What bperk said. YYM are you just sore that we're not discussing your Pistons? Let us Lebron lovers have one more hurrah and then will talk pistons the rest of the summer.
No doubt LeBron has better game than Mike at this point in his career. But, let's talk about the level of competition they both faced. Mike stopped alot of Hall of Fame players from getting a Championship Ring. Such as Karl Malone, John Stockton, Dominque Wilkins, Patrick Ewing and if he wouldn't had retired the first time you probably could add Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler And Charles Barkley, Sean Kemp, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Penny Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning. And to your second list you can add David Robinson. He truly screwed many would be champions. I never said he was the next Michael Jordan, but the circumstances during his early career have been distinctly similar to MJ's early career. No they're not. LeBron's got a great center (if they would ever throw into the post), a very good two guard and some decent role players in Gooden, that floppy haired Brazilian guy and Flip Murray. Check out the 1984 Bulls roster, all he had were ball-hog drug addicts (Orlando Wooldridge, Quintin Daley) and washouts (Dave Corzine, Jawann Oldham). 1984 Jordan with the current Cavs squad (minus LeBron, of course) and the current no touch rules would have challenged for a title. LeBron is great, but he's got a lot to prove to be considered in the same league as Jordan.
Oops I meant to link to the 1984 bulls roster. What the hell happened to Reggie Theus that year?
Bperk hit the nail on the head. Lebron got shut down because he was double and triple teamed the entire second half. And we're not talking about help defense - the Pistons were leaving guys wide open and when Lebron's passes would hit them in the hands they would either freeze up and pass on the shot, throw up a brick, or else commit a turnover. And though I agree there is no comparing Lebron to Jordan at this stage in his career (particularly because MJ was not in the league at that age), lets think for a moment where MJ would be if he didn't have role players like BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, or John Paxton - let alone big men like Ho Grant or Bill Cartwright (say what you will) - not to mention all stars like Scotty or Dennis Rodman. That said, the Pistons clearly exemplify the team concept like few, if any, in history. And sic - I'm going to ignore your comments about Jordan taking the current Cavs team to a title due to the fact that they are woefully misguided.
Actually that should have been the 1985 bulls. Basically the same bunch of guys. MW12, I said they would challenge for a title; care to elaborate on why my comment is misguided? I'm curious.
sic- I'm sure you could poke holes in my arguments left and right (as I know I could) too. But for one thing, reread my first two paragraphs. And for another, if you put MJ's '85 stats up next to Lebron's 2006 stats, you'll find that Lebron had more points, more assists, and more rebounds in fewer games - all the while committing fewer turnovers.
Fair enough. One thing that I think is a mistake, in general, is that most people assume that LeBron is going to get progressively better each year. Why? Not everybody gets noticeably better each year. Some players come into the league very good, or even great, and never get much better (Kenny Anderson, Rod Strickland). Some get worse (Christian Laetner) and many get injured (Danny Manning, Larry Johnson). I admit I do believe LeBron will get a lot better, but nothing's a lock.
I agree. I would never be so bold as to suggest that Lebron is going to win even a single championship - not just because we can't predict what will happen to him but also because we can't predict what will happen with his teammates, his coaches, etc. But his talent is nonetheless awe-inspiring. And not just for his age. He is truly a larger than life figure both on and off the court. And as bperk said above, he is exactly what the NBA needs. I'm just waiting for the day that his real birth certificate surfaces and we find out he's really 25 - that he was enrolled at St Vincent St Mary's as a freshmen at the tender age of 18. Oh, and he must be taking the cream and the clear...
All the Jordan comparisons - it is also kind of spooky that Vince Carter (a onetime "next Jordan") came into the league and in his third year he took his team through to the second round and lost in seven games and then.... I guess similiarity is where you look for it.
Vince Carter can't even carry LeBron's shoes in terms of talent. Carter has talent but LeBron has something altogether different. He's a generational-type player, one that comes along every decade or so. What everybody needs to remember is that this is the age that Jordan came out of college, so LeBron has a huge head start on his Airness in terms of experience at the NBA level. Whether or not LeBron will capitalize on this only time well tell. I like his chances at this point but as many of you have said, the chance for a flameout is always there. I agree with that. I just think the odds are in LeBron's favor. He plays too unselfishly and is too dominant of a physical force. The big wild card will be what teammates are added to help his cause. Jordan never would've had the team success that he did without the addition of Pippen and Grant in the late 80's. LeBron needs the same kind of additions to make the jump to the next level. We'll see how that goes.
