Not in order... 3b) Orlando works as well for me. I think my email address is in my profile. If not it will be before March. 3a) Very possible..and I have a hunch you're closer to the source there than I am. 2) True, he was one of 90-something first considered and he made the first cut. His being happy for the others who did make it doesn't answer why those four committee members didn't say "yes" to O'Neil. 1) "I just suggest that his failure to do so was not a defining moment in his life in his mind." -- Not something I suggested either. 0) "There is a dangerous line here between not voting for Buck and voting against him. " -- As far as that committee was concerned, both options are the same. It was either a "yes" or "nothing" vote for each candidate. They weren't limited to the number they could vote for, so saying "yes" to O'Neil didn't bump anyone else off the list. I think two beers and we can call this one done.
posted by ?! at 04:33 PM on October 12
Thanks. Here is the link.
posted by ?! at 09:53 PM on October 10
"Regardless of the criteria listed on the ballot:" -- I can't agree with that. The HoF appoints these committees for a reason -- to fill a hole the baseball writers can not. If you follow your list you'll notice that 18 members of the HoF are not listed as "Player, Manager, Umpire, or Executive." They are listed as "Negro Leaguer." Those members were added to the HoF through committees --The Veterans Committee and the Negro Leagues Committee. Those 18 could have listed as Players. But they weren't. They were not because the HoF is not a steel rules institution. They have bent or altered the rules/criteria to fit special needs. You know the examples. There is no sense in arguing if that is a good or bad thing. The fact is: it has been done. "O'Neil's recognition needs to come by way of a less orthodox means than traditional induction" -- I agree. And that point could have come with the last committee. Obviously seven members agreed with me. Do we know if they thought "player" or "builder" or "pioneer?" I still have to say category doesn't matter to me. Don't worry about the list. It could have been my 5th grade class. I won't be caught up by refuting or praising it. And though I agree with your point about a Buck O'Neil award, it is another discussion. I still feel we're on opposite sides of some fence. Some question or judgment about the role of the HoF where we don't agree. I doubt this is the forum to find that point. However, let me know if you come down to watch the Yanks in spring training. The first beer is on me. We can talk baseball the whole game. But let's not bring up the Expos.
posted by ?! at 06:51 PM on October 10
Re: "easy:" Thanks for clearing that up. As for the special election: The committee wasn't charged with the exact same criteria as the regular yearly vote or the Veteran's Committee vote. For example: "The final ballots represent players, managers, executives and builders who are top-tier candidates and worthy of review for consideration for election to the Hall of Fame. " -- Fay Vincent Do I think O'Neil should be in as a ballplayer? I didn't see him play, but he didn't think so: "The truth is, I don't belong; I was a very good ballplayer, but very good ballplayers don't belong in the Hall of Fame. Great ballplayers do." So, no, not as a player. But the special ballot didn't have separate Player and Composite Ballots -- as the Veteran's Committee uses. The special committee used "Negro League" and "Pre-Negro League" ballots. Here was O'Neil's bio from the Negro League ballot: "First baseman and later the manager of the Kansas City Monarchs….Appeared in four East-West All-Star games as a player and as manager, he sent more players to Major League Baseball then any other manager in black baseball history, including Ernie Banks, Elston Howard and Pancho Herrera, among others…An outstanding motivator, managed the Monarchs to four league championships in 1948, 1950, 1951 and 1953…In 1962 became the first African American coach in the major leagues and has effectively championed the cause of the Negro leagues since their demise in the late 1950s." The rules were different for this special election, so I don't think a category is as important as it is with the Veteran Committee elections. (I don't care much for the "categories," but that's a subject for another day.) Call him a "Builder" if you must. Obviously, he was to be considered for more than his play on the field. Based on such my "vote" would have taken in his total life in baseball. He thought about how he might be elected someday: "Oh, I'd like to think I might get in the Hall one day, but maybe as a manager or for other contributions that I made to baseball." I agree with that line of reasoning. Is that a better explanation of my thoughts?
