I recently decided I was done here, deciding that this site had outlived it's usefulness. In fact I sent an email to a former regular praising him for his exit, stating that mine wold be more like sneaking out the back door. But then I read a couple threads similar to this one, and I just got irritated. When did sportsfilter become the "Extra" of sports news? If it's sports news and it bleeds it'll be tops on sportsfilter. One final post, I supppose, before I sneak out said back door. Andy Reid is dealing with two of his children who are addicts. If anyone has dealt with that, let them step forward. Otherwise shut the fuck up. I quit a tobacco addiction and it was brutal. I can only imagine what this must be like. Especially when you have your own brother enabling you ... or when you have to deal with losing both your sons, depending on what side of the fence your on. I'll just hope I never have to deal with what Reid is dealing with. And I guess I'll just envy those of you who have all the answers. I am from the Philadelphia area and, he is the coach of the hometown team. But you have to guess how I feel about him, and there's a 50-50 chance you're wrong. Addiction is a nasty beast. If you're so sure you can cure it, patent your idea. You'll be a billionaire. As for this site, take it back or you risk losing it. Yes, I'm talking to you. And you know who "you" are.
posted by SummersEve at 02:32 AM on November 04
I'm sure you thought that McAmmond deserves some of the blame for the Downie hit, and that Kesler shouldn't have put his face in the way of Boulerice's stick. After all, if they had learned their lessons properly, McAmmond would have known to, uh, never go behind the net and Kesler would have known to, um, f*ck, I don't know what he could have done to avoid getting the crosscheck in the face. I think everyone has made it perfectly clear that those hits were shit. Yet you continue to group them all together. I suppose it's just surprising coming from someone like you. Kind of like: I don't know. You're supposedly a Flyers fan. Why don't you ask these guys some time. But in the exact same post you say: Domi hasn't played for the Leafs since 2005/06 season, so you might want to catch up with the times. So if someone should get with the times because a player is 1 season removed from a team, what does that say to someone who brings up a team from two generations ago? Your obviously entitled to your opinion, and I will always respect it. I'm just surprised by some of your comments in this thread.
posted by SummersEve at 09:18 AM on November 01
The chicks comments on the Flyers' logo are pretty funny actually... I don't even know what that symbol is. It's not flying, it's not a P; it's a meaningless circle. It's a circle with a mullet. Fitting. Very fitting.
posted by SummersEve at 02:44 PM on October 30
I've always argued in favor of the hitter. But I guess whatever I say will still be taken as a statement from a fan. I suppose that's fair. When people were defending Belichick, I felt the same way about them. (No, I did not just compare the crimes, just our reactions, so don't even go down that road.) I will say more often than not, I've argued in favor of the hitter. I don't want to sound like the head of the Randy Jones defense team, but I also hate seeing a player -- any player -- getting fingered as the posterboy for a play that happens regularly because, in his case, a player was injured. Checks from behind are bad, no argument. Jones should not have done what he did, again no argument. He should have been suspended for two games. The league should examine hits from behind because they do happen a lot. That doesn't mean I think they're okay. I just don't think you can string a guy up because of the outcome. But we are talking about a league that bases the length of a particular penalty on blood or no blood, so I suppose reactionary is part of the M.O. Here's what I think happened. As has been earlier stated, no one was in Jones' head. For all I know Bergeron could have molested his dog. this is just an attempt at a recreation. (CSI SpoFi) If you watch Bergeron as he comes across the blueline, he looks at the defender to his left. As he goes into the corner, he's expecting that defender to follow the play and likely deliver the hit. He did not expect Jones, who is coming from across the ice to send the hit. So Bergeron is bracing for a hit coming from his left, so he stops and sort of spins a bit to the right which would get him out of the line of the other defender. But Jones is coming for a hit from behind, by the letter of the law illegal, but still a routine play. He's not expecting Bergeron to stop. Bergeron's stop is quick, hence the snow from his skate. Jones is guilty of not adjusting, perhaps not paying attention as he had every intention of hitting Bergeron from behind. But he did not expect Bergeron to stop as he did. If you picture Bergeron up against the glass as Jones finishes his check, it isn't a brutal hit. But Bergeron stopped and Jones didn't The league needs to address this. The league needs to both make players aware that they can't hit from behind and they also need to be aware when their back is to the play. They need to be aware of what's going on at all times. Expecting a hit from behind is sort of like crossing the street in a crosswalk. If I'm walking and you're driving, it's you're fault if you hit me. But that doesn't mean I'm going to cross just assuming you'll stop and I have o plan accordingly. Likewise, players should be ready for a hit from behind near the boards, and coaches should teach them as such. Doesn't mean the hitter isn't at fault, just means everyone would be safer. The whole ounce-of-prevention thing. I've read before that some high school and college coaches actually teach their kids to turn their backs at the glass to protect the puck. That's a horrible idea. But I digress. the accusation that I only watch amateur hockey SDD, I didn't mean to imply you only watch amateur hockey. I know you do a lot with amateur hockey, and the rules interpretations are different in pro as compared to high school and college. That is why I said watch anything other than amateur hockey.
