Last of the legends? No one left? WTF? Chico produced an elegant and well mannered response that relied on facts, evidence and reasoned argument - so can I run with some abuse? I've been watching tennis for more than twenty years (since my mother sat me down and explained what it was that made Mac so special) and I can't ever remember being as excited by (the talent and charisma in) it as I am these days. Commander Cody - there really is no one left? You pull this shit in the golf threads too - "Well, Tiger sure seems like a decent player, but it's just not the same without big Jack and Arnie battling it out." [I'm paraphrasing] - come on, man! The game isn't getting old, you are (and I am, and we all are). You don't miss Jack, or Arnie, or Samprass, or Agassi - you miss being 25. And Bat - "ticking along like a Swiss watch"? Which Federer are you watching? I take your broader point about Agassi being appealing because he displayed the insecurities of normal people and then overcame them like a god, but I think you're being a bit unfair to that big floppy-haired genius from the land of the cuckoo-clock. Agassi for me was a pint of Guinness - what I grew up with and a safe bet to entertain me every time, and when he was good, he made me shout and scream with raucous pleasure. Federer is vintage champagne - I've never tasted anything like it, I don't know enough about it to ever fully appreciate just how good he is, and when he's good, he makes me purr and curl my toes up with delight.
(On edit: I almost deleted this when I saw what JJ wrote, because he summed it up so well, but I'll leave it.) Echo what Somethingotherthan and Chico say. To compare Federer to Carson Palmer is silly. I get the point you're trying to make, but Federer has won 40 singles titles, and 8 grand slam singles titles. He's 25, pro since '98. Agassi won 60 singles titles, 8 grand slam singles titles in his career. Federer hasn't won the French Open yet, but that's largely due to Rafael Nadal who's ridiculous on clay. Don't get me wrong, Agassi was the first tennis player I really, really pulled for. Like many American 30-somethings, I play tennis now largely because of him. My goal most definitely is not to belittle him at all. I'm sad to see him go. I love the guy, but to say he's the end of tennis is, again, kind of silly. If you say he might be the end of American men's tennis, I'll listen. But like somethingotherthan said, there is a ton of talent out there, and like Chico said, there's a ton of personality out there. They happen to have accents and wear capris, but I bet if you watch them, you'll like them.
I agree with much that has been said here as a tribute to Andre. He surely will be missed. Even when he lost in big matches (to Fed last year in the Open Final and many, many times to Pete over the years), it was always only by a razor thin margin, and was always in an entertaining way. Despite the fact that he underachieved in the first act of his career, it makes what he achieved in the second act all the more impressive. In fact, few champions can ever match the kind of stretch he had in 1999-2000; winning at Roland Garros, the US Open and the Australian, and making it to the finals at Wimbledon. I'm not a big fan of Federer, despite his gargantuan talent, he seems a bit colorless to me (I didn't like Borg much as a kid for the same reasons, YMMV). But I think Nadal, Baghdatis and others have piles of charisma and they're continuing to improve their games, and tennis is interesting again. Just 2-3 years ago, it was frankly a bit dull. Overall, I think Andre leaves the game in very good hands.
After reading what lil_brown_bat had to say, he totally brought up a great point. Andre Agassi went from rebel to legend in front of our eyes and the few that appreciated his game, know that regardless if he won or loss, we were witnessing a giant in the sport of tennis. U'll be missed Andre
JJ: And Bat - "ticking along like a Swiss watch"? Which Federer are you watching? The one who almost never fails, like a Swiss watch. Which one are you watching? I didn't think my point was that obscure. Chacun a son gout. And you didn't hear me saying there was "no one left" or that it was the "end of tennis". Becker himself could be an interesting part of the next wave: an NCAA product (odd coincidence, I found out last night that someone I know coached him at Baylor) and a lot more than another big kid with a big serve. If he can find the lines the way he did yesterday, I think he's going to give Roddick fits. We'll find out in a couple of hours.
I hope we don't have to wait for the Graf/Agassi brood to mature before another American talent rises to the top of the ranks in tennis, or I predict the same fate that open wheeled racing has had, with only a core group of fans (albeit loyal and knowledgable) that really care about the sport here in the states. Agassi, Sampras, Courier, Connors, Mac, et al gave Joe Six-Pack a reason to cheer, and it seems to me that interest has been on the wane in recent years, directly as a result of Americans not being as prominent in the sport. Just an opinion.... I thoroughly enjoyed Andre's career, if, "image is everything", then he is good hands.
I think that was meant to read "in good hands." Three day weekends have a way of fouling my cognitive processes...