I think LeBron will win at least 1 Ring. His talent is to rare and eventually a owner will come along a put together an incredible team around him, maybe for just a few years. Like Jordan and Koby they are great players but they both had great teams. Owners like to win just as much as the players I cant see some of the ring thirsty owners letting his hand sit naked to long!
As far as LeBron being the next MJ that is very far fetched. We will never see another MJ in our lifetimes. Need I remind everyone about a person called Kobe who was supposed to be better than MJ but we see were that went, and he had the same coach and several hall of fame players with him. MJ changed the face of basketball. LeBron is just following in his shoes. He was shut down in the second half and only had 6 points. Granted MJ had the same thing happen to him courtesy of Detroit, but he learned how to be a complete player and beat you in other ways. LeBron is far from that and far from ever being that the team looks to him to much and he just wants to take every shot he can and complain when it doesn't go his way. He reminds me more of Kobe and not Michael. When all is said and done he will have been a good player, but not the greatest. The greatest beat all the hall of famers and top 50 players of all time( Magic, Bird, Isiah, Drexler, Ewing, Shaq, Kobe, Dominique, and so on). The only true hall of famers that LeBron has even played that could even begin to compete with the 50 greatest are Shaq and Kobe. Let us step back and review who we are comparing LeBron to, the greatest ever MJ.
Granted MJ had the same thing happen to him courtesy of Detroit, but he learned how to be a complete player and beat you in other ways. LeBron is far from that and far from ever being that the team looks to him to much and he just wants to take every shot he can and complain when it doesn't go his way. If LeBron James wants to take every shot he can get than how does that explain his triple doubles in the playoffs and his career 6.6 assists per game average? James is an amazing player while the supporting cast around him is not. Why should he be passing the ball to players who cannot make shots on an consistant basis? He has shown that he can dominate a game by attacking the basket and making his shots. Him passing the ball only to end up in another missed shot isn't going to get the Cavs anywhere.
Grant Hill, Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Lebron James next will be Greg Oden, how many Jordan wannabe's are in the league now, I've lost track and don't mean to offend any that have been left out.
Hey I know this whole discussion is about Lebron and all but I personally think the highlight of the series was Damon Jones getting punched in the mouth by Anderson Varejo during their celebration of their win in Game 5 I'm sorry but thats plain hilarious
Can't argue that LeBron is a superlative player who will only get better with more years of experience. Experience is the key to both LeBron and the Cav's future success. Look what experience it did for Kobe Bryant. Although he'll never be as good, but with practice, its possible that LeBron will play in the same league as Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant.
Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in the same sentence? I doooooooon't think so!!!!!
Hey I know this whole discussion is about Lebron and all but I personally think the highlight of the series was Damon Jones getting punched in the mouth by Anderson Varejo during their celebration of their win in Game 5 I'm sorry but thats plain hilarious I saw that on the highlights on ESPN. I had to rewind it and slo mo to get a good look. That was funny stuff. Celebrating can be dangerous.
Ah, I think it's a pretty natural to compare players - it's just that the comparison is a little difficult right now. Besides, I don't think Lebron plays at all like Jordan. He's more Magic-like. (A lot of you guys don't remember watching Magic in his hey-day. I do. I was 8.) It seems clear to me that Lebron has wayyyyy more phyiscal gifts than Jordan ever had. Bigger, stronger, maybe even faster. And he has had the benefit of basically being in "basketball school" since 8th grade. Jordan didn't make his high school team as a sophmore. There are just too many contrasting points right now to warrant a confident examination. My own expectation is that each will carve out their own chunk of NBA history when it's all said and done. I think that's where we're going to be lucky - we won't have to choose between the two, because they will each soundly define their own eras in such a fashion as to render these kind of discussions just frivolous fun.
its possible that LeBron will play in the same league as Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. I will bet you everything i own that one day that does indeed happen.
Weedy, great point. My friend and I were saying the same thing the other night. I was in my teens during Magic's heyday and I agree with you, LeBron is more similar to him than Jordan. LeBron is a better scorer than Magic ever was, although Magic was the better passer.