posted by SummersEve at 10:49 AM on October 30
Good debating skills. Way to play the body and not the puck. Well done. Savagery doesn't belong in the game, but if you're going to compare Randy Jones to Jesse Boulerice you obviously have no clue what you're talking about in this situation. I could say say a lot of things here, but I'll keep it above the belt. You prove my point -- and show your own true colors -- by going after me in such a shallow manner.
posted by SummersEve at 11:52 AM on October 29
Oh get real, sdd, watch something other than amateur hockey and you'll see this was an accident: A poorly timed collision in a sport that moves fast, and a skater who put himself in a vulnerable position. Seriously, you are not being honest with yourself if you don't think that this play doesn't happen regularly. Next time you watch a pro game, watch when a puck goes in the corner. Watch the guy play the puck and watch another guy hit him from behind. Whether or not you like it, or think it's right, it's part of the game. Watch how the first player puts himself up against the glass so he absorbs the hit. It's the first thing you're taught when you play check-hockey: Don't stop and bend over two feet from the glass. I'm repeating myself, and just getting frustrated by people who won't take off their team-colored glasses. If Bergeron goes all the way to the glass it is a routine play. Jones may have been over-eager, but he wasn't trying to be dirty. No one is more apologetic than he is. He isn't a dirty player, he wasn't trying to be dirty, he was just trying make a routine play -- whether it's right or not it happens every period of every game -- where a defender stands an opposing player up against the glass. If you can't admit that doesn't happen regularly, you are not being honest with yourself and are just piling on. Hockey is so fast-paced you say you play so you have an idea just how incredibly fast things develop. So you really think Stevens said to Jones on the bench, "Hey, when Bergeron gets near the boards, bend him over and shove him head first into the boards."? And I think Julien might be a bit biased. Just a guess. Colin Campbell will suspend Jones and he will go overboard with the suspension, because he's a puppet scared to death of the Globe and Mail and TSN. Two games would be the correct call. Anything over 5 games is ridiculous. I can't say I would be against fining the team, again, because of what Boulerice did. As previously stated, I don't want to see him back in the NHL. They put him on the ice and have to live with the consequences. I do, however, hate to see Jones taking the bulk of the blame.
posted by SummersEve at 11:27 AM on October 29
I just read that Darrien Hatcher said this type of play happens 15 times a game. I want to make it clear that I made that statement before he did. In fact, maybe he reads sportsfilter and stole it from me. ...the Flyers have let go or reassigned... In all fairness, they've only "reassigned" them to the AHL so they don't have to pay them. They've been bringing both of them up for scheduled NHL games so they can serve their suspensions then sending them back down. I'll give Downie one more chance to get his head on straight because the kid can play if he decides he doesn't want to be an idiot. But Boulerice should be gone. He's going to get Danny Briere or Simon Gagne killed for the crap he pulls. Plus, because of Boulerice, Randy Jones has become the whipping-boy for all that is wrong with the NHL.
posted by SummersEve at 10:12 AM on October 29
Yes, Randy Jones is a buffoonery-filled goon. He's just hidden it his whole career but decided now was the time to show it. You're all right. And no one ever gets hit from behind on a dump-in. And if they did, SDD's league would hold a hearing and they'd never be allowed to play in his adult league again. And they'd be devastated, I'm sure.