I hope we don't have to wait for the Graf/Agassi brood to mature before another American talent rises to the top of the ranks in tennis All it would take to dispel this worry would be one day's worth of watching this year's Open. Agassi, Sampras, Courier, Connors, Mac, et al gave Joe Six-Pack a reason to cheer, and it seems to me that interest has been on the wane in recent years, directly as a result of Americans not being as prominent in the sport. Just an opinion.... Maybe. I don't think that tennis ever really had a place in popular sports fandom in the US, though. Tennis culture found a place in popular culture for a while there, sort of like ski culture (or more apres-ski culture) was also popular for a while, but that was more a matter of accoutrements and a little casual club play than really following the sport as a serious fan. My gut feeling says that Joe Sixpack has never been and never will be a tennis fan of any degree, unless you consider letting some drool escape at the sight of a blonde woman in a tennis dress being a fan. I think that the rest of us, despite some of what's been said in this thread, really don't much care where they come from. There are so many foreign-born kids who learned their chops in the states; many have lived and trained here for years, and make their homes here. In Grand Slam tournaments, the US players don't train or compete as a team, no more than any other nation. I really don't think that nationality is that much of a draw.
interest has been on the wane in recent years, directly as a result of Americans not being as prominent in the sport Honestly, I go to the still sparkling new USNTC facitily every Aug/Sep and attend a handful of Grand Prix events (Indian Wells, Pilot Pen) throughout the year, and it seems that there is no shortage of interest in the sport in this country (neither is there shortage of cash available), even if Americans don't reign supreme at the moment.. I can vaguely remember around 1990 there was significant chatter about the death of tennis in the US. At that point, Agassi had won a few tour events, but was still sputtering at the Grand Slam level, Chang had won the French but that seemed to be a fluke, and no one had yet heard of Jim Courier. Along comes a 19 year old kid - still relatively unknown at the time - who blitzed Lendl, Johnny Mac and Andre on the way to capturing his first US Open. The beauty of tennis is that since players hit their physical peak so early, the next big American breakout pheenom is always just around the corner.
You don't miss Jack, or Arnie, or Samprass, or Agassi - you miss being 25. Actually I miss Ilie Nastase most in tennis, but sure I miss being 25 to some extent too. And why not? Most people end up thinking that things are not and never will be as good as they were when they were younger. That's why the phrase "Youth is wasted on the young" is so true. Besides I stick by it. Tennis does not have anywhere near as colorful of characters today as it did in the 60's and 70's and neither does golf. They just don't. Which is why it's less interesting to me. In many ways I could care less about scores and such. To me it's the human element that makes sports interesting.
I think that the rest of us, despite some of what's been said in this thread, really don't much care where they come from. Yep. It's always been that way. The chattering classes in the USA/NBC broadcast booth (both McEnroes, Bud Collins, etc) have definitely obsessed on this point over the years, but it's been my experience that most serious tennis fans do not give a hoot about the nationality of the player. I was as likely to cheer for Lendl over McEnroe back in the day as I was for Courier over Becker, and most of my fellow fans are the same. The only homers in the sport are really the ones in the broadcast booth (and on the Davis Cup team). As much as I pull for Andy Roddick to come around, it's because I think he's got great potential and a good personality. But honestly, am I really going to follow mediocre pros like Mardy Fish, Vince Spadea or Taylor Dent simply because of where they happened to be born? Doubtful.
It should be said that while Mardy Fish, Vince Spadea and Taylor Dent are mediocre by world class standards, they are all very talented and committed athletes. Just making a point.
Federer can keep ticking along like a Swiss watch for the next ten years, and he won't have the crowd the way Agassi did. Well put l_b_b. Watching him is like watching a clock tick. Interesting in that it never misses a beat, but dull in the long run. I think it's cool the way factories put together an assembly line that seems to magically produce the same thing over and over, but that doesn't mean I want to watch an assembly line on a Sunday afternoon.
I love watching Federer dominate an opponent. I like to cheer, "Wipe the floor with him! Smash him! Destroy him!" And, then he does it.
Becker - Roddick, 3-3 in the first set, and this match has not gone on long enough for the idjits in the CBS booth to stop saying stupid stuff about Benjamin/Boris Becker and about how Becker will really get run out of town if he somehow manages to win this match. Sheesh.
I don't think that tennis ever really had a place in popular sports fandom in the US, though. A very true comment. Tennis is a niche sport here, with the stigma of being a pastime of rich white people retiring at the country club. Meanwhile, its the second most popular sport in a lot of other countries on the globe, following footy/soccer. That's why I've always been amused at the sportswriters who turn to tennis merely to write an article about how the decline of the American generation of tennis dominence means the end of the sport. It's lazy writing and it's lazy logic. Interesting in that it never misses a beat, but dull in the long run. While I believe dominance can be incredibly boring, Federer himself and his play on any given day is never dull. People won't realize what they've missed until he's gone.
While I believe dominance can be incredibly boring, Federer himself and his play on any given day is never dull. People won't realize what they've missed until he's gone. For whatever reason, I'm starting to appreciate his game more as a result of coming to appreciate Amelie Mauresmo's. Anyone just see that match vs. Serena Williams? The second set was better forgotten, but that first set...damn, was that a gem or what?
