wingnut: "Dude, you need to lighten up." Homie, I'm helium. rcade: You'll find that type of jock humor going back even longer than 20 years. What you don't find are most reporters considering it newsworthy. chicobangs: Well commented. Maybe you're not missing something, but just have a different viewpoint than I do. But we truly don't know the feelings of the men involved do we? We do know those environments are very condusive to "playing with the joke" or being considered a hard-ass or unfriendly. We also don't know if the team has a gay player who was offended, because, of course, he is not going to talk about that for fear of retribution. So he, or others offended, have to "grin and bear it." As an organization the Jays are one of the few teams to market to Gays. It's too bad the players can't be as foward-thinking.
But we truly don't know the feelings of the men involved do we? Not completely, but we do know what the players involved have said to the press, none of which implies mockery, exploitation or any demeaning attitude at all. Which was a very pleasant surprise. And if the less accepting players are going along to get along on the tolerance tip, well, I don't see anything bad about that. Now, if I were to guess, I'd maybe venture that one (or more) of the more popular players may actually be gay, and while it might not be open knowledge, enough people have a clue that on top of pranking Hill and Adams, this was also their way of letting that player know everything was cool. Seriously, ?!. Where's the homophobia in this story? Except for the Star columnist (and I suspect the Sun, who would never get a story like this right in a million years), I just don't see it.
chicobangs:"Seriously, ?!. Where's the homophobia in this story? .... I just don't see it." I guess it's just a matter of two people seeing the same thing, but having different points of view. I see the homophobia in baseball, sports and society. I see it in that story. It's fine if we don't agree. Thanks for keeping the discussion civil and not dismissive.
I agree with your point of view 100%. Baseball and the world in general are imperfect places. I know it is a difficult thing to ask, but I will ask you to remember that baseball is a game made up of individuals. Don't condemn the game itself or question your passion for the game because of the ignorance or bigotry of the masses. There are a number of individuals who feel just as you and are fair-minded. This is right out of your first link, ?!. I am inferring from your dialogue that you read about the Blue Jays story with the "ignorance or bigotry of the masses" in mind, and perhaps made some leaps regarding the motives of these particular players. I think it is fair to call out the ignorance and bigotry that exists generally, but with regard to this particular situation I feel more evidence of insensitivity was required to convict. All-male congregations (fraternities, sports teams, social cliques) can lead to a group-dynamic that tilts toward homophobia, but that doesn't mean every all-male grouping you find has that mentality. As an aside, I was overjoyed to see in that same article a nod to the generosity of Al Leiter, disparaged in a previous thread. Good guy, that Al.
BullpenPro: I hope no one gets the impression that I believe every player to be homophobic. I truly believe that individuals fill the spectrum from enlightened to outright hatred. But, as a sub-group of society baseball has not risen to a level of understanding and acceptance. Gay players haven't had their Jackie Robinson and Pee Wee Reese moment of acceptance. This quote from that article tells the sad story: "If someone wanted to come out, I would say to him: Lie,'' Funnell said. There's still too much homophobia in the sport, especially in the locker room, he adds. " Maybe there are enlightened players in the Jays dugout. But the team treating a gay wedding as a joke doesn't lead me to believe the enlightened players have a voice.