posted by SummersEve at 08:38 PM on October 28
Thuggery? Seriously? Get over it. Hoepfully Bergeron is okay. Jones should be suspended, but let's get real. This play happens at least 15 times a game. It's just unfortunate that Bergeron stopped short of the glass and Jones continued with his check. Yes, it's wrong but it happens all the time. Bergeron gets against the glass and play continues. But a player on your team would never do such a thing. Bullshit, watch any time a puck gets dumped. As for Boulerice and Downie, there's no place for that crap and they deserve to be cut.
posted by SummersEve at 01:49 PM on October 28
posted by SummersEve at 02:04 PM on October 27
Wait, the Onion is satire? So Blockbuster didn't really cancel their rental fees? And all those people didn't die when Delta cancelled a flight in mid-air?
posted by SummersEve at 02:08 PM on October 25
So the Marlies would need a majority of the other teams voting "Yes, we want to play against John Tavares." Good luck with that. Not to mention I can't imagine anyone looking out for this kid could possibly think this is a good idea.
posted by SummersEve at 02:00 PM on October 25
[H]e mailed a letter to Commissioner Selig, in which he outlined a proposal to alter the format of the ... World Series. Why not make it nine games, instead of seven ... “It’s a fact that our game needs a forum that’s akin to the Super Bowl ... People don’t go to the Super Bowl for the game. Most Super Bowl games are not competitive, or good games. They go there for the event. They go there for the three-day weekend.” He described a vision of “corporate hospitality,” including a “gala, like the Oscars,” during which the M.V.P. and Cy Young awards, among others, would be announced, with all the finalists present and on view, and presumably walking the red carpet in sponsored menswear. Who could argue against such a change? It would mean more money for the owners, more “marketable content” for the media to broadcast, more attention for the stars—more everything. Yup, more everything for everyone. Except the baseball fan. You know, the guy that really gives a damn. But with the nine-day event you can squeeze a couple extra billion into the pot, you know, from the advertisers and the other people who are there because their publicist told them to go (and to wear their pink hat with the team logo). I say fuck that. I say screw the "MLB, not Boras, is to blame" bullshit. While I appreciate the point you're making, Holden, I also say that's just too easy a defense. I mean Halliburton's only dancing on the floor we built them. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold their feet to the fire just as much as the folks writing the rules. But I suppose I'm just too idealistic.
posted by SummersEve at 12:19 AM on October 25
Does this mean they don't do Irish jigs in their underwear? Seriously, it seems to me that the headline writer at the NYT didn't bother to read the story. They're just a group of decent guys who get along and don't rent whores. O'Dowd points out it has little to do with religion. The main reference to religion pointed out they're not much different than other clubs and was brought up mainly to discount a USA Today story that made them sound like uber-Christians.
posted by SummersEve at 12:24 PM on October 23
I personally don't think that the "sanctity of the record book" is sufficient justification for drawing blood. Cut them with a rusty knife and make them fill a bucket. That'll teach 'em.
posted by SummersEve at 01:08 PM on October 22
His hand will become possessed like "Evil Dead 2" and he'll have to cut it off. But he'll attach a jai-alai like basket to the stump and then he'll throw for 54 touchdowns. #50 will be caught by Wes Welker 12/16 against the Jets. (Yes, I did copy that game and date from everyone else. Also, if people are thinking of copying off me, I'm not so sure about the possessed-hand part so be warned. I am pretty comfy with the 54 pick.) Stallworth catches #54.
posted by SummersEve at 01:01 PM on October 22
I think this pretty much sums up Torre and all he's done: Torre's was the longest uninterrupted term for a Yankees manager since Casey Stengel held the job from 12 years from 1949-60. I haven't followed this very closely but (assuming Torre was even considering coming back) it seems to me it may be the one-year deal that would be the deal-breaker rather than the money.
posted by SummersEve at 09:45 PM on October 18
It's also super-tough for Walls. When you donate, they make you talk to someone about dealing with potential emotions in case the kidney is rejected or something happens to the recipient.
posted by SummersEve at 04:57 PM on October 18
Sad for Philadelphia since the Wings could actually win championships (unlike the four major teams in town).
posted by SummersEve at 04:49 PM on October 18
Dammit, it's hard to find good tight ends There's a joke there somewhere...
posted by SummersEve at 12:33 PM on October 15
And I hear they're working on a new movie... "Bend it like Benedict".
posted by SummersEve at 11:53 AM on October 15
The fight went the distance.
