October 15, 2007

Even if we collapse in the final and lose 36-0 again it'll be an improvement on what was expected as the team limped into the tournament.

The Aussies seemed to think they'd beat England by just putting their jerseys on and if France had played anything like they did against the Kiwis, they would have sent us home too as we were simply horrible. The lineouts and, shockingly for England, the kicking were just terrible and yet, there we are in the final.

I can't believe the South Africans will choke the way the French did, but if we can move their pack, something Argentina managed, then who knows.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 9:04 AM CDT on October 15

I watched both semis here in beautiful downtown Apia. The Samoan view, with which I concur, is that they can't believe how bad the final four teams were, and the poor quality of play in both games.

England-France looked like a throwback to the amateur days of the 70s. The mistakes in the Sth Africa-Argentina game made it look like an average club game. In fact, the whole tournament has not exactly been a ringing endorsement of attractive rugby. But I guess this only proves that the current rules and interpretations mean winning ugly. None of the more skilful players seem to have had the opportunity to display their talents. Before anyone says it - this applies to Australia and NZ as well as the semi finalists.

If this is the game they play in heaven, I prefer to be with the devil, football and even rugby league. And the best tunes.

posted by owlhouse at 3:29 PM CDT on October 15

I don't think so owlhouse, because that is still rugby, just a different style of rugby.

That being said I really, really don't want England to win. But I don't want SA to win either. So it is a lose-lose situation. I'm guessing once the match starts I'll cheer for SA.

It seems to me though that no team has really gone out and won a big match, instead their opposition have lost games through mistakes. Scotland could have won against Argentina if they'd had a bit of belief earlier. New Zealand made plenty of mistakes in their game, and blaming the ref is just taking the loss badly (though it was a forward pass).

Course I read articles like this on on The Roar which has lines like "there are some damning statistics about a spike in women requiring refuge on Sunday October the seventh" and it makes me glad that we don't take our rugby that seriously.

posted by Fence at 3:32 AM CDT on October 16

I'm surprised by the level of negativity. I've found this World Cup easily the best tournament in the competition's twenty year history from a spectator's point of view. I think it threatened to be the World Cup where the physically biggest, most professional, best prepared team won at a canter, but really it has served to highlight the importance of other facets of the game.

You can be as big as you like, but without the ball, you can't play. You can score as many beautiful tries as you like, but if, when it comes right down to it, you're too stupid to have a go for a drop goal in the last ten minutes because you thought you'd inevitably "score a try", then you deserve to go out in the quarter finals.

There have been plenty of mistakes, but anyone who remembers any game of rugby - even the greatest ever played - without mistakes is a fool to themselves and making stuff up. It's a game of mistakes and of imperfection. It's a game of spoiling. It's a game of cheating and who can get away with it. And all of that is what makes the moments of brilliance shine.

This is widely considered the greatest try ever; even though the final pass was forward, it still gives me shivers to see it (and hear the commentator).

More important than the mistakes (or possibly because of them), it has been a world cup filled with tension and excitement, much of which has been thanks to England. Despite being Irish and being strictly raised to support ABE (Anyone But England), I cheered for them four years ago, and despite having been born in South Africa, I'll do it again this time, with even more gusto, because this time, they're underdogs.

We shall see what Saturday brings. It would have to be a hell of a game to rival the tension of four years ago, but if they're still in it with 20 minutes to go, I think the English will win it, having forged a bond in adversity that South Africa haven't had to.

posted by JJ at 5:34 AM CDT on October 16

.... while the Japanese - inexplicably denied the host's role - probably have stadiums coming out of their ears!

No doubt you've seen this, Owlhouse, but just in case you haven't!

posted by JJ at 4:09 AM CDT on October 17

My favourite so far:

What's the difference between the All Blacks and an arsonist?

An arsonist would never lose his last match.

owlhouse - I suspect it's justyou and me left at the bottom of this particular ruck, so I'll risk a guidline breach and use this as a personal message board - I know you cut about the south pacific a lot, although I'm not sure you ever go as far west as Singapore, but I thought I ought to flag up that I'll be there from 27th Oct to 1st November. I'm speaking at a conference and so on, but should have some down time on the off chance that you're in the vicinity.

I'm going to hit the sevens tournament they have on there on Sunday the 28th at the SCC. If by some quirk of fate you're in the vicinity, we should meet up and cry into our respective pints about the fact that England won the World Cup again (or the boks - it's a no win final for an Irishman and an Aussie really, even ones with South African and English heritage).

posted by JJ at 7:01 AM CDT on October 18

Shame, but glad I asked. Will probably do another SE Asia tour (this time of Jakarta, Singapore, KL, Bangkok, Hanoi, Phenom Peng and Shanghai) sometime early in the new year to try and sell the study I'm researching on this trip, so I'll keep you posted.

posted by JJ at 4:04 PM CDT on October 18

I'll just stand over here real quiet

You and Shaun Perry.

I'm still reading too, but I try to never get anywhere near rucks. So I'll return you to the JJ and Owl love-in.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 5:16 PM CDT on October 18