posted by ?! at 06:41 PM on October 09
BullpenPro: When the HoF decision was announced we fell on different sides of the decision. I doubt our positions will change, but mine wasn't merely "very easy to say." I gave much thought then, and again when Mr. O'Neil passed. No, we didn't see O'Neil or most of the candidates play. But then again the full committee didn't have that honor either. How did they base their votes? Fay Vincent, non-voting chair, said, "Each person evaluated the candidacy as he or she saw fit. There's no way I or anybody can answer that except to say that we consistently applied what we thought was a very high and rigorous standard. For some people, the absence of statistical data, because of early years, would have been a disability. Other people might not have focused as much on that." I believe that four members of the committee made a mistake by not voting for O'Neil. His stats weren't the only criteria for which he should have been considered. Of the 17 who were voted in, only seven played in the Negro Leagues. Five played before that time, and the rest were executives -- who obviously weren't inducted based on their stats. Obviously this vote wasn't entirely statistically based. "And that seemed to be okay with Buck." -- As you say, you weren't a close friend of the man. You can base that opinion on his published words and interviews. My opinion is Mr. O'Neil had the grace to not question the decision and focus on those who were inducted. Good for him. But the quote I posted earlier certainly showed a man who was excited at the prospect his work for baseball would be honored. I did see Mr. O'Neil's passing as a shame. I know death happens to everyone, but it's always a shame when someone who seems to so enjoy life passes from it.
posted by ?! at 04:02 PM on October 08
ESPN: "What would it mean to you, personally, to get in the Hall of Fame?" Buck O'Neil: "It's the top of the line. That's as high as you can go. For me, that would be high as I could go..." The committee blew it.
posted by ?! at 11:20 PM on October 06
Good find. It reminds me of when Bill Veeck's "Grandstand Managers" did this for a game 55 years ago and the Browns won.
posted by ?! at 02:49 PM on September 02
"Don't ask yes-or-no questions, keep questions short and avoid charged words, which can distract people."
posted by ?! at 09:42 PM on August 15
Scarlett Johansson is teh hotness. Wow. You're right. I feel better already. ctal1999: "Of course, considering the women they tend to get, maybe they're just smarter than the average guy." I think it is simply pretty women are selecting similar men.
"But these effects were very weak compared to the likelihood of women who score themselves highly in physical appearance choosing males with the same," said Dr. Buston, "and for both men and women with lots of resources to choose mates with resources."-- 2003 Study reported in NY Times
posted by ?! at 04:17 PM on August 12
The SouthEast regional LL championship game is on now. Florida has just intentionally walked a Georgia player for the third straight time. When I was a kid those league championship games were important. We wanted to win. If you wanted to just play and have fun you grabbed a glove, a bat, a ball, and some electrical tape and headed over to the empty lot. What parents forget is that most leagues are places to learn competiton. Fun is forgotten when parents are "cheering," "coaching," and speaking to the press.
posted by ?! at 09:03 PM on August 11
I'm far too pretty to get into this one, but how could they not given Ali a permanent place on the list? "I'm pretty, I'm pretty, I'm a baaaad man" Yerfatma, after the Turing did you check the Binet-Simon scale?
posted by ?! at 06:02 PM on August 10
BullpenPro: I'd love to tell you that was a bad night for the Sox guys, but they are the worst kind of "homers." "Use of Ask Yahoo! is entirely at your own risk and is not a substitute for conducting your own research." -- Truer words were never written in small type. I can see why the writer didn't sign his or her work. That was sad. One of the things I love about a live game is sitting near someone who loves (and understands) the game while they explain it to his/her child. The kids are always amazed how much goes on between pitches. Does anyone remember the televised MLB game that was simply shown with the sounds of the game and no announcers? I'd love to see that every Saturday.
posted by ?! at 02:57 PM on August 10
Because they throw all out more often than pitchers of the old days? I miss Wilbur Wood.
posted by ?! at 02:57 PM on August 09
IF MLB wins I don't see it affecting the true fans anyway. They'll continue to have fantasy leagues...except MLB will get a chunk of change from each one. Now, if MLB is dumb enough to forbid free fantasy leagues from licensed companies or stop fan sites from discussing the games and players...that'll kill the sport. That moment of hyperbole brought to you by...
posted by ?! at 08:07 AM on August 08
Can anyone point me to a site that explains how a boost in testosterone helped his performance that particular day? Did he have a high testosterone count on any other day or did they just test the sample from the big comeback day?