posted by SummersEve at 01:56 AM on October 14
Tune in next week for Shakespearean Sonnets, couplets and all.
posted by SummersEve at 12:51 PM on October 13
Some commentators and play-by-play voices are employed by the team, some are employed by the radio station or TV station for whom they work. Not to beat a dead horse, but you'd be hard pressed to find a broadcast team that isn't employed by the team these days. Years ago, the broadcasters may have worked for the local stations, but not anymore. Teams know that that's the best way to brand and present their team so they're going to make sure they control it. Here's Waldman's bio on Yankees.com. I'm with justgary on this one, though I do find it amusing to hear her sobs in the background. However, there is a part of me that cringes, thinking "way to perpetuate the stereotype."
posted by SummersEve at 09:09 AM on October 11
This is the problem with journalists/commentators getting too close to those they cover. Allowing personal feelings into what should otherwise be objective reporting shows a lack of professionalism that results in much bigger problems than crying in a post-game report. I don't know this woman so I can't defend her, but commentators and play-by-play voices are employed by the team. They fly on the team planes, stay in the team hotels, and often ride on the team buses. They're supposed to allow their personal feelings to a point. It's the reporters on TV (wearing a team's jersey waving a rally towel) that are supposed to be impartial that piss me off.
posted by SummersEve at 10:58 AM on October 10
It's just sneaky and weaselly... Totally agree. And it really wouldn't be too hard to change the rule while still allowing teams to call a timeout if they legitimately need one. Just say on a field goal attempt in the final minute of a half, only a player on the field can call a timeout. You could even designate which player that has to be. At least then other players on the field would likely see it. I like the idea of no timeouts on a field goal if the clock's already stopped. It's more drastic and could actually punish a defensive team, but it would be a lot better for viewers.
posted by SummersEve at 02:06 PM on October 09
Do you know the NUFF-in man?
posted by SummersEve at 11:30 AM on October 08
In his defense, he did say nuff.
posted by SummersEve at 11:09 AM on October 07
Hypothetical situation: You drop down the Caps and and bring up the Bears. Nice, you just dropped a franchise and brought up it's minor league affiliate. Seriously, who could possibly think the Bears be a better option than the Caps? Or the Phantoms than the Flyers? Or the Icehogs over the Blackhawks? They're the feeder team so if the NHL team doesn't have the talent what makes anyone think the minor league team (typically run by the big-league team) would or could? Most, if not all, top-level minor league teams (oxymoron?) are affiliated with an NHL team so if the talent were ready or able to compete, said talent would already be in the NHL.
posted by SummersEve at 01:03 AM on October 07
Here's what I was thinking when I read this -- not knowing much of anything about European sport -- using the NHL as an example. Play the regular season, but knock it down from 82 games to say 60 (or any necessary number to make things jive). Instead of an all-star break have a round-robin inter-divisional tournament mid-season. The winner gets a trophy and all kinds of accolades, parades and chocolates. The games would be regional so people would probably get pretty interested in the inherent rivalries. Plus, if your team's in the toilet at least there's something to cheer for. After the tournament, finish the regular season, but only take the top teams, or top two teams in each conference. Obviously you would need to balance the schedule, but you could since the divisional thing would be so necessary since you have that tournament. You have the playoff revenue built into the middle of the season, you can make it a similar number of games as there are now, and every team could get even more games of relevance.
posted by SummersEve at 02:18 PM on October 06
Post. Of. The. Week! :) That was good, but this one is tough to beat.
posted by SummersEve at 01:19 PM on October 06
I have some doubts about you really doing either task on a 80 degree hill. They wore suction cups on their feet. You ever carry someone while wearing suction cups on your feet? Didn't think so.
posted by SummersEve at 01:16 PM on October 06
I went into that column thinking it was going to be a bunch of poo. But I came out totally agreeing with you. (except I like "that horrible contraption". Assuming we're talking about the one on the right in the picture you linked to.) Never thought of any of this, I've only really followed North American sports -- an Amish sports fan, I suppose. But this would be wonderful. If I were charge I'd work to implement these changes.
posted by SummersEve at 10:39 AM on October 05
Stephen A. : Mariotti :: K-Fed : Spears
posted by SummersEve at 12:16 PM on October 04
No, scratch that. Mariotti makes Stephen A. Smith look like, if not a genius, at least a functioning and insightful sports columnist. Woah, slow down. That's just crazy talk there. No one could pull off that magic.
