May 1, 2006

Mirabelli traded back to Red Sox. : Will catch Wakefield tonight against the Yankees.

read story | posted by jerseygirl to Baseball at 11:01 AM CDT (37 comments total)

Obviously, I'm glad for the team and for Wakefield, but Bard needed to get out of there.

Bard was on pace for 60 passed balls this year.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:05 AM CDT on May 1

What's interesting to me is the yankees trying to get mirabelli just to keep him from the red sox.

The sox and yankees are fighting over a lifetime 240 hitter. Catching the kuckleball = job security.

posted by justgary at 11:12 AM CDT on May 1

I agree it grants Mirabelli some security, but the Red Sox need to plan ahead and do something with Corky Miller in Pawtucket to make sure he can also catch Wakefield. Miller has caught Jared Fernandez throughout their minor league careers and Boston acquired him in the minors in the last couple weeks. My thought on Friday was that Miller would replace Bard. I did not envision Boston getting Mirabelli this fast.

You don't want Wakefield's livelihood to be solely based on Mirabelli and you don't want to go into future salary negotiations with Mirabelli facing the barrel of a gun.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:17 AM CDT on May 1

Ah shit. This was a good move by the Sox. Wakefield's been such a better pitcher with Mirabelli. I actually find it a little shocking that Varitek never got comfortable with Wakefield - considering he's the best at absolutely everything else.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:20 AM CDT on May 1

Not absolutely sure of the timeline here, but didn't the fools lose him while Wunderkind Theo was away? Looks like he's back to work.
Newman! I mean, Theo!

posted by hb74147 at 12:18 PM CDT on May 1

I actually find it a little shocking that Varitek never got comfortable with Wakefield

It gives him an off day from behind the plate every 5 days, so i doubt they'd let him catch wakefield anyways.

posted by justgary at 12:24 PM CDT on May 1

i guess he didn't have much value for the padres, but it surprises me how little they got back for him, considering the value he has for the sox. that's some bad management down there by the border.

posted by ninjavshippo at 12:38 PM CDT on May 1

Didn't they also use a different 2nd baseman when Wakefield pitched?

posted by HATER 187 at 12:39 PM CDT on May 1

Other Red Sox transactions that were somehow overlooked as FPP-worthy:

4/20: Purchased the contract of INF/OF Willie Harris from Triple-A Pawtucket; Optioned OF Adam Stern to Pawtucket.

4/22: Optioned RHP Jermaine Van Buren to Triple-A Pawtucket and recalled RHP Manny Delcarmen from Triple-A Pawtucket.

Looking forward to update posts on developing situation regarding Dustan Mohr's playing time.

posted by BullpenPro at 12:40 PM CDT on May 1

Varitek caught Wake in the postseason a few times in the last couple years and it wasn't much of an improvement over Bard.

Loretta/Mirabelli trade was early December. So it wasn't on Theo's watch... technically.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:41 PM CDT on May 1

Don't be a thread pisser onner, BullpenPro.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:44 PM CDT on May 1

It basically amounts to Bard, Cla Meredith, and cash for Loretta. Mirabelli's more valuable for the Red Sox than any other team, so it's acceptable. Not crazy about losing Meredith, but I knew that Loretta-for-Mirabelli straight up was too good to be true, this is at least an acceptable deal for the Padres rather than a straight-out steal.

posted by uglatto at 12:45 PM CDT on May 1

This is great news for my fantasy team, because Wakefield has been killing me! I'm still not starting him tonight, though. I want to let them work the rust off first.

posted by wingnut4life at 1:06 PM CDT on May 1

uglatto, that makes me feel a bit better about losing Meredith. Bard wasn't going to make my roto team, but I don't know it was worth losing a decent bullpen prospect just because you don't want to watch Bard's learning curve with the knuckler.

posted by yerfatma at 1:18 PM CDT on May 1

Don't be a thread pisser onner, BullpenPro.

well, he does have a point. FPP for trading to return your backup catcher, for your #3 starter?

posted by ninjavshippo at 1:22 PM CDT on May 1

Back to your "Sexual-Assault-by-an-Athlete FPPs O' The Day" and your scheduled "OMG KOBE IS SO AWESUM!!!!11!!!" threads then.

edit: fuck it, Pantheon do me a favor and delete this thread. I'm not wasting my time defending it and I'll just discuss it elsewhere.

posted by jerseygirl at 1:44 PM CDT on May 1

FPP is worthwhile in my opinion (not that it means much) because: (1) a player going from Team A to Team B back to Team A within a span of four or five months is pretty rare; (2) this brings the Loretta deal into somewhat sharper focus (I personally don't think Meredith is too big of a loss for the Sox); (3) this is the perfect under-the-radar thread for the inevitable 200 post Yankees-Red Sox banter for their first game of the season (which, in typical overkill fashion, will surely overtake the NFL draft for the lead story on ESPN.com and other sporting sites in the next 2 hours); and (4) have you seen what passes for a front page post lately? Back in the olden days, there was a much higher signal to noise ratio and this kind of thing was just fine. Just because there is now a greater amount of noise doesn't mean that something like this isn't warranted. And point 3 is sarcastic, but the others stand.

posted by holden at 1:58 PM CDT on May 1

Back to your "Sexual-Assault-by-an-Athlete FPPs O' The Day" and your scheduled "OMG KOBE IS SO AWESUM!!!!11!!!" threads then.