posted by ?! at 10:01 AM on August 05
"And, by the way, so does Buck O'Neil." Further proof that a man is never the best judge of his own significance.
posted by ?! at 08:30 AM on August 04
1) It's typing after a day at Disney!! 2) No, I meant Clint Cominsky Field in Altoona. 3) Many fans don't realize the field wasn't named after the owner of the White Sox, but actually named after the tavern that previously occupied the land. 4) Hell, that's enough. I'm beat. And on to the real comment: 11) Jeffrey Loria, MLB and the theft of the Expos.
posted by ?! at 10:37 PM on August 02
grum@work: That was Saturday night at old Cominsky!
posted by ?! at 10:25 PM on August 02
No, the only anger in the strip is by the black player who has pulled a gun and is holding it "movie gangsta" style. The white player is holding him back. Bill Hinds, the artist for the strip, could have drawn the player as white. I doubt the writer included race in his script. Why didn't Hinds draw a white player? Most likely because he automatically assumed "gang" equals "black." Or he assumed his audience would. Or it was deliberate. It is easy for some not to be offended when it isn't their goat being yanked.
posted by ?! at 09:11 AM on August 01
If you want to know more about the ABA, then read Loose Balls by Terry Pluto.
posted by ?! at 08:51 AM on August 01
More than players are in the Hall and O'Neil could have been elected for his off-the-field work. If they keep players out because of their off-the-field endeavors then they should put people in because of such endeavors.
posted by ?! at 08:21 PM on July 31
Quick ABA history: When the merger happened John Y. Brown was the owner of the Kentucky Colonels and he had other chicken to fry. KFC joke He took his money...bought the Buffalo Braves...traded the Braves with the owner of the Celtics...so that guy could move a team to California (and no one would let him move the Celtics)...Brown later sold the Celtics for a tidy profit. He seemed to do well by not taking the Colonels to the NBA....just not as well as the Spirit owners. Considering that their team had zero chance of joining the NBA they did spectacularly well.
posted by ?! at 08:15 PM on July 31
I have the Kentucky Colonels stuff and a ton of Montréal Expos gear. I had New Orleans Jazz and Spirit of St. Louis shirts somewhere, but I think they disappeared in the mid 80s.
posted by ?! at 07:33 PM on July 31
Oh, I don't want to go through that again!
posted by ?! at 07:26 PM on July 31
kyrilmitch, et.al : Would the panel have been more funny, less funny, or the same if the cartoonist has not used a racial stereotype?
posted by ?! at 03:14 PM on July 31
Forget patience. O'Neil might be humble enough to not ask "Why?" But I don't see any good reason why he was not inducted. He didn't have to go in as a player. Kenesaw Landis made it in as a "Pioneer" as much as an ex-commisioner. O'Neil has accomplished more than enough for the Hall of Fame to add him to its ranks. Have any committee members had the decency to explain the reasoning not to include O'Neil?
posted by ?! at 03:10 PM on July 31
goddam: Hey, I'm descended from that same line. :) jerseygirl: I agree and promise to immediately fold any future thread where someone farts... unless ESPN7 carries the World Farting Tour.
posted by ?! at 02:56 PM on July 31
jerseygirl: While I appreciate the sentiment, I'm afraid you're mistaken. As long as the admins do not delete such threads or comments they are allowing such discussions to flourish. Over the years there have been cries of "stop feeding the trolls" and it never works. The only way to limit discussion is from the admin level. The advantage of a board of this design is that only an individual thread goes down the tube. And, once it does, disinterested parties can skip it. As one who also commented on this thread I am sure you had your reasons for responding. Why did I answer such comments with links to information? I truly believe "silence is the voice of complicity" and reason can stand in the howling wind of superstition. I believe to trust a poster's arguments you must respect their reasoning -- irrespective of the subject. Unfortunately, my last comment was indicative of my exacerbation at the slippery reasoning in this debate. I did feel I kept it as sportsfilter related as possible as "tossing off" is a perfectly normal baseball expression. :) But, I am finished with this thread. Anyone who truly wants to learn more about the neurological basis of gender identity and sexuality can write me and I'll point them to research. Otherwise you can find me elsewhere on Sportsfilter. We must live in the same neighborhood. The men in the dark car outside my house look like Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones.