posted by SummersEve at 10:26 AM on October 04
Not even going to try the stats v. reality thing with you guys because I'll lose. And I don't want to sound like the president of the Jimmy Rollins fan club. But I will stand by what I said. If you watched the games, you wouldn't think my statement is as odd as it sounds. This column kind of sucks -- especially the if the Rollins doesn't win part at the top -- but these quotes sum up how other players talk about him: When the infielders gathered on the mound, Rollins used to either say nothing or keep it light. These days, Phillies pitchers say, Rollins is more businesslike. "He gives you a scouting report, and I don't think he's been wrong yet," Kyle Lohse said. He's not above a stern lecture or two when it's needed. One pitcher who Rollins felt wasn't challenging hitters enough turned around to find the shortstop glaring at him, and Rollins said: Are you trying to walk him? "Look, we're trying to win," Rollins said. "We're trying to help the team win. I know what the hitter is thinking, what he's expecting. If I don't speak up, I'm not doing all I can to help us win." Just an example. Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't like going it on stats alone.
posted by SummersEve at 11:55 AM on October 03
Back to the NL for a moment: I watched at least 140 Phillies games this year and I can assure you Rollins was by far the most dominant player. Utley was good, Howard was good (way too many K's), Rowand was extremely under-rated, and Burrell had a huge turn-around. But without Jimmy Rollins this is an average team that probably finishes third behind the Mets and Braves. Not that it should figure into the MVP debate, but Rollins is possibly the number one person responsible for the Phillies being good again. As a rookie, he came into a clubhouse with a toxic atmosphere and a "who cares?" attitude and started turning it around. Not only did he never lose his enthusiasm but he began lighting fires under his teammates. His numbers this year are impressive, and he has a great glove. He routinely gets to balls he has no rights getting. As for his offensive stats, the sub-.300 hurts, as does the sub-100 RBI total, but there are lot of "first-ever's" and "first-since's" when you hear people talk about him... SI.com: The switch-hitting leadoff man finished with a .296 batting average, 38 doubles, 20 triples, 30 homers, 41 steals, 94 RBIs and scored an NL-best 139 runs. He became the first player in major league history to have 30 doubles, 20 triples, 30 homers and 30 steals in one season - one of many accomplishments. No shortstop in the NL ever had more extra-bases hits (88) and only Alex Rodriguez had more (91) in 1996 with Seattle. And, while it seemed everyone around him was getting hurt, the durable Rollins played every game, becoming the first NL shortstop in 34 years to do so. I didn't get to see much of Holliday, but .340 with 36 homers and 137 RBI's is pretty amazing. Though I do see his home-away stats are drastically different. Rollins was very consistent home and away. I said above I'd vote for Holliday, today I'm leaning towards Rollins. I guess the case is there for both of them. Should be an intersting series.
posted by SummersEve at 10:21 AM on October 03
I never dreamed I'd ever be rooting for J.D. Drew.
posted by SummersEve at 01:43 PM on October 02
You're right, and I shouldn't have made my comment either, especially w/o backing it up or explaining it. Not the time nor place. Withdrawn. Let's talk MVP.
posted by SummersEve at 12:58 PM on October 02
I've decided I'm not doing any pools or making any picks for fears of angering the baseball gods. I must be very careful. They're watching me closely.
posted by SummersEve at 12:07 PM on October 02
If you're still rooting for a change in the financial structure of baseball -- like a salary cap -- you can pretty much forget it. And that's sad, b/c there are two teams that buy their way in each year. I guess the other six can just rotate through each year. As for MVP, Holliday is extremely deserving, but Jimmy Rollins is definitely in the running. He started all 162 games at shortstop, (only three NL players started every game this year), and he still only had only 10 errors all season. That's pretty impressive at shortstop. He also became the 4th player ever to get 20-20-20-20 thing and he carried the team when Howard and Utley were injured. I'd vote for Holliday, but if Rollins gets it, it's not like the "term has no meaning." As for the game last night, I like Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus' take. It's subscription, but you get the gist from the free part.
