspected cheating? Has this venue a lot of history of hurling racial taunts at black players? Why pick this match, this player, and this particular time?

Speaking of word games, what's the difference between pulling out of a tournament and boycotting it, other than just semantics.

Any player is allowed to withdraw from a match at any time

Perhaps, but when the players are sisters it would seem to be a tad suspicious in most people's minds.

Can you provide a single cite of someone who says, "No, I was there, I was near Richard Williams and someone definitely used that word? I don't think I am alone in stating that I wouldn't take Mr. Williams word as gospel.

posted at 7:30 PM CDT on July 22

lbb-

I offered a plausible alternative, as did others in this thread. It just seemed odd to me that for no other reason offered than racial bias, an entire tennis crowd decided to taunt a player with racist comments. A completely racist crowd showed up at that tournament. What are the odds?

In the literally hundreds of games I have attended in my life in many different sports and states, not once did I hear a racial slur directed at any athlete of any color.

And bperk, at what point in this timeline does the doctor hold a press conference to discuss Venus' injury? Is it so difficult to at least entertain the thought that people were just pissed rather than that the entire crowd consisted of rabid racists?

And I am really dissapointed in you for making the accusation that I would "eagerly" believe the worst of a black athlete but wouldn't for a white one. Read my posts. At any time have I posted anything on spofi that would lead you to believe that?

posted at 8:56 PM CDT on July 22