posted by ?! at 11:31 AM on July 31
mkredliner: "Perhaps, one day Science will figure out why some say tomaytoe, and some say tomahtoe as well." Ok, now you're just tossing off. Believe research or not, but please just stop spouting nonsense. If your sports opinions are as ill researched as your knowledge of biology, neuroscience, and linguistics then I suggest you limit yourself to the darts forum. Good luck to you, sir, and I hope you don't teach in any school system.
posted by ?! at 08:16 PM on July 30
College sports players have always given up certain personal rights in order to play on the team. This is no different than a coach hearing rumors of a bad frat party and telling the players they can't go to that house anymore. MySpace is not a private journal. It is a public declaration not much different from standing in the campus courtyard with a sign that says: "Doodz, I'm so f^%$! Woooo!"
posted by ?! at 10:43 AM on July 30
mjkredliner: So, yes, it was the 2000 pamphlet and no, I did not confuse psychiatrists and psychologists. A psychiatric M.D. does not a neuroscientist make. Because it is my job: Dr. Simon LeVay
posted by ?! at 11:12 PM on July 29
mjkredliner: Please cite your source. Was it the 2000 pamphlet? Are you referring to the same APA that listed homosexuality in the DSM until 1973? Why quote psychiatrists about biological information? Would you go to a plumber for your electrical problems?
posted by ?! at 07:22 PM on July 29
While it is correct that they intend to have people leave and come back -- this isn't a simple matter of "separate groups using the same facility." "Fans must have a Braves game ticket and concert ticket in order to attend the “Faith Days” performances after the games." -- Third Coast Sports The concert idea is for the Braves is to attract customers. In the case of the three "Faith Days" they hope to have an increase in the attendance of god-fearing folk.
posted by ?! at 03:12 PM on July 27
It's all Kate Smith's fault. I've always feel public displays of one's religion were a bit much. It's always twisted though. Players point to the sky after a home run, but never a strike-out. By allowing hordes of these cults in the games I fear for the safety of fans. "Iintentional ministry" means the stands will have people proselytizing. Who knows how many will be enticed to join the cult that day?
posted by ?! at 07:13 AM on July 27
firstname.lastname@example.org: "We stood downwind from the smoke ya dope" That's what I figured.
posted by ?! at 04:38 PM on July 26
OK, OK, You got me. The offer was written like a car commercial. You'll notice that at no point did I say "my" liver. My wife is visiting her mother and left two livers in the fridge. I figure I have three days to get rid of them. The last time I hugged a co-worker? When an employee in the same building went on a killing spree.
posted by ?! at 04:33 PM on July 26
Just "hugged" someone? Did he think he was back in first grade? I will donate a liver to any ESPN PA who get's Joe Morgan to hug her. Both livers if the PA is a guy.
posted by ?! at 11:09 AM on July 26
irish: Cancer? You mean the cancer you probablly caused your friends when you subjected them to burning chemically altered products? If you believe taking an illegal drug keeps you out of the HOF then every HOF player who took greenies should be out. And don't forget doctors were known to give the occasional "B12" shot. McGwire's only mistake before Congress was in not saying, "You, sir, can stick my bat up your ass." That committee was looking to make headlines. Period. Anything that happened there shouldn't impact the HOF vote.
posted by ?! at 09:53 PM on July 23
If you want more comments...justgary posted about Between the Numbers back in April. What I liked best about The Numbers Game was that it was less about the math and more about the people who championed each stat. The current box score is a subset of what it used to be. For awhile some papers would compete by having an exclusive stat category. The first major baseball stat guy worked hard behind the scenes to promote the stats he liked and discourage others from believing in stats he hated. Anyway, don't expect a stats course if you read the book. It's a well written history of the people that shaped baseball statistics. One thing I took from the book is that pretty much every record in baseball is expected statistically -- except for Dimaggio's hit streak. That was an anomaly.
posted by ?! at 06:32 AM on July 19
volfire: Red Barber has passed away, but ESPN's Chris "Ethel" Berman is still very much alive.