posted by SummersEve at 12:01 PM on October 02
San Diego by 5. Khalil Greene
posted by SummersEve at 09:44 AM on October 01
Dude, you just said GM three times in the same post. You're so in trouble. This graph is neat.
posted by SummersEve at 01:58 PM on September 28
I've been checking that BP page every morning the last few weeks. I'm just waiting for the day when their computer just spits out "42". Here are the scenarios from MLB, but that ESPN link explains them better. The MLB link does point out a bit of drama in the AL: The team with the best winning percentage in the league gets the option of starting its first-round series on Wednesday or Thursday. The teams that start Wednesday get an extra day off, thereby ensuring that each team's top two starters will be available twice.
posted by SummersEve at 03:02 PM on September 27
I apparently am something that Jesus sleeps in. Or slept in. Or at least was "away in".
posted by SummersEve at 12:15 PM on September 27
Pretty slick. Not funny. You twit. Also, how does one batten a hatch? And does HGH help you batten?
posted by SummersEve at 12:10 PM on September 27
Oh SNAP! Real name and everything! You better watch it there, tough guy. We know all about you and your bookwriting.
posted by SummersEve at 11:04 AM on September 27
What a shame. I blame the Habs fans. You really can't trust them, you know.
posted by SummersEve at 10:05 AM on September 27
If you wear these and stand in the same place too long, do you leave divots or melt through the ice? Brings new meaning to "Keep your feet moving."
posted by SummersEve at 08:54 PM on September 26
I really don't see where she is "hiding behind her gender." In fact, I don't know many adults that would solve anything by going "out behind the stadium." Really? People still do that? Adults do that? Most people I know stopped doing that in, mmm, about 8th grade. Perhaps someone ought to go through MS Carlson's entire career... Except for the minor detail that in 20 minutes no one will gave a poo about Ms. Carlson.
posted by SummersEve at 12:23 PM on September 25
I don't think there was that much wrong with the column other than it was poorly written. For example, using his previous quote about his gameday emotions in this context. I'm guessing that quote was made in a relaxed atmosphere such as a media day event, and it was more of light-hearted off-the-cuff comment. Using it directly against him undercuts credibility. Probably would have better served to just say something along the lines of, "He has said in the past he has trouble controlling gameday nerves..." or something. Interesting point made by Slezak. I bet he never called out a male writer for not having any kids.
posted by SummersEve at 10:06 AM on September 25
Somehow I can't take too seriously any conference that has UConn and Buffalo as members Buffalo is in the MAC not the Big East. As for the Big East, they have some good teams but, I think they to add more teams or they're status as a BCS conference should probably be re-visited. In case anyone missed it, UConn beat Pitt this week (one week after they stole one from Temple).
posted by SummersEve at 11:31 AM on September 24
HE CHEATED. He had to. The prosecution rests, your honor.
posted by SummersEve at 09:54 AM on September 21
That's my sandbox. I'm not allowed to go in the deep end.
posted by SummersEve at 09:26 AM on September 21
On line with TBH said, Many NFL coaches sort of bring it on themselves. Many of these guys constantly stonewall reporters on simple questions, or say the same thing over and over, eventually creating a tense relationship. Reporters' questions get more adversarial, and then the answers get more adversarial, and it becomes a downward spiral. I suppose it's a case of "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" but the folks who treat reporters with respect seem to be treated the same, Dungy comes to mind. Same goes for other sports, but the NFL seems to try to control information more than the other sports. Maybe because of the massive popularity. But my point is when something like this happens -- no matter how insignificant it may seem to the New Englanders in the group -- there's a feeding frenzy of reporters.
posted by SummersEve at 12:54 PM on September 19
Joe Carter's '93 home run is missing Good.
posted by SummersEve at 11:44 AM on September 19
10 large? I'd do it for 10 dollars.
posted by SummersEve at 02:36 PM on September 18
I vote we brand Marc Ecko then put him on a rocket ship and send him out to space.
posted by SummersEve at 09:33 AM on September 18
...bonuses for the publicity that comes with success -- including $10,000 for a national championship in football... Does anyone know how that figure compares to the numbers Tressel offers the recruits?
posted by SummersEve at 12:54 PM on September 17
This guy's not the saint we think he his. I hear he's been following the Sox the last couple weeks, and there are rumors he had a camera often aimed in the dugout.
posted by SummersEve at 11:07 AM on September 17
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