No, thats okay.

posted by lilnemo at 2:00 PM CDT on May 1

Oh come on, it's not like the front page is overcrowded by 20 threads a day. There hasn't been a Sox-Yankees thread all year IIRC, and with the series starting tonight this is as good a topic as any to link to.

Stop being such fucking snobs. The idiotic Houston post, you can mock. Posts that actually talk about sports? They're getting fewer and farther between now that this site has expanded to include the general population. There are far better things to complain about.

posted by Bernreuther at 2:04 PM CDT on May 1

Also, this ties in to a much-beloved SportsFilter subject: the knuckleballer.

posted by qbert72 at 2:16 PM CDT on May 1

There hasn't been a Sox-Yankees thread all year IIRC, and with the series starting tonight this is as good a topic as any to link to.

This wasn't posted as a yanks/sox thread, even if you think that's what it has/should become. In fairness, I probably would have lodged some sort of short complaint about the mind-numbing hegemony of sox/yanks anyway.

That said no one's being a "fucking snob." There have been 9 bosox threads through 18 weeks this year, which amounts to one every other week. I think everyone agrees that silly posts like the Houston one deserve what they get, but as far as I'm concerned, seniority on a message board doesn't insulate you from an open-ended, constructive criticism such as "should this be FPP?"

I don't think anyone on this thread has been disrespectful. maybe a cold hard glass of "lighten up" would make this all better.

on preview: well that's true. who doesn't love a knuckleballer? besides varitek and bard, that is...

posted by ninjavshippo at 2:19 PM CDT on May 1

It was an okay, if not growing and civil discussion (by the way, one you deemed worthy/relevant enough to contribute to somewhat thoughtfully earlier, ninjavshippo) before BPP made a comment.

I never threw around "seniority" - not once - so you're painting something that wasn't even there. Don't do that.

Yeah, he's the backup catcher. But he's been traded, and then reacquired in the span of 5 months, with a quickness, for tonight's matchup for the Yankees game because the current catcher has had a remarkably hard time catching the knuckler... and on top of that, the story points out that the Yankees tried to sneak in and trade for Mirabelli to prevent Boston from doing so. I was trying to swing it towards some stats with Bards and passed balls, and then some thoughts on player development in regards to the future if Wakefield is going to continue pitching with/without Mirabelli.

You make it sound like I posted an "Johnny Damon's coming back to Boston. Boo him or cheer him?!" FPP.

posted by jerseygirl at 2:33 PM CDT on May 1

It was an okay, if not growing and civil discussion (by the way, one you deemed worthy/relevant enough to contribute to somewhat thoughtfully earlier, ninjavshippo) before BPP made a comment.

Oh Snap.
*guzzles water*

posted by lilnemo at 2:50 PM CDT on May 1

I wasn't referring to you jg, I was referring to bernreuther's post which I thought was policing which threads could and couldn't be mocked. He was the one who referred to the quality of the site going down since the inclusion of the "general population." That's where I based my seniority remark.

There have been plenty of "civil and growing" discussions around here that have been canned because of a dumb FPP launchpad. I know because I've posted in them, assuming that they would probably get deleted anyway. I don't like the Padres, so any marginal move that harms them (which I feel this does) I'll gladly throw my 2c in about. I don't think that amounts to estoppel for me to question a thread's FPPnessiness.

In conclusion, save your emboldened italics for the visually challenged and your rage for the machine and the yankees.

edit: and there are worse things in life than being cast as BullpenPro's sidekick.

posted by ninjavshippo at 2:52 PM CDT on May 1

Yep, that's me. Thread wrecker. Just spitting on civility.

I can't tell you how many times I have read in the locker room that rule #1 on posting is that the post is the important thing. I have been instructed time and again to post good journalism -- NOT fluff pieces just to bring up a topic I want to talk about. As a result, I have declined to post on a number of subjects upon which I would have LOVED to discourse, including A.J. Burnett's injury, Derrek Lee's injury, Papelbon becoming the closer, etc., because the stories about them weren't that interesting themselves, they were just vehicles to a discussion I wanted to have. So, you'll have to forgive me if I get all heated up when the leader of the task force against bad posters puts up a seven sentence ESPN article so we can talk about the retreaded, .182-hitting backup catcher for the Red Sox.

There are a lot of smart and thoughtful people on this sight, including JG, and I enjoy reading their observations on stuff like this. I'm happy to see more threads like this, but some people seem to get dunned for these posts while others skate. Not fair. Plus... confusing...

Look, I'm willing to abide by whatever conventions this place wants to adopt. But I am not that smart -- I thought they were spelled out for me, but I guess I was wrong. To me, this post is a hair's-breadth above posting back to SportsFilter with a comment like "Mirabelli's back with the Sox -- how stupid was it to let him go in the first place, huh?" But I am open to the possibility that this perception of mine is totally wrong. If so, I will set this as the meterstick by which to measure the worthiness of future FPPs, and proceed from there.