posted by ?! at 04:27 PM on July 08
Comments telling us how much you dislike another post or its subject=BOOOOORING. Come on people, it's not like Sportsfilter is a bucket filled by those Internet Tubes. We can handle many posts. You aren't forced to read or comment in the posts you don't like. Skip them. Show your displeasure in the subject by letting it die on the vine. And if 10 or 20 people actually do like the post and want to comment you can be proud you didn't try to derail the thread. As for the All-Star game...I'm actually suprised the Punch A.J. campaign worked. I thought for sure the Cubs fans were voting for Liriano.
posted by ?! at 11:52 PM on July 07
Youppi dated Halle Berry. Life doesn't sound so bad. Of course, he was also the first mascot tossed from the game.
posted by ?! at 03:58 PM on July 07
And they think Metafilter is a boyzone. Very appropriate nick SummersEve. I have got to stop following unexplained links.
posted by ?! at 08:31 AM on July 06
beermn: I hear a lot about the ideals and I see precious little of the practice. Any other ex-Scouts here? Children of Marines? I've burned. I'll burn again. lil brown bat and The Black Hand. You've nailed this thread over and over again. Thanks. Now, let's get back to sports... What if they had got the flag burning and Monday injured his hand? Maybe he would have dropped out of baseball and wouldn't have caused Blue Monday? And you know what that would have meant....? The Expos win the Series! The Expos win the Series!!!! I can dream. I'm a Dreamer. And not the only one.
posted by ?! at 07:50 PM on July 05
I don't understand why one of them didn't serve a ball or two into that guys' ass. I mean, we're all upset when someone interrupts a sporting event for a frivolous reason. Aren't we?
posted by ?! at 07:13 PM on July 05
Why I Love America linked by ?! In case you missed it last time: a very good article about the incident. Regarding sports and politics: As I said last time: "politics do not belong at sporting events. For example, playing of any national anthem or song popularized by Kate Smith. If you disagree and insist on politicizing the sport, how can you not expect political protests?"
posted by ?! at 10:58 PM on July 04
I'll go against the grain here and say I could care less about the stats. This isn't a game about the best individual NL players versus the best AL individual players. As was mentioned by jerseygirl, this is a popularity contest. I'm always amazed the All-Star game doesn't look like the Mets vs. the Yankees. Why not just announce the leader in (insert your favorite ranking system) at each position as the starter. Let the fans pick the rest of the team. When they converge...great. If not, the fan favorites come in as third inning replacements.
posted by ?! at 11:56 AM on July 03
Very nice. Thanks for pointing that out. For me, the key will be if they get "ground rule double" correct. The image rich website is a pain though. "The authors of the Baseball Field Guide are accomplished information designers." Say what?
posted by ?! at 10:38 PM on June 29
Whoa, Nelly. I realize we're all just that little bit more enlightened, hip, and cynical than our fellow humans, but let's take a real look at that story... "He is confined to a wheelchair, and constrained by the physical fallout from back-to-back heart attacks." Confined: "To restrict in movement" -- Now, that's a fact. I had to ride one for a good long while and they restrict your movement. Note, it doesn't say "never moves about." The photo proves he gets out of the house, so the sentence obviously doesn't mean LaChappa's trauma has forced him to a 3x3 cell. Brave? Brave? Where the hell did you get "brave?" You read that one into the story yourself. Cheerful was mentioned. That was in a quote. Cheerful I'll give you, but not "brave." The description that could be considered the least 'enlightened" is: "He actually participates in everything his family does. He attends church, goes to dinner, goes to the movies." Ouch. Everyone knows that those who suffer serious trauma still do everything else the family does! My god, what an ass! Wait, that wasn't the writer. It's a quote from LaChappa's brother. It looks like he has an agenda. He's going to remind all those who haven't experienced such trauma that body trauma does not automatically equal personality trauma: "He's still the same person that he was before." Why did the brother say that? Of course, Henri, I'm sure you have no prejudices at all. Each and every person you meet is one of God's snowflakes. Each to be judged purely on his or her actions. But the brother, and the writer of the story, knows the paper's entire audience isn't as enlightened. Some may need stories like this to help them see that not everyone is in life for the bottom-line. That there are people left who care, simply because they care. People who keep promises, even when it's no longer convenient to do so. Some may even need to be reminded that while serious life-threatening trauma always, always, changes your life that people react to those changes in different ways.
posted by ?! at 09:37 AM on June 29
I remember all the "let's use"/"don't dare use" the r,w,&b ball discussion when the ABA folded (as the four teams joined the NBA.) Most of it centered on the differnt "feel" of the ABA ball. But, if I remember correctly, didn't someone with the ABA keep the copyright to the red, white, and blue ball?
posted by ?! at 06:15 PM on June 28
I wonder if he exhibited any signs of long term use or did he fall off the wagon the night before? The Black Hand, actually meth is metabolized much slower than cocaine. (facts, symptoms) "Peak blood methamphetamine concentrations occur shortly after injection, a few minutes after smoking, and around 3 hours after oral dosing. Peak plasma amphetamine concentrations occur around 10 hours after methamphetamine use" Rapidly absorbed when taken orally, the effects of the drug peak within 2 to 3 hours and are measurably effective in the body for up to 8 hours.
posted by ?! at 06:08 PM on June 28
BullPenPro: Yes, he did, but started at C the day before. For Monday's game they moved 1B to 3B, 3B to DH, and C to 1B for that last game. They also brought Steed in as a defensive replacement in the 4th or 5th. The team responded with all the changes by having a four error night. Not that they played pristine ball on Sunday -- though they weren't charged with any errors that night. The quick interview after the game with the Tar Heels coach had a telling moment. One of his first comments was that if the batter hadn't swung on the attempt to steal home the game could have turned. (I'm paraphasing.) I got the impression the batter missed a sign or made an unfortunate attempt to smack the ball at the wrong time. But, as you say, they have next year to come back.
posted by ?! at 09:02 PM on June 27
BullPenPro: I don't know if your highlights explained this but Steed was throwing to a right-handed 5-9 freshman catcher who was put in at 1B. From the play you can see the guy is right on the base and didn't give much of a stretch. Steed led the runner with a throw to the outfield side of the base. I'm not saying Steed didn't making a bit of an error, but the 6-4 left-handed 1B (who is used to the position) probably would have snagged that throw. North Carolina simply made too many errors at the wrong time.
posted by ?! at 02:35 PM on June 27
Racing isn't a sport! It's a bunch of guys (and a few women) driving at breakneck speeds while bumping each other -- all in a vain attempt to be "first." I see that everyday on the way to work. Just kidding cb900, I'm a kidder. I didn't think worm charming was a sport either, but it is a competition. It does seem to take a certain amount of skill, patience, planning, judging, and luck. People actually watch it and cheer on their favorites Sounds not much different than football. Again kidding. Put down those pitchforks.
posted by ?! at 02:11 PM on June 27
Well, they can bounce back from a single loss. Watching the two games I'd have to say it was mainly Oregon State quickly capitalizing on some really costly North Carolina fielding errors. The Beavers didn't take that championship in a convincing manner. Not that I'm downplaying Oregon's victory, but I wonder what happened to the gloves and common baseball sense of the Tar Heels?
posted by ?! at 08:59 AM on June 27
2005: Miss C Gaukroger & Mr M Gaukroger 214 2005 Mssrs A Thorley & J Thorley 4.5gms "This is still short of the heaviest ever, 6.6 grams, charmed by Willaston man James Overstall in 1987." Even in 1987 there was the taint of steroids.
posted by ?! at 08:50 AM on June 27
chemwizBsquared: Good point about Angelos, but I hope you realize that "recently moved from a city that obviously didn't want them" is simply not true.
posted by ?! at 09:21 PM on June 26
"Stick someone in a Yankees anything and ya know where they are going." Back home after the ALDS? Wow, reincarnation!
posted by ?! at 04:15 PM on June 26
I have a plan in place where my ashes will be dropped at various homeplates. I just hope they do a better job than the guy did with his mother's ashes at the Eagle's game. Paying for a casket that will be quickly buried doesn't make sense. A urn I can understand. Your ashes have to match the decor of the den. But what if your wife's next husband is a fan of your rival? Just hope he doesn't smoke.
posted by ?! at 10:44 AM on June 26
Good column. It made me almost feel for DC. No, no. I still hope the team fails miserably and ends up moved to Topeka. But you made a good point about the media.
posted by ?! at 11:32 PM on June 22
Copyright © 2013 SportsFilterAll posts and comments are © their original authors.