Sincerely,
Blind Squirrel

On preview: and there are worse things in life than being cast as BullpenPro's sidekick

Like being BullpenPro, apparently.

posted by BullpenPro at 3:15 PM CDT on May 1

gary/rcade, just please delete this when you can and end it, already.

JG, out!

posted by jerseygirl at 3:17 PM CDT on May 1

Bard leads the league in past balls (10). The next in line?

Ramon Hernandez and Kenji Johjima with 4.

Apparently the thought of catching Wakefield every 5 days ~~made Flaherty piss his pants~~ contributed to Flaherty retiring .

I love the Uecker quote that accompanies the Times graphic:
"The way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until it stops rolling and then pick it up."

posted by lilnemo at 3:18 PM CDT on May 1

Flutterballs can make grown men tremble. I'm sure Bard couldn't stop smiling when they told him he'd been traded.

And Boston needs to get someone else working on catching the knuckle or Mirabelli can choose his orifice to pleasure himself with come contract time.

posted by fenriq at 3:26 PM CDT on May 1

...I have declined to post on a number of subjects upon which I would have LOVED to discourse, including A.J. Burnett's injury, Derrek Lee's injury, Papelbon becoming the closer, etc., because the stories about them weren't that interesting themselves, they were just vehicles to a discussion I wanted to have.

If their is a good link to push those stories forward, by all means, post! If you can find an article/analysis/projection for what Burnett/Lee's injury mean to their teams outside of, our replacement is going to suck, then be my guest! And as for Papelbon, you just missed this great thread back in March. Questioning the validity of an FPP while admitting you're not sure what qualifies for a good FPP...

*checks Roberts Rules of Order*
*gives up*

...kinda sucks.

I understand the logic:
FPP for trading to return your backup catcher, for your #3 starter?
Except how many other backup catchers who catch for # 3 starters are targeted by an opposing team, simply to keep them from catching for a # 3 starter?

Which reminds me of the Jose Mesa suspension. Posting about a player suspended for plunking a batter? Who cares right? Posting about a pitcher suspended for plunking a batter who wrote that said pitcher is a choke artist? Priceless.

I think we can all be grown-ups now and say that this thread makes the grade.

posted by lilnemo at 3:42 PM CDT on May 1

FPP for trading to return your backup catcher, for your #3 starter?

But that isn't the story here. Nor is it the same as some random roster move.

The sox trade wakefield's catcher, thinking it's not going to be a problem. New catcher is on pace to set a record with passed balls. Red Sox will play yankees tonight, basically tied for first place. They trade to get old catcher back, and yankees try to block the deal. It's interesting on many levels.

I understand what you're saying bullpenpro, but it's a slippery slope. And I also think the examples you gave could have all been fine fpp if done correctly. JG linked to espn, but with such a quick breaking story, there wasn't a whole lot out there.

If someone doesn't think the thread belongs then it would be better to ignore it or email one of the admins.

posted by justgary at 4:01 PM CDT on May 1

Wow, am I glad I missed this.

posted by chicobangs at 4:08 PM CDT on May 1

Questioning the validity of an FPP while admitting you're not sure what qualifies for a good FPP...

*checks Roberts Rules of Order*
*gives up*

...kinda sucks.

Okay, I hear you. On the first part, I think it is fair to investigate the overall threshhold of good FPPs by calling into question those that don't appear, from what I've been told, to make the grade. The response helps assess the true value of the post. As for the second part, it's possible that if more people erred on the side of not posting when they were on the fence about the worthiness of a FPP, there might be more overall happiness with the state of this site. Maybe not. Hard to say. That was my judgment, and I stand by it. (For the record, my Papelbon had a different angle than the pre-season article in yerfatma's thread, but you're right, I did miss that. Bummer.)

I think we can all be grown-ups now and say that this thread makes the grade.

As ninjavshippo observed, things have been respectful here. And as I clearly stated in my last message, I'm willing to be shown where I'm wrong. Judging from the fact that one respected member did the posting and a second is rushing to defense leads me to believe I was off-base. If I behaved less than grown-up in my objection, I apologize.

Wow, am I glad I missed this.

I think everyone wishes I had. Including me. Sorry for the junk.

posted by BullpenPro at 4:13 PM CDT on May 1

Gettin' tired a' all this crazy jibba jabba!

posted by The_Black_Hand at 12:08 PM CDT on May 2

Doug Mirabelli, Knuckleball Savior, from the Sons Of Sam Horn MB

Link

posted by hb74147 at 4:25 PM CDT on May 2

Mirabelli is O-V-E-R-A-T-E-D thats why he sucked when given the chance to start. A good fielder, and a marginal hitter, but not everyday starter material.

posted by redsoxrgay at 1:58 PM CDT on May 3

So you think the Sox should just use him as a backup?

posted by yerfatma at 3:13 PM CDT on May 3

Oh, the ~~humanity~~ stupidity.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 5:19 PM CDT on May